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Post Post #2075 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:38 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

I agree. I crumbed (Cerb disagrees with me about it but I always have crumbed as BP. Posts in this gave have given me things to think about and I'll probably have questions on playing BP more optimally after the game). No CC.

@PV - Both Cerb and I argue when we see bad reasoning. If someone is directing accusations at us, we respond to them as we view ignoring people's concerns as scummy (ergo why we're fairly sure there's scum on the early fast mastin wagon from today ... everyone ignored us asking for their reasoning). When I claimed, I pointed out that there is no downside to giving us a couple days where we are not playing defense the whole day to do our thing. If folks are paranoid or we haven't obvtowned by then, we can be lynched then. Given our history, I feel like it's reasonable to ask for that space, especially since we crumbed, claimed and haven't been counterclaimed or anything.

You don't seem to think or play like either Cerb or I, so it's fallacious to compare what you think when you get a certain role with what Cerb had to say. After the game you'll get our hydra pt and you'll see that he did indeed ask right away about our role for clarity. One of the things that bothers us both is when people assume they know exactly how the mod intends their role to function. I've watched games hinge on someone misunderstanding how their role worked. I've also seen someone be clever and ask questions about their role and then work out a way to magnify the effect of their role and make it way better than it would otherwise be (Most notably Mastin in SMITE who was basically a goo spreader who could alignment check anyone with goo. She figured out how to multiply the goo spreading AND set it up so that she could check someone's alignment without removing their goo so that they would keep spreading the goo. That made her role ridiculously OP and it's the primary reason I killed her when I did as she was on the verge of the point where the goo would go from a few people to basically everyone).

Don't have much more time to finish that thought, but I hope what I'm driving at is clear? It shouldn't be odd that Cerb asked and clarified our role. It should be odd and bad when people do NOT ensure they fully understand their role and look for how to maximize it.

I won't get to post again until super late tonight East Coast time. It will be more like early tomorrow morning. I'm not big on emotion mixed with mafia, because generally in my observation that just ends with people upset or worse, so generally anything people read as AtE from me isn't actually me intentionally doing AtE. This next thing is intentional AtE: Please take the time to reassess your assumptions and reconsider. If you guys pile on and just end the day all you will find out is that I honestly claimed. Even if we end up the lynch because {reasons}, there's so much more that could be done with today than just ending it to find out I was honest. I see no town motivation in ending the day early, but I'm pretty sure scum will be quite happy to have a day phase taken up exclusively talking about one person who happens to be BP, and then having that person lynched. The
last
thing scum want is town putting their minds to work and exploring the player list and asking questions of folks who have been keeping out of the way and doing their best not to draw attention and just let out lynch happen.

Even if you reassess and you feel like the odds are we're scum for {whatever reasons}, it's
still
better to actually make use of the day to get more people talking and committing their thoughts and reads and positions. Even if we were scum, just ending the day without getting other things that need exploring actually explored some and getting people to commit content to the game is not optimal town play. It's not even close. Take into account the fact that I really was honest with my claim and just ending the day is way more useful to the scum team than for town.

Hopefully not the last two cents I get to offer,
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Post Post #2076 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:00 pm

Post by Cephrir »

In post 2073, Heartless wrote:ok ceph ajd matt

who what townreadds am i fucking up on?

is it mastin?

dave, mastin, twie or monkey
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Post Post #2077 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:01 pm

Post by Cephrir »

VOTE: RR

Fuck it. I have to do too many mental acrobatics to believe your stories.
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Post Post #2078 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:03 pm

Post by mastin2 »

Are you trying to drive me out of the game?
I feel like you're trying to drive me out of the game.

I'm going to be reading from page 62, but not right now. I'm on my weekend V/LA, just posting here to say I hate you all for producing 22 pages in such a short time period and yes it will take time for me to catch up which I will do either tomorrow or Monday but not right now.
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Post Post #2079 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:30 pm

Post by Kthxbye »

UNVOTE:

So the greased wagon that was Perfection was a success, but that doesn't mean RR is going to turn out the same way.

