Mini Normal 2289 - Postgame

[PenguinPower]

[PenguinPower]

Yeah that won't fly by me. At this point you're a camper with little to no game presence, no actual input or analysis. You offer less than Dionysus or Brickwall.

oh no, how dare i not make a post in the past 5 pages (((

have you had a chance to sort your reads?

[T3]

Dionysus - i dislike that he only tried to reevaluate his read on me after i asked him what he thought of my content today. that doesn't show a town mindset
Not_Mafia - meh
Enchant - meh, but i don't want to lim him because he claimed pr
Eiralox - they are not being rational at all and that's *concerning* but i don't really know if they have a scum agenda? i'll have to reread. either way, i don't think leaving my vote on them is productive
Cat Scratch Fever - no idea. all of her content has kinda flown past my head despite her high post count.
PenguinPower - leaning town. his conteinued support of an enchant wagon seems towny
Brickwalll - i was townreading his content from yesterday, i thought his spat with eira was towny and i'm still townreading him
furtiveglance - uhhh lean town?
VOTE: Dionysus

[T3]

T3, you have no presence, less than Dionysus and Brickwall

wait
dionysus, brickwall, and i have the lowest postcounts in the game
but we've definitely had more in thread presence than someone like penguinpower, enchant, std, or nm
which shows that you were just looking at postcounts in order to shade me
this reeks
VOTE: eiralox

[Cephrir]

i think penguinpower has had quite a bit of thread presence actually

[Alianna]

2.10

Votecount 2.10

Enchant (E-2): PenguinPower, Cephrir, Dionysus, Brickwalll
Dionysus (2): Cat Scratch Fever, Save The Dragons
T3 (2): furtiveglance, Eiralox
Not_Mafia (1): Enchant
Eiralox (1): T3

Not Voting (1): Not_Mafia

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-02-20 14:58:31).

[T3]

i think penguinpower has had quite a bit of thread presence actually

that is true but his content is severely lacking

[PenguinPower]

you aren't looking hard enough

[Cephrir]

alchemist: town for being engaged and scumhunting
cephrir: scum for no explained reason despite being more engaged and scumhunting his cute little ass off and having good analysis as stated in this very post

ok

You missed the important part where I said I liked his analysis

Infer what you will from that

i still don't love this but with alchemist having flipped town i dunno how mad i get to be about it

I am taking your perspective on Cephir seriously. For example I don't get the sense reading his ISO that he knew your alignment at all. I think it may have been genuine. Do you feel like he would have burned out sooner as scum?

i think he would have. some back story is that he's been really good at getting red PMs as of late. Like ridiculously so. So i think he's just exhausted from being scum. As he starts getting green PMs again he'll start to get more comfortable so this tell will fade in time but i think he's just pissed off at only getting to play scum recently and i think it would have shown more. i think he's attempting to play here which is not what i would expect from scum!ceph.

that is not to say he can't be scum, i'm still hesitant to lock him as town because maybe he is already over getting all those red roles. like i think after temple game, scum!ceph would make sure to be suspicious of me but then arrive at a tr of me (i don't know if he did that later part yet) but that's what i would expect to make it look like he was sorting me.

I have never played with ceph, so I have no idea what his meta is like, but this post feels a bit over-engineered and self-aware to me. Anyone agree?

i don't like the way this post seeks consensus instead of just giving an opinion

This push on Enchant seems like Alchemist is caught scum trying to divert attention away by starting a 1v1? Maybe?

Was this post an actual scumread? Because if it is then this:

VOTE: Eiralox
I think I'm gonna put my vote here for now.

