Gay Dance! [Donezo]

[chennisden]

I want this to be as painless for me as possible.

[chennisden]

Ur gay Bitmap

[chennisden]

How to win

(1) sheep chennis
(2) realize he's wrong
(3) win anyways

[chennisden]

I figured out that RC was scum in a newbie game on Day 1. Does that count?

yw for the lategame carry btw.

[chennisden]

I figured out that RC was scum in a newbie game on Day 1. Does that count?

yw for the lategame carry btw.

didnt u lynch me?

didnt i lynch CC

[chennisden]

RC discredited you btw it didn't matter to him if you figured out

[chennisden]

I figured out that RC was scum in a newbie game on Day 1. Does that count?

yw for the lategame carry btw.

didnt u lynch me?

didnt i lynch CC

In a way, didn’t I lynch CC? Clearly I deserve the credit.

Oh yeah thx for counting my fakevote

[chennisden]

RC discredited you btw it didn't matter to him if you figured out

Cause I was a serious threat that he risked the quick hammer to get me out to the point where I tainted his slot so much he couldn't exist in end game.

Sigh

[chennisden]

I mean you would've done well if you hadn't died immediately after. You died immediately after.

[chennisden]

Actually chen, it took u till Day 3 to lynch RC in that game. What the actual fuck...

Yeah and u would've mislynched Eggs

[chennisden]

fite me fitmap

[chennisden]

i had too much respect for RC to try to play powertown leader.

[chennisden]

Listen I got a good hit on the main boss and knocked him down to critical health. CC was just a mini boss.

CC is a scummy scum god

[chennisden]

Actually, I was really pissed that RC told newbies that quickhammering was normal and not AI.

Quickhammering is just gay

[chennisden]

tbh if there are zero scum in vec/ausuka or nim/gamma im leaving

Can we fucking not be braindead
Re-sort the damn game instead of rage-quitting when your narrow-minded game view is ruined you ignorant fucks

Ank already left

[chennisden]

GE you should probs give up on responding to the thread

You're 500 posts behind

[chennisden]

GE you should probs give up on responding to the thread

You're 500 posts behind

HOW MANY OF YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES HAVE ALREADY LEFT

2

2

PAIRS

[chennisden]

People need to not rand leave the game

People need to not leave the game

Post 80 isn't something I want to have to quote again

[chennisden]

It legitimately might be a good idea to off another pair before nimerald

thoughts on who?

[chennisden]

Whatever

Can people start leaving now or something

YOU ARE AN IDIOT

i actually explicitly wanted ank not to leave and vecna leaving was disappointing.

[chennisden]

GE is town.

duh

[chennisden]

gamma's not getting lynched

[chennisden]

What about scum Fitmap

[chennisden]

No ur not

[chennisden]

Lame

[chennisden]

it's not really AI.

[chennisden]

Fire oka and Chenn bingle is the best endgame proposed imo.

Why not Piekura

It's pretty much a guaranteed town win

Still not seeing why GifMap and Sakupie don't endgame

Because GifMap isn't the most towny pair

[chennisden]

so the leave didn't get counted?

[chennisden]

I guess apparently the leave doesn't count.

[chennisden]

Because it was after a leave but before it got counted ig

[chennisden]

That's a little silly

[chennisden]

Okay ur spewed town beyond a doubt Ausuka

[chennisden]

And Vecna too

[chennisden]

I think

[chennisden]

Ok sakura, hope you get better!

[chennisden]

Let me condense pie's post:

THIS GAME ISNT ABOUT YOUR EGO. AND IF I LOSE THIS GAME TO AN EGOMANIAC LEAVING SO PEOPLE SHEEP THEM I WILL BE MAD.

[chennisden]

Fb you know I spammed the PT and memed with Bingle the whole night right...?

[chennisden]

Great were gonna run through Bitmap and Nimeuh pairs probably in that order.

[chennisden]

Fb can you promise you wont lolleave. Oka is obvtown

[chennisden]

Btw Bingle has been quite transparently town in the PT and he prolly pairs with Croag if he's scum.

[chennisden]

I understand

[chennisden]

I think if we lost to Bingle we kinda deserve it though. And if we lose to pretty much anyone else we don't.

[chennisden]

Bingle has had some really good takes in the PT and I guess I'll make him obvtown

[chennisden]

Tinfoil theory both scum are probably in the same pair.

