Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]

[the worst]

1422/1423 abt lalen @ the world

will reconsider tunnel now if someone actually-towny tells me I'm being a dick

[Iconeum]

No, Lovebird is being a dick. Or is scum pretending to be bad town. Would lynch in both cases.

The problem was that you were not getting your reasoning across. Give me your thoughts on Lovebird in exchange for me voting Lalendra?

[the worst]

lovebird null (has dropped) which is while concerning not as annoying to me rn as a scumread
if there's a genuine dichotomy in ausuka/lovebird lovebird is scum like 65% of the time I think

[Iconeum]

VOTE: lalendra

[the worst]

happier voteparking here
VOTE: lalendra

[Lalendra]

lalendra, do you think theres any major differences in your alignments?

Whose alignments?

your town and scum game

I have much less scum experience so I tend to be pretty aggressive and tunnel on people moreso than I do as town.

[Lalendra]

Spoiler: Lalendra ISO + Q's

222 to 224 does not seem really interesting much at all, I like the question for why we should lynch vengeful; but I'm pretty sure vengeful would be better served as a scum utility than a town who could use a vig.

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

VOTE: Ircher

You've been tingling my scum sensors ever since your second post but I decided not to vote you because I wanted to see where the janitor wagon would go.

This post bothers me because it reacts to brass' comment as though it was supposed to be game solving. Furthermore, the question here is phrased in a way that tries to appear like its game solving itself. Honestly, this just feels like scum trying to look busy.

Add that to how Ircher seems intent on shutting down any form of setup spec and seems to focus too much on other people's reads (in my opinion) and judge them based on that. That makes me comfortable with this vote.

I am inclined to agree with everything Mutant says here but holding off on voting til I finish catching up.

Since you agree with

Mutant

((this question can also go to him))

on

Ircher's

earliest posts pinged you, what about it bothered you?

Also, what's odd about placing emphasis on other people's reads?

I can read Ircher well and I think this is his scumgame. The way I read Ircher is simple; he has an unique personality as town, which he doesn't really emulate as scum; additionally, as town he is generally a good player who makes sense and has good reads but can do odd things; as scum, he is often quite nickpicky and flat. I think this game shows the latter. (Although now that I've said this I probably can't use it in future games with him... oh well)

VOTE: Ircher

This is really helpful and definitely reinforces my Ircher scumlean.

Holy shit <post>429</post> sucks to read.

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

I like the independent assessment here and I'm getting a better idea of

Lalendra's

viewpoint, she's asserting some of her own thinking beyond her agreeing with

Mutant

and

Math

.

I'm sorry, can you mindread people and why they'd pick numbers they did for the draft?

There is a comically large difference between "the numbers are randomized" and "the numbers were carefully chosen by individual players in accordance with logic I'm just not privy to."

I just don't think it makes a lot of sense; anybody regardless of alignment could actively work toward getting a PR because it benefits their alignment.

I get that repeated numbers are probably not going to come from scum, but I don't see the draft being a strong way to discern someone's alignment without solid flip information.

to my great disappointment, i just came up for air from the metadive and i think taly might have to be town

FWIW, when I played with Taly before and they posted walls that irritated me on-sight, they were town.

Elabroate on that? rhsfjeakjnsjfeasersjfkawnd

Not Voting: The only one not voting that I'm actually townreading is Taly. Lalendra's ISO goes so far beyond "lynchbaity Lalendra" into the realm of "I am actively not doing anything this game".

This is a busy month for me, plus I had rehearsals Friday night and all day Saturday. I'm gonna try to make up for it now though \o/

Ausuka's <post>568</post> is super waffly in terms of a read on Ircher. I've never seen someone flip-flop that much on one person in one post.

Do you feel there's an associative between

Ircher

and

Ausuka

?

And yeah, the self-meta in my sig is something that would help me as scum. But since I never roll scum (which sucks because I love it) it's mostly just there to say "anything you're thinking about me based on my tone, interactions, reads, or anything else is less likely because I'm scum and more likely because you don't like my playstyle."

