Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[Netopalis]

Gyro. Rather useless posts which sound mildly scummy means that even if it is a mislynch, it's not a terrible one.

[kikuchiyo]

Apparently its Raskol. I don't cut replacements slack.

[Gyro]

Gyro. Rather useless posts which sound mildly scummy means that even if it is a mislynch, it's not a terrible one.

This post screams of scum.

You're pretty much saying that it doesn't fucking matter if I'm innocent since you seem to believe my posts are useless, accusing you is useless to you apparently. If that's the mentality you believe should be done then we wouldn't have deadlines that last 2 weeks would we?

Also, quantity isn't quality. I haven't really seen any post from you that was by any means helpful. A failed accusation and backtracking your words. Nice resume partner.

Quit being moronic. Looking for any reason to vote someone with piece a garbage reasons. He accused me better get him outta the way. *sob*

stronger fos

actually, I dislike stalling.

vote: Netopalis

Didn't wanna vote considering it looks like I did it because you accused me but remember it's only because I called you out. So yeh.

[walrus helmet]

If I HAD to choose right now... malpascp. Speaking of which, has it been long enough for a prod?

[Mr.Jester]

If I had to choose right now, I'd go with the lynch all lurkers policy. Unfortunately that results in a tie between Malpascp, Darkstrike/Raskol and Owen.

[crypto]

@walrus helmet

Demonstrating my preferred style of unvoting.

Why did you feel the need to do so?

Also, what do you think of Kiku, Ecto, and Neto? (Awesomely intuitive nicknames, by the way.)

@Ectomancer

Why does the prolonged exchange make Neto and I look like we're either both scum or both not scum?

You seem to think there's merit in fishing through the mass of lurkers for scum. Do you have any particular suspects (there or elsewhere), other than Darkstrike/Raskol, who you think are worth pursuing?

@afatchic

You seem to be stating a lot of information rather than opinion.

Yes, the above is a question. Answer it for easy town points.

@JereIC

Pick two scum out of AFC, Jester, Ecto, Gyro, and Kiku.

@Mr.Jester

I put a Nerf gun to your head and ask you if U.N. Owen is town or scum. You must choose one. Answer wrongly and I pull the trigger. First, though, I'll shoot you in the knee unless you tell me your top suspect(s) outside Malpascp, Raskol, and Owen.

[Ectomancer]

Experience tells me that the type of exchange you two are having often leads to the lynch of one of the two. An early bloodying between scum partners is not unusual, so an initial exchange is not unexpected, but there was some real doggedness on your part (not so much on Neto's) to keep pursuing this, even though you began to look worse as it wore on.
Even after Neto unvoted, rather than turn your attention to the other two players on your wagon and begin the process of beating them off, you kept the grind up on Neto until he finally voted you again.
So why would you do that? Ploy is the low probability option. While you can turn an inside straight, you only try if you can buy in low, and doing it day 1 is high risk.
No, I think something else is at work there and I'll need some time to work it out.

I've come to believe that out of a 3 man scum team you are almost certain to have 1 in the lower 30% of posters on day 1 if you allow them to simply hang back. By far and away I've seen players who are in the 50% above in posts get lynched day 1. These numbers are all gut, but given to give you an idea of where I think the numbers lie.
When you factor in a hard 2 week deadline, then the temptation to hide in the weeds becomes even greater. As you said, which of the multiple barely actives do you lynch?
Drive them out, get information out of them. How much is enough? I dont know. But I shouldn't be able to filter their posts and have them take less than a page, but thats just me.
And yes I was burned recently by the lurker who managed to never say anything not too suspicious by virtue of never being forced to say more than they wanted.

[Raskol]

Preliminary comments time.

There's not a lot of great info to go on at this point, but I do have tentative town reads on crypto and Kukichyo. It's mostly gut, but I wouldn't want to lynch either of them at this moment.

