Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[Maxous]

but it was mainly because I didn't like the way he's reacted for the most part this game.

for example?

[Bulbazak]

but it was mainly because I didn't like the way he's reacted for the most part this game.

for example?

When he reacted to Ken as if he knew he was town.

[Whiskers]

Well, that tells us Ken is town then, doesn't it?

Unvote

[TierShift]

wassup with that unvote?

[Maxous]

Well, that tells us Ken is town then, doesn't it?

we did'nt know this already?
if he is newb-scum, he is really damn good.

[Kenobi]

but it was mainly because I didn't like the way he's reacted for the most part this game.

for example?

When he reacted to Ken as if he knew he was town.

Which reaction are we talking about?

[Bulbazak]

but it was mainly because I didn't like the way he's reacted for the most part this game.

for example?

When he reacted to Ken as if he knew he was town.

Which reaction are we talking about?

Okay finally I got some net time on my comp.

Acknowledging that my point on Empking was weak, since he was trying, as Pasch said, to echo the phrasing used by Bulb.

Kenobi sidelining and not bothering to scumhunt is lame, only bothering to make a post with content after he is attacked.

Zekrom25, can you answer your questions about the vote on pasch? And I’m slow, how was his post a bait?

VOTE: Kenobi
If you’re town, step it up. If you’re scum, I request nothing of you.

[Cheery Dog]

You're right.
UNVOTE: psyche
Someone pick me a wagon I can join.

Why say this after unvoting twice in quick succession on perfectly acceptable wagons for that stage of the game? If it was that you were the only vote on said wagons you dropped off, then wouldn't the choice have been an easy join the wagon that already had multiple votes?

I felt that both posts stemmed from the same reasoning. RBD's statement is the typical level of RVS BS I'd expect. Players will make statements like that all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean there's anything to them, something that Psyche and Empking should know. Each took a different tactic in regards to that statement, but they both stem from the larger issue that they commented on a non-statement and tried to fish based off of it. Emp took a more direct approach, and Psych went with the suspicious route. At least 1 of them is likely to be scum. Looking at that, why single Psyche out, yet leave Empking be?

Was this just an attempt to have someone else join you on the empking wagon or were you suspicious of both of them yourself? You went to a lot of effort to identify both as perpetrators of what Maxous was voting my slot for at the start. In fact I'm not even sure your reasoning for your empking read has developed much more than what it existed as back in this stage.

Even if Whiskers were scum, such a quick wagon is suspicious. Scum bus, especially during RVS.

A quickwagon during rvs that didn't even reach tipping point? It's still just random guessing at that stage regardless of whether or not you think you can somehow pull a wagon analysis on something with no flips. Could I move this statement into an assumption that all wagons with 3 or more people must contain a scum?

Whiskers read on Ken is the same as mine, which is a good town-sign.

Town sign for who? Also what makes it good?

I actually did, but the main purpose of my vote was to pressure him to contribute.

I don't always vote who I think is the most scummy (can quote examples on request), you're assumption that "all votes should be place on scum" is simply not true.

Votes should be placed on people you are happy to see dead at the end of the day, generally this should be scum, no?

Beautifully done job of contradicting yourself in your own post for the sake of attempting to discredit me. You so easily lied here, prove to me that you haven't been lying this whole game.

We have another case of empking on Balb here I think. I guess it's best to ignore it as well though.

I think Tiershift is my top choice right now. I would very much like to hear people weigh in on that.

You really should weight in on your own scumreads with something useful before expecting others do to it. All I can remember about you suspecting Tier is that you thought that he was buddying up/protecting Zekrom.

@Zekrom: Forgetting to bold something makes me scummy? O.o I... wut. My vote is staying on you for the time being, because that is either the stupidest or the scummiest thing I've ever seen. Sorry.

Obviously stupidest regardless of zekrom's alignment, but this statement suggests that scum can't be stupid? The post comes across like you may actually have known Zekrom's alignment, with apologising at the end as he clearly was just stupid with that.

Ill get on the comp, and make my last words, etc. and self hammer.

I think my lynch will give plenty on info so I wouldn't mind it anymore I guess

You've already claimed you know your alignment, you believe your flip would give information. Why should that therefore involve your actual lynch?
If the information existing to you is clear to you, then you should be able to tell us what said information is - so let's pretend you actually did go through with your selfhammer, what information have we gained from your flip at the start of day 2?

