House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

this is frustrating

I'm not asking you to "use them against you"

I am asking you because I think it'll probably be a more effective method of sorting you than arguing with you about the same point over and over again

Just for perspective "I don't explain my town reads because it helps the scum team" is a standard town!LLD thought, that I have seen from her in more then one game.

I was more shocked seeing her ask you why you didn't ask her, then I am seeing her refuse to answer.

I do agree that that it can be frustrating to deal with.

ahaha, it's weird isn't it?

I'm still reluctant but... we have to form a townblock here, almost always. It's why I'm hunting town, not scum here this game so far.

[Dannflor]

it's possible I'm just scum reading a personality / writing style re: Adante

I'm wary to just town bin someone because they are polarized. polarized players are rarely polarized because they truly have no ability to play scum, they just choose not to. historically many polarized players have decided to break their near trust-tell meta on a whim. it happened with creature and it happened with NSG

that being said, that's mostly paranoia talking and I think my reasons to scum read Adante are probably less good than I thought they were

[Dannflor]

vp baltar is a bad vote

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, a few cards on the table to assuage some people who I think are town.

I don't always put my reads on the table so when someone comes along and says the shit I saw in my reads in the exact same way, I go "ah, townie mindset" and I link with them.

That's what happened with Shea and the Luke->Junko thought.

I had a similar read to both Shea and Luke on Junko and Luke stating it, then Shea stating it and finding Luke and going "oh, I like this!" gave major shea town points, plus shea is just obvtowning at this point.

Luke is town for pointing it out to begin with, Junko is town because of it.

UNOWen/Rhea I'm remaining Hush on until Dann answers. I mean... see above for why that is a wanted thing.

[Thestatusquo]

vp baltar is a bad vote

I'm less interested in it being a bad vote than I am in datisi thinking it is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it's possible I'm just scum reading a personality / writing style re: Adante

I'm wary to just town bin someone because they are polarized. polarized players are rarely polarized because they truly have no ability to play scum, they just choose not to. historically many polarized players have decided to break their near trust-tell meta on a whim. it happened with creature and it happened with NSG

that being said, that's mostly paranoia talking and I think my reasons to scum read Adante are probably less good than I thought they were

Fuck me b'y.

Can you just give me an answer on UnOwen and Rhae re-reads so I can see where your head is at wrt them and sort you so I don't keep doing this "ah but this post sounds townie" "ah but the other posts were so scummy"

[Datisi]

she always scum reads you and that made you feel better about her?

because that is not why i townread her... i thought her posts showed the amount of rapid-firing, utter-nonsense paranoia that i felt she would struggle to fake as scum. whatever post of hers was before i called her town, was a post where i felt she had so many of those thoughts in rapid succession that she was very likely town for it

i was ready to murder you if you claimed to scumread me over it, but the explanation you gave for the read on me seems *fine*, so i guess

ok so uhhh

andante town, dannflor firebringer and vp baltar feel town

VOTE: vp baltar anyone?

my usual way of reading vp baltar is "townread him if he does something that i don't think scum-him would do", HOWEVER i have realized that i can use a "townread him if he does not do something that i know scum-him would do" here

i'm realizing how much i actually rely on being able to push stuff with my votes and how it's throwing me off, which is annoying but oh well

Similarly can you explain a VP town position? I've had a few pings in the opposite direction personally.

This whole post feels very incongruous to me. Like, I understand using a heuristic of "ok I will assume x is town until shown otherwise for the purposes of scum hunting" but I have a hard time seeing why town!you would extend such logic to voting to put that person in the most powerful position in the game.

explained partly in 381, partly unexplained yet because i am looking for something

that is not my logic for townreading baltar. it's not "town until proven otherwise", it's "town because he did not do [action] that i think scum-him would've done"

what's bugging you about him?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Dannflor

LLD is not a bad choice but I think Dannflor is easier to read

can i get your thought process behind this post and vote?