[chennisden]

If scum had half a brain they'd see it for what it is. Bitmap's team was obviously not the endgame pair and not a good kill and I don't think

anyone

had a hard time seeing that.

[chennisden]

I think there's a real chance they are but this prolly should happen

[chennisden]

Here's why I think the final scum are in the same pair:

(1) the kill on the IC indicates that scum DOESN'T need me dead to win. I.e. that they just need to be in the final pairing. In fact scum has a clear path to victory - lynch the other two pairs don't get lynched and then Sakura leaves then they go "yeet bye bye"
(2) there's been A LOT OF PAIRS defending their partner rly hard. if ur irrationally defending ur partner rly hard u can just die anyway tbh.

[chennisden]

I think there's a real chance they are but this prolly should happen

How do you think this game works without Bitmap being scum? I can't really see how it fits together unless you think we're wrong about Fire or if Bingle is scum.

do i get points back when they flip town or how are we doing the point system pie?

You get half credit back if they flip town.

I think both scum are in the same pair.

[chennisden]

And you could be wrong on Fire, but I don't think Fire/Oka

is

the scum pair.

[chennisden]

Lemme talk about gifmap.

They've been defending each other really hard the entire game and i think their "nk bait" is a terrible justification for their play.

i think this could just end the game. and if it doesn't we might need to re-evaluate the fire/oka pair.

[chennisden]

lemme just make the gamestate clear.

it's VERY LIKELY that the final scum are paired IMO. and are in the gays. explains croag's death since it was kinda inevitable looking.

we are

never lynching

{Chengle}
{SakuPie}

I would also be really happy if Sakura decided not to lolleave at mylo so we could lynch ALL THREE other pairs but I accept that this won't happen. Also this is probably why some of you folks are okay townbinning Pie so fine.

Our lynchpool is

{Gifmap}
{Fireoka}
{Nimerald}

We can only lynch

two of them

and we need to find the pair with both scum. This fits a lot of my thoughts on the gamestate (Croag just

dying

, Gay pairs defending each other very hard, etc.) Now I think Firoka fits this mould the least and Gifmap fits it the best. I don't think this is a case of "too easy to be true" (w.r.t. the pairing being scum scum). ALSO if I'm wrong it could just be Bitmap scum.

Thoughts?

[chennisden]

Here's why I think the final scum are in the same pair:

(1) the kill on the IC indicates that scum DOESN'T need me dead to win. I.e. that they just need to be in the final pairing. In fact scum has a clear path to victory - lynch the other two pairs don't get lynched and then Sakura leaves then they go "yeet bye bye"
(2) there's been A LOT OF PAIRS defending their partner rly hard. if ur irrationally defending ur partner rly hard u can just die anyway tbh.

I don't think Nimu/GE is a scum pair, since I don't think Nimu's pre-read and defense of GE works if GE is scum (her meta was accurate tbh), only if it's Nimu-scum GE-town.

I've had thoughts of GIF-bitmap being a scum pair but I doubt it? Idk.

If Nimu/Gemerald isn't a scumpair then we don't lynch them I guess

Idk maybe it's too easy to be true but if Gif is playing this way as scum it can explain the gamestate and their play in general.

[chennisden]

Here's why I think the final scum are in the same pair:

(1) the kill on the IC indicates that scum DOESN'T need me dead to win. I.e. that they just need to be in the final pairing. In fact scum has a clear path to victory - lynch the other two pairs don't get lynched and then Sakura leaves then they go "yeet bye bye"
(2) there's been A LOT OF PAIRS defending their partner rly hard. if ur irrationally defending ur partner rly hard u can just die anyway tbh.

I don't think Nimu/GE is a scum pair, since I don't think Nimu's pre-read and defense of GE works if GE is scum (her meta was accurate tbh), only if it's Nimu-scum GE-town.

I've had thoughts of GIF-bitmap being a scum pair but I doubt it? Idk.

If Nimu/Gemerald isn't a scumpair then we don't lynch them I guess

Idk maybe it's too easy to be true but if Gif is playing this way as scum it can explain the gamestate and their play in general.

[chennisden]

Here's why I think the final scum are in the same pair:

(1) the kill on the IC indicates that scum DOESN'T need me dead to win. I.e. that they just need to be in the final pairing. In fact scum has a clear path to victory - lynch the other two pairs don't get lynched and then Sakura leaves then they go "yeet bye bye"
(2) there's been A LOT OF PAIRS defending their partner rly hard. if ur irrationally defending ur partner rly hard u can just die anyway tbh.

