Newbie 2093 | New Wave | Postgame

[TTTT]

@TTTT

147 - I thought Take has already said that they did not assume that. Like I'm pretty sure they clarified immediately after.

please show me cuz I missed that

[CornPuffBuddha]

@TTTT

147 - I thought Take has already said that they did not assume that. Like I'm pretty sure they clarified immediately after.

please show me cuz I missed that

72

[TTTT]

oh, so after I pointed it out
yeah that doesn't count

[TTTT]

the only Italiano posts that look scummy to me are 71 and 86

other than those I like his play so far

[Takemikazuchi02]

@TTTT

I'm tired of the bullshit greeting tell so I agree to drop this subject. Just know I will automatically dismiss any use of this "tell"

60 doesn't assume anywhere that you're town. I don't know where you get this from.

[ItalianoVD]

84 and 86 were the start, and since then he's kind of played up to the 'secret plan' shtick.

84 was straightforward
86 was weird

Yeah 86 was just ego and shouldn’t have been said. Apologies.

[CornPuffBuddha]

oh, so after I pointed it out
yeah that doesn't count

I never interpreted that post as assuming you're town anyways so I just saw that post as clarifying it for you. I don't know what's complicated here.

[furtiveglance]

I did see it as assuming TTTT was town, but didn't find it scummy nonetheless. Town can assume people are town.

[ItalianoVD]

@TTTT

147 - I thought Take has already said that they did not assume that. Like I'm pretty sure they clarified immediately after.

please show me cuz I missed that

72

So 72 was for TTTT? I thought that was directed at me for 71.

[TTTT]

What's the point of putting Aspho at E-2 when she won't be here for the next two days to respond? And during RVS too.

What's the point of putting Aspho at E-2 when she won't be here for the next two days to respond? And during RVS too.

it's not intended to get a response from Aspho
lots of other good reasons to get an early wagon here
for starters nobody cares about a wagon until E-2
as we can see already from the comments following my vote

Everyone can see what you're doing though so we're not gonna get good information out of this.

town!T02 would be reading the game trying to sort players as scum or town
town!T02 would see TTTT's vote on a player going RVS and wonder if TTTT's motivation for something that looked like a bad play was from a town or scum perspective
scum!T02 would know TTTT is town and so not address the possibility of scum!TTTT

the assumption that my motive in voting Aspho to E-2 while on VLA was to "get good information" possibly reveals an informed perspective
I say possibly because it isn't a slam dunk
town does this sometimes

[TTTT]

I can't lie
Italiano's gamesolve of T02 and CornPuff looks more and more tempting

[ItalianoVD]

Notice my response in 73 94 and 111. Hmm. If that wasn’t directed at me then I can remove that out of my list of what I scumread Take on. If so, my bad, apologies for the mixup.

[TTTT]

take my last post with a huge grain of salt
it's page 8 and there I would be surprised if there isn't scum in the less active players

[ItalianoVD]

Notice my response in 73 94 and 111. Hmm. If that wasn’t directed at me then I can remove that out of my list of what I scumread Take on. If so, my bad, apologies for the mixup.

This was for 183

[TTTT]

Italiano
you said earlier you haven't read the whole game
have you done that at this point?

[TTTT]

T02 talk to me about someone other than Italiano
who else was in that last game with you
and how do you read them right now?
(I'll read it later when I get a chance)

@T02
or really talk to me about anything other than Italiano, the newbscum greeting tell, or my vote on Aspho
not really interested in those topics atm

@TTTT

I'm tired of the bullshit greeting tell so I agree to drop this subject. Just know I will automatically dismiss any use of this "tell"

60 doesn't assume anywhere that you're town. I don't know where you get this from.

give me more
I want your thoughts on the game and it's players
not grandstanding on a topic nobody wants to discuss

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Italiano

No it was directed at TTTT

@TTTT

I didn't adress the possibility you being scum because your play could easily be from town or maf. You could have been town doing a suboptimal play or maf trying to look pro-town. and I was literally the first person to question why you were voting on Aspho too.

[TTTT]

Out of the active people (Italiano, Take, abdbla, Corn, BigTerp), Most town for me are Take and Terp.

I know you said "gut" is why you are TRing BigTerp
I respect that
but can you try and break it down a bit more for me?

[TTTT]

@T02

give me more
I want your thoughts on the game and it's players

[Asphodelus]

Good Day Fam,

I hope you all had a great easter! Mine was filled with family and that was a thing.

Anyways, back to the game:

I feel like a lot of page 2, after I left, is just a lot of 'well, what's your experience'. While fun and entertaining to read, there's not much to comment on in my eyes.

Page 3 is definitely interesting!

@abdbla

- I take it the reason you didn't vote for me even though you wanted too was because I wasn't going to be here to defend any point or be able to say much. It does make sense, though, I think I agree with

TTTT

with the idea of Voting V/LA players anyhow.

@TTTT

- I definitely get the reasoning. You were curious to see if anyone would react or wonder why. Cool plan, though I feel like that required knowing what the result was pulling. Throwing Darts at a wall and hoping something sticks is a fairly inefficient way of playing darts. I completely agree with

@T02

in 60. It's really obvious, and wouldn't work as bait. If anything, it just seems like an attempt at doing something so far. Or, basically, 76 and 77


Though,

@abdbla

57 I just wasn't here; I went from starting the game to immediately having to go do things for Easter. I do apologize, and will be here moving forward.

