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[Black]

VOTE: Val

Sure let's see where this goes

[petapan]

Replacing Alyssa.

[DArby]

Excellent.

Now, just to clarify, does that vote mean you are dropping your scumread on Rosen?

Not really. As I said earlier, I doubt both of you are scum. If you flip red then it’ll be easier to townread Rosen.

[DArby]

I’m willing to give Rosen a chance on the condition you flip.

this is an interesting statement! i was convinced you'd rather sack us both if you had the chance. in fact, i'm STILL convinced of that.

365 says otherwise.

[GreedyBanger]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rose

Back to here by default after KJQ started looking better and my open sheep to the wagon saw enough and got off. Not voting Val today.

[GreedyBanger]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rose

Back to here by default after KJQ started looking better and my open sheep to the wagon saw enough and got off. Not voting Val today.

[KayJayQueue]

How did I start looking better when I was posting in a delusional state…that’s a very sad realization about my game when I’m fully functioning damn lol

[GreedyBanger]

How did I start looking better when I was posting in a delusional state…that’s a very sad realization about my game when I’m fully functioning damn lol

When you first came into the game you jumped on alyssa and then kind of got stuck waiting for a response. I though alyssa was clearly the worse wagon between rose and alyssa but backed off from dealing with you directly on it to let you have your interaction with them.

Then because you were stuck it seemed like you were resting waiting for one interaction so I was happy to jump on your wagon. But I can see in hindsight it was just awkward timing with the slot going inactive. Now you are trying to kill people I want to kill and are interacting more across the board my initial read in obsolete.

[Rosenator]

How did I start looking better when I was posting in a delusional state…that’s a very sad realization about my game when I’m fully functioning damn lol

When you first came into the game you jumped on alyssa and then kind of got stuck waiting for a response. I though alyssa was clearly the worse wagon between rose and alyssa but backed off from dealing with you directly on it to let you have your interaction with them.

Then because you were stuck it seemed like you were resting waiting for one interaction so I was happy to jump on your wagon. But I can see in hindsight it was just awkward timing with the slot going inactive. Now you are trying to kill people I want to kill and are interacting more across the board my initial read in obsolete.

what's your take on her vote against Val between all that?

[GreedyBanger]

How did I start looking better when I was posting in a delusional state…that’s a very sad realization about my game when I’m fully functioning damn lol

When you first came into the game you jumped on alyssa and then kind of got stuck waiting for a response. I though alyssa was clearly the worse wagon between rose and alyssa but backed off from dealing with you directly on it to let you have your interaction with them.

Then because you were stuck it seemed like you were resting waiting for one interaction so I was happy to jump on your wagon. But I can see in hindsight it was just awkward timing with the slot going inactive. Now you are trying to kill people I want to kill and are interacting more across the board my initial read in obsolete.

what's your take on her vote against Val between all that?

Misguided but reasonable

[HighPrincessErinys]

its time to catch up. from like page 12. fuck,

[HighPrincessErinys]

My brain is not in a mafia mood right now but need to get through this eventually.

So with Rose there are a few things that stand out

The e-1 vote, the cop thing, the claim, and as someone pointed out (DArby I think) rose referred to a post of KJQ as being "cryptic" when it really was not at all.

So I can see val as scum in this context maybe, but it seems a bit risky?
Val, did the "cryptic" thing i mentioned change your thoughts on rose at all?

This one isn't sure it understands what you're going for here? Don't know how scum!Val is valid in this context.

It also feels to me like KJQ is (or rather, was?) getting wrapped up in the connotations of specific terminology used by a player who doesn't

quite

understand the meanings precisely yet. 257 from Val is a very good post and it shows, to me, that Val fully understands the mindset that Rose is probably working with, and that came BEFORE the KJQ post.

Val you write so much. It's hard to read all your stuff if I'm being honest

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think you write too little.

Should I take the fact you still wont tell me the name of a single slot you had in mind when you said "I've caught scum doing this before", it's an implicit "trust me bro"? Because I've going to continue to assume that it was a lie if so.

I'm practically

begging

you to make me look stupid and get me shut up here. Please?

If I was scum, I would entertain you, but luckily I am not so I feel no reason to. You're being pretty dramatic tbh. But that could just be your personality so not sure what to think. Let's say if I was confirmed town right now, how would that change your view on the game?

This reeks. This suuuuuper reeks and idk why HT is just completely failing to cooperate here. This one wanted to say "noooo wayyyy HT gaming???" to her maneuver, and it did, but the hype is long since faded because with some hindsight it doesn't really SAY anything about Alyssa, and HT is just bullshitting her way out of actually saying what scum she supposedly caught with the tactic. It bugs me!!! Alot!!!

