Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[Zachrulez]

Vi replaces ckool5000

Night will be extended by 24 hours to Sunday October 4th at 9pm

[Zachrulez]

All of you gather together in the town hall realizing that you are one person short on this early morning. An extensive search is conducted for the whereabouts of Netopalis, who is found shot dead in an ally drowned in his own blood. A search of his body reveals a stephoscope, as you all realize that your lives just got significantly less safe.

Netopolis is dead, he was the

town doctor.

That leaves...

Nikanor
Haylen
Yellowbunny
Maemuki
Battle Mage
jasonT1981
Sotty7
KittyMo
hitogoroshi
DTMaster
Vi

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch. Day 2 will end no later than Sunday October 25th at 9pm.

[Nikanor]

Results, Maemuki.

[Zachrulez]

Deadline rules have been changed. They will now be 3 weeks with me reserving the right to make them shorter if activity stifles.

[Nikanor]

Hooray. Thank you, Zach!

[Vi]

Posting to confirm that I'm playing and will be ready to go when I'm back on my own computer.

If you have any questions for me before then, please ask.

Also, hai everyone ^.^

[Nikanor]

Oh hey, I didn't notice you had replaced in.
Welcome Vi!

[Maemuki]

*nod* Sure.
I tracked KittyMo - she did nothing at all.

I feel dumb right now.

[hitogoroshi]

KittyMo? That was kind of out of left field. But hey, a result is a result.

Welcome, Vi. When you find the time, could you give us your views of yesterday, in light of neto dying and having his claim confirmed? Ckool didn't exactly give us much to work with and that gives us the double benefit of a.) some real content from your player slot and b.) someone looking over d1 intently knowing the information of n1. 26 pages is a lot for most of us to slog through - but you have to do it anyway, eh?

[Maemuki]

I know, the "Battle Mage has to dictate my vote" seemed odd to me. :<

[hitogoroshi]

Ah, that makes sense enough. Personally if that event was the one that raised the most questions for me (and d1 had no shortage of eyebrow raisers) I would have tracked BM instead, but that's more a matter of personal preference.

Hopefully everyone will be here today, no one will whine, and we'll have a more sensible d2 that answers some of our questions.

[yellowbunny]

That was a crazy end to the day, to say the least. Oh, and welcome Vi!

@YB
1. You discussed CSL's actions in your post. I was trying to point out that to prove your own hypo-claim one of the ways is to flip you (aka CSL's predecessor). You brought this up with the whole hypo situation. I offered an answer. The CSL - Mae link that you seem to bring up and then shoot is very annoying when you, yourself bring this up.

2. Do you realize the town disaster if Mae flips Tracker tomorrow. I provided a meta link with Foggy Londontown to show how lynching unCCed PRs are disastrous.

If she is scum, then all PR claims must be dealt with day 2. If a Mae lynch goes through within the next hour of deadline, and she flips tracker, you are obv next target.

3. Lol nice obv misrepresentation.

Why didn't you bring up a case on me before when I attacked you. I attacked you arguments about BM, I attacked Neto for being passive and refusing to scum hunt to the point of replacing out because he feels useless. Reread again and support your case with quotes. You have an hour and twilight to do so.

4. Trackers are extremely useful to the town, like a cop. Do you not agree? If Mae is the town tracker, then why are you pushing for a Mae lynch?

1. What are you talking about here? What part of my post is this supposed to be a response to?
2. How do you plan to confirm Mae's claim? Do you have a plan, or are we just supposed to believe Mae?
3. Already answered the first question, and in previous posts I point out some of the places where you do that shady stuff while tunneling on me. I am sure you have read them, so if you have a problem with something I said before, quote it and let me know.
4. @town: Is it just me, or does it seem like DT is taking it for granted that Mae is the town tracker? I cannot help but wondering if he knows something we don't...

Also, your 635 is just wrong on different levels. First of all, as Nikanor points out, very fishy placement. Secondly, you weren't under pressure day 1, and claimed to be town...yet you say you are "...brimming full with information between players from my activity..." Exactly what information would a (alleged) mislynch of you give town? Thirdly, you claimed VT. When you did this, there 1 hour and 7 minutes left before the lynch, so its HIGHLY unlikely that there would have been enough time to get everyone to agree to lynch you and vote accordingly. This make your offer seem disingenuous.

