Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Bins]

And what do you think that means in terms of LLD's alignment?

Nothing much, I just thought it would make them buddies.


And the Titus thing I can't say because it's related to other games, but after consulting with team and myself thinking it over, it definitely isn't enough to not scumread her.

[Bins]

@Titus: Get off Bins. She's an Aronis-level read for me. Remember Night and Day. You know what that means. Join me on A50 for great justice!

VOTE: A50

My team really wants to work with you, so I will do that since they have read the game. My initial impression is there is something drastically wrong in Tbone and Bins. RC team might be scum as well as scum RC tends to exaggerate and attack me when I am correct.

something something survivalist votes something something




I'm going to look at Key's Elena post when I have time. Right now I have a midterm. But I would love to end this day lynching Titus-slot as well, so yeah.

Math. I swear to gosh momo flip is not enough to stonewall the a50 lynch and I really can't see how you think a50 is town worthy of defending (Sorry a50)

[Almost50]

What changed your mind on Bins specifically?

Can't talk about it explicitly, but let's just say there are many types of players. Player A uses "the extra knowledge they have from their team PT" to form their reads, and are not even careful enough about it. This kind will give an explicit TR on someone in their own game based on that extra knowledge. (Then it might be a meta thing and they don't think X would take a Scum role even if their team rolled 3 red PMs, so there's that).

Player B will also take such knowledge into account, but will NOT be so explicit. These are the more careful players, who will finesse by SRing X knowing they're likely Town based on their extra knowledge, and TR Y giving you a false impression about what their extra knowledge might be.

Player C is one who doesn't even take that extra knowledge into account at all. They're basically playing IN THIS GAME and nothing else.

Suffice it to say that the BIGGEST problem is how to classify most players, and thus decide whether the reads based on their reads should be relied on.

I hope this gives you a clear idea of how I'm going about it, because I really can't clarify any further w/o going borderline on breaking the rules, and I just don't want to get force replaced.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: havingfitz

It's not Titus.

I think I might have an idea why you switched here, but I want you to say it.

Multiple things went into that.
1. Saw the votecount, didn't wanna vanity wagon someone.
2. Lynching fitz has significantly less negative risk than lynching LLD. If LLD were replaced by some all-star town player who never goes scum, I might have re-thought that position. But the risk of town-LLD is the main reason I didn't consider voting there.
3. Bins went after Titus and I was pretty deeply scumreading Bins at the time (for those of you not reading, again, I tactically chose not to out that read).
4. LLDslot flip is higher info than Transcendslot flip (who I'm pretty sure just flips town anyway).
5. I wanted the fitz wagon to take off as an effective counterwagon to Titus.

you're missing the point. Do you think people want you dead just because you self-voted?
Do you think every situation where a person self-votes is the same, for that matter?
The fact that you're trying to use this to make yourself look good its pretty terrible tbh.
Thank you for confirming you're scum.

what the fuck even is this post
calling bins/LLD/radja tbh
maybe bins/elena/radja
disclaimer: i am saying this not to base reads around it but rather to be incredibly baller if i'm right

This is bad. I mean, really bad. Math, please tell me you know how bad this is.

Seems realistic to me. Radja townread was literally based off like the first 3 pages and suddenly it became a universally agreed upon thing.
This "Gotcha" shit is horrible, and I think you're biased because you were already townreading Radja and you agree with him on A50. But that was a super classic blusterful A50 defence, and I don't think Radja is even attempting to get through to A50. It's predatory questioning.

That's all if you think the Radja shade was bad. If you think me calling the scumteam like that is bad, dunno what to tell you. Bins/LLD/Elena/Radja were my scumreads at that point, and there had been multiple times where I was asked to find possible scumpartners for my scumreads. There wasn't anything INconsistent about Radja being scum with them, so I shot from the hip.

