Micro 789 - Alternating 9p - Mafia wins

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #1000 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:26 am

Post by Ankamius »

In post 996, BlackVoid wrote:I guess BuJaber is the slot I feel the strongest about. He's been leading the discussion and gamesolving. The biggest thing that sticks out to me are the twists and turns in his reads. For instance there was no reason to push back on Iconeum in when he was pushing elsewhere and Iconeum was townreading him. He's pushing in too many directions and potentially antagonizing many players.

Can you go more into your Lovebird townread?
---
In post 699, Lovebird wrote:
In post 674, BuJaber wrote:If NM had answered my questions with anything other than 'maybe' I probably would have unvoted. I tried to squeeze something out of him. He's too hard to sort with his playstyle and my gut told me scum this game. The fact that cheeky was so sure gives me pause. You know what let's shoot cheely first. I think GL was too inactive. He can't be partners with another lurker.
Why do you feel the need to justify yourself for the lynch here? Before anyone said anything about it?
In post 704, Lovebird wrote:Don't really think cheeky is scum. GL's point on the defending NM makes sense. Don't understand why scum does that.
These two posts are the main reason that townread started upon my initial read. I found three points of interest up to that point and she honed in on two of them in that set of posts; the conclusions weren't the same, but it's enough to indicate that we're on a similar wavelength.

BuJaber pinged me for the dissonance between wanting to push Cheeky yet blatantly giving himself an out onto GreenLiquid instead. Love's point here is saying essentially the same thing but in a different context.
The basis behind the GreenLiquid read came from the same post she referenced, albeit only a part of the post that swayed me.

Beyond that? I don't get that slimy feel that scum usually have when they're in trouble from her. I can generally follow what she's thinking and it makes sense to me. I'm also not sure why scum would want to wait for a replacement to come in before starting to put in effort, especially since she's looking like the default deadline lynch for the day and there's enough apathy around that it's not very likely things will turn around unless she fights for it. She's been actively responding enough to be able to when she's around, she still has a scumread on my slot at that point to fall back on instead of staying on Icon after it's pretty blatant he's town, and she hasn't really been probing out to find the new big wagon to try to push.

It just doesn't make sense to me why she'd play like this as scum.
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Post Post #1001 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:28 am

Post by Ankamius »

In post 995, BlackVoid wrote:But more than activity, when she did return to the thread, I don't like that she wanted to hold off on re-evaluating her reads until your slot was replaced. CheekyTeeky did this too to a certain extent.
In post 998, BlackVoid wrote:From , I definitely got the impression that the reason for the wait was to see if you were going to cc Iconeum but I could have conflated that some of my discussion with CheekyTeeky.
Ok, are you referring to different posts with these?
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Post Post #1002 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:32 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 991, BlackVoid wrote:My acceptance of his claim was gradual over a span of a few days.
He claimed on the 20th, you accepted on the 21st - my point isn't so much about literal time as much as there were still slots to CC. I also didn't like you intercepting his claim after he softed "of course scum would claim to draw out a counter"

To me the whole scenario went like this:

- Ico @ L-2 says "I'm never getting lynched today"
- BV says "of course scum would claim to get a CC and draw out PR"
- Ico claims PR not specifying which
- BV continues pressure
- Ico claims doc.
- BV asked who he protected (not sure why this matters to town, seems like scum trying to get more info)
- 3 people say not CC
- BV accepts doc claim saying blah blah logic and he felt genuine after rereading.

I'm struggling to buy the whole interaction and 180 as coming from town.
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Post Post #1003 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:32 am

Post by BlackVoid »

I'm talking about the same post. I interpreted it as waiting to see if you cc Iconeum since she still called Iconeum scum in that post. But I could see it as just wanting your slot to post in general.

So, when you were reading the thread and seeing Icon and Lovebird tunnel each other, your impression was that they were both town?
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Post Post #1004 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:34 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Also for future games Ico please never claim in a game of this pace until intent has been given.
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Post Post #1005 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:37 am

Post by Ankamius »

I thought that Lovebird was already town and I've already given my thoughts on her scumreads; it didn't affect my read negatively.

Icon I didn't need to get a read on at all, I'd already determined he's conftown.
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Post Post #1006 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:43 am

Post by BlackVoid »

In post 1002, CheekyTeeky wrote:He claimed on the 20th, you accepted on the 21st - my point isn't so much about literal time as much as there were still slots to CC. I also didn't like you intercepting his claim after he softed "of course scum would claim to draw out a counter"

To me the whole scenario went like this:

- Ico @ L-2 says "I'm never getting lynched today"
- BV says "of course scum would claim to get a CC and draw out PR"
- Ico claims PR not specifying which
- BV continues pressure
- Ico claims doc.
- BV asked who he protected (not sure why this matters to town, seems like scum trying to get more info)
- 3 people say not CC
- BV accepts doc claim saying blah blah logic and he felt genuine after rereading.

