Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

It would be understandable if he said 'if CES flips town, here are my reads for tomorrow'. Then that would be fine.

IDK how he is fucking flipping so I gave my reads for regardless of how CES flips...

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, this is definitely NOT rocket science. I'm not pulling an Elon Musk here.

[northsidegal]

how is my vote scummy.

you realize that you're suggesting I'm "scummily" moving on to the lynch of one person who would be my buddy if ces flips scum, while at the same time have been hard attacking and trying to suggest the other person you're suggesting as my buddy (dunn) all game.

How does that grouping make ANY sense to you.

Like I do not understand how you could possibly think I'm scum in a world where both ces and dunn are scum.

I understand ran's perspective much better, since a me-gamma-lq team does on its surface make sense.

concisely, i think you are cogito ergo sum's most likely partner whereas my dunnstral read is more individual – that's not to say that my scumread on you would disappear entirely on a ces townflip, however.

[ActionDan]

basically, it was that none of ces' teammates seemed to care about this game despite town doing pretty bad in this game, both in general and as compared to how town did early in the games now completed. i also think fenchurch's reads that he gave (in 3235) seem pretty likely to be faked (and i'm trying to be objective here and not just say this given my pre-existing read here). they're really just a reflection of cogito ergo sum's own reads and while that on its own isn't necessarily a reason for them to be faked, i find it hard to believe that those people are the only ones that fen feels she could say something original about.

I was very surprised that it specifically didn't include a Dunnstral read. that ISO is short and clearly not a focus of CES's so a supplemental voice there would have been logical.

In any case. I will probably go to sleep now which will leave ~2 hours between when and I wake up and deadline, so that should be enough time unless some somebody spoils the wagon by unvoting or similar.

Maybe I'll nap and wake up in a couple hours.

[northsidegal]

meanwhile, I'm over here being counter wagoned. I don't understand why you're just ignoring all available evidence.

do you think this wagon on you clears you from being partnered with him?

[Ranmaru]

ok so even if you believe that which, heaven help you I guess...how the fuck does not including him on the list at all imply he has any knowledge of ces' alignment?

It means he's voting him but lists three scum with him not being there. Like I'm talking about reads for tomorrow, but they include the person I'm voting today, Shea. It at least shows he's not confident on his read on CES while being on him. Note that he town readed him, then voted him, then says he doesn't know how he is flipping. If you can quote any certain towns person doing the same as him, I'd reconsider.

[Thestatusquo]

no, but I think that the confluence of evidence suggests the exact opposite of your read and you're ignoring it.

there are like 2 individual factors here that make me unlikely to be buddies with ces specifically.

the first is that it would require me to be hard bussing on scum buddy while trying to also bus your other scum read.

the second is that I am being counter wagoned, coincidentally but the literal three people I think are scum.

I don't think I'm cleared for those two things, but it seemed to me that you're saying that I'm more likely to be scum with ces than anyone else, and I just think the opposite is true. I think my actions look way worse with a ces town flip than a scum one.

[Thestatusquo]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

[Ranmaru]

CES and you both have tip toed around each other. He's only voting you because this is his last chance for survival.

[Gamma Emerald]

hey @gamma please don't go to sleep or something without hammering.

I made more time. I've got 'til midnight est

[Ranmaru]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

Between you and I, who has tried to influence the game more and why?

[Ranmaru]

hey @gamma please don't go to sleep or something without hammering.

I made more time. I've got 'til midnight est

for what

[Ranmaru]

Lmao @ I made more time. Damn, you can make time? Wish I could do that.

[Thestatusquo]

CES and you both have tip toed around each other. He's only voting you because this is his last chance for survival.

bullfucking shit.

I many times engaged about ces specifically. I talked ces meta and why it led me to a null town read, I even did it with you personally.


then he responded to north and that response was garbage and didn't fit with the town meta I was referencing the whole game, so I changed my mind.

we literally had conversations where I added onto conversations about ces you were having.

this is just straight up fucking false.

[Gamma Emerald]

hey @gamma please don't go to sleep or something without hammering.

I made more time. I've got 'til midnight est

for what

to talk and possibly hammer

[Thestatusquo]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

Between you and I, who has tried to influence the game more and why?

you, because you don't seem to care who is lynched as long as its not your scum buddy over there at l-1 right now.

you have tried to test the waters on almost literally every player in the game today and we ended up with like the literal one you were half hearted about.

I, on the other hand, prefer to vote for who I think is scum, and not call 3 people scum and then the next minute tell them to vote with me on my next sure fire cant miss scum team.

[Gamma Emerald]

I made more time means I did something to work towards having the time to do this, I didn't just end up with it suddenly

[Ranmaru]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

Between you and I, who has tried to influence the game more and why?

you, because you don't seem to care who is lynched as long as its not your scum buddy over there at l-1 right now.

you have tried to test the waters on almost literally every player in the game today and we ended up with like the literal one you were half hearted about.

I, on the other hand, prefer to vote for who I think is scum, and not call 3 people scum and then the next minute tell them to vote with me on my next sure fire cant miss scum team.

You have only tried to influence the game in Day 1. Day 2 and Day 3, nada. Why did you get lazy?

