Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[UC Voyager]

I'm townreading both of them to be clear. Definitely not an OMGUS lol. I think I townread Luca moreso than Moz... hence that comment.

oh. didn see this.

[UC Voyager]

Finally caught up. Here's where I'm at as far as reads. Not going to post a ton of rationale since I need to get back to work (on lunch right now), but most of it is in my previous posts from the past hour. Feel free to question anything in particular that doesn't jive and I'll explain.

Town

to

Null

to

Scum

:

Sesq, Moz

UCV*, Luca, Cy

----slight

Laser*, Comm

----leaning town

CoA*, Arch('s slot)*

----leaning scum

Lucky, Zaraki

*indicates a need for more content. Don't feel great about these reads.

lol. why did i think this said you were scum reading moz and Luca...... my bad. i miss read

[Lucky2u]

You had no reasoning, just guesswork. There is no particular reason for you to believe Comm is lying about fishing for reactions, and given that everyone fishes for reactions to some degree in RVS you really need to have something to make your vote hold water.

Youre still not providing an example, because you can't provide one. We are just evaluating people's reactions in interactions and deciding ourselves wether it's coming from scum or town. Let's turn this around Luca, we are several pages in, what are your reads and why? **disclaimer, I will be using your own logic to your reads, so unless you read the entire playlist as null, I'll expect you to defend your opinions against "There is no particular reason for you to believe that X is Y"

This is kind of irrational and not town-productive. You must know that you would never get the level of rationale you required in 89. Why are you pretending like it was a fair request? And how would you define "Luca logic"?

That's the point though. He was never going to be able to provide me an example of solid proof in a nightless vanilla game, yet he was disagreeing with me because I didn't have this thing that literally cannot exist. There will be no cop guilty level proof, so we have to read things and make our opinion. I made my opinion, he disagreed with it for a nonsense reason.

[Lucky2u]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.6

CommKnight(3)

~ cytheflyguy, Zulfy, Lucky2u

mozamis(2)

~ Impede, CultOfAthena

Lucky2u(2)

~ Sesq, CommKnight

Impede(2)

~ Luca Blight, mozamis

Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez(1)

~ LaserGuy


Not Voting (2): Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez, UC Voyager

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-12-02 21:30:00)

FLAVOR

This is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.

Performed 10 calls in 2 seconds. With an average of 0.2571 seconds per call.

Vote count won't come for another six hours or more after this one. Yay phone vote counts.

Edited only to fix vote count number as I can't count/didn't update the autocounter

[Impede]

lol. why did i think this said you were scum reading moz and Luca...... my bad. i miss read

All good lol. I definitely agree that confbias is a town move. Hence why I'm accusing my strongest town read of being guilty of it.

[Impede]

Oh hell RVS is over. Need to remove this.
UNVOTE:

[Impede]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

I don't think that's what he was getting at. I think he was cautioning you from making a scum read on something that is heavily WIFOM-laden

[Lucky2u]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

I don't think that's what he was getting at. I think he was cautioning you from making a scum read on something that is heavily WIFOM-laden

I'm obviously taking it to the extreme but I don't feel my reason for voting comm was wifom at all

[Impede]

I'm obviously taking it to the extreme but I don't feel my reason for voting comm was wifom at all

How is it not? Scum!Comm could be trying to distract from actual scum and Town!Comm could be reaction fishing. Both of these are equally legitimate possibilities, esp since we were so close to RVS. Do you disagree?

[Impede]

Luca has a really good play style. i have seen him figure out who the scum is several times. He takes a good approach to the game as well. What he is doing now isn confbias. if he was confbias, he would probably be on me right now.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73370
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73677
these are some examples of when i confbias. confbias generally doesn't happen til nylo or mylo.

@UCV

: Just to be super clear, I think we understand each other now more or less, but don't want you to think incorrectly. I was referring to Sesq with the confbias comment. In fact I don't think I've addressed Luca directly much at all. Also, what is "NYLO"? Typo?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

NYLO I would presume means No-lynch and lose.

[Impede]

NYLO I would presume means No-lynch and lose.

Ah, so same as LYLO then.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Except NYLO isn't until the third day w/o votes, on which our votes will implode and kill us all.

[LaserGuy]

@Laser:

why do I look scummy?

In this type of game, I feel it is very likely there is going to be a lot of SvS infighting early on. You and Lucky's interaction has this vibe to me... you start with a discussion about Comm's intentions, but very quickly Comm is sidelined out of the discussion without any really input from him and you proceed to tunnel each other for the next six pages. The fact that Comm actually commented on your discussion at #100 and neither of you either asked him a question or wanted him to weigh in seems to suggest that neither of you are really interested in Comm at all. This is particularly unsettling since as of #172 don't actually think Lucky is scum, in which case it's not clear to me why you've spent so much energy on this. I'm leaning SvS on this whole interaction.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

Impede's catch-up was pretty decent and I no longer want to lynch him today.

My preferred lynch today is UCV. I have experience with him and know his style well - this really feels like his scum game to me. I've been trying my best not to tunnel on him as I'm aware I have a tendancy to, but it really feels as if he's trying to buddy me to get me on his side so I won't go for him.

Spoiler: UCV's buddying

im leaning Luca townie. . .depending on if he continues to post like he is.

Luca doesn't ATE. I don't remember seeing ATE from him, and i doubt he is actually doing it. he has a solid game style. no need to change

are you sure you know what ATE is? IF not, it is appeal to emotion. Im sure you know this though

Gut feeling on Impede and UCV being scum buddies....just putting it in here for reference.

you always have gut feeling i am scum though i can't blame you tbh.