I don't think Nimu/GE is a scum pair, since I don't think Nimu's pre-read and defense of GE works if GE is scum (her meta was accurate tbh), only if it's Nimu-scum GE-town.

I've had thoughts of GIF-bitmap being a scum pair but I doubt it? Idk.

Uh I think if they flip the same alignment my theory is prolly right and that corners scum anyway

[chennisden]

Like gifmap both flips town. (and if they both flip scum)

[chennisden]

Who do you think is scum

[chennisden]

Ugh

Is it FB/Bitmap

[chennisden]

Pie do you think Fb/bitmap could make sense and gif just got pocketed

maybe maybe maybe??

[chennisden]

This game is rly hard now that Ank took away a mislynch spot geez

[chennisden]

Let me say it this way FB

even if Gif/Bit is T/T

they're still not

towny

. Do you get the difference? Town isn't necessarily

towny

.

[chennisden]

ur read on them is bs since nobody thinks bitmap is flipping town

[chennisden]

w/e

the town pairs will dictate the lynches.

[chennisden]

pie we're lynching two of {gifmap} {firoka} {nimerald} in some order (assuming we don't catch the scum pair by our first lynch)

what do you want the order to be?

[chennisden]

btw - if scum isn't in a pair then they trust themselves to discredit town enough to mislynch one of them.

[chennisden]

i think {gifmap nimerald} ends the game.

[chennisden]

uh just a rough idea would be nice

where do you go if:
1) gifmap flips t/t
2) gif flips t and bit flips s

[chennisden]

i don't think gif flipping s and bit flipping t is gonna happen and i think there's a real chance they flip s/s but we don't need to discuss that

[chennisden]

okay uh

games are won by townies taking

contingency measures

- if they're gonna win anyway they're gonna win. but townies prepare enough for that. what townies need to prepare for is the unexpected - i really think we should take a look at where we go wrt firoka/nimerald before we lynch gifmap.

also, if your answers for 1) and 2) end up being the same pair X, we should maybe lynch X first.

[chennisden]

as for 1) - if this is a t/t mislynch i don't think scum need to really

drive

the wagon. and i'd look at who's trying to position themselves to gain something by taking stances on the wagon that'll look good.

[chennisden]

I don't really have faith in my reads this game (in case that wasn't totally obvious lololol).

I guess I do think Fire and Oka can go to endgame if GIF-bmp is a T/T pair.

so you'd lynch nimerald?

[chennisden]

if you'd lynch nimerald in both cases the gifmap lynch doesn't really give you anything, does it?

[chennisden]

we're

off

somewhere and scum made an inconsequential kill because the path we're on leads to a scum victory often.

if gifmap flips t/t i'd look at firebringer's positioning around the pair with a lot more scrutiny to determine whether they're real or informed.

[chennisden]

games are won by townies taking contingency measures - if they're gonna win anyway they're gonna win. but townies prepare enough for that. what townies need to prepare for is the unexpected - i really think we should take a look at where we go wrt firoka/nimerald before we lynch gifmap.

i don't think this is true in the slightest.

the "easy way" probably leads to a scum win

[chennisden]

argh, this game is hard

[chennisden]

Last few games I don't think so

[chennisden]

Fb what do you think of my S/S pairing theory.

[chennisden]

Last two scum paired up in the gays.

[chennisden]

we're

off

somewhere and scum made an inconsequential kill because the path we're on leads to a scum victory often.

if gifmap flips t/t i'd look at firebringer's positioning around the pair with a lot more scrutiny to determine whether they're real or informed.

This is a part of why I wonder about Bingle. I can definitely give you the stance that if I turn out being wrong, but then GE/Nimu contains scum it'd be down to Fire and Bingle for the last one, but that was sort of obvious.

I rly think Bingle is town

Ig I see why you might not see it.

[chennisden]

Lemme see

How many pages is ur PT pie

[chennisden]

Last two scum paired up in the gays.

ummmmm okay.

u think if another lesbian existed they would have paired with croag or something? because i think players like pie was always going to pair with sakura for instance.

I think a good characterization of most gay pairings is that they've hard defended each other all game.

And some gay people were trying to imply that Croag was townier

[chennisden]

10 pages.