@Psych - Cxi is town because of that post, but because he thought he was at L-1. If he is scum he is faking knowing that which I doubt he would have the presence of mind to do as scum.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim. The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

I(via the fact that you can't have eight scum...)

That's a good point. Actually, how many scum ARE there?

I do believe we've just received a pseudo confirmed new town.

Can someone who isn't Bulba and didn't spend all of day 1 arguing with Empking over what amounted to nothing weigh in on Emp and someone who isn't Emp weigh in on Bulba? I feel like both of them spent the whole of day 1 arguing and voting each other without giving any reasons why the rest of us would agree, which is a great distancing tactic. I think that if one of them is scum, they probably both are.

This sounds much like how you just connected people yesterday based on one thing.

Meanwhile, I should have held out for a Tiershift lynch yesterday, and I want one now.

I quoted something earlier in this post about my thoughts on your tiershift read, but can you give a recap of why we should be lynching him?

. And contrary to how much he falsely insists the opposite, Bulb never went out on a limb on anyone else. He'll poke a few people with a stick, but always went right back to Emp. And the most recent "lining up lynches" line. I've only ever seen town accused of that, because only town is actually trying to find links between people.

That second sentence doesn't sound much like scum on scum to me.
What alignments have you seen from the people using the "lining up lynches" line?

That's what I've got atm. I definitely think that emp is scummy, but I'm not going to push for him to get lynched, at least not yet. I got the answers (or lack thereof) out of him that I was after to confirm my suspicions.

Emp, you all know my feelings on, and I definitely think he's scum. The defensive scumteaming of anyone who dares call him out just lends credence, and not the clearwater revival kind.

Why don't you want to push your highest scumread? and then do continue pushing him anyway?

I also find it kind of strange that most people are townreading me this game, but whatevs.

I think they've just been putting aside all the people not posting that much, I had no read on you until I read this line, and the fact you posting it makes me think you're town.

I apologize for derailing things when I'm the subject of discussion, but let's be honest, I'm a terrible wagon.

In what way are you a terrible wagon?

Nevermind, he's gone.

Him going V/LA doesn't make your question any less valid. If you want to ask something, you need to still be expecting a reply regardless of how long it may end up taking.

That's cool we'll just lynch you next when empking flips town.

If you believe that makes cx worthy of being lynched, why are you not pushing for that lynch instead of empking today?

cool.

Also, tiershift just went into my town pool

How did he get there? Should I get a lifering?

Reading up when I'm not totally jetlagged.

Oh, cool!

Isn't it strange, we never fight like cats & dogs?

Would you like to? I'm sure it can be arranged.

VOTE: Paschendale

[cxinlee]

Cheerydog can you summarise your reads?

Votes should be placed on people you are happy to see dead at the end of the day, generally this should be scum, no?

Nah. There are two types of votes: votes that have intention to lynch, and those that have no intention of lynching. Pressure votes fall under the second category.

You've already claimed you know your alignment, you believe your flip would give information. Why should that therefore involve your actual lynch?
If the information existing to you is clear to you, then you should be able to tell us what said information is - so let's pretend you actually did go through with your selfhammer, what information have we gained from your flip at the start of day 2?

When someone gets lynched, does he not give out a info?

Eg. I can look at the wagon to see if anyone was hopping on if for weak reasons.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim. The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

Im confused here.

I was already panicking, being at L-2. I don't understand why someone asking for a claim would drive me insane, either.

And iirc whiskers' post for the claim was the previous page, and yet you are implying I didn't read the previous page. Then you imply I saw the request for a claim. Contradiction?

How did he get there? Should I get a lifering?

He has a town feel. Don't ask why.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheerydog can you summarise your reads?

Not until I'm managed some interaction between everyone so I can firm up my own opinion.

Votes should be placed on people you are happy to see dead at the end of the day, generally this should be scum, no?

Nah. There are two types of votes: votes that have intention to lynch, and those that have no intention of lynching. Pressure votes fall under the second category.

This so called "second category" doesn't exist in my opinion. (simply because noone ever uses them properly, I simply take them as normal votes)

You've already claimed you know your alignment, you believe your flip would give information. Why should that therefore involve your actual lynch?
If the information existing to you is clear to you, then you should be able to tell us what said information is - so let's pretend you actually did go through with your selfhammer, what information have we gained from your flip at the start of day 2?