That team idea isn't something I'm actually pushing, nor do I think there are strong associatives between Radja and the others. That just happened to be the first time this whole game that I cmae up with 3 scumreads that actually could maybe work together.

The fact that you're trying to use this to make yourself look good its pretty terrible tbh.
Thank you for confirming you're scum.

it is possible i am overreacting to your overreaction

YA THINK?

Possible. Still a super strong ping.
My team kinda checked out a couple days ago (coinciding with a bunch of night phases) so the flaws in my ability to read people haven't been checked by them yet. Reads may shift with their input.

Like, he literally crumbed that his team in reality got 4 town PMs and 1 scum PM before momo flipped scum, and that he was left to choose between the 4 because his team didn't want him taking the scum PM on paranoia. Reads should change with new information.

And he couldn't be lying because?

I'm not some dope who thinks "Hey guys I'm town" makes someone town. This is where reading people comes in. His entire narrative about his team composition and the choices they had between the games makes sense, is consistent with what I know of A50, and really comes together after his teammate's scumflip. This all combined with tournament knowledge that I haven't been able to fully share.
If we ever lynch A50, it needs to be lategame with more knowledge than we have now. There are a few particular things that could happen that could wreck his credibility and would make me turn. But they're not gonna happen here, or soon, or even before the end of D2 most likely.

Oh and suddenly now that you're scumreading me, you can talk about how Shea doesn't like my trajectory and Reck is begging chesskid to take a second look, which is real funny after calling me town as fuck during your catchup.

It's almost like your read on me is more for political reasons than actual desire to scumhunt.

I believe he had been scumreading you for awhile.

I ISO'd Radja and found 0 evidence of this. As you saw, Radja flipped around after I threw shade, and then used hilariously bullshit reasons like:
- Reck thinks you couldn't have talked to KMD because of KMD's work schedule! (LOLWAT)
- It sounds like you faked all your interaction with your teammates including all their reads! (SCUMGOD MATHDINO RIGHT?)
- Your scum motivation for shading me is that I'm town and you want to mislynch me! (oh yeah solid OMGUS after I specifically said I don't wanna lynch Radja)
- Your hard-defence of A50 means you know he's gonna flip town (yeah fuck me guess I shouldn't say anything at all right)

It's a political 180. This shit is either made up or the result of a bad tunnel on the first person to start scumreading him. I haven't seen any moon logic that comes from town more than scum yet, so I have little reason to think this is a towntunnel.

@Bulba: I get the feeling that A50 didn't truly think he was throwing.

It's like my whole point flew over your head.

Have you or your team ever played with A50 before? I actually see where you're coming from here and I think context is important. A50 does manipulative things as town.

I looked over your continued reasons and I think you're scumreading A50 for similar reasons I've seen others do so in the past. My team noted that if it were anyone else, they'd lynch it with fire, but GL and KMD have had experiences with him that make them both throw their hands up and avoid trying to read too deep into his actions at all.

I personally think it's town. But more than that, I think A50 is a horrible D1 lynch.

[Mathdino]

Almost50:
Me and Chara talked over almost 50 for a little and we're both confident on calling him town we talked over town meta (thought it was best to not go over scum)
and what we got is
1) The fact A50 is trying to run bins up and claim is...stupid but it's something town A50 does to help solve the game
2) the begging to be lynched thing is...quite nai he's done it as scum but he also does it as town for reasons he's already shown (I showed chara quotes and I'm not gonna say why he did it but we both have an idea)
3) A50 isn't someone who is really comfortable being tr by the playerlist like this
"the things A50 are getting sr for aren't things you should sr him for because it's a50"~Chara
Chara knows what they'd be sring A50 for and so far he's not doing it (the opposite actually)
Along with a few other things me and Chara are very comfortable calling A50 town

Anyone who thinks A50 is scum (as I saw before

Chara is by far the most likely person in this tournament to be able to soulread A50.

Sheep this shit guys. You don't get to sometimes use meta and sometimes not.