[chennisden]

idrk if i can reconstruct bingle's thought processes rly well here which is why i've been pushing for him to obvtown in the thread.

i think he's done ok but i WILL make him effort. ank put us close enough to a loss already by impulse leaving and we really don't need more of people not winning when they can.

[chennisden]

Last two scum paired up in the gays.

ummmmm okay.

u think if another lesbian existed they would have paired with croag or something? because i think players like pie was always going to pair with sakura for instance.

I think a good characterization of most gay pairings is that they've hard defended each other all game.

And some gay people were trying to imply that Croag was townier

does hard defending = scum or just player doesn't want to get lynched?

the way it's happening is scummy.

[chennisden]

10 pages.

it's kind of sad how bingle has tried harder in the pt to be honest.

[chennisden]

229 posts.

[chennisden]

the way it's happening is scummy.

so ur way of defending of bingle isn't? got ya

i think scum realizes they can't shade me and are going for bingle

[chennisden]

Hi bingle

Can you obvtown

[chennisden]

the way it's happening is scummy.

so ur way of defending of bingle isn't? got ya

i think scum realizes they can't shade me and are going for bingle

u know if scum have been shading u, u should prolly point them out, right?

Idk whether specific instances are scum or town

In particular I think Pie has been the one most guilty of this but she self resolves idk

[chennisden]

What does having more pages matter anyway.
It just means you guys like posting more.

it means we're SWEATIES

[chennisden]

im a tryhard

[chennisden]

You take that back or I'm suing for defamation.

[chennisden]

i get fb

explain oka to me bingle?

[chennisden]

im not terribly opposed to letting fb/oka just endgame rn

[chennisden]

idk fb

this game is hard.

[chennisden]

just don't leave me and we're gonna win.

[chennisden]

This is a world, with you and me

We can reach our destinyyyy

[chennisden]

how opposed am i to just let pie determine every lynch?

[chennisden]

idk pie has been right on pretty much everything so far

[chennisden]

Now here's where I currently am at with reads.

Town (I think all of these are just obvious at this point):
Sakura
chen
Oka

Null-town:
GIF -- don't really have any reason to consider him scum and I doubt his play this game is fake.
Fire -- going off everyone else's meta here;

Null:
Bingle -- I lean slightly town here but it's a really weak read; like I said I don't know if scum him approaches the game this way and what he has done while he has been here seems sort of genuine, definitely open to reconsideration on this though.
GE -- I've sort of just reconsidered my read here I guess.

Remaining:
Nimueh -- a lot of her thought processes don't look genuine. A lot of forced flips on reads based on posts that really aren't major points. Reads like scum having difficulty forming genuine read progressions so she scrambles and latches onto whatever she can get. I think for believing so strongly Vecna was town her defense of the pair was very soft as if she wanted to get towncred for being right without stopping the lynch (scum in her position basically couldn't actually stop the lynch since doing that is sort of a death trap, and needed a lot of towncred on both her own slot and GE).
Bitmap -- hated his play at the end of predance/through 1st day, his read progressions didn't look genuine to me and it reads strongly scum motivated in that once people started consolidating town pairs (particularly me/Sakura) he needs to find reasons to throw shade on us to keep us from having too much sway; absolutely hated his jump onto the Vecna wagon, read like scum playing wait-and-see until it felt likely the wagon would go through and then going with the flow; there's more I could point out and I'll probably break this all down in a separate post if I need to but I really hope people can step back and look at his play here again.

Btw ik people have been dismissing fire's slot as "eh town i'll deal with it later meta" but i'd like to ask - who had this meta to begin with?

i think fb/oka is our highest priority slot solve since whether we win this game or not is kinda dependent on it

[chennisden]

i thought u solved in the pt with chennisden? or was chennisden inflating that?

when did i say we

solved

it?

[chennisden]

it means he's super townie?

[chennisden]

idk i think ank wanted to lynch bitmap, and i know ausuka did

lemme see

[chennisden]

I think sakura also said i am town based on meta.

which i think both their meta reads sux. I am so obviously scum it hurts.

no u

[chennisden]

super townie: the state of being like chennisden

[chennisden]

Come at my house to bury me 6:00PM ty

[chennisden]

Eh maybe that was it.

[chennisden]

Ank called Bitmap out for the "reads respect" and Ausuka voted bitmap after intermission didn't start

[chennisden]

Yo sak if it's ur pair and my pair endgame can you not leave

are you afraid of the mighty firecringer?