I sympathize with this, but that's not the full reason behind my push on you.

A lot of your posting and responses don't feel very strong in one direction or another; you agree with other people's stances in regards to Ircher, and while you do state your reasons for your read there, and your reads, a lot of your posts seem like fluff.

1274 and 1275 are examples, above the other posts I've already linked about in this ISO dig.

And yes, there is a good reason to separate them: a null read indicates generally no read or a very conflicted read; a neutral read is a mixed read, but it is not a conflicted read; there is generally a clear leaning toward town or scum in a neutral read, just not a very confident one.

Ok, that seems to be the issue here then. You say "neutral" when I would say "town/scum lean." This makes more sense now.

OK yeah, this cleared up some things for me as well when reading

Ircher's

explanation here.

Does that change your thinking on him?

Current readslist, since multiple people have asked:

Town:
Mathdino - His play is a little different than what I am used to here, but I think it's largely due to him not being super confident on who's scum. Usually he picks someone and runs them over like a truck, and while he's not doing that here, it still strikes me as town!Math.
Mutantdevle - Feeling pretty confident in town!Mutant here, largely because I agree with his reasoning and like the way he is presenting his thoughts. Seems like he's actively trying to gamesolve.
Simyk - I don't have any meta experience with Simyk, but they seem invested in gamesolving, are trying to advance the gamestate, and their tone is very towny.

Townlean:
davesaz - I wasn't sure how I felt about A50 but davesaz has moved this slot from null to townlean for me. Not as confident as I am with the townbloc above, but good vibes.
Eddie Cane - Again, not confident enough to say town for certain, but good vibes.
Myloninja13 - There really hasn't been enough from this slot to say for certain, but I'm feeling town.
Iconeum - I like what I've seen from them but need to see more active participation.
Taly - This seems like town!Taly from my meta experience.

Null:
the worst - Honestly not sure about this slot, I want to say town but feel like I can't make an unbiased opinion. Their tunneling of me could be town-motivated but I'm not crazy about the reasoning behind it; then again, I could just be mad they're tunneling me. I can't be impartial enough to figure it out yet.
The Janitor - I don't hate their posting but I'm having trouble determining whether it's a playstyle thing or actual scumminess.
Lovebird - I can't make sense of this slot either way.

Scumlean:
Ausuka - Nothing I've seen from Ausuka has struck me as particularly towny, especially the waffling/soft defense of Ircher and the defensiveness in their tone.

Scum:
Ircher - For the reasons I outlined in my last few posts.

Ehhh... just like a lot of people, there's not a lot of scumreads at the moment.

It is good that you made the readslist, it's helping progress the gamestate as I feel like it's slowing down a bit.

I didn't like that he was so against setup speccing. It didn't make sense, from a town perspective, to try to shut down any attempt at gamesolving. There's nothing inherently wrong with focusing on other people's reads, unless you are doing so to the exclusion of forming your own, which is what it seemed like he was doing.

I understand your point about the draft, however, it's really important to note that scum are not likely to pick duplicate numbers. You really can use the draft numbers to theorize about alignment because yes, while both alignments are trying to get power roles, scum are the only ones able to make a concerted effort not to step on one another's toes.

Re: your walls - your posts tend to be extremely lengthy and I have a hard time motivating myself to read them as a result. However, the one game I played with you before, you played the same way, so I don't think it's AI for you; it's just how you play.

Yes, I definitely see an associative between Ircher and Ausuka.

The explanation of his readslist doesn't really change my thinking, because a) I wasn't really basing my read on that to begin with and b) he still didn't have any strong reads, just nulls and leans. Not a problem in and of itself, but waffly, and not really that different from my original interpretation of a readslist that is largely useless.