Mr. Jester is probably at the top of my scumlist, and seems like a decent policy lynch as well. I would rather have malcasp/Owen replaced.

Everyone else is neutral at this point. Hopefully that will change as I'm able to get into this a a bit more.

[Raskol]

vote: Mr. Jester

[Faraday]

Raskol (2) (JereIC, kikuchiyo, ]
Malpascp (1) [afatchic]
crypto (3) [ Malpascp, U.N. Owen], Netapolis]
Netapolis (2) [Crypto, Gyro]
Mr.Jester (1) [Raskol]

Not voting: (3) [, Walrus Helmet, Mr. Jester,Ectomancer]

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline hits on Tuesday 10th November @ 11am GMT

U.N. Owen has not of yet picked up his prod. I'll give him another few hours and then begin to search for a replacment

It's been 24 hours as of now, searching for a replacement.

[Faraday]

Please not another rule modification regarding prodding 'If you do not open a prod within 24 hours I will start looking for a replacement'

I'd forgot to add this, with that being said, looking for a U.N. Owen replacement now.

[Faraday]

Replacements at a premium! Xvart replaces U.N. Owen. Your mod is obviously charming.

Thanks for replacing in

[xvart]

Hello everyone! Don't you just hate having to replace people? Anyway, I just wanted to drop in and say hello real fast. I've very quickly skimmed the thread, but I will be doing a more thorough reading tonight and get some thoughts posted. But, to wet your whistle I thought I would also answer these questions:

Oooh questions, I nearly forgot. Although sufficient discussion has already been generated, could everyone answer these questions please?

1. How many games of mafia have you played?
2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?
3. What is your favourite power role to have?
4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?

1. This is my second on this site (first is ongoing). I've played standard games in person with cards since I was a kid and I've played at other sites several times.
2. In face to face games I always loved being mafia. Online, I can't make the comparison.
3. The only "power role" I have ever had was this weird, unaligned, guy whose starting win condition was "you win when you are the only person alive." However, he also had an ability that would be activated upon being recruited, so I would have a one shot night kill, and would then win with the cult group. Unfortunately, the recruiter died, and that left me with no ability to kill, other than voting, and no teammates!
4. I will get to this later!

Until then, I'm glad to be here with all of you! Happy hunting,

xvart.

[xvart]

First:

unvote: crypto

Because even though I feel the "discussions" he has been involved in have been very distracting and have not yielded much in terms of helpful information (other than the possibility that one of the two of them might be scum) I also feel there are bigger fish to fry. I doubt I would have ever voted for him in the first place, but I guess that is the nature of the beast we call replacing. I will also say, in full disclosure, that if it was getting to be the eleventh hour I would lynch him over a no lynch without thinking twice (no offense, crypto).

Because I'm mafia

trying

to look scummy with an unexplained vote switch.

Or, because [reason reserved].

I don't like this post at all. Anyone willing to publicly admit he or she is mafia almost deserves a lynch, whether it was a joke or not.

----

yeah, gonna hold back a bit and check things out from a distance before I start dry humping anyone here with accusation.

As much as I appreciate you not dry humping anyone, I like this post about as much as I like a poop flavored lollipop. Basically you were telling us that you were going to be lurking, not really posting anything of substance (either town-like or scum-like) and that is okay because you warned us ahead of time.

In fact, you didn't even come post until you were prodded.

And, in fact, you even thanked the mod for the prod, meaning you didn't realize that your absence had been so long, meaning you weren't, in fact, "checking things out from a distance."

----

Post 117:

Jester's post is...odd, but not what I'd call scummy, just because I've done similar things.

As scum or town?

----

Experience tells me that the type of exchange you two are having often leads to the lynch of one of the two. An early bloodying between scum partners is not unusual, so an initial exchange is not unexpected, but there was some real doggedness on your part (not so much on Neto's) to keep pursuing this, even though you began to look worse as it wore on.
Even after Neto unvoted, rather than turn your attention to the other two players on your wagon and begin the process of beating them off, you kept the grind up on Neto until he finally voted you again.
So why would you do that? Ploy is the low probability option. While you can turn an inside straight, you only try if you can buy in low, and doing it day 1 is high risk.
No, I think something else is at work there and I'll need some time to work it out.