@Kitty: I believe you had asked me about BM yesterday (what happened to my suspicion of him). At the time I had last posted yesterday, I found him scummy (but less so than you or DT at that point). But after his post 613, I don't know what to think. He didn't have to point that out - if he was scum, I would think he'd be fine with my mislynch.

[Maemuki]

Well, if I had gotten a bad result on Kitty, I would track Battle Mage.

I know, dumb, but it's done.

[yellowbunny]

I know, the "Battle Mage has to dictate my vote" seemed odd to me. :<

Well, if I had gotten a bad result on Kitty, I would track Battle Mage.

I know, dumb, but it's done.

So, from this I am getting that you suspected that they were a scumpair (since Kitty let BM dictate her vote). Is that correct? If not, what were your thoughts on Kitty and BM that you chose her over him?

[Maemuki]

So, from this I am getting that you suspected that they were a scumpair (since Kitty let BM dictate her vote). Is that correct? If not, what were your thoughts on Kitty and BM that you chose her over him?

1. I dunno. It seemed more logical to me at the time.
2. Kitty seemed to respond to BM a lot, and I still don't know how BM did it if Kitty was town...Or why Kitty let herself be controlled by BM.

[Battle Mage]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

I think the Doc-kill reads newb-scum more than anything. So we aren't looking at the brightest, most confident, group of mafiates ever to grace MS. It makes me hesitate with people like Haylen, but i could potentially see Jason in that group.

Vote: Jason

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

BM

[jasonT1981]

OK you have yet to present a case on me despite my asking many times for you to.

[Battle Mage]

OK you have yet to present a case on me despite my asking many times for you to.

That in itself is one of your biggest scumtells. I've got to go now, but i'll think about humouring you.

BM

[jasonT1981]

Wait... asking for a case to be made against me when you have a vote on me without making one is a scumtell on me?

How is this a scumtell on me?

You have a vote on me without making any sort of case apart from 'but i could potentially see Jason in that group' So asking for you to actually make a case and give your reasons is a scumtell?

weird

[Sotty7]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

Vote: BM

At this point I am thinking that one of Yellow and Battle Mage are scum. With how BM came in so close to the deadline and stopped us from getting a lynch just screams scum to me. Yellow's initial attacks on BM were pretty bad and I just can't see them as bussing. I am still suspious of Yellow, but it has been downgraded in the face of BM's actions.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

What changed?

Haylen needs to post more, if she doesn't I could be happy lynching her too.

BM, Yellow and Haylen are my top three.

[jasonT1981]

Sotty, what do you think about BM's change of heart regarding Mae? he seemed to be all over her then suddenly changed his mind?

I would agree that BM acted to stop a lynch from happening yesterday. He voted for me yesterday without much reasoning.

I'm willing to lynch Jason.
Also, what happened to treating Mae as confirmed town if Haylen flips scum? I can't remember the exact words, but you did say something along those lines.

that was if Haylen flipped town. So yeh, something along those lines. The complete opposite in fact!

Vote: Jason

Worth a punt i guess.

BM

Just saying it was 'worth a punt' So close to the deadline?

he then misrepped me when I got annoyed a what I thought was the self hammer claiming that I knew YB was town when I said no such thing.

bah at Self Hammer

What is this Jason? You BLATANTLY know YB is town.

BM

How is this BLATANTLY knowing YB is town?

He then again votes me today without little reasoning and claims me asking him to provide a case is actually a scumtell.

Actually I think I would be happy with a BM lynch today and would like to put some pressure on him to answer his questions, explain his voting paterns and build a case on me.. he has voted for me both days now without making so much as a case.

vote: BattleMage

[Nikanor]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim.

By 'scummy posting,' are you talking about the fact that she is insulting herself? I would agree that that is usually scummy, but Maemuki's meta regularly calls herself dumb, so this is more of a nulltell. Correct me if I'm on the wrong track about what you mean, here.

I think the Doc-kill reads newb-scum more than anything.

Agreed. More experienced scum would have left Netopalis alone, especially when his target is easily predicted and avoided. This is a WIFOM argument, however, and should not be taken as too big a tell.