And yeah I'm still scumreading Elena. I just don't think scum-Chara would make up a meta-based-townread on scum-A50. I trust this regardless of Elena's alignment.

[Almost50]

Math. I swear to gosh momo flip is not enough to stonewall the a50 lynch and I really can't see how you think a50 is town worthy of defending (Sorry a50)

It is. Accept it. You're just not in full synchronization of how we're going about his competition as a whole, me and Math. I just am

Vanilla Townie

just like I had claimed ages ago.

[Mathdino]

It's actually pretty interesting how the players with significantly less cross-game influence and teamwork are the ones calling my hard-defence dogshit.

Similar thing applies to Titus. A50, get back to me about Titus's slot as soon as you can after reading over the whole competition. Not like the WHOOOLE competition but you'll figure it out.

[Bulbazak]

Re: A50: Feel free to get in the line for "People getting wigged out by Math tunneling people as town". Like, either you believe I'm hard-defending a scumbuddy, or you should believe A50 town regardless of my alignment. And if it's a choice between lynching A50 and another person I consider townish, I'd rather A50 alive for having better reads as the game goes on.

It's the sudden hard defense with little to no good reason. It's like a switch flipped somewhere, and that fact that I can't reconcile Math position A to Math position B makes me uneasy. Do I scumread you? No, but it dinged that hard townread I had.

Almost50:
Me and Chara talked over almost 50 for a little and we're both confident on calling him town we talked over town meta (thought it was best to not go over scum)
and what we got is
1) The fact A50 is trying to run bins up and claim is...stupid but it's something town A50 does to help solve the game
2) the begging to be lynched thing is...quite nai he's done it as scum but he also does it as town for reasons he's already shown (I showed chara quotes and I'm not gonna say why he did it but we both have an idea)
3) A50 isn't someone who is really comfortable being tr by the playerlist like this
"the things A50 are getting sr for aren't things you should sr him for because it's a50"~Chara
Chara knows what they'd be sring A50 for and so far he's not doing it (the opposite actually)
Along with a few other things me and Chara are very comfortable calling A50 town

Anyone who thinks A50 is scum (as I saw before

I know you're going to have a hard time with this, but try to follow me for a moment. Regardless of whether A50 can do this as town in a regular game means nothing, because this isn't any ordinary game. This is Team Mafia. Try as hard as you can to diminish that fact, it plays a significant role in how people will play this game, and A50 has already acknowledged this when he tried to look like he was contributing by yelling about people going V/LA. He admits that the competition itself is affecting how he's approaching the game. Now look back to that AtE of his from earlier. With that in mind, does town A50 do that, knowing that the competition is on the line and that every action of his is being taken into consideration by a committee of judges to determine whether his team wins or loses? With all that, does town A50 threaten to self lynch and cripple his team's chances of winning? The answer is no. Now scum A50 would do that. He would answer pressure and questioning glances by putting on a show. And that's all it was: a show. One that served scum him more than it ever would town him, especially in these circumstances. No matter how often A50 tries to reposition the argument into one of whether he would throw the game as scum (I never said that) or about self-voting (it's never been about the vote itself, but about the intention behind why he would threaten to self-vote), that's what the push on him is about. There is no way that A50 does what he does as town. Ever.

P-edit: I'll read the Math stuff later. Reminder to self to do so.

[Almost50]

@Bulba: When you get a chance, be a pal and get Mastina to read me, and even focus on my latest posts. Not only will she correctly peg me, but she's likely to explain to you what I'm doing exactly.

[Mathdino]

@Bulba's 1782:

1. Part of this switch in my brain has to do with my thoughts on the whole competition. I understand that you can't grok it right now. It's hard to explain. It mostly happened after momo's scumflip. And there's something I really want to say about how A50 and his team have been interacting (that I've been going over with my team) that I literally can't explain to you. You're not gonna be satisfied unless other games start ending.