@CornPuffBUdha

and

@BigTerp

- 106 to 110: Oh good lord. Are we going back to the whole 'writing one big post isn't indicative of activity' thing from last game? I'm glad some other people don't see mass posting as better than the big post thing. I just think this is legitimately a playstyle thing, and not a alignment indicative trait. Or, put another way, the player determines how they want to post, not the role they have.

Oh hey, we're doing another mathematical fallacy. Does anyone hear frikkin pigeons.

78 and 121

Welcome to the correlation does not imply causation fallacy! The issue here is there is no bloody way to tell between what a

player does

vs

what the role is

. Saying that something as benign as greeting the thread is correlated, and hence caused by being scum is legitimately just this meme.

Spoiler: Correlation is not Causation

There's probably an actual statement here which could be: Players that

are not

Vanilla Townies tend to be more engaged in a game, and thus, want to participate more. That would genuinely be a proper conclusion to have -- the bastardized version is legitimately ice cream sales cause shark attacks.

-------------

Okay, and with that, I want to go into a talk about what 'meta' is because of 102 and 150.

Meta is the short form for 'metagame', at least within a gaming context. Its etymology in this line is "Beyond the Game" or "Game about the Game". I feel like a lot of people, and not even in Town of Sale but higher E-Sport games like League and Overwatch, fall into the trap that the 'metagame defines the game'.

It's the other way around: A Metagame is the best available strategy for a game to be solved -- thus necessitating the game (and its current patch) to determine what it's meta is -- hence why games like Smash, League and everything else changes per patch or new characters that come out. Even more importantly, with games like the ones listed above: It is not determined by mathematical standards

only

. It's determined by how those at the high end of the game play it -- and thus define the meta.

The inherent implication of something like this is as follows: .

If you aren't playing the game in it's most effective tactics, you are not following the meta.

Or, in it's inverse:

A player must be aware of the Meta(game) to be using it.

This is the reason why low level chess games, low elo league games are so scuffed and have strange things happen that don't happen in proper games, you have to be aware of the meta to be following it -- it's an unspoken rule and agreement with all players if they play their tactics right.

Tactics however do not account for social situations: It doesn't matter how much you can 1v9 as Irelia, if your Jungle Teemo and ADC Tahm Kench is failing and flaming, you aren't going to win, not because of the meta, but because of the social aspects. It helps to think of it that games like Diplomacy, Crusader Kings (Multiplayer), Civilization and anything that involves _diplomatic missions_ doesn't have a proper meta. It just has good spots and places to begin, but everyone is aware the game is going to be random.

In a game like Mafia, there is only a true 'tactic' within games like Town of Salem which are inherently more about power roles is the stupid 'whisper mayor' meta or 'jailor, tplo' on me. None of these are social tells, but power tells.

In a game where it's 5 vanilla vs 2 scum vs 1-2 PR, you're going to be relying on social graces. Ironically enough, that kind of means knowing how people play in previous games is the only actual meta. I'm quite curious to know how a game of Mafia would go if everyone was using a proxy account, and thus had no previous games for other players to read off of. It'd probably be a mafia victory.


-----

I only mention it because I simply do not understand what ItalianoVD is doing. I get TTTT and T02; they're basically slinging shit at each other and trying to see what sticks. Honestly, with how this game is going, I'm convinced they're both actually town but weird. Italiano, however, is basically following the TTTT strategy but... just not explaining anything. It begins with 'i solved the game' and devolves into 'well, i dont want the game to end, so I'm going to pick on this guy'. From a tactical standpoint, the play is legitimately insane. However, everyone bringing him to E-1 (I guess me included, but I believe I was the first person to do so in the first page). Reading their posts in ISO though, I believe they are legitimately town though. I am well aware that both Scum and Town would benefit from pushing the game state along, but my thought process goes into a line of 'scum need to play way more carefully rather than being single focused since a single focused assault is generally going to point the finger at them when their target eventually proves town'. In that line, a useful tactic for anyone playing in that line is to push a bandwagon that already started than begin one on their own (hence the whole thing about mafia tend to be either the third or fourth person in an elim).

So, following that in my head, and just with how the thread is going, there are two people who fit my criteria for not being in this game or pushing things along without committing. I'm going to go with the one my gut picks:
VOTE: Val89

[TTTT]

I get TTTT and T02; they're basically slinging shit at each other and trying to see what sticks.

please point out where T02 "slings shit" at me
that's not how I'm reading the game

[Takemikazuchi02]

I played with Aspho, Corn and Abdbla. I'm too tired by Italiano to go reread it and compare it to this game so off the top of my head.

Aspho:

Was town. Hasn't said much this game so can't comment.

Corn:

Was maf. I figured him out because he kept using faulty logic and uncharitable interpretations of other people's post. He doesn't seem to be doing that this game so far.

Abdbla:

Was maf. Got in an altercation with me similar to the one I had with Italiano this game where he kept using insanely stupid arguments. Has been less active than in the first game but that could be because of easter. His playstyle doesn't seem to have changed much but I don't think its alignment indicative so far.

[Asphodelus]

Good Day

TTTT

,

54 60 72 179

Please note: My definition of 'fling shit' is 'bickering', not 'i accuse you of being scum'.

The actual scumpointing is between T02 and Italiano.

P-edit:

196 Apologies, I was enjoying easter with the family.

[TTTT]

got it
thanks

[TTTT]

Aspho
thanks for the unnecessary lecture series on mathematical fallacies
if you are all so interested in this topic
there's a thread where you can discuss it further