[Lalendra]

Mathdino

mutantdevle

SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis

Ausuka

the worst

davesaz

Eddie Cane

Lalendra
Myloninja13
The Janitor

Lovebird

Iconeum
Taly

Ircher

Couldn't remember reasons for janitor town, same with mylo. Only taking out eddie and mutant because I think ausuka is scum.

...You're making reads without remembering why? And just coasting on that instead of taking new information into account?

[Lalendra]

Inclined to sheep you because you're always power-town and better at this game than I'll ever be
But curious - If you have Beefster/Taly in the same bracket in terms of probability of being scum, why did you choose one over the other?

Hardcore buddying/TMI vibes on Math if he's town. This is a response to POST ELEVEN.

Fluffposts like a mofo until

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

VOTE: Ircher

You've been tingling my scum sensors ever since your second post but I decided not to vote you because I wanted to see where the janitor wagon would go.

This post bothers me because it reacts to brass' comment as though it was supposed to be game solving. Furthermore, the question here is phrased in a way that tries to appear like its game solving itself. Honestly, this just feels like scum trying to look busy.

Add that to how Ircher seems intent on shutting down any form of setup spec and seems to focus too much on other people's reads (in my opinion) and judge them based on that. That makes me comfortable with this vote.

I am inclined to agree with everything Mutant says here but holding off on voting til I finish catching up.

Needlessly self consciously sheeping the obvious consensus

Fluffs until catchup posts, catchup posts contain nothing but randomly sheeping popular opinion and stating random non analytical things about game state

Constant buddying of Math, constant "active lurking", super generic reads


Literally a badscum iso fmpov

The thing people seem to keep forgetting when harping on my fluffposting is that we were still within hours of the game starting. It exploded over the weekend and I did my best to catch up and contribute meaningful content at that point.

[Lalendra]

so reads list is bad bc it mega generically sheeps math/eddie/simyk/taly type townreads for the most part
highly overexplains itself with incredibly shallow reasoning
poe's ausuka and ircher as their only two scum reads which like

....

if anyone thinks ausuka and ircher are scum together let's throw down a bet rn

Didn't really pay attention to anyone else's scumreads when putting that together, I literally just went through the playerlist in the mod's OP and wrote down my thoughts.

[Lalendra]

No, Lovebird is being a dick. Or is scum pretending to be bad town. Would lynch in both cases.

The Ircher wagon clearly isn't going anywhere and I'm not a fan of Lovebird's recent posting at all. I agree that either they are bad town, or they're obvscum. Slightly torn because it seems like a too-scummy-to-be-scum situation, but this slot is a liability at the very least. Add to that that this is the only wagon that is currently rivaling mine and it's a no-brainer.

VOTE: Lovebird

[Lalendra]

VOTE: lalendra

Yes, let's cast anti-town votes just to exchange information. Ugh, this town deserves to lose.

[yessiree]

Myloninja13 has been prodded.

[Myloninja13]

Oops, sorry I have been reading over this. When I'm not about to fall asleep, I'll look over it properly lol.

[yessiree]

VC 1.19

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Lalendra (6) [L-2] -

Ircher, Myloninja13, Ausuka, Lovebird, Iconeum, the worst

Lovebird (4) -

, Eddie Cane, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, Taly, Lalendra

The Janitor (2) -

Mathdino, davesaz

Ircher (1) -

mutantdevle

Not voting

- The Janitor

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-15 20:00:00)

[Lalendra]

Since I am at L-2, does the group want me to claim, or hold off?

[Mathdino]

christ it's 4 days left?

i prefer lynching you over lovebird

which sucks because i townread lovebird's wagon so much more

just claim

[mutantdevle]

No, Lovebird is being a dick. Or is scum pretending to be bad town. Would lynch in both cases.

The problem was that you were not getting your reasoning across. Give me your thoughts on Lovebird in exchange for me voting Lalendra?

lovebird null (has dropped) which is while concerning not as annoying to me rn as a scumread
if there's a genuine dichotomy in ausuka/lovebird lovebird is scum like 65% of the time I think

VOTE: lalendra

Well this is scummy...