Call me silly, call me gullible, but RR sounds townish in his posting while being the leading wagon and/or probable lynch today....so much so that I just don't feel right about him being the lynch for today. It isn't sitting right. I get all the reasons for his lynch, I just can't get behind it. I just can't. I'm drunk, it's Halloween and this lynch seems wrong to me.

On another note:
VOTE: MM

Fuck this waste of space. I'd rather play with scum RR posting townish than this waste of slot. Wagon up.
If you think I'm scum D1, bet all your money I'm town.
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Post Post #2080 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:31 pm

Post by Kthxbye »

I want to be Matt's second vote, but I just can't do RR. I know I posted completely opposite earlier, but reading him now in my current state of mind....I've changed my mind.
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Post Post #2081 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:33 pm

Post by Kthxbye »

I also hate Mastins bullshit posted 100 times in a row and then disappear for 50 pages bullshit. Wouldn't shed a tear over getting rid of her either...but that may just be because of her read on me being so stupid. /shrug.
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Post Post #2082 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:44 pm

Post by pisskop »

I support this MM wagon
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2083 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:51 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

I support the RR wagon.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!

You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
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Post Post #2084 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:35 pm

Post by StrangerCoug »

VOTE COUNT

Botlane (2): Spiffeh, Firebringer
HerryPanther (1): Heartless
LicketyQuickety (3): Reasonably Rational, Vedith, BotLane
MonkeyMan576 (1): Kthxbye
Reasonably Rational (5): PeregrineV, MonkeyMan576, pisskop, MattP, Cephrir
Vedith (3): mastin2, HerryPanther, LicketyQuickety
Not voting (2): davesaz, TheWayItEnds

With
17
players alive, it takes
9
votes to lynch.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2015-11-07 10:39:49).
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Post Post #2085 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Post by StrangerCoug »

HerryPanther and MonkeyMan576 have been prodded. This is the latter's second prod.
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Post Post #2086 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:46 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

VOTE: RR
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!

You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
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Post Post #2087 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:48 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

The response I said I'd give earlier, here now that I'm back home.

In post 1675, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 1669, TheWayItEnds wrote:
In post 1662, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 1658, TheWayItEnds wrote:
In post 1655, LicketyQuickety wrote:Fine, whatever. If the mod wants to modkill me its whatevs. Matt is clearly being a jerk and I don't like it.


1645 is not a good post.

Matts response to it was probably nicer than mine would have been.


Matt has not done a damn thing except go after RR this whole day over something that is not at all something that deserves a whole gameday devoted to it. His excuse for this is he only picks one lead at a time. That's pretty convenient that he has pretty much nothing to say on anything else this whole game. It's not even a rock solid case, it can't be proven or disproven and its largely based on circumstantial evidence.


ok.

and?


I'm saying he's putting all his eggs in one basket and that's a terrible approach to the game. I have given a town read on someone before just because they did the same thing. But here's the thing, I think he's doing it on purpose. I think he may have found RR's crumb and is doing everything he can to get RR lynched because of it. This all assumes that RR is telling the truth about laying down a crumb, sure. So basically, if RR can prove he laid a believable crumb we have a new lynch candidate. If RR declines to provide the crumb then I'll be on board with lynching RR. It is beyond basic play to point out a crumb if you did it. Leaving a crumb is for exactly this kind of situation. Its possible that RR in desperation is saying he left a crumb that he didn't, granted. But if he did leave a crumb... ehhhh IDK, its looking pretty bad for Matt.