I want a King I would trust to be a skilled player if town

LLD is definitely skilled but my experience/impression of her is that she's the type of player who tunnels her scumreads and puts a ton of pressure on them to box them out of a game, and I think that's an easier playstyle to replicate as scum. If she does similar here and vigs a townie, it'd be hard for me to discern whether town!LLD was simply wrong or whether she's mafia

whereas town!Dann is a flexible player, he's very transparent about his thought processes and usually displays a ton of authenticity/paranoia as his reads change that I think is much harder to convincingly emulate as scum.

so I feel I would have an easier time sussing him out if he's mafia than LLD. frankly I also wanted to start an alternative wagon rather than just jump on the LLD train

in other news, I don't like 35 it gives me a LAMISTy vibe and this:

i do a lot of stressed tinfoil posting when i'm town in an important position.

and i don't think i'm capable of replicating that stressed tinfoil posting as scum.

kinda feels like bullshit to me? Give yourself credit you are a capable scum player and I don't see why you'd genuinely expect us to believe you couldn't handle being a scum King

this is an incredibly good post and I think demonstrates a level of thinking about the king position that, while I think mafia COULD fake, they probably wouldn't think to do so right at the beginning. I would be incredibly impressed if this post came from scum GL.

It mirrors exactly my thoughts about why I think LLD would be a bad king. She's obviously incredibly good at mafia, and incredibly good as both alignments, so while I trust her reads if she's town, I know from first hand experience that she could probably dayvig an innocent child in public in a lot of games and still live another 3 game days. I want a king who I can more easily hold accountable if they do anti town shit.

There is a reason I didn't bother coming into this game to make allies or gather people to trust me, and a reason why I'm making a townblock that doesn't include me.

Putting me as king either kills me early or makes people so paranoid we get polarized on me. I don't want that. I'd much much rather be someone's kingsguard or small council and help them solve at this point.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Shea improving with a little rage as fuel is town.

can you explain what this means? or like, why is shea town to you?

yes, i did just read that you often refuse to explain townreads, but i am still asking

It means shea is quickly becoming a more confident townread for me than Owen is and that's pretty astounding. Shea is hitting every mental note I've had about the game. Luke+Junko shit. VP Baltar stuff. King theory stuff.

It's... either Shea just read what I expected and is snowing me hard or he's the most town person in the game RN and it's hard for me to see others not seeing it?

[Lukewarm]

I get town vibes from Andres's responses to LLD. I am also getting town vibes from LLD's play as well, although, not as strongly. With a splash of knowing she is good at scum.

So atm, I am at [ Andante, Junko, Andres, LLD ] town, in that order.

Thats alll the time you guys get from me today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I get town vibes from Andres's responses to LLD. I am also getting town vibes from LLD's play as well, although, not as strongly. With a splash of knowing she is good at scum.

So atm, I am at [ Andante, Junko, Andres, LLD ] town, in that order.

Thats alll the time you guys get from me today.

Take care of yourself and have a good day friend

[Firebringer]

it's possible I'm just scum reading a personality / writing style re: Adante

I'm wary to just town bin someone because they are polarized. polarized players are rarely polarized because they truly have no ability to play scum, they just choose not to. historically many polarized players have decided to break their near trust-tell meta on a whim. it happened with creature and it happened with NSG

that being said, that's mostly paranoia talking and I think my reasons to scum read Adante are probably less good than I thought they were

i don't think ur reading motivations. i think ur trying to understand mindset and failing at that are going for scum mindset by default.

[Firebringer]

There is a reason I didn't bother coming into this game to make allies or gather people to trust me, and a reason why I'm making a townblock that doesn't include me.

Putting me as king either kills me early or makes people so paranoid we get polarized on me. I don't want that. I'd much much rather be someone's kingsguard or small council and help them solve at this point.

people gonna be paranoid of you regardless.
u attempting to be like "ohh i don't want the power because u will get paranoid of me" only makes me think ur deliberately trying to play up how cooperative u are to make it seem like ur on town side. Which is again what u would call paranoia if ur town.