[northsidegal]

no, but I think that the confluence of evidence suggests the exact opposite of your read and you're ignoring it.

there are like 2 individual factors here that make me unlikely to be buddies with ces specifically.

the first is that it would require me to be hard bussing on scum buddy while trying to also bus your other scum read.

"hard bussing"? is all you mean by that your vote here? because nowhere else in the game, if i recall correctly, were you really pushing on cogito ergo sum. to that, i would ask – do you expect scum lynches in white flag to be entirely composed of town? if not, then i'd expect that certainly you can at least understand where i'm coming from and why your vote on cogito ergo sum isn't necessarily very impactful evidence and why i think a review of the game before this stage would hold more weight than looking at this vote here.

the second is that I am being counter wagoned, coincidentally but the literal three people I think are scum.

I don't think I'm cleared for those two things, but it seemed to me that you're saying that I'm more likely to be scum with ces than anyone else, and I just think the opposite is true.

I think my actions look way worse with a ces town flip than a scum one

.

yes, you're being counterwagoned – like i said, i think at face value that this

is

a valid point. my inner confirmation bias wants to just scream "distancing!!!" but i wouldn't be comfortable saying that with any level of confidence without really reviewing this whole end of day in-depth.

in response to the bold, that's something i don't think you've mentioned before – what about

your

actions make less sense as scum in the case of town cogito ergo sum?

[LicketyQuickety]

ok so even if you believe that which, heaven help you I guess...how the fuck does not including him on the list at all imply he has any knowledge of ces' alignment?

It means he's voting him but lists three scum with him not being there. Like I'm talking about reads for tomorrow, but they include the person I'm voting today, Shea. It at least shows he's not confident on his read on CES while being on him. Note that he town readed him, then voted him, then says he doesn't know how he is flipping. If you can quote any certain towns person doing the same as him, I'd reconsider.

Which would make me fucking Town, you moron... How can I possibly be "not confident" in read if I am Scum in White Flag?

[Thestatusquo]

I have tried to influence the game by voting my scum reads and attempting to get people to vote for them. I literally wrote a case on eddie day 2.

Your characterization of my play is just flat out wrong.

Also, scum players try to influence the game too. I don't even know what point you think you're making.

[Ranmaru]

CES and you both have tip toed around each other. He's only voting you because this is his last chance for survival.

bullfucking shit.

I many times engaged about ces specifically. I talked ces meta and why it led me to a null town read, I even did it with you personally.


then he responded to north and that response was garbage and didn't fit with the town meta I was referencing the whole game, so I changed my mind.

we literally had conversations where I added onto conversations about ces you were having.

this is just straight up fucking false.

I can only remember one interaction where you ask him why he wasn't voting Eddie instead of Marquis

[northsidegal]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

ha, do you understand the desire sometimes to just call yourself obvtown now?

[LicketyQuickety]

I also think the balance of my play has been pretty town as well, I think thats what should clear me, but obviously you disagree there.

ha, do you understand the desire sometimes to just call yourself obvtown now?

Honestly, I do sometimes.

[Thestatusquo]

no, but I think that the confluence of evidence suggests the exact opposite of your read and you're ignoring it.

there are like 2 individual factors here that make me unlikely to be buddies with ces specifically.

the first is that it would require me to be hard bussing on scum buddy while trying to also bus your other scum read.

"hard bussing"? is all you mean by that your vote here? because nowhere else in the game, if i recall correctly, were you really pushing on cogito ergo sum. to that, i would ask – do you expect scum lynches in white flag to be entirely composed of town? if not, then i'd expect that certainly you can at least understand where i'm coming from and why your vote on cogito ergo sum isn't necessarily very impactful evidence and why i think a review of the game before this stage would hold more weight than looking at this vote here.

the second is that I am being counter wagoned, coincidentally but the literal three people I think are scum.

I don't think I'm cleared for those two things, but it seemed to me that you're saying that I'm more likely to be scum with ces than anyone else, and I just think the opposite is true.

I think my actions look way worse with a ces town flip than a scum one

.

yes, you're being counterwagoned – like i said, i think at face value that this

is

a valid point. my inner confirmation bias wants to just scream "distancing!!!" but i wouldn't be comfortable saying that with any level of confidence without really reviewing this whole end of day in-depth.

in response to the bold, that's something i don't think you've mentioned before – what about

your

actions make less sense as scum in the case of town cogito ergo sum?

by hard bussing I simply mean adding momentum to a lynch. CES wasn't a foregone conclusion until I voted him. Gamma was still waffling, he wasn't ADs first choice, ranmaru is dead set opposed. Dunn is off in nowhere land.

I had been slight town reading ces before that, and my jumping on the wagon made it way more likely to happen than if I had aggressively pushed dunn there.

I'm not trying to claim the wagon was my doing or that I was pushing ces before this wagon, but I think downplaying my role on it by calling my vote scummy is just not accurate.

I mean...standard scum hunting right, if ces flips town? I jumped onto a wagon late on a townie, which would be third misslynch I was on where I either led the charge or aggressively pursued. I led the charge d1, I cased eddie day 2. It doesn't look good for me from the standpoint of holistic play. I also think it makes the me-dunn pairing more plausible. If ces is town it makes more sense that I would be trying to distance/bus my buddy dunn. I don't think that assertion makes sense if ces flips scum, but it does if he flips town.

for the record, I have talked about this before. I mentioned it when we were talking about who looks good/bad from flips.