You didn't say here that if you felt the claim was suspect you would be supportive of our wagon. You said here that if we had not crumbed(which, btw, just a thing, Drixx apparently didn't crumb D1 as bomb etc, he made the full bp crumb in , and then made a less informative crumb in . Those were both on day 2.), then you should be suspicious of us. We did, in fact crumb. MattP first voted us today and laid out his case in . Those are facts. We did crumb, and MattP did make an overt move against our slot after the crumb. Does that mean what you insinuated it means? Who fucking knows, by itself it doesn't tell us anything. BUT it does mean what you're doing now does not match up with what you said you would do earlier, and you haven't given a satisfying reason for *why* that is the case.

In post 2071, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 2068, Reasonably Rational wrote:Like, is the problem seriously that you, MattP, don't believe that I would ask the mod for clarification how my role function when received, and then ask a specific question when new information becomes available?

Just so I know that I'm arguing with nonsense, so I can stop wasting my limited time refuting the incorrect conclusions others lack of reading comprehension and/or confbiasing are leading them to.

-Cerb


OK, maybe this is a stupid question, but how do you not know how BP works?


I know how I expect BP to work. I don't know how the mod expects BP to work. Assumptions are bad.

In post 2074, LicketyQuickety wrote:This is what
should
have happened with the claim/crumb:

"You're Scum"

"I crumbed"

"where?"

"here"

"OK, you are not CC so you can live"

Does anyone else not see this?


See? I don't understand how you're supporting my lynch, vocally at least, but you post things like this, which at least *seem* to indicate that you don't think the way play has gone since our claim makes sense.

In post 2083, LicketyQuickety wrote:I support the RR wagon.


Just quoted this here to support the above points about it not making sense. I am confused LQ. Please help me stop being confused. Seriously.

Okay, anyways, fuck the entirety of what's been going on here. What the hell is with all the people just floating along not interacting while the entire day is spent with us defending ourselves. Seriously, here's a fucking link:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=62375

Read that. Read 10% of it. Yes, just 10%. We ARE fucking capable of destroying this fucking game AND willing to put the time in to make it happen.

Cephrir, MattP - you're both too smart to just let today be ONLY about us. Hell, this goes out to everyone:if you're town, and you spent the day arguing with us, just set that aside, and work with us to spend the rest of the day actually accomplishing things - instead of letting people just use us as a smokescreen. Let's not make the ONLY thing town gets out of today be "Oh, they were honest. Well, shit, that sucks, we should have probably forced more interactions with more slots." There are a lot of people who are just...kinda...here. There are too many of them for them to all be scum, but there is an extreme amount of either scum hiding or town apathy happening here. We need to find out which. If you want to lynch us at the end of the day for "reasons", at least then today will have actually been useful.

I'm going to go through the playerlist alphabetically now like I started doing earlier before I got sick of it.

Botlane: Seriously, what are you guys doing? Are you still both busy? Absolutely no thoughts on anything? Avoiding the thread because, ya know, there's lots of noise to hide in?

Davesaz: Any thoughts on any slots other than ourselves, Botlane, TWiE, or MM? I think those are the reads you've given out so far today.

Firebringer: You said earlier today to merge the votes to form one big wagon, and then proceeded to vote on someone who didn't have any votes on them(or maybe just had 1? I would need to double check VC's, I do know it was on Botlane, not one of the leadering wagons). I get that that may have been your strongest scumread at the time, but what were you trying to accomplish with that vote?

Heartless: I don't fucking know. Talk to me, pick a subject, pick a player, let's talk about it. You don't give reasons for your reads, mostly. You just kinda quote posts and say ewww, or respond immediately from reading your iso itself I see where you're at, but I don't see *why* you're there.

HerryPanther: You have no content, 18 posts. There is nothing I can talk to you about. See what I said to Botlane.

Kthxbye: I love you because even though you don't have much content, you give me actual things to read. You said this "I think there has to be at least 1 scum here: HerryPanther, pisskop, Reasonably Rational
I think there has to be at least 1 scum here: TWIE, davesaz, Teridax, LQ"

Can you explain what lead to the separation of those two lists? Why isn't it just I think there's 2 scum is this larger group, instead of the exclusiveness. I assume there's a reason. Share please.