I'm struggling to buy the whole interaction and 180 as coming from town.
It doesn't really matter how many slots haven't cc'd him yet though. The "blah blah" logic that I'm talking about is that it makes no sense for scum to claim doc here - something that you haven't refuted or disagreed with over multiple posts. So, I'm asking again, can you refute the logic?

I expected scum in his position to claim cop for obvious reasons. When he softed, I thought he was softing cop and called him out on it. I was hard-scumreading Iconeum at this time so I wasn't going to accept a PR claim without him specifying which.

I asked him who he protected in case there was a cc and we needed to decide which claim was more credible. Asking immediately means he has less time to read through his posts and stances and claim to protect someone that it makes sense to protect.

On Thursday night (), I said the doc claim was throwing me off. At that point I was confused about what to believe. On Friday afternoon (), I started re-reading to see how his posts make sense from a town-Iconeum perspective. By Saturday morning (), it pretty much sunk in that there was really no reason for scum in his position to fake-claim doc. I was ready to treat him as conf-town and continue gamesolving from that angle.

But please explain what's wrong with my logic instead of calling it "blah blah" logic.
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Post Post #1007 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:44 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Those interactions aren't even taking into account how scummy ZZZX was with the quick hammer after lurking for days...trying to lurk all of Day 2 and also what looks like retrospectively, ZZZX whiteknighting NM by voting Rask.

Of course BV had to work his ass off to look town to reconcile the slot but the way his reads ended up lining up with with most people's reads and the way he handled Ico read scum to me in a game where apparently everyone is effing town lol.
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Post Post #1008 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:46 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Also not liking GL putting Love to L-1 before we heard the replacement out. GL had a fair bit of resistance to the Ico wagon which I need to look into too.
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Post Post #1009 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:48 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Looking at why Rask may have died is also important IMO. Will look at that and do some VCA.
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Post Post #1010 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:49 am

Post by BlackVoid »

In post 949, CheekyTeeky wrote:Oh missed that. If Ico is cleared then Im happy lynching Love.
Can you elaborate on this? I thought you were townreading Lovebird.
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Post Post #1011 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:51 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Also those people who are here while Love is at L-1 but not voting are lock clear imo.
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Post Post #1012 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:52 am

Post by BlackVoid »

Good to know I'm lock-clear. But can you actually answer my questions?
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Post Post #1013 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:53 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 1010, BlackVoid wrote:
In post 949, CheekyTeeky wrote:Oh missed that. If Ico is cleared then Im happy lynching Love.
Can you elaborate on this? I thought you were townreading Lovebird.
I was but I was sure of Ico scum and now things have changed with two replacements. Love could still be scum but I need to do some work as apparently I've been wrong all day. What bothers me is why I'm alive more than anything, give me some time.
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Post Post #1014 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:54 am

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 1012, BlackVoid wrote:Good to know I'm lock-clear. But can you actually answer my questions?
Oh except you :P
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Post Post #1015 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:56 am

Post by BlackVoid »

Was there a reason you were expecting to be night-killed? As for the Rask-kill, I think scum might have killed him because they thought he was a PR. He definitely gave off some PR-vibes with the "I'll claim when there's intent" post.
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Post Post #1016 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:13 am

Post by Ankamius »

ehhhhh

Cheeky can be town for now too.
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Post Post #1017 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:14 am

Post by BlackVoid »

How did you reach that conclusion based off of her last few posts?
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Post Post #1018 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:16 am

Post by Ankamius »

Oh right, this is a micro.

That leaves BuJaber and BlackVoid for right now out of PoE.

Uggggggggh walls
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Post Post #1019 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:18 am

Post by BlackVoid »

I'm kinda perplexed what exactly she doesn't understand about my progression on Iconeum. I explained it and asked her to refute my logic about three times now and she just avoided commenting on it. The only reason I'm not scumreading her is that the last time I played with her and tried to have a reasonable discussion, I was met with "vote me now, you're scum, doubt = zero" etc and I winded up voting her and she flipped town.
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Post Post #1020 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:19 am

Post by Ankamius »

In post 1017, BlackVoid wrote:How did you reach that conclusion based off of her last few posts?
The tone shift feels genuine.
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Post Post #1021 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:20 am

Post by BlackVoid »

What tone shift?
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Post Post #1022 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:23 am

Post by Ankamius »

Take a look at her overall outlook on this page compared to the last several. You'll see what I mean.
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Post Post #1023 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:26 am

Post by BlackVoid »

That's pretty vague. I read your post but that sentence doesn't make any sense to me. Mind explaining like I'm five?
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Post Post #1024 (ISO) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:33 am

Post by Ankamius »

She's suddenly motivated to do work when she wasn't before.

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