I was going to say something along these lines.

----

Seems like a hypocritical comment to make there Netopalis, the broken record one that is.

Yeah, I actually mentioned why I put a fos on you in an earlier post. Not sure if you read it or not, pretty insulting if you ask me.

Seemingly you are trying to pick up the pieces of a mishap you made with crypto accusation along

with high defense and been attempting to get on

anyone's

case you can.

It's a shock that you seem to get very fishy of someone who makes a negative comment towards you.

But that's just a fos, not a vote you see.

So you should back off on me. You're getting quite frantic son.

(Emphasis (bolding) mine, see comments below)

Is it just me, or is Gyro reading way too much into a simple statement? I hardly see how this statement:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record....

You imply above that you want to FOS me. Why is that?

is "frantic", overly "defensive", very "fishy", or warrants "backing off?" Gyro - were you expecting a blast of a post condemming you and just went with it? Or do you really think Netopalis' two sentence post warrants your reaction to him?

In my opinion, you son, are "getting quite frantic." And, you seem to have this wholier than thou opinion, that people need to back off of you. Is there some reason why you are the only one who people cannot ask simple questions of?

In all honesty, I don't even understand the first comment:

assuming you'd get upset @ the fos. you're being overly defensive which doesn't look good for you.

Which comes right after a post about yourself and your playstyle. Do you mean you assumed he would get upset at your original FoS? Or was it the beginning of a question,

Assuming you would get upset at the original FoS, would you...

? It is another broken sentence that has no context outside of itself.

And Gyro, before you go off on me saying how frantic I seem to be, all this I'm saying now is not because I believe you are necessarily mafia; but rather, reading through this thread I have seen things get debated and articulated to death, over relatively ridiculous minutia, and I don't want us going into the final hours still divided on a lynch since certain people have been making sure we focus on the mundane instead of actual scumhunting.

He didn't reassert his FoS on page 8. It's relatively clear. I feel like you are deliberately coloring your critics' posts however you like.

It isn't clear at all, and while it may not be an officially bolded FoS, Gyro himself makes the clarification that it was a FoS and not a vote; when you, crypto, are saying it wasn't either. Whether or not it is a FoS or not is irrelevant, I just don't want crypto launching into this huge case on something so fundamentally flawed that the original poster isn't even clear on the intention:

But that's just a fos, not a vote you see. So you should back off on me. You're getting quite frantic son.

Just to sum up, Gyro's post screams scum.

Pretend the mod just made a post that says you have to chose your lynch target in the very next post. Who would it be? (no lynch is an answer)

I would have to say Gyro, for reasons listed previously. I've got my eye on crypto, Netopalis and Mr.Jester.

And boy, judging by his reaction to Netopalis, I can't wait to see what I get after doing this:

vote: Gyro

(and I'm serious, Gyro. I'm not reaction fishing here)

xvart.

[crypto]

Awesome, Mod, thanks for these replacements.

This game must have the shortest replacement intervals I've ever seen.

I don't like this post at all. Anyone willing to publicly admit he or she is mafia almost deserves a lynch, whether it was a joke or not.

It wasn't a joke. It was sarcasm used to tip off whoever I was talking to while cloaking my intention enough that Malpascp, were he not paying attention, wouldn't think much of it.

It isn't clear at all, and while it may not be an officially bolded FoS, Gyro himself makes the clarification that it was a FoS and not a vote

My point was/is that you can't

renew

suspicion. It will be evident in player's redirection of his own attention to other players. As far as I'm concerned, Neto was trying to emphasize some sudden surge of suspicion from Gyro, when Gyro had first gone on the attack well before then. Anyway, it's probably a null tell for both of them.