I swear u hype up the paranoia people have on u that it becomes a self fufilling prophecy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also had a thought about reverse popcorning into a king?

Like, we agree on 1 person (or I can volunteer IDGAF) to not be king, and then they select someone who won't be king, and so on until someone picks the last person not to be king and there's one person unpicked, and then we vote them for King.

It has the advantage of forcing players to show their hands about who they trust least, and has very good odds to produce a town king.

[Thestatusquo]

I think andres comes across as very earnest in his discussion with LLD and he seems to be really genuinely trying to explain something he genuinely believes and I think that's pretty strong town points I don't think scum would go this deep down in the weeds without starting to assume bad faith and using it as an attack.

I could see that going the other direction too though, if andres knows LLDs alignment because he's scum he'd probably approach this argument in a similar way because its probably not worth getting into an alignment shit fight about it, but I still think that the mech solve attempt is genuine so that mitigates that possibility in my mind a bit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

There is a reason I didn't bother coming into this game to make allies or gather people to trust me, and a reason why I'm making a townblock that doesn't include me.

Putting me as king either kills me early or makes people so paranoid we get polarized on me. I don't want that. I'd much much rather be someone's kingsguard or small council and help them solve at this point.

people gonna be paranoid of you regardless.
u attempting to be like "ohh i don't want the power because u will get paranoid of me" only makes me think ur deliberately trying to play up how cooperative u are to make it seem like ur on town side. Which is again what u would call paranoia if ur town.

I swear u hype up the paranoia people have on u that it becomes a self fufilling prophecy.

I mean, the quote strip you pulled there was literally quote replying to a post in which another player literally said "LLD could openly vig an innocent child and live for 3 more days after, she's that good" so I don't really know what you mean? I'm not hyping anything up, this is the first I've mentioned it, I just am responding to someone elses logic for why they don't want to vote for me.

[Firebringer]

I also had a thought about reverse popcorning into a king?

Like, we agree on 1 person (or I can volunteer IDGAF) to not be king, and then they select someone who won't be king, and so on until someone picks the last person not to be king and there's one person unpicked, and then we vote them for King.

It has the advantage of forcing players to show their hands about who they trust least, and has very good odds to produce a town king.

lets just play the game and not be dictating how everything goes down

[Thestatusquo]

There is a reason I didn't bother coming into this game to make allies or gather people to trust me, and a reason why I'm making a townblock that doesn't include me.

Putting me as king either kills me early or makes people so paranoid we get polarized on me. I don't want that. I'd much much rather be someone's kingsguard or small council and help them solve at this point.

people gonna be paranoid of you regardless.
u attempting to be like "ohh i don't want the power because u will get paranoid of me" only makes me think ur deliberately trying to play up how cooperative u are to make it seem like ur on town side. Which is again what u would call paranoia if ur town.

I swear u hype up the paranoia people have on u that it becomes a self fufilling prophecy.

I also don't love this post because it seems like quite a significant shift in tone and purpose from earlier posts like this:

Are we all on the same page now? Does everyone understand how this is going to work?

We'll vote for a King, the King will appoint their 7 small council seats, which includes their Successor and 6 others with power, who will also appoint Kingsguard who if loyal to the king means the king cannot be executed by killing abilities and the king is normally immune to all other abilities.

So, in general... the math of the game is hung on a knife's edge and people should be far more concerned with finding and backing their most townie candidate, even if they think that player would be a "bad king", so long as they are town and they're willing to listen and allow the game to progress... we're in a better spot than the alternative which is one bad vote away from death.

Addmittedly, the unknown roles are possibly available to prevent that world? Maybe one of the small council has a govern ability they may use to stop a king's execution? But agian, if the king appoints their Small Council, then it's important the first king is town or we might see those abilities as scum controlled anyway

Maybe its not as incongruous as I originally thought on reading it again, but this does seem to suggest LLD thinks we shouldn't be worrying about the things she said in other post if we think she's the most townie.

[Thestatusquo]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

Pinning this to remind me to go reread 150.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

There is a reason I didn't bother coming into this game to make allies or gather people to trust me, and a reason why I'm making a townblock that doesn't include me.