2. Yes, town A50 would do that. Yes. I don't know what the problem you have here is. I haven't seen scum A50, no, but I know more than enough about town A50 to say YES JESUS CHRIST HE DOES DUMB SHIT LIKE THAT SOMETIMES.

You're trying to juxtapose a contradiction in A50's mindset between:
A. Threatening to throw the game and self-lynch.
B. Caring so much about the game and the tournament that he shames people for not participating.

I'm not gonna generate a narrative of A50 for you because I do think he should be the one to explain that, but his progression this game

has. made. sense.

"There is no way that A50 does what he does as town. Ever."
Jesus dude you sound like mastina when she's utterly wrong. A50 is fucking low hanging fruit.

[Aeronaut]

@Aero: Did you actually read any of the Team Mafia rules?

Yeah, all of them. There an issue?

Yeah, given that scum having day chat is in the Team Mafia rule set.

Oh, for some reason I thought it was something that could change depending on the game. I mean if anything, that just confirms that my point of view re: Titus's shift is more plausible.

[Mathdino]

Like, this game is so fucked right now by the lack of participation and lack of teamwork going on between these slots and their teams. There should be more discussion happening behind the scenes since this became THE game to talk about Choose Your Side meta and team composition and cross-tournament behaviour, and it's just not happening because half the game isn't here.

So people come up with shit reads and I look like shit for attacking them without explaining myself, because "DAE THINK MATH KNEW TITUS/A50 WAS TOWN CUZ HE'S SCUM???". No, my reads fucking make sense if you read the entire tournament, but half this game

isn't even reading this game.

Get your teammates who've had scumflips in their games to READ THIS GAME IN FULL. And hopefully to read other games too.

[Elena Fisher]

I know you're going to have a hard time with this, but try to follow me for a moment. Regardless of whether A50 can do this as town in a regular game means nothing, because this isn't any ordinary game. This is Team Mafia. Try as hard as you can to diminish that fact, it plays a significant role in how people will play this game, and A50 has already acknowledged this when he tried to look like he was contributing by yelling about people going V/LA. He admits that the competition itself is affecting how he's approaching the game. Now look back to that AtE of his from earlier. With that in mind, does town A50 do that, knowing that the competition is on the line and that every action of his is being taken into consideration by a committee of judges to determine whether his team wins or loses? With all that, does town A50 threaten to self lynch and cripple his team's chances of winning? The answer is no. Now scum A50 would do that. He would answer pressure and questioning glances by putting on a show. And that's all it was: a show. One that served scum him more than it ever would town him, especially in these circumstances. No matter how often A50 tries to reposition the argument into one of whether he would throw the game as scum (I never said that) or about self-voting (it's never been about the vote itself, but about the intention behind why he would threaten to self-vote), that's what the push on him is about. There is no way that A50 does what he does as town. Ever.

I understand this line of thinking but I don't really think that's what A50 had in mind regardless of the tourament I more so think it was a way to catch on to people who may jump on his wagon I think you're looking into this too much or giving him a lot more credit than needed. I don't think A50 thought he was putting anyone into jeopardy the point I think you don't get is

A50 was never really going to lynch himself

if he was that'd be a whole dif story so I think your argument is false on that merit I think he just wanted to see what would happen if he did that and even if he

was

scum let's say for the sake of argument he wouldn't try to get himself lynched either. in no world does a50 try to get lynched here

[Elena Fisher]

He wasn't trying to be genuine
he wasn't trying to lynch himself
It was an act. What that act was trying to accomplish is the selling point here and given what me and Chara have talked over it is coming from town A50

[Mathdino]

People that I want reading this game and others if they have time:

Creature
Espeonage
Spiffeh (EMPHASIS)
Katyusha
RayBells (should be cross-referencing games, I haven't seen him do that yet)
Firebringer (ESPECIALLY)
Fenchurch
SleepyKrew
Boonskiies
mastina (where is she?)
Chara
Kagami
Katsuki
Shea/Keely/Reck aren't using the full tournament yet, they should be

[Mathdino]

He wasn't trying to be genuine
he wasn't trying to lynch himself
It was an act. What that act was trying to accomplish is the selling point here and given what me and Chara have talked over it is coming from town A50

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE I CAN EMPHASISE THIS.