LQ: See above.

Mastin: This is weird. Established meta is that she runs the game, and she's not doing that here...but, well, now she's pulling out the "oh, I'm always behind, stop posting so much card..." And that's a thing she started to pull out in Inorganic. We need to reevaluate. So, give us some more reason to think you're town Mastin, I want you to just start contributing again. You're a massive fucking asset if your head is in the game, so get your head in the game.

MonkeyMan576: You're, well, terrible. Like, if performers play yesterday was obvscum, I don't think there exists words to describe how terribly scummy you are. Have you done ANYTHING this game? You've snarked to respond to some people, and you've lurked to the point of oblivion.

You know. I've just been skimming ISO's, but I think I'm gonna take a second and delve a bit deeper into his. He has 42 posts.

-Cerb
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Post Post #2088 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:05 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

So...I expected more. 42 posts right? Seriously, there is nothing else in his iso of note except this. He has done *nothing* of value. He interacts with LQ a bit back and forth, in a way that doesn't seem to accomplish anything, and then he says the following:

Spoiler: Monkeyman thinks MattP is scum!
In post 1192, MonkeyMan576 wrote:@MattP - So you feel you only have to be forthright when you are being wagoned?

In post 1194, MonkeyMan576 wrote:For the sake of information, which the town needs to win...

Vote: MattP

In post 1206, MonkeyMan576 wrote:What's scummy about wanting as much info as possible? MattP clearly has information he is not divulging.

In post 1214, MonkeyMan576 wrote:
In post 1191, MattP wrote:And I don't care about divulging you in all my reads just so you can get a better read of me. I'm clearly not going to be wagoned today so I have no reason to go down a rabbit hole with you when I want to be focusing on RR.


This.

In post 1221, MonkeyMan576 wrote:
In post 1216, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1214, MonkeyMan576 wrote:
In post 1191, MattP wrote:And I don't care about divulging you in all my reads just so you can get a better read of me. I'm clearly not going to be wagoned today so I have no reason to go down a rabbit hole with you when I want to be focusing on RR.


This.


Players can give reasons or not for their reads. Unless you have a strong read on Matt, then his reads (and lack of reasons, iyo) should rank right near the bottom of "things MonkeyMan cares about".

If you think MattP (who strongly leans town to me) needs to be sorted out BEFORE all the other players and so his reads MUST BE EXPLAINED on day2, then you'd really have to explain why you feel that way.


I know MattP to be a strong player, so I am suspicious when he says something like he doesn't want to give his reads, or that "I'm not going to be wagoned today." Arrogance does not help the town, so at this point I have a scum read on him.

In post 1284, MonkeyMan576 wrote:When MattP flips scum, just note that I said it first.

In post 1286, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Planning your bussing already, eh?

Spoiler: No, wait, actually, he thinks MattP AND us are scum. Oh, and that a buncha other people are town.
In post 1303, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Scum
MattP and Reasonably Rational

Neutral
Cephirir
Heartless
Vedith
BotLane
HerryPanther
kthxbyte
Terridax
TheWayItEnds

Town
Monkeyman576
davesaz
Firebringer
LicketyQickety
PeregrineV
pisskop
Spiffeh
Spoiler: Ope, RR wagon is picking some steam back up, better get on there
In post 1316, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I don't agree with a lot of that but it's a start.

Vote: Reasonably Rational

In post 1331, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Well, RR is obvscum so I think we are doing just fine.

Does this make ANY sense to anyone at any point? HE LISTS US AS SCUM ALONGSIDE MATTP. How can you, with a straight face, even CONSIDER MattP to be scum, but vote the case he's been pushing strongest throughout the day? Both the architect of the wagon, and the target of it are scum? It's absurd, it's insane, it's scum or it's stupidity, and after talking to Drixx about it, we're willing to bet on scum.