[HighPrincessErinys]

Hu, is there a benefit for town for not providing the example val has been asking for?

Is it just that you have played stacks of games and can't be bothered trawling through them if you don't have to? Is so why not just say that?

I can't be bothered, but it's fun seeing how Val would react. And I did end up saying that

This one is assuming it's a giant bluff until it sees the PROOF.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Also this one is designating Val as Mood Kindred, because it feels a lot of his pain this game it feels like.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Nothing else to say about posts in particular, but this one still vibes with Val's posts a lot.

[GreedyBanger]

Erinys, anybody you'd like to fade other than Alyssa?

[Val89]

I am giving at go at not making detailed wall posts outlining all the points in minute detail, so here is an attempt at TLDRing my problems with D'Arby:

I don't understand his progression from 63 to 165 - "We should investigate shin more; Shin/Alyssa is interesting but I need to know Alyssa's experiance", to "I agree with Shin's side of the argument that Alyssa's" when Shin never posts between the two - although there is the Hu Tao pivot, and he is feeling out Greedy on what half of that 'argument' they are on. I think the pop back 20 mins later after answering Alysaa at 117 feels weird in a 'been thinking about how this progression might appear when people look back later' kind of way.

I found very odd the progression between "I’d rather Hu build a case against herself while we sort the rest of town" to "As we had a game that just ended 5 minutes ago, this is a hard town read now" and back to "Hu is now a null read again" which is a huge swing on what was the

lightest

of pushback from a new player who could instantly realise why the justification for being 'hard town' was poor. Describing a single vote on Hu Tao as "putting all our eggs in one basket" in 138 stuck me as a touch oversensitive.

I don't want to re-litigate it again unless I have to, but I felt his arguments against why Alyssa's early attempt to move out of RVS with Shin was scummy AND his pushing on Rosen for 296 with Kay have been pretty poor, based on widely out-there interpretations of pretty straight-forward, but perhaps poorly-expressed, concepts like a page 2 "let's look at the slots that chose to make a different rvs vote rather than join the obvious joke-wagon", and "I can see reasons why scum!Val might try and pocket me, but also I can see a possible town motivation, so maybe I should just treat it as null overall".

I think that has then been used to cast a wide-net over the idea of as many permutations of scum Val and Rosen as possible: maybe I am scum pocketing town!Rosen, maybe I'm town blindly following scum!Rosen, maybe in fact we are both scum together in a bold wifom strategy - making it so either wagon could be justifiable, and either green flip matters not, adjust as needed. All while doing that, he's tried to hide me to a higher standard - I should have a single scum read at a time or else be solving for the team, etc.

Happy to go into any of this in more detail if I need to; but I am realising my problems playing mafia are not with my read accuracy, but with expressing myself in a way that's understandable to others, so I'll try this approach and not blurge it all at once.

[geraintm]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rose

Back to here by default after KJQ started looking better and my open sheep to the wagon saw enough and got off. Not voting Val today.

having been scum with Kay a few times, they can look very clueless and pass as town

[HighPrincessErinys]

Erinys, anybody you'd like to fade other than Alyssa?

Warming up to a Hu Tao wagon, need to crawl through some ISOs and get a refresher on what everyone's been up to otherwise.

[Rosenator]

How did I start looking better when I was posting in a delusional state…that’s a very sad realization about my game when I’m fully functioning damn lol

When you first came into the game you jumped on alyssa and then kind of got stuck waiting for a response. I though alyssa was clearly the worse wagon between rose and alyssa but backed off from dealing with you directly on it to let you have your interaction with them.

Then because you were stuck it seemed like you were resting waiting for one interaction so I was happy to jump on your wagon. But I can see in hindsight it was just awkward timing with the slot going inactive. Now you are trying to kill people I want to kill and are interacting more across the board my initial read in obsolete.

what's your take on her vote against Val between all that?

Misguided but reasonable

i think it was quite guided, actually. from my view, Kay wanted to join the wagon that was happening when she replaced into the game, but wanted to know more about it - hence the pressure on Val to get some more from him. however; Val's perspective on me is unique to him and i think it'd come across as "doubling down" to other players since he reiterates similar points.

this also gave her some time to separate from the possible counter-wagon as pointed out in 412.

having been scum with Kay a few times, they can look very clueless and pass as town

you mean like what she's admitted to many times this game? she must go on plane trips often if that's true

[Rosenator]

Erinys, anybody you'd like to fade other than Alyssa?

Warming up to a Hu Tao wagon, need to crawl through some ISOs and get a refresher on what everyone's been up to otherwise.

i've read enough of HT's posts that i'd eliminate her on the grounds of being hard to read by sake of brevity (if you never say anything, you'll never let slip you're scum!)
VOTE: Hu Tao

[HighPrincessErinys]

Erinys, anybody you'd like to fade other than Alyssa?