When someone gets lynched, does he not give out a info?

Eg. I can look at the wagon to see if anyone was hopping on if for weak reasons.

Yes, and I'm trying to work out what that information is that we would have "gained" from it, the content we would be looking at is already there, we shouldn't need to lynch someone to have it become valid.

Let's continue with getting this information out of needing a lynch to be found, your wagon at it's peak had these votes Maxous, Aj The Epic, Rainbowdash, Pashendale, Tiershift, Whiskers. Which of these are the weak votes we would have found on seeing your flip?

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim. The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

Im confused here.

I was already panicking, being at L-2. I don't understand why someone asking for a claim would drive me insane, either.

And iirc whiskers' post for the claim was the previous page, and yet you are implying I didn't read the previous page. Then you imply I saw the request for a claim. Contradiction?

I'm suggesting you posted it after seeing whisker's post on the previous page without reading the rest of the thread.

How did he get there? Should I get a lifering?

He has a town feel. Don't ask why.

Ok, it can go in the ignore bin.

[cxinlee]

Pasch's I don't really like.

Whiskers as well.

There wasn't any specific information I was thinking of when made that post. I simply thought that there was a lot of discussion on me, thus there were bound to be clues along there.

Lets say I'm voting someone to fish for a reaction. Is it necessary that I want him lynched? No, this falls under the second category, correct?

Okay, that part is cleared up. Why exactly do you think I would freak out if someone asked me to claim?

[TierShift]

Why say this after unvoting twice in quick succession on perfectly acceptable wagons for that stage of the game? If it was that you were the only vote on said wagons you dropped off, then wouldn't the choice have been an easy join the wagon that already had multiple votes?

Uh, I specifically asked for input from other players, it was page 2 and I wanted something that could help me form a read on someone.

A quickwagon during rvs that didn't even reach tipping point? It's still just random guessing at that stage regardless of whether or not you think you can somehow pull a wagon analysis on something with no flips. Could I move this statement into an assumption that all wagons with 3 or more people must contain a scum?

Looking back on it, it was pretty stupid, but not a bad starting point to get some discussion going. I didn't realize that it didn't get to tipping point since I've only played micros/newbies before, I thought we were past it.

Cx, explain what's wrong with whiskers' vote and what your read on him is.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pasch
After reconsidering where my vote should be, I'd really rather see pasch go now. Emp has been anti-town a lot, but I don't know if there's truth in what Whiskers says about him or not. He might just be like this, deserving of a lynch, but impossible to actually read.

Pasch on the other hand I feel has been spewing hate all around and is more likely to actually flip scum than emp.

L-2 now

[Bulbazak]

I felt that both posts stemmed from the same reasoning. RBD's statement is the typical level of RVS BS I'd expect. Players will make statements like that all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean there's anything to them, something that Psyche and Empking should know. Each took a different tactic in regards to that statement, but they both stem from the larger issue that they commented on a non-statement and tried to fish based off of it. Emp took a more direct approach, and Psych went with the suspicious route. At least 1 of them is likely to be scum. Looking at that, why single Psyche out, yet leave Empking be?

Was this just an attempt to have someone else join you on the empking wagon or were you suspicious of both of them yourself? You went to a lot of effort to identify both as perpetrators of what Maxous was voting my slot for at the start. In fact I'm not even sure your reasoning for your empking read has developed much more than what it existed as back in this stage.

Maxous was pursuing Psyche for reasons that were not unique to Psyche. I wanted to know why he was pursuing Psyche specifically, when Emp had essentially done the same thing. At this point I had already ruled Psyche out due to his reaction. I didn't like Emp's reaction, so I continued to push him. Since then, Emp has continued to do nothing to scumhunt, and his scum list is composed entirely of those who suspect him.

[Maxous]

Emp has been anti-town a lot, but I don't know if there's truth in what Whiskers says about him or not. He might just be like this, deserving of a lynch, but impossible to actually read.

yes he's usually obtuse and understated.
scummy content is not his playstyle.

~

* His bulbazak scum-read: i thought the initaial vote was fine - I could understand it - but emp is still riding on it since post #33? I know emp will respond 'well bulb is still wrong about eveything' but come on.