Putting me as king either kills me early or makes people so paranoid we get polarized on me. I don't want that. I'd much much rather be someone's kingsguard or small council and help them solve at this point.

people gonna be paranoid of you regardless.
u attempting to be like "ohh i don't want the power because u will get paranoid of me" only makes me think ur deliberately trying to play up how cooperative u are to make it seem like ur on town side. Which is again what u would call paranoia if ur town.

I swear u hype up the paranoia people have on u that it becomes a self fufilling prophecy.

I also don't love this post because it seems like quite a significant shift in tone and purpose from earlier posts like this:

Are we all on the same page now? Does everyone understand how this is going to work?

We'll vote for a King, the King will appoint their 7 small council seats, which includes their Successor and 6 others with power, who will also appoint Kingsguard who if loyal to the king means the king cannot be executed by killing abilities and the king is normally immune to all other abilities.

So, in general... the math of the game is hung on a knife's edge and people should be far more concerned with finding and backing their most townie candidate, even if they think that player would be a "bad king", so long as they are town and they're willing to listen and allow the game to progress... we're in a better spot than the alternative which is one bad vote away from death.

Addmittedly, the unknown roles are possibly available to prevent that world? Maybe one of the small council has a govern ability they may use to stop a king's execution? But agian, if the king appoints their Small Council, then it's important the first king is town or we might see those abilities as scum controlled anyway

Maybe its not as incongruous as I originally thought on reading it again, but this does seem to suggest LLD thinks we shouldn't be worrying about the things she said in other post if we think she's the most townie.

Eh? I don't understand how they're incongruous.

We should always aim to elect the most townie person. If you think I'm the most townie person, vote for me. If I get that kind of support I'll gladly be king. I've literally never turned down the opportunity to dayvig someone in my fucking life.

But I'm being realistic and focusing more with my actions under the assumption I won't be king and that it would be polarazing if I was, and instead trying to form a townblock.

That's fairly consistent, no?

[Firebringer]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

u know its funny cause i don't remember this, and of all the people in this playerlist i would describe ur style as closest to mine.

[Firebringer]

I also don't love this post because it seems like quite a significant shift in tone and purpose from earlier posts like this:

we aren't allowed to agree friendo.

[Thestatusquo]

yeah I guess you're probably right about that.

What do you have against GuiltyLion? I noticed earlier you said that you didn't trust him but in your reasoning for me as town you said I picked up on a bunch of mental notes I had, among them was my thoughts on the king mech part which came in the context of me saying I felt that guiltylions thoughts were 100% correct and pretty tough to fake as scum.

I don't see how we could agree on king mech in that way and disagree on GL's alignment so I want to know if you've had some sort of shift on GL or if not I'd like some words about why you don't feel townie about them and why that overcomes the mech thing I just talked about?

[Thestatusquo]

I also don't love this post because it seems like quite a significant shift in tone and purpose from earlier posts like this:

we aren't allowed to agree friendo.

To our detriment in 2283.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah I guess you're probably right about that.

What do you have against GuiltyLion? I noticed earlier you said that you didn't trust him but in your reasoning for me as town you said I picked up on a bunch of mental notes I had, among them was my thoughts on the king mech part which came in the context of me saying I felt that guiltylions thoughts were 100% correct and pretty tough to fake as scum.

I don't see how we could agree on king mech in that way and disagree on GL's alignment so I want to know if you've had some sort of shift on GL or if not I'd like some words about why you don't feel townie about them and why that overcomes the mech thing I just talked about?

I agree on the correct part, not the tough to fake as scum part.

In my view, GL's posting as of thus far has been in the same liminal space as Baltar's, but Baltar also got worse after I posted that.

I can't pin GL to anything, they voted for Dann and then poked Datisi to vote Andante, but that's about it? Everything else felt... mmm....

Liminal and top layer. Sugar coated. I'm lacking the word in english to explain this, so I hope I've circled the point for you?