A50 is a manipulative little shit as

both alignments

.

I nullread the initial "lynch me guys" thing but with the benefit of hindsight and extra information, A50 is town, and the players outside of this game who claim actual experience with A50 back it up.

Pick someone else to lynch. Ideally LLDslot.

[Titus]

He wasn't trying to be genuine
he wasn't trying to lynch himself
It was an act. What that act was trying to accomplish is the selling point here and given what me and Chara have talked over it is coming from town A50

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE I CAN EMPHASISE THIS.

A50 is a manipulative little shit as

both alignments

.

I nullread the initial "lynch me guys" thing but with the benefit of hindsight and extra information, A50 is town, and the players outside of this game who claim actual experience with A50 back it up.

Pick someone else to lynch. Ideally LLDslot.

I sympathize with your frustrations. I simply do not have time to read 5 threads before nightfall and keep up with work. I am doing what I am best at, which is wagon analysis.

I am lukewarm on lynching A50. I am there to work with my team who wants us working with Bulba. I would rather lynch TBone here.

Note Elena falls down a bit for the doubtcast to weak town.

[Titus]

VC here

[Titus]

Ok that's me wanting a request. Please add a please.

[Mathdino]

Titus, your team should be backing you up on this. Specifically Eddie Cane, who I believe has the relevant information to do so. Katyusha would also be good, I trust her reads (despite the shit reads we both had in NSG's game )

I don't expect any of the replace-ins to read the entire tournament. Don't worry about that. But I do expect people to have faith that when the players who HAVE read the whole tournament have weird unexplainable reads and theories, that it's actually based on something substantial.

The main tourneybased reads I have are on you, A50, UCV, Bins, and CHESSKID. Everyone else I'm reading primarily off this game only.

So catch up in this game, tell us what you think, and I'll tell you if a couple things are nulled on a tournament basis (and unless you start tunneling A50 and UCV, I think we'll be good).

[Elena Fisher]

People that I want reading this game and others if they have time:

Creature
Espeonage
Spiffeh (EMPHASIS)
Katyusha
RayBells (should be cross-referencing games, I haven't seen him do that yet)
Firebringer (ESPECIALLY)
Fenchurch
SleepyKrew
Boonskiies
mastina (where is she?)
Chara
Kagami
Katsuki
Shea/Keely/Reck aren't using the full tournament yet, they should be

Chara is reading along trust me and does not want a50 lynched

[Elena Fisher]

Titus slot for me is hard cause it's like

Eddie was a hard tr for me
transcend comes in makes it worse
titus comes in not much better
so ehhhh

[Mathdino]

Eddie was an initial scumread followed by a later townread after the blow-up.

Transcend made my team hard townread that slot.

Titus is adopting an insurmountable task of catching up in Team Fucking Mafia 2018. I don't trust Raybells's (or anyone's) ability to read Titus off like a dozen posts in a situation like this.

A specific thing happened that makes me seriously question the Transcend part of my read.

But in order to do that, I need someone familiar with Transcend meta.

The people scumreading Transcend so far have not demonstrated any familiarity. So I'm waiting on that, and until then, I'm not lynching Titus.

[Elena Fisher]

@A50....is "literally not knowing them" the only reason you are voting CDB?

It was my RVS vote, so what reasoning would you have expected?

@A50...have you ever crumbed as scum before? Have you ever crumbed VT before?

I believe I gave multiple examples to my crumbs/claims before. I don't think I crumbed as Scum before, no.

Chara is wondering what you mean says you've faked crumbed before in games like deathnote

[mhsmith0]

.