Max: Tier is Bulbs buddy. By association that makes Bulb, Tier's buddy. Therefore every interaction tell that points to Tier being scum, also points to (possibly to a lesser extent in case of scum gambit) Bulb being scum.

Therefore every interaction tell that points to Tier being scum, also points to (possibly to a lesser extent in case of scum gambit) Bulb being scum.

You are implying that you have reasons to beleive Tier is scum independent of his association with bulb.
you did'nt mention any in #450

[Maxous]

@Psych - Cxi is town because of that post, but because he thought he was at L-1. If he is scum he is faking knowing that which I doubt he would have the presence of mind to do as scum.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim.

The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

it means what?

[Empking]

I felt that both posts stemmed from the same reasoning. RBD's statement is the typical level of RVS BS I'd expect. Players will make statements like that all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean there's anything to them, something that Psyche and Empking should know. Each took a different tactic in regards to that statement, but they both stem from the larger issue that they commented on a non-statement and tried to fish based off of it. Emp took a more direct approach, and Psych went with the suspicious route. At least 1 of them is likely to be scum. Looking at that, why single Psyche out, yet leave Empking be?

Was this just an attempt to have someone else join you on the empking wagon or were you suspicious of both of them yourself? You went to a lot of effort to identify both as perpetrators of what Maxous was voting my slot for at the start. In fact I'm not even sure your reasoning for your empking read has developed much more than what it existed as back in this stage.

Maxous was pursuing Psyche for reasons that were not unique to Psyche. I wanted to know why he was pursuing Psyche specifically, when Emp had essentially done the same thing. At this point I had already ruled Psyche out due to his reaction. I didn't like Emp's reaction, so I continued to push him. Since then, Emp has continued to do nothing to scum hunt, and his scum list is composed entirely of those who suspect him.

When half the player base claims to suspect you, that's what'll inevitably happen.

[Cheery Dog]

Pasch's I don't really like.

Whiskers as well.

There wasn't any specific information I was thinking of when made that post. I simply thought that there was a lot of discussion on me, thus there were bound to be clues along there.

Lets say I'm voting someone to fish for a reaction. Is it necessary that I want him lynched? No, this falls under the second category, correct?

Okay, that part is cleared up. Why exactly do you think I would freak out if someone asked me to claim?

Well if you can't find them now, what chances would the rest of us have? Point being lynches for what you would believe would only be for information gain, are just killing off town players.

Second category still doesn't exist in my opinion.

@Psych - Cxi is town because of that post, but because he thought he was at L-1. If he is scum he is faking knowing that which I doubt he would have the presence of mind to do as scum.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim.

The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

it means what?

Something, the exact something isn't completely clear and has no business actually being said at this point in time.

[Cheery Dog]

My theory has to do with cxlinee being town though, that's all the information that should be said about it.

[Dry-fit]

When someone gets lynched, does he not give out a info?

Eg. I can look at the wagon to see if anyone was hopping on if for weak reasons.

Not if you're dead.

I don't like the Pasch or Empking wagons. Both are among my strongest town reads. So won't change my vote except to prevent no lynch. If a Maxous wagon magically popped up though I wouldn't mind joining that.

[Aj The Epic]

Can you explain how Empking is a town read? My mind is having issues comprehending this belief. But the pasche wagon is bad. Not to mention one of the votes on him is Tiershift, who has another awful reason. "Spewing hatred" is both a lie in and of itself and a poisoning fallacy. His ease to believe Empking will play better simply because whiskers said so yet the fact that he and empking have had issues all game is a showing of contradiction. He's jumping to another clean wagon, from Emp, to the one set for a jump on Dry-fit, now to Paschedale as soon as the votes started swinging that way.

Tiershift is scum.

[TierShift]

Yeah votes started swinging that way. That's exactly why I'm on the wagon, since they are both scumreads and I'd prefer to have one of them go today. Why would I stay on the smaller wagon?

[Maxous]

unvote, vote:TierShift

L-1

can you claim please?

If a Maxous wagon magically popped up though I wouldn't mind joining that.

i'm pointing out a logic hole in his bulbazak scum-read.
I'm assume you're rebutting this?

[TierShift]

I don't claim unless intent to hammer.

[Maxous]

ok, but if you're a PR don't leave it to the last second.

[TierShift]

You strangely seem unconvinced of me being scum.