is weird.

~~~~~

I've read through alchemist ISO and it isn't as townie as I remembered. The humblebrag on the scummie nomination in #222 is something I've got in the back of my mind. I think there is a decent chance they're partners. T3's reads have been a bit all over the place. I get it, day 1 is hard, but he's not a noob. His progression on alchemist for example just doesn't make sense only for him to not vote him, unless they're scum together and T3 doesn't want to vote his partner. Alchemist also replied to eiralox's post of T3's messy reads and didn't actually acknowledge this inconsistency.

i don't necessarily have a problem with one changing their mind, but the reason offered here is really underwhelming for me

VOTE: Dionysus

Talk me through your u-turn on Alchemist in D1? Specifically why your u-turn only occurred after he had 4 votes on him. Because on two separate occasions, roughly 500 posts apart, you read alchemist as town.

They then had 4 votes placed on them and then you thought they were T3’s scum partner?

Idk if I would characterise it as a u-turn. I just re-read and didn't think they were as townie as I remembered, and I thought there was a possibility he and T3 were partners. I was clearly wrong there lol. But I thought T3 was scummier than alchemist so I kept my vote on him and didn't join the alchemist wagon, which was, whether T3 is scum or not, the right call at least.

I assume based on #1266 where you discuss how many of the scumteam were on the alchemist wagon that you think I am the one or two who didn't vote for him.

Yes, potentially one of the scum not on the wagon to answer your question.

But around the 300 post mark you said they were town leaning. Again at the 800 post mark you confirmed they were town leaning. Did you not re-read here to confirm this read? Surely if by the 1200 post mark you are now seeing them as scum, you certainly would have started picking up these subtle scummy nuances between post 300 and 800, but you didn't - you just confirmed them as town?

idk man am i not allowed to just change my mind

in my opinion, you are; however, this post feels weird coming from someone who (above) has a problem with t3 changing their mind

Laughing so hard at that failed NM hammer

Some thoughts on furtive:

- #537 - this is his first explicit scumread and it took 40 posts to get there. His contributions up until this point were also mostly kind of nothing-y. A few votes here and there with light commentary, but no serious pushes on anyone.
- #544 - more meat on the bones developing from this point.
- He later agrees with frogster's top 3 townreads and his scumread on ceph in #695, although he doesn't think enchant is scum based on how they normally play, which contradicts ceph analysis.
- #1018 - a full readlist with enchant in urine colour and ceph as his highest scumread.

From here he has been pushing ceph, T3 and NM. There are two interesting things from the furtive ISO - the first thing is that it took a while for him to really get going and there was a lot of posts that didn't move the game on any. I know I have been guilty of this myself, but I am pretty inexperienced in this queue unlike him. But the most interesting thing for me in the furtive ISO is the disagreement on the enchant meta. I've never played with enchant (and sorry but I am not reading any old games lol, not got time for that) so I don't have an opinion on this myself, but this + the nullread on enchant from furtive positions him nicely as a potential scumpartner to enchant if they flip red. So ceph/penguin vs enchant/furtive + someone else. If this scumpair is legit then NM moves down my list slightly, as I don't think a hammer on your partner would have made any sense for him as a scum player at this stage, with the contributions he had made. He could have just coasted by. But doesn't rule him out with ceph/penguin if furtive turns out to be town.

reminder to myself to investigate the validity of this post

[Cephrir]

i hate the lack of post numbers in quotes post-upgrade so much

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Eiralox

That feels like a scum entrance. Why are you sheeping Dionysus onto a vote on someone who hasn't confirmed their PM?

I think this post is bad

I also am liking brickwall's most recent posts

Bad as in bad reasoning or scummy?

I'm guessing the latter - if T3 townread you but thought you were wrong they would probably say that

dunno why one would not just let t3 answer this himself

do you really expect me to find scum by page 7

How we doin here

Everyone voting wrong again

relatable

how do these two posts (page 7 and page 14) come from the same person? finding scum on page 7 is impossible, but on page 14 you can be sure enough to call basically everyone with votes town?

Yeah I think Cephrir is dodgy. Not for the Lycanfire comment about Dionysus but the way Cephrir handled my slot which his predecessor pushed on. I've caught scum replacements for having stagnant scumreads before

VOTE: Cephrir

interesting that you think scum have stagnant scumreads. when was the last time any of your reads changed meaningfully?

you've been attacking me all game for as far as i can tell, pretty much just this... i feel like if you really felt this level of conviction you should be doing more to get rid of me

You got me on board for Cephrir now

I just think he feels more similar to Temple than Warrior Cats

He's bitter rather than detached

I've been thinking about the difference

Why did you get off? and why Alchemist?

can you think of anything different about my experiences in temple vs warrior cats that might make me behave differently other than alignment

ugh i always want to scumread people who unironically scumread me in every game repeatedly without ever thinking "maybe i just don't vibe with cephrir's personality" but i'm usually wrong on that

I'd like to queue up a vote on Not_Mafia since that's probably my closest thing to a scumread that overlapped with Frogsterking's

i've seen this "queue up" idea more than once in the iso... why not just push these things then and there?

This game's become a little less interesting to me recently

I'm happy to move to Cephrir or Not_Mafia if they're gonna get more votes than T3

Does anyone have a question for me? I find it engaging to talk to specific players

other than frogsterking having scumread him, why do you suspect not_mafia?

for me, and i did go through his iso a bit ago just didn't see much worthy of comment, he just looks like not_mafia. i think he belongs in the poe and if i were lacking for suspects i'd consider going there, but as i have so many slots i feel less than stellar about, someone dead null isn't on my priority list