[kikuchiyo]

xvart: How do you go from "all this I'm saying now is not because I believe you are necessarily mafia" to "Just to sum up, Gyro's post screams scum."?

Did I miss something?

[Gyro]

As much as I appreciate you not dry humping anyone, I like this post about as much as I like a poop flavored lollipop. Basically you were telling us that you were going to be lurking, not really posting anything of substance (either town-like or scum-like) and that is okay because you warned us ahead of time.

In fact, you didn't even come post until you were prodded.

That last statement isn't true. Learn to pay attention.

Is it just me, or is Gyro reading way too much into a simple statement? I hardly see how this statement:

lmao. Is it me or is that how its done on this site? It's my first game so I'm trying my best to adapt. Also I don't think I'm reading to much into it. Sounds like a contradiction on your end.

Gyro - were you expecting a blast of a post condemming you and just went with it? Or do you really think Netopalis' two sentence post warrants your reaction to him?

In my opinion, you son, are "getting quite frantic." And, you seem to have this wholier than thou opinion, that people need to back off of you. Is there some reason why you are the only one who people cannot ask simple questions of?

it wasn't his 2 sentence post, it was a build up of all his posts actually.
Also for the second opinion I wouldn't disagree with you there. I'm kind of like that when innocent. You can ask questions, I'm answering them I believe. I don't see where you draw those conclusions.

Which comes right after a post about yourself and your playstyle. Do you mean you assumed he would get upset at your original FoS? Or was it the beginning of a question,

Assuming you would get upset at the original FoS, would you...

? It is another broken sentence that has no context outside of itself.

Is it just me, or is xvart reading way too much into a simple statement?

And Gyro, before you go off on me saying how frantic I seem to be, all this I'm saying now is not because I believe you are necessarily mafia; but rather, reading through this thread I have seen things get debated and articulated to death, over relatively ridiculous minutia, and I don't want us going into the final hours still divided on a lynch since certain people have been making sure we focus on the mundane instead of actual scumhunting.

You don't seem frantic really. I like how you keep mentioning that word as if it was a negative. I actually agree with you on the discussed topics to death bit, I'm not one who does that type of thing regardless.

vote: Gyro

(and I'm serious, Gyro. I'm not reaction fishing here)

xvart.

After reading this mega-post I honestly don't see where you're coming from with this vote. It's been seemingly a sum-up of my play and you not liking it.

You said you don't think I'm necessarily mafia followed by saying one of my joke posts where I rhymed a sentence screams scum.

You said I was a lurker and someone who gave vague info then began attacking all my comments which related to in-depth gameplay.

It's hard to take you seriously with you flipping your words every chance you get.

From the looks of it this seems like a attempt to back up Netopalis.

[Netopalis]

Firstly, in defense of Crypto, I'm getting increasingly annoyed at the tendency of people on this site to vote for people or suspect them over jokes. I find it to be a null tell at best. Humor is not a scumtell.

I predictably do agree with a lot of other things by Xvart, though. I didn't want to bring it up myself, but it was pretty much as if Gyro said "I'd do this, but you'll flip out...", then I made a perfectly rational and calm question, which was followed by an accusation of flipping out. I'm curious as to what I could have done to

not

flip out in his eyes there.

In re: Gyro: I only really got angry at one point during my discussion with Crypto - that is at the point where I had been asked to rehash the same point 4 times. I hardly think that it warrants a supposition that I would flip out at any instant to attack you. I also really dislike how you seem to be taking the backing up of a person's arguments to be scummy, regardless of whether that person's role is known or not.

[JereIC]

Unvote

Apologies for the slightly extended V/LA. I'm running a little short on time, so I'm just going to post to respond to the folks who asked me questions (sorry if I missed anyone).

Walrus: Mostly laziness, but he was lurking enough to make him a decent first day lynch target too. Now that we've got a more active replacement, I feel ok unvoting.