[chennisden]

is this the fourth or is it not?

[chennisden]

if town okapoka could have been manipulated by scum

idk that's the impression i got

[chennisden]

idk do we rly lynch bit rn

[chennisden]

Yeah idk if i can lock bingle as town

[chennisden]

did u want the pagetop.

[chennisden]

he's really towny but i don't know if he's literally always town.

[chennisden]

YOUR READ 180S ARE GOING TO DRIVE ME BONKERS

i didn't call him scum ?

i just said i couldn't lock him as town.

[chennisden]

lemme see

let's say bingle's scum

he pairs with me, someone who was likely to be d1 lynch, instead of saving his scumbuddy

idk why he'd do that

like as for a partner for bingle literally the best i can offer is bingle/pie and that's a terrible theory

[chennisden]

if i leave the dance, it is because chennisden drove me nuts.

FB WHY ARE YOU NOT SPENDING TIME RECONSIDERING

[chennisden]

idrk what bingle had to gain by pairing with me over croag

[chennisden]

@bingle: who would you pair with as scum out of {chenn croag}? why?

[chennisden]

he pairs with me, someone who was likely to be d1 lynch, instead of saving his scumbuddy

Well.
There's flaws in this, first of all, wouldnt people have lynched groak anyway?
And he didnt look he knew what was going on, he was just like "what am i doing" and you told him to accept.

croag was very lynchable yes

idk why he'd trust my take over his scumteam's take if he was scum

[chennisden]

Bingle n croag pair would die d1 so pairing with you is taking a gamble

So is bingle a gambler

I think people described his scumgame as very "straight"

[chennisden]

lemme see

let's say bingle's scum

he pairs with me, someone who was likely to be d1 lynch, instead of saving his scumbuddy

idk why he'd do that

like as for a partner for bingle literally the best i can offer is bingle/pie and that's a terrible theory

I don't think there was any universe where he could justify pairing with croag.

True

[chennisden]

I didn't expect bingle to actually effort

[chennisden]

Firebringer why are you town reading croag?

[chennisden]

And that reminds me, chennisden called the groak flip "scum" even after that.

was it rly not obvious?

[chennisden]

@bingle: who would you pair with as scum out of {chenn croag}? why?

The question is largely moot. I'd never have made the decision myself here. I'd have discussed with croag and third scumbuddy in the pt, drawn it out, and made a big showing of how town I was while choosing between you.

My scum meta is to adopt one of three scum strats based on the playerlist and their expectations of me as well as the competency of my partners. If I thought I could propel my third partner to endgame based on it, I would absolutely have paired with you. I don't give a shit about endgaming, and in fact prefer setting up a different scum to deepwolf when I have the opportunity, just like I did with Dunn in Succinct mafia.

I have the ability to powerwolf and take over the town, but it's not my go to move. That's why my ideal scum partner is someone like RC. I can set him up to be townread when I flip but stay around long enough to make sure that I'm going to be able to take over if he gets fucked by mechanics.

Okay but that kinda means you can only be scum with pie?

[chennisden]

okay

[chennisden]

i was moreso pointing out that okapoka actually wasn't TRing croag at the end.

[chennisden]

i think that was obvious oka

[chennisden]

Okay but that kinda means you can only be scum with pie?

Objectively my most likely scumpartner here is Fire. If Ank wasn't cleared, she definitely has the level of trust from me to be the endgame buddy.

actually you're right, but i don't think you have a reason to correct me as scum

[chennisden]

idk.

possible bingle teams can probably be dealt with p easy

[chennisden]

like if pie/fire redflip i guess that's where i can deal with bingle on my own

[chennisden]

fb am i driving u crazy.

[chennisden]

im losing my hold on the game FIRE CRINGER HELP

[chennisden]

if me and pie both flip red the game is over

i meant either you or pie

[chennisden]

u should, i am an excellent chennis.

[chennisden]

both wagons are interesting.

[chennisden]

if you think my wallpoop was just meta you should really re-read it.

[chennisden]

fb why u gotta be so LAZY

[chennisden]

hi idk who to vote

hi idk who to vote im chennis

[chennisden]

if you think my wallpoop was just meta you should really re-read it.

You're correct, there was AtE mixed in too.

i think u missed the main point

[chennisden]

ank also lolleft

[chennisden]

to be clear bitmap: it's the pie side that concerns you?