[Cephrir]

ick

Speaking of Townreads I forgot to mention earlier that I think Eiralox is prob Town because I don’t think scum would just walk into the thread announcing they’re gonna sheep another player and then self-vote to comically prove the point.

I think the exact opposite. I think that’s what scum could possibly do.

i think you missed it but this is a mindmeld right here

what content are you expecting from me

you also missed where i mind melded with you regarding alchemist's post

i've already been over this and gone back and forth about it, i feel no need to do so again, but i still think it's scummy

Dragons how am I supposed to realize that you're Town from your existing ISO?

you're supposed to take more than 5 seconds to read me

you don't have to solve the game D1 it's okay

i dunno if i think this mindset is consistent with how ive seen you portray your meta in other games. is reading you early impossible, or isn't it?

@std here's why ive been suspecting you even the dumb stuff

-i still think post 155 is needlessly affiliative and not good and it's strange to me the way you phrased it ("you missed that we mindmelded" just doesn't seem like a correct characterization of the events that occurred to me). perhaps you will remember "needlessly affiliative" as something i look for
-i have nothing to support this but i think you're more fun as town and you haven't really been that fun here
-i think you know that i can get tilted and i would think you would not want to activate that by greeting me with a vote and a reminder of all the reasons i feel ambivalent about mafia

i don't agree with your insistence that i can't derive any meaningful meta from a game in which i was scum. i think you were obviously town in that game. many other players were non-obviously town. this is something scum need to pay attention to to figure out where their mislims are going to come from. it's puzzling to me that you can't see the difference -- you played very differently from this there

also from now: -i dunno why you weren't feeling enchant enough to vote dionysus for no reason if he was playing exactly to your scum-enchant model you've just explained

i think these are all incorrect, i think you're just wrong about my intention with the mindmeld thing, i think my mood dictates whether I'm fun and i'm having a bad time lately, i think the voting you is NAI it doesn't make me sus it makes me a jerk as either alignment, and unless you're also scum here who knows i'm town it's not the same thing because your read would still have been biased.

the last part is the only relevant thing and i guess i was waiting to see what enchant would do but enchant continued to just troll the thread

i do think enchant is scum and i think std is not partnered with enchant probably but rereading my own post about the dionysus vote gives me some pause that maybe they could be

you seem rather muted this game furtive

so do you

[Save The Dragons]

im not feelin it lately

[Cephrir]

Cephrir's reaction to Frogster's deathtunnel does not feel like exasperated town at all

where did this read go?

I think it would be best if votes are applied there.

(this is in response to me questioning the initial empty eiralox vote)
trajectory on eiralox since this has been believable but i still don't get the beginning
(don't try to click the arrow to go to this post, i fucked my quote up)

[Cephrir]

bluh

for now i guess i'll VOTE: Dionysus

[Cat Scratch Fever]

People still voting Enchant, do you simply not believe his claim?

[PenguinPower]

i'm actually not sure that i do...

but

VOTE: dionysus

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: dionysus

VOTE: enchant

Anything in particular make you want to move back to Enchant here?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Your suggestion that I am not trying to understand T3's mindset can be put back to you about me: I have clearly struggled at points to remain fully engaged with this game for reasons I've stated already and don't want to get bogged down with. Consider the plausibility that what I've said is true when you next try to work out my alignment because it might help shed a different light on what I've said.

ok, why should I townread you?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@Dionysus, in general, you've given some thoughts on people when you've been asked of them. But I read these thoughts and the conclusions just feel really shaky to me.

You have Enchant, Eiralox, Cephrir, Penguin, maybe Brickwall and Not_Mafia as scum in 1491. And then who knows, maybe furtive is scum with Enchant as well! 1601

That's literally half the game, more than half if you exclude yourself. It really reads to me like you're deliberately keeping your scumpool open and are avoiding committing to real stances 1500.

You're also really reactive, both with your votes (not moving your vote off T3 until your scumread T3 prompts you to reconsider it) and in how you interact with the thread

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Uh.... Why not Brickwall?

Their posts generally feel solvy and genuine to me. 1566 is an example:

I’ll just answer now. Was watching something but the episode ended.

At first I thought your question was silly because STDs actions don’t impact mine. But, upon reflection it is actually a great question and made me pause and think.

Him moving on to Dion does actually make me reconsider. Reading Dion’s ISO he mentioned this is his first time in NY. So whilst I am guilty of always trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, this does make me reconsider my thoughts on Dion. Especially after their response in 1514, and more particularly 1519, I’m inclined to think Dion may be town. Despite me pushing them quite heavily D2 I must retract for now.

I would be more inclined for Enchant or STD.

UNVOTE:

The bolded suggests Brick is not only thinking about

how

to answer your question but

why

you made your question. In essence, I think he was subtly trying to sort you [Eiralox] and evaluate whether you had a good reason for asking your question. Trying to answer "how" is what scum are more preoccupied with (especially newer scum players), but thinking about "why" is town indicative

[Not_Mafia]

i'm actually not sure that i do...

but

VOTE: dionysus

It synergises with my role, I believe it

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mafia vanilla cop?

[Not_Mafia]

You cheeky scamp

[furtiveglance]

We should promote synergy as a town