Luca has played with me in a few games

a mini normal where i was a town JailKeeper
In a newbie game (mandella effect) where i was Doctor
A newbie game (basketball) where i was scum and was the most obv scum and somehow won! that is why he has the right to scum read me based on gut. though im town here. : p

why would you ask someone to lynch you?

tbh, this looks like ATE to me. and the fact you were trying use ATE earlier disturbs me.

Because he's clearly not read my posts and is falling victim to conf bias. Don't like his playstyle at all. If I'm going to be on the receiving end of it all game for no reason then I'll either have to get used to ignoring it or end up dead. It's a waste because I feel relatively strongly that he's town and should be going after players presenting legitimate scumtells.

Luca has a really good play style. i have seen him figure out who the scum is several times. He takes a good approach to the game as well. What he is doing now isn confbias. if he was confbias, he would probably be on me right now.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73370
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73677
these are some examples of when i confbias. confbias generally doesn't happen til nylo or mylo.

another thing

confbias is a town move

. If luca is confbiasing you, isn't your main scum read moz who also would be confbias you? Im still trying to figure out how it isn't

OMGUS

.

I find it very strange how you kept rather silent until this case formed on you, and you started to post again. It makes little to no since.

He has also made a lot of 'on the fence' comments, as is his style as scum:

Spoiler: UCV's fence-sitting

I am all ready town reading Mozamis.
His posts seem to be coming from a townie point of view

I have a null read on Luca
i am familiar with his play, so i will be able to read him soon

i have a scum lean on archwing
I am less familiar with this player, but i don't know how trying to make RVS last longer helps town, so i am all ready not so sure about that slot

This one is too orderly - one townread, one null read and one scumread? Convenient.

He didn't even seem to acknowledge it. Im not sure what to think of that.

He didn't even seem to acknowledge it. Im not sure what to think of that.

I have seen town ignore cases on them, but i have also seen

A LOT

of times

is implede's scum play a LURK!SCUM?

If so, i would totally vote for him. Im still trying to make reads, though it is early in the game

I'm not liking how impede keeps saying he will post later, but I see where he is coming from. I have done that as town.
His ATE case made no since

VOTE: UCV

Everyone sheep me.

[Luca Blight]

@Laser:

why do I look scummy?

In this type of game, I feel it is very likely there is going to be a lot of SvS infighting early on. You and Lucky's interaction has this vibe to me... you start with a discussion about Comm's intentions, but very quickly Comm is sidelined out of the discussion without any really input from him and you proceed to tunnel each other for the next six pages. The fact that Comm actually commented on your discussion at #100 and neither of you either asked him a question or wanted him to weigh in seems to suggest that neither of you are really interested in Comm at all. This is particularly unsettling since as of #172 don't actually think Lucky is scum, in which case it's not clear to me why you've spent so much energy on this. I'm leaning SvS on this whole interaction.

My problem was with Lucky's vote, not with Comm. You should read it again as you obviously misunderstood the point I was making.

[UC Voyager]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

[Luca Blight]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

That's misrepping what I said.

A lot of people have townread me this game yet you don't see me scumreading every one of them.

[UC Voyager]

So i just reread Impede's more recent post. I really miss read them which is very obv because i thought he said he was scum reading Luca and Moz, but they were not.

[UC Voyager]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

That's misrepping what I said.

A lot of people have townread me this game yet you don't see me scumreading every one of them.

so Why am i any different?

[Luca Blight]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

That's misrepping what I said.

A lot of people have townread me this game yet you don't see me scumreading every one of them.

so Why am i any different?

Because you're trying to buddy me and it feels fake.

If it's genuine then I apologise, but I can't shake this feeling that you're scum, and I don't think I'll be able to until you're dead.

[UC Voyager]

I am scummy for town reading you? damn, i guess im not allowed to townread people.

That's misrepping what I said.

A lot of people have townread me this game yet you don't see me scumreading every one of them.

so Why am i any different?

Because you're trying to buddy me and it feels fake.

If it's genuine then I apologise, but I can't shake this feeling that you're scum, and I don't think I'll be able to until you're dead.

if it changes anything, it is genuine. I also have learned that just because someone is siding with me, it doesn't mean they are the same alignment as me. I endorse that concept as town and scum because it is true and it will help you if you keep that mindset

[Luca Blight]

And how would you define "Luca logic"?

You can't prove it, thus you shouldn't act on it. For example, whats your scum case on me?

Doesn't matter, you don't have proof I'm not just bad town so you shouldn't scum read me.

This is a complete exaggeration of my point, as I already said.

My point was specific, you're trying to generalise it. In your specific case there was no reason to think Comm was lying other than pure guesswork, and given the fact that in RVS everyone fishes for reactions to some degree, the burden of proof is with you. If you have literally nothing (I'm not talking abut conclusive evidence, just something to back-up what you're saying) then I don't see how you can think anyone will be convinced by your argument.

Anyway, let's leave this here.

[CultOfAthena]

TT | Ts
--------
Ts | ss
-snip-

This is a fallacious or at best meaningless application of statistics, as bad as saying "he can't be scum, he rolled scum the last two games!". I'm not sure whether you belive it yourself or not but I'm inclined to think so. I'm not entirely sure what that says about your alignment, if anything at all.

he's gamesolving, argumentative, transparent and not doging the issue.
comm is town.

That's his personality you're seeing, not necessarily his alignment. Just because people were scumreading Comm for bad reasons doesn't mean townreading him for similarly bad reasons is a good idea either.

zaraki is prob town as well, very gamesolvy and arguing the toss and being emotional

Are you calling 90 gamesolving?

@cy
Why did you vote Comm in 35?

nevr mind the questions, what are your reads, opinions, analysis?

LAMIST.

MOD NOTES

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*sigh*