Did you really need to bribe the worst with your vote to get this information from him? I guarantee you would have got this had you just asked. NGL this feels like a clever way to be on Lalendra's wagon whilst being somewhat against it.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Lovebird

[the worst]

No, Lovebird is being a dick. Or is scum pretending to be bad town. Would lynch in both cases.

The problem was that you were not getting your reasoning across. Give me your thoughts on Lovebird in exchange for me voting Lalendra?

lovebird null (has dropped) which is while concerning not as annoying to me rn as a scumread
if there's a genuine dichotomy in ausuka/lovebird lovebird is scum like 65% of the time I think

VOTE: lalendra

Well this is scummy...

Did you really need to bribe the worst with your vote to get this information from him? I guarantee you would have got this had you just asked. NGL this feels like a clever way to be on Lalendra's wagon whilst being somewhat against it.

Reread his iso as though hes Lalendra's partner too
honestly......regardless of her flip I think I'm running up Ico tmrw

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Lovebird

this is very likely to flip scum and has been for a while. town!lovebird is generally accurate at reading me, and when I played with scum!Lovebird, she manipulated the meta of her having caught me before and said I was scum by meta. she got caught by giving terrible reasoning for me being scum by meta last time; that's probably why she isn't giving a reason this time. and I'm definitely seeing a lovebird scumgame in this.

lalendra scumread is partially based on early uselessness; but what is also suspicious to me is the way she jumped onto the Ircher wagon. she seems to be trying to justify a scumread on Ircher to join that game; specifically the bit where she accuses Ircher of being "weirdly defensive" and comments on how Ircher would prefer Lalendra to be lynched- she seems to be suggesting the latter is a scumtell, which is especially ??? to me. The read doesn't look real. Lalendra and Lovebird are voting each other, but I believe this (distancing from each other and making it look like TvS) is probably the best move if they're scumpartners- I would advise against clearing one of being scum if the other flips scum.

I think scum!mutant is a very real possibility here. I think he's being generally townread but if you find there's scum hiding in the townreads I think you should look there.

{Taly, SIMYK, Ircher, tw, dave} would be my townreads right now (

all three scum probably here

), {math, eddie, Janitor} seem town in general but I wouldn't be surprised if any of those slots flipped scum, {Iconeum} is somewhat scummy but self-resolving, {Mylo, Mutant} are both meh, and {Lovebird, Lalendra} are my scumreads. I doubt my reads will change drastically soon, they haven't exactly been doing so recently, so these can serve as last words, if I do get vigged, which has quite a high chance.

it's definitely possible my reads are totally off; I haven't been 100% involved w/ this game, especially recently, and my play has been getting worse recently since I have less time and effort to dedicate to the game. this is the reason I haven't been posting nearly as much recently, not that I'm still upset about being assigned to be vigged without getting a say in the matter when Lovebird has done literally nothing towny the whole game, but I think I probably at least have a few things right.

pedit: I think we should just leave Iconeum alone until D3 or so, personally.

[the worst]

That puts Lalen back to L-3...

[yessiree]

VC 1.20

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Lovebird (6) [L-2] -

Eddie Cane, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, Taly, Lalendra, mutantdevle, Ausuka

Lalendra (5) -

Ircher, Myloninja13, Lovebird, Iconeum, the worst

The Janitor (2) -

Mathdino, davesaz

Not voting

- The Janitor

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-15 20:00:00)

[Lovebird]

Either Lovebird is being a town dick, or Lovebird is scum purposefully trying to be a town dick. Lynch either way.

What? How?

[Lovebird]

vote someone who is more likely to be scum?

I guess. Voting lalendra doesn't feel good. People sure she's not just lynchbaity?

VOTE: Lalendra

Lovebird, what changed? Because:

I guess I should just sheep biggest wagon or towniest players then.

Is just not town motivated

Just lynch this already

Which is it? Anti-town to be on "vanity wagon", or consolidating "not town motivated"?