[chennisden]

Good luck on the Lan!

[chennisden]

so you think the nim slot is also t/t?

[chennisden]

Monday I dropped a couple of associative based clears on Oka/GiF and outright admitted to not having read the game.

I scumread GR, but didn't want to push there because I thought keeping Ank around until lategame was positive equity. I reiterated I wasn't gonna tryhard.

I admitted to a lack of experience with sakura and pie, and commented that the pressure falling on chenn and not me in the light of a croag flip was super hinky. Notably, chenn was freaking out around that time about how all the reads on him were garbagetier.

Chenn, at this point expresses that no one is pushing me because I haven't done anything to push and that he fully trusts me as town. I promise that I'll make lynching us feel like pulling teeth, and he calms down.

I made pretty much the same point about bit that I just made, and then said something about 2278, which apparently I did not like at all. I'm not sure what post that was, but presumably it makes me dislike bitmap. Chenn hard agrees on bitmap, then immediately returns to worrying about paranoia about us.

Chenn expresses tr on Vec, I agree with Ank's posts. I promise to ISO when I have time, then leave to play with an insurance company (Good news btw, they decided to over cover me because of the giant fucking pita they put me through with the paperwork chasing and I'm getting about twice what I rightfully should under my coverage because they're trying to appease me for being fuckwits).

I come back to agree Pie is town AF and that further, the Ank interactions make them mutually strong townreads. I double down on a Vecna sr after reading the ISO, and chenn agrees saying he pushed for Choag, but pretty quickly decides that he wants to play around Vecna town. I decide I'm gonna straight up sheep ank because all of my sr's (fire/bit/sakura) at this point are people I don't trust myself to accurately scumread.

I note that Vec was not one of the people who pushed us post croag and had in fact been absent. The people who had, for reference, are Sakura and GR. Clearly GR is not a concern, but this implies to me that Sakura is not S/S with Chenn.

I note that Vec has little partner equity with any living player, but that I want to see how people react to the wagon before weighing in to break the wagon ITT, and chen agrees. I also note that I expect Ausuka to be one of the more readable slots as she starts posting and interacting more, because it's my impression that she mostly plays mafia to be town.

Chen expresses worry about GiF's push being aimed at Ausuka

I note that pie is a potential Vec partner, but no one else really is, and I'm hard tr'ing Pie.

Chen expresses that Bingdis Piekura and Vecsuka are probably 6 town players. I agree.


AND -> Ank leaves the game.

this is our PT mas o menos

[chennisden]

my posts keep getting deleted im done

you can go back

[chennisden]

Oh chen let me rub you the wrong way even further.
I actually had no read on Ausuka when I started pushing her.

nice

[chennisden]

you can use the "back" button to get your post back btw.

its not that bad.

[chennisden]

how about no

[chennisden]

(in response to lolleaving.)

[chennisden]

So Fire is obvtown now.
What happens?

I take it based on the fact you brought up leaving that you're coming around to bitmap scum?

P-edit: -.-

no fire literally townslipped so he becomes obvtown now.

che?

[chennisden]

no how did he townslip?

[chennisden]

no how did he townslip?

I don't have a third scum rn which kind of bothers me. Maybe I will get it by poe.

Townslip btw

I don't get how it's a townslip

[chennisden]

Wrong

We already caught the first scum he's talking about he has a grasp on who the second scum is but NOT the third scum.

[chennisden]

Bingle scum implies he had a really deep partner D1

[chennisden]

Idk who was rly deep D1

Mostly piekura and gifmap

[chennisden]

Okay

[chennisden]

Why not omgus ankamius instead

[chennisden]

I found the interactions at the end of the day between chennis, bingle, and croag to be rather odd. I never understood the "bingle was more town than croag" when bingle was just as lurky as croag.

Anywho, time to kick and scream till I get my lynch just like in Starry Night.

VOTE: pienyan-Sakura Hana

VOTE: gif/bitmap
do this tomorrow.

actually it started before the omgussing.

[chennisden]

before it could've been omgusing.

[chennisden]

Why do u think FB is scum in that case?

