Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 2.1

Target	Wagon
Karnage (2)	skitter30 (1312), GuiltyLion (1313)
skitter30 (1)	Eve (1317)
Eve (1)	BBmolla (1318)
Not Voting (5)	acryon, SausasaurusRex, The Limit Does Not Exist, Karnage, Auro

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

[skitter30]

What about it do you think is backwards? It seemed like acryon was getting cold feet about a nom wagon as we got close to deadline and he tried to restart an Allo wagon. It’s possible that at that point scum could have pushed a deadline Allo lynch without getting a hardclaim. Do you disagree?

no? nom was a mislynch so why would scum switch at that point ...
it was a few hours before deadline iirc and i dont' think allo was viable at that point; allo could and should have been pushed earlier if that was what scum were trying to do

[acryon]

I'm confident that Rex will also tell as he posts more. We'll make him post more

So I told you I'd take your word for this, but now you need to explain. Why would you expect we'd get more from him?

[Auro]

Note that I didn't say I expect he'd post more, but that he would be readable when he posts more. We should make him post.

[skitter30]

i wouldn't object to wagoning him to pressure him but i'm kinda getting the vibe that he just doesn't check the game that often so i'm not sure how much that would accomplish

[acryon]

Note that I didn't say I expect he'd post more, but that he would be readable when he posts more. We should make him post.

I agree, but I'm not sure how we do that.

i wouldn't object to wagoning him to pressure him but i'm kinda getting the vibe that he just doesn't check the game that often so i'm not sure how much that would accomplish

Yeah the problem is we have multiple slots providing close to nothing, making this game very difficult to parse.

[skitter30]

indeed

[acryon]

VOTE: Eve

[Karnage]

Yeah the problem is we have multiple slots providing close to nothing, making this game very difficult to parse.

True and I'm part of the problem unfortunately

VOTE: Eve

Is eve one of the slots you were referring to? If so, why vote her and not me or a different slot?

[acryon]

Yeah the problem is we have multiple slots providing close to nothing, making this game very difficult to parse.

True and I'm part of the problem unfortunately

VOTE: Eve

Is eve one of the slots you were referring to? If so, why vote her and not me or a different slot?

I am not including her in that category. I am voting her because I don't feel great about the circumstances surrounding her votes on nom. Voting a slot for the purpose you allude to is unhelpful IMO when we have several people in that category. Just becomes whack-a-mole at that point.

[skitter30]

Hi why has this game all but died ...

[GuiltyLion]

Eve is probably town too.

I haven't read all the way yet but I wanna know why in your eyes Eve is "probably town"

[GuiltyLion]

... it's day2 and we've had flips already
i'm kinda not sure how you don't have any reads at this point ...

But on the flip side, it'd be kinda remarkable to be under that much pressure as scum and still refuse to fake any reads, no?

-Smart

some people play a scared scumgame, they operate out of fear of saying anything too out of line

[GuiltyLion]

If you're town, you don't want the cop to check you because it's a waste of check, which GL did say as much earlier on. So it was odd for him to then say either he/Karnage should be checked. He should know there's no real thing as a clear--we talked about this.

Many other things led me to believe GL was town, but I do think this post is odd, so I'd like to hear his thoughts on it.

I was frustrated that nom was saying to thought cop skitter, and also that nom was likely townflipping when I couldn't seem to get any traction on Karnage throughout late D2

I am rather convinced he's scum and knew that I was gonna be pushing it hard D2, I did not want to deal with what would be IMO a waste of a cop elsewhere

I also don't think I was ever like 'annoyed' with being cop checked? That feels like a misrep from Auro, I said I'd be fine with it even while acknowledging that it's a waste of a shot on you as town

[GuiltyLion]

What's interesting to me is GL's trajectory from being annoyed at inclusion in the cop bloc

Can you show me which posts gave you the feeling of me being "annoyed at inclusion in the cop bloc"? I was always more annoyed with being scumread by you and therefore discredited and constantly pushed against for my reads more than the idea of being in a copbloc.

[GuiltyLion]

With the respect to the soft, I definitely saw it and felt it was obvious at the time. I somewhat regret highlighting it so explicitly because I wonder if scum may not have seen it at the same time I did, but I also wanted to see if anyone was going to counterclaim or push Allo harder, which nobody did for about a page so then I backed off and re-evaluated. It also made his early game interactions with Eve make a ton more sense, cause he was skeptical of her for the TA claim when he was riffing on her shitposting but not giving content.

So yes I did see it immediately and I dunno how I would have played it as scum in terms of dayplay but if I were scum I always would have shot him at night there because I think it was pretty blatant. Acryon going back to Allo may be a towntell I feel, cause I don't think he'd miss it as scum if he were looking for TA suspects, and it seems unlikely he was faking not seeing it.

[GuiltyLion]

i'm kinda most skeptical of where she accused me of slipping because i really don't think there's any universe where she actually believes that

I read it as being a joke

this is possibly worse still though, how could you see it as a joke? Like best case "totally checked out and disengaged town taking a potshot" maybe, but there's no 'joke' there?

sarcasm can be a joke.

Can everybody look at this sequence again, now that we definitively know that nom is town and was genuinely accusing skitter of scumslipping.

First, Karnage tries to defend her by saying she was joking. Which makes no sense on its face, as it's pretty clear in context that she wasn't joking and it doesn't make any actual sense as a joke (see my 1071 as well) - what's the punchline? where's the humor coming from?

And then even after makes it clear she wasn't joking, Karnage doubles down trying to defend his interpretation, by saying now it could have been sarcastic? ?? Can you guys read nom's 862 and 864 and subsequent 947 and try to put yourself in the mindset of a townie who sees sarcasm in those posts?

I think it's much more likely Karnage knew she was flipping town and wanted to buddy up to her or make himself look good knowing she'd flip green. It's really hard for me to imagine thinking nom's posts were a joke or sarcastic and not even acknowledging I critically read the game wrong when called out on it. This is just defensive, irrational, and far more likely to be scum-motivated IMO than Karnage genuinely participating in the game and trying to get a handle on people

[GuiltyLion]

As another point - Karnage disappearing at deadline is sketchy at deadline too. As town, how often do you totally fail to check in on a game as it gets close to deadline? As scum I'll totally lurk the thread and avoid posting if things are going in a positive direction for me and I don't wanna deal with the effort of maintaining appearances if I don't have to, but if I'm town I'm

concerned

. Whenever it's the last time I can realistically make a post before deadline I'm giving my opinions, negotiating votes, and either making sure I'm available or telling people I'm

not

available when we're last minute scrambling for a wagon and lynch.

I know we have a bunch of lurksacks in this game overall but look at Molla's last posts in D1. That's low content/availability, but it's also showing actual thought about where the day is headed and how we can avoid no lynch. Karnage's last posts several days before deadline were calling me out for not voting, then asking who we were lynching 1018 and 1020, then saying he's fine off-wagon. There's little to no expression in his EOD1 posts about actually caring who's lynched or even whether it happens at all.

[GuiltyLion]

sorry there's a few minor typos and run ons in the posts above, I've had an edible and it's kicking in so my ability to choose the right words or proofread my posts occasionally gets sloppy

[Eve]

i think we have this in the bag

i don't think Karnage is scum

[Auro]

I townread Eve
Eve, you think Skitter's scum?

[Auro]

Oh I see you voted there. Good.

[Eve]

thanks for the support Auro

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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