VOTE: MonkeyMan576

Spoiler: Oh, and I found this gem too! This should make everyone chuckle a little.
In post 581, MonkeyMan576 wrote:

I would rather have someone participate and try to help their team win like their win condition says they should do.


-Cerb
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Post Post #2089 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:27 pm

Post by Kthxbye »

RR post 2087 SHOULD be enough to not lynch today.

In response to the question: I'm currently drinknk ad fuck and phone posting so I'll get back to you tomorrow.
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Post Post #2090 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by BotLane »

Cerb: Expect me to be active when I don't have to read a novel every day to be caught up. I don't have the attention span for that shit.

-Ank
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Post Post #2091 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:48 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

It's late, I'm exhausted, extremely long day today. I'll carry on tomorrow when I wake up, assuming we're still alive then. Good night all.

-Cerb
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Post Post #2092 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:03 am

Post by MonkeyMan576 »

Sorry ive been busy. It's not like thete has been a lot of stuff going on. My vote stays.
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Post Post #2093 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:22 am

Post by Spiffeh »

Monkeyman is lol but RR can die.
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Post Post #2094 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:39 am

Post by pisskop »

vote: MM[/vote]

still willing to hammer rr tho
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2095 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:40 am

Post by pisskop »

VOTE: mm
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2096 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:37 am

Post by HerryPanther »

In post 2089, Kthxbye wrote:RR post 2087 SHOULD be enough to not lynch today.


I agree with this. Still not sure what all the fuss is about with RR, but the fact that they are so invested in the game (wish I could claim the same for myself, sorry guys...) looks great for us if they're indeed town bulletproof.

I don't recall ever liking MM. I believe I pointed out in my earlier posts the obvious contradictions of how he treats the game vs how he says people should play the game, and his 2092 "not like thete has been a lot of stuff going on" supports that idea.

If I missed questions directed at me/us, feel free to point them out. I promise I'll be more active from here on out.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MonkeyMan576

-herr
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MattP
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Post Post #2097 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:27 am

Post by MattP »

All right.

VOTE: MonkeyMan
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Post Post #2098 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:04 am

Post by Kthxbye »

Unofficial VC:
Botlane (2): Spiffeh, Firebringer
HerryPanther (1): Heartless
LicketyQuickety (2): Vedith, BotLane
MonkeyMan576 (5): Kthxbye, Reasonably Rational, pisskop, MattP, HerryPanther
Reasonably Rational (4): PeregrineV, MonkeyMan576, Cephrir, LicketyQuickety
Vedith (1): mastin2
Not voting (2): davesaz, TheWayItEnds


As promised:
In post 2087, Reasonably Rational wrote:Kthxbye: I love you because even though you don't have much content, you give me actual things to read. You said this "I think there has to be at least 1 scum here: HerryPanther, pisskop, Reasonably Rational
I think there has to be at least 1 scum here: TWIE, davesaz, Teridax, LQ"

Can you explain what lead to the separation of those two lists? Why isn't it just I think there's 2 scum is this larger group, instead of the exclusiveness. I assume there's a reason. Share please.


The first group were the 3 on Firebringer who, regardless if anyone else thinks so or not, was the only wagon option other than performer (counter wagon) that was really being pushed yesterday. I think if Firebringer is town, there is prolly 1 scum there just based on VCA. It doesn't confirm FB as town, but good enough for today to assume he is. The second group are those not voting either wagon (minus FB). It's my opinion based on VCA and experience that there is likely 1 or more in this group who avoided voting either lead wagon in hopes of going under the VCA radar. I would guess the remaining scum bussed and I personally think MM is one of the bussers. His hop onto the scum lynch was late and weak. The only worry I have is that it's almost TOO perfect a bus vote. Hopefully we'll see.
If you think I'm scum D1, bet all your money I'm town.
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Post Post #2099 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:09 am

Post by pisskop »

Im on RR
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.

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