Warming up to a Hu Tao wagon, need to crawl through some ISOs and get a refresher on what everyone's been up to otherwise.

i've read enough of HT's posts that i'd eliminate her on the grounds of being hard to read by sake of brevity (if you never say anything, you'll never let slip you're scum!)
VOTE: Hu Tao

...?

[GreedyBanger]

Erinys, anybody you'd like to fade other than Alyssa?

Warming up to a Hu Tao wagon, need to crawl through some ISOs and get a refresher on what everyone's been up to otherwise.

i've read enough of HT's posts that i'd eliminate her on the grounds of being hard to read by sake of brevity (if you never say anything, you'll never let slip you're scum!)
VOTE: Hu Tao

...?

Offering that one brownies if they would help nuke Rose from orbit.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Erinys, anybody you'd like to fade other than Alyssa?

Warming up to a Hu Tao wagon, need to crawl through some ISOs and get a refresher on what everyone's been up to otherwise.

i've read enough of HT's posts that i'd eliminate her on the grounds of being hard to read by sake of brevity (if you never say anything, you'll never let slip you're scum!)
VOTE: Hu Tao

...?

Offering that one brownies if they would help nuke Rose from orbit.

Will think about it. Trying my hardest to give Rose the benefit of the doubt but OOF

[DArby]

I am giving at go at not making detailed wall posts outlining all the points in minute detail, so here is an attempt at TLDRing my problems with D'Arby:

I don't understand his progression from 63 to 165 - "We should investigate shin more; Shin/Alyssa is interesting but I need to know Alyssa's experiance", to "I agree with Shin's side of the argument that Alyssa's" when Shin never posts between the two - although there is the Hu Tao pivot, and he is feeling out Greedy on what half of that 'argument' they are on. I think the pop back 20 mins later after answering Alysaa at 117 feels weird in a 'been thinking about how this progression might appear when people look back later' kind of way.

I found very odd the progression between "I’d rather Hu build a case against herself while we sort the rest of town" to "As we had a game that just ended 5 minutes ago, this is a hard town read now" and back to "Hu is now a null read again" which is a huge swing on what was the

lightest

of pushback from a new player who could instantly realise why the justification for being 'hard town' was poor. Describing a single vote on Hu Tao as "putting all our eggs in one basket" in 138 stuck me as a touch oversensitive.

I don't want to re-litigate it again unless I have to, but I felt his arguments against why Alyssa's early attempt to move out of RVS with Shin was scummy AND his pushing on Rosen for 296 with Kay have been pretty poor, based on widely out-there interpretations of pretty straight-forward, but perhaps poorly-expressed, concepts like a page 2 "let's look at the slots that chose to make a different rvs vote rather than join the obvious joke-wagon", and "I can see reasons why scum!Val might try and pocket me, but also I can see a possible town motivation, so maybe I should just treat it as null overall".

I think that has then been used to cast a wide-net over the idea of as many permutations of scum Val and Rosen as possible: maybe I am scum pocketing town!Rosen, maybe I'm town blindly following scum!Rosen, maybe in fact we are both scum together in a bold wifom strategy - making it so either wagon could be justifiable, and either green flip matters not, adjust as needed. All while doing that, he's tried to hide me to a higher standard - I should have a single scum read at a time or else be solving for the team, etc.

Happy to go into any of this in more detail if I need to; but I am realising my problems playing mafia are not with my read accuracy, but with expressing myself in a way that's understandable to others, so I'll try this approach and not blurge it all at once.

1) Typing Shin in 63 was a brainfart. If you replace it with Alyssa the argument would make sense in the way i intend to. I don’t get the rest of your argument in that paragraph, tho, Ive stated multiple times that my thing against Alyssa is a push and not me feeling 100% in her being scum. That also lines up with that thought.

2) The game Hu did that ended with me showed me she does this as town. I’m familiar, to an extent, with her play style and didn’t really think that was something I wanted to go after during D1. I town and then null read Hu because I got really excited on the recent town victory and when pointed out that she could also do it as scum, it brought me back to my original position. It feels like you’re scum reading me for not having hard opinions D1 (?)

3) I’m not going in circles justifying my Alyssa argument. But yes, I’m holding you to a higher standard than the person who’s in their literal first game. I’m not saying you have to do one or the other I’m asking why you had such a hard turn after tunneling Hu and if the reads are connected. You can read me how you want but I’m trying to solve for town so I’d like to know where you’re coming from. Both the way that you and Rosen have been playing is weird. I’m calling that out.

With 257 this is your second attempt to get the heat off of you and/or Rosen. I don’t think you’re playing with town motivations.