[DTMaster]

@YB
1. Sigh. You wrote:

Would hypo scum defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? Maybe. If he had simply refrained from voting Mae and casually mentioned "yeah, I think this case is bs", your argument would make sense to me.[

But CSL did a hell of a lot more than that...he defended Mae so vehemently that he put himself in real danger of being lynched, and didn't back down. And unless you are going to argue that he was trying to pull of some sort of gambit, that is not consistent with a scum win condition.

To test this we would need to lynch you. You were also pushing for for a Mae lynch too post claim. I said this:

One of the best ways to test this is to lynch you the unclaimed person to test the validity of Mae's claim.

You established yourself:

1. An unavoidable link between CSL and Mae which would test if either of you are scum. You said that CSL's defence doesn't make sense in a scum POV. It does in any linked POV, whether mason or lovers. You complain about being attacked about this link, but still bring it up as your defence. Ideally you would want to go for a CSL/YB lynch because Mae claimed PR. PRs make or break the game for the town.

2. The plan to confirm Mae's claim is to wait till tomorrow. If Mae is the town tracker then there is no doctor to protect her. If she isn't then I suggest we look at Mae and hang her up. Given the fact that she said Kitty did nothing, if Kitty supports this then Mae's claim of tracker is confirmed. A mafia tracker is yet to be determined but should be kept in mind. Any problems?

Also why are you still adament about a Mae lynch for day 1 still when Neto's doc claim was verified through NKs. It's counter productive to just lynch a claimed PR when it's much more efficent to scum hunt in other ways and use the NK to confirm roles if they are in question. Plus if they live we will get results to analyze to see if they are legit or not.

3.

I think DT is scum too. Actually, all things considered, he'd be my top pick for a lynch today - if I were a vig, he'd so be dead right now. You will note he was not on the scum list he asked for -- omission was on purpose. I was hoping he'd back off me for a little bit and we could lynch someone else (someone who was maybe actually scum) and realized that attacking him would prevent that from happening...and then I could mount my case against him on D2.

Attacking me because I attacked you is poor. I didn't base my case on you just on CSL, I included your actions. You do avoid the point my argument that:

She did a personal attack on BM with somewhat WIFOMy reasoning. The whole personal attack to rile up CSL with "taunting" (Read ISO 2).

with:

So if I try to explain CSL's actions, I'm scummy. If I say that I cannot explain them, that's scummy too. That's grossly unfair.

because you are attacking BM not because he was scummy, but because he was abrasive to CSL in his posts. That is not scum hunting, that was lecturing someone about their posts and then voting him because he was mean. This is also known as fake scum hunting and appealing to the town emotion. Your retort avoids this critical issue.

The second thing is I also attacked Neto for noncommital analysis and Jason for the above same thing. I also challanged BM's proxy vote and his arguments about his theory. Saying that I just focused on you is false and misrepesenting me when you do an ISO read on me.

4. Again what is there to suggest Mae isn't a town tracker. If you can prove to me that Mae is mafia fake claiming or she is mafia tracker then prove it.

Don't try and establish a scummy link on me for saying it's not the best lynch to kill off the unclaimed PR. If Mae flips town then it's disasterous. If Mae flips scum it's a victory. Do the above proof and you have my support for a Mae lynch.

@Sotty
Why would scum push for a no lynch with the whole: deadline is nearing argument is avaliable to them. :<.

You are setting up for a false dilemia where it's scummy to not hammer, and it would be scummy to hammer at the same time. Considering the last vote count was split up 3:3: 2:1:1:1:1 you can clearly see that the town was extremely divided on the lynch. You needed 7. Blaming BM for the no lynch when the above vote count seems moot. You have yet to attack me to premature claim and switch to self voting, or to Jason maintaining his vote on the unCCed doctor. You also didn't attack Nik for not going with a YB lynch but rather went for a Jason lynch. There are so many other examples of other attacks and such that it was clear the town was divided.

Your argument reads as: opprotunistic.

@Jason
The above statement to Sotty applies to you at the same time.

@Nik
Optimal WIFOM setup by scum by keeping the doctor alive is pretty advanced. I have meta evidence of that which screwed the town over at the last minute in Internal Mafia which proved to be an effective gambit. Though mafia had a watcher which made things extremely difficult.

[DTMaster]

Also I wanted to test something out. Since there was a ??? on the vote count

Vote: Zachrulez

This isn't a bastard mod game though. :<

[DTMaster]

Oh wait I figured it out.

Unvote

(Doubt it counted).