[chennisden]

At 6p mylo u lose if pie is town

and pie is TOWN

[chennisden]

At 6p mylo u lose if pie is town

and pie is TOWN

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Why

[chennisden]

clap clap clap

[chennisden]

My scum meta is

(1) half-hearted
(2) randomly tunnely
(3) very flip floppy

Whereas my town meta is

(1) jokey
(2) when I make a serious post my Alignment is Kinda Obvious
(3) I fight very hard to make sure Everyone Knows I'm Town

Like, let's talk scumgames. We have a Newbie (my first game and outdated), Mini 2070 (first relevant scumgame, though again bad), Restless Spirits (compromised by RAS, but obvious Scum was Gonna Win) and Gameshow Mafia (thanks for the carry Ig).

In ALL OF THEM, I have had (1) halfhearted/random tunnels. (2) I pushed or helped push a lot of bad stuff through and (3) I had a ton of weird reversals. I guess I'll link to the games where I fill out the checklist.

MINI 2070:
(1) viewtopic.php?p=10877022#p10877022, viewtopic.php?p=10877026#p10877026
(2) viewtopic.php?p=10868407#p10868407
(3) viewtopic.php?p=10884151#p10884151

RESTLESS SPIRITS:
(1) viewtopic.php?p=11031228#p11031228
(2) viewtopic.php?p=11031214#p11031214
(3) viewtopic.php?p=11023298#p11023298

GAMESHOW MAFIA:
(1) viewtopic.php?p=10923743#p10923743
(2) viewtopic.php?p=10898847#p10898847
(3) viewtopic.php?p=10901923#p10901923

As scum part of the difference is that I'm happy with the amount of towncredit that it takes to lead town off of a cliff. As town I'm not satisfied until the entire lobby reads me as town. I guess the exception is Grey Flag Nightless but the game was over too quick and the scum were obvious anyway. I guess I'd be like "here's a cliff now jump off of it" and then my partners just take advantage of the chaos that I cause and then easily claim town leader after they lead on me. It's what happened in Gameshow Mafia. It's what I tried to do in Mini 2070. It was unnecessary in Mini 2077 (because the scumteam already won by that point).
--
Having shallow townreads on me that scum can easily discredit only helps scum. I guess Firebringer would say something like "stop flailing and catch scum" but I don't think that's really accurate. (1) I usually demand more room than this to work with as town. (2) This is a

townhunting game.

(3) It's kinda pointless during Pre-dance anyway and (4) I did the only thing I can at this point (choosing Jingle over Croag). Like I guess you can disagree with the choice but I mean the intent is obvious.

And it's not like I'm cherrypicking examples. I literally did a 2-3 minute skim for each of those games to find that. I don't think the same is remotely applicable here.
--
Now I guess let's look at my town Meta. The most recent non-trivial non-Newbie game was Mini 2081 (at least non trivial when I replaced in).

Here's the jokey part: viewtopic.php?p=11040738#p11040738 (I guess you can look down a couple posts too for more examples)
Here's the part where I try to make the whole lobby townread me: viewtopic.php?p=11042874#p11042874

I guess my alignment wasn't Really That Obvious when I posted in that game. But I mean if you look at some of my latest Newbies I kinda do try to strongarm the entire town to townread me. As scum I think I've gotten enough towncredit to lead town off a cliff a little and do the rest of the things I usually do. I could just call Some Slot scum and be done with it, say "Oops! They were town!" and then be done with it, and then rinse and repeat as scum. I also just don't do this kinda thing as scum.
--
I think I've covered all my bases. I've pulled up examples of where my general scum play differs from this, where my general town play lines up with this, and how I'm not pushing the scum wincon. (Re: the last point. I'm either the wincon of the team but then I should've taken pie/Ausuka or I'm not the wincon of the team in which case this is pointless if not actively detrimental to my team because I can push town off a cliff already, with a bit of effort.) I don't really think general discredits should be given any merit like "oh but he's flailing." ANd I guess Post 1440 really encompasses everything wrong with the mentality of "well you could do something