Crypto: Of the people in your list, I find AFC and Gyro scummiest. Haven't seen much of AFC since he replaced in, and Gyro I can't make sense of. Of the people off your list, I'd say Neto is a bit scummy too, maybe between AFC and Gyro.

[Gyro]

Being called scummy isn't bothering me but I am kind of curious as to what I'm doing or saying to come off that way.

In re: Gyro: I only really got angry at one point during my discussion with Crypto - that is at the point where I had been asked to rehash the same point 4 times. I hardly think that it warrants a supposition that I would flip out at any instant to attack you. I also really dislike how you seem to be taking the backing up of a person's arguments to be scummy, regardless of whether that person's role is known or not.

Yeah, understood your point.

[crypto]

that is at the point where I had been asked to rehash the same point 4 times

That's not what happened. Feel free to make lousy excuses for yourself and bask in your Ecto-appointed freedom, but that's shit.

[Netopalis]

Netopalis, you still think reaction-fishing like I did is anti-town?

Is fishing for reactions scummy? Is posting unexplained votes scummy?

What do you mean by "scummy"? That in your experience, scum do whatever action more than town? Or something else?

...but why are unexplained votes anti-town/scummy? Also, what are the alternatives you would recommend for reaction fishing?

Why/how does the function in and of itself negatively affect the town or positively affect the mafia?

[Faraday]

Mapascp has been prodded.


N.B It's come to my attention moving day seems to be scheduled for this weekend, this means the forums may be down. With this being said, I don't know how much this will affect things, but I'll be flexible with the deadline and extend it if the site is down and such.

[crypto]

Neto, the first three are all completely different from each other. You failed to answer the third, so I repeated it. You failed again, so I repeated it again.

Now stop returning to that screed.

[xvart]

I don't like this post at all. Anyone willing to publicly admit he or she is mafia almost deserves a lynch, whether it was a joke or not.

It wasn't a joke. It was sarcasm used to tip off whoever I was talking to while cloaking my intention enough that Malpascp, were he not paying attention, wouldn't think much of it.

Yes, sorry; I was using sarcasm and joke interchangeably. My point was that anyone who jokingly (or sarcastically) says they are mafia will get the reaction, no mafia would ever say that, so he couldn't be mafia. Or, if you were mafia, people would still think the same thing. It creates confusion, and although I am new here, I think that could be WIFOM argument?

xvart: How do you go from "all this I'm saying now is not because I believe you are necessarily mafia" to "Just to sum up, Gyro's post screams scum."?

Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything; good catch. That was a mistake. When I post a lot I just open up any post in a new tab and respond, then cut and paste into the original post. When the post is really long, sometimes I change my feelings and I have to go back and fix it; but I missed it that time. As I kept typing, my opinion changed about Gyro and I just didn't get that changed.

As much as I appreciate you not dry humping anyone, I like this post about as much as I like a poop flavored lollipop. Basically you were telling us that you were going to be lurking, not really posting anything of substance (either town-like or scum-like) and that is okay because you warned us ahead of time.

In fact, you didn't even come post until you were prodded.

That last statement isn't true. Learn to pay attention.

Oh really? Please show me the content you provided between this post (62):

yeah, gonna hold back a bit and check things out from a distance before I start dry humping anyone here with accusation.

and the mod prodding you (post 137):

Prods sent to Gyro and Walrus Helmet too

To which you responded seven posts later (post 144), ending it with:

thanks for prod ; appreciate it

So show me the content that I apparently missed, and then you can continue to teach me on how to pay attention.

It's hard to take you seriously with you flipping your words every chance you get.

Except I'm not flipping my words. Yes, I flipped my words in calling you not scum, then voting for you; but I hope I have cleared that up. I understand that I lost some credibility there, and I accept that.

The lurking/content thing is not flipping words, as I have explained.

I feel you are reaching too far and trying too hard to fabricate arguments.

xvart.