else

." No I really can't. If I'm not trying to endgame I need to push an agenda and set up my partners to endgame. The cognitive dissonance is when you think "chennis is def scum pushing an agenda" then you think "but I'ma be ok with the agenda or variants to what he's pushing" AND think that "Look at this agenda that he definitely needs to push." (Hint: I don't need to push it.) I guess if you could come up with some specific stuff that's bothering you I could address it better.
--
I guess scumreading wise I might be a bit lost but I don't think you're much better off if you're still scumreading me despite (1) me being quite transparently town and (2) you having nowhere to go regardless of what I flip. So Firebringer I think it's a bit hypocritical of you to tell me "stop whining and get some reads" when the only one you have is completely terrible. You're thinking "oh Pie might be his partner" but that's a deluded solve and it's contributing needless and wrong paranoia on her slot as well. Me doing these things is kinda risking her endgame status so unless you think we're conspiring with our third scumbuddy in GiF/Bitmap to endgame it really doesn't make sense either. And if you think the scumteam is Chennis/Pie/{GiF/Bitmap} then you should take the tinfoil hat off. Is Chennis/Pie/{GiF/Bitmap} the hill you want to die on? Or do you want to reconsider your reads on Chennis/Pie?
--
As town, I care about being townread a lot. I think it's kind of obvious by my recent games especially this one, where I pushed almost exclusively myself as town. The only real scumread I had was wrong and tunnel-y and I broke out of it eventually. Really my towngame is just obvtowning, pushing to get the room I need, and making a couple of good choices that win the game for town. I think one of the most important things as town is not getting mislynched and that's why recently a lot of people have been able to locktown me easily, especially with my distinctive towngame and my less-than-adequate scumgame. I think it's really telling that some people are determined to tunnel me without even attempting to reconsider. GiF has asked a few of you to read Mini 2070 and from the looks of it you clearly haven't. Either you're scum or just approaching my slot in really terrible faith. Please stop.
--
This is the hardest I've towntelled in a while and a lot of people are willing to locktown me for a lot less. Maybe try casting the tinfoil aside?

I guess in summary,

are we still talking like chenn isn't obvtown

All of my scumgames are here.

[chennisden]

Okay but that kinda means you can only be scum with pie?

Objectively my most likely scumpartner here is Fire. If Ank wasn't cleared, she definitely has the level of trust from me to be the endgame buddy.

@Pie wrt Bingle/FB

[chennisden]

Perfect, ty.

Right minus a newbie game but that was my first one onsite and is kinda irrelevant

[chennisden]

btw if i was scum i'd kill oka/fb - i could mislynch every pair minus that one.

[chennisden]

gifmap - duh
sakupie - it mislynches itself
cheekyshiro - probably would happen anyway

[chennisden]

You know if for some godforsaken reason I'm wrong on chen and he drastically upped his scumgame since Mini 2070, #3933 will be my only saving grace.
Ank unfortunately left the game too early thus she does not even get a chance to post one.

i think the transition from obvscum -> this takes a long time.

[chennisden]

btw if i was scum i'd kill oka/fb - i could mislynch every pair minus that one.

I thought you were saying your scumgame was terrible?

It is

But I'd also have a partner so

[chennisden]

I guess it's a sign how shit this gamestate is if literally every pair can be lynched minus fire/oka

[chennisden]

And that's assuming they're both town

[chennisden]

that's also something he doesn't need to hold himself to - just pretend to be afk.

[chennisden]

we can't hold both of you to it

it's one or the other.

[chennisden]

the problem is sakua is more paranoid of pei.

[chennisden]

see this is what we call town imploding

[chennisden]

pei.

lol'd

hi sakua how r u

[chennisden]

I somehow feel like the better play is to just leave after GIF if bitmap's town and then let town figure it out from there.

no.

[chennisden]

btw ank's intent was that bingle be town leader. not sure what that's worth

[chennisden]

tbh im mostly tempted to make bingle be town leader and see if that helps with him.

[chennisden]

btw ank's intent was that bingle be town leader. not sure what that's worth

Better option than you leading that's for sure

Sure thing pal

[chennisden]

rip

[chennisden]

Probably me n fire

Now that I said that fire is going to leave on meeee

why.

[chennisden]

nice.

[chennisden]

let's not give chennis panic attacks ty.

[chennisden]

Why is he going to leave on you.

[chennisden]

Wow.

[chennisden]

I'm amazed at what this game has turned into, to be honest.

[chennisden]

I'm amazed at what this game has turned into, to be honest.

really? this is pretty normal.

WHY

[chennisden]

jesus fuck

[chennisden]

don't make me leave on u firecringer.

[chennisden]

bitmap no.

[chennisden]

im gonna go rest.

[chennisden]

nah. im getting used to the cringer.

[chennisden]

I'd leave right now if not for the fact that being alive is how to escape you GiF

[chennisden]

Do u play inklings in smash.

[chennisden]

The intent is clear

[chennisden]

why