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Post Post #6050 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:33 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 6048, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 6046, Dannflor wrote:I remember S_S making multi-colored reads lists as scum
can you find it?
Spoiler:
Subject: Baton Pass [Game Over!]
Something_Smart wrote:
Look, I don't understand what the big fuss is about, all right? This is how these things are meant to go. Yeah, I've ordered the execution of a few chickens in my day. I'm sure we all have. I didn't mean anything by it, though-- it was only business. Always business. He knows that.

As for concerns to my safety, they're played up significantly. Taking shelter in the Far East is all the rage these days, but it's not really my style. I'm perfectly safe here. A chicken opens his door and gets stabbed and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks.

P.S. Oka-- I would appreciate it if you would send back those papers you retrieved from my man; they contain some valuable information that I would hate to lose. As a token of my unending goodwill, I shall share some writings from papers in my possession that I have as of late been unable to decipher:


Something_Smart
- Dab on the haters. I'm putting myself in my readlist. Know why? 'Cause I'm genuine with a capital G and that rhymes with T and that stands for Town.

Firebringer
- I believe Nancy when she says that she can read Sakura like a book. I personally got the impression that she was reasonably genuine in her pushes and Fire hasn't done anything that's tripped my radar, so I feel comfortable trusting this. As for the CC/Fire possibility, well, I think it's remote. See below.

Celestial Coordinates
- I really have to consider RC and Nancy separately. I think I understand Nancy pretty well. I wasn't fooled by her in Merchant's Daughter and I can usually tell when she seems off. She doesn't. Her reads and interactions, especially her insistently defending me, don't seem agenda motivated. She also isn't deferring to RC's reads which I'd expect her to do as scum. RC... is RC. His scumrange is basically unlimited. But the way this has gone-- between the double scumflip followed by double push on LHF, to the way he's backed off and isn't trying to control the game at what could be the critical point of the game, to the times he's gotten into huge arguments with Shoshin and Oka only to turn around and call them town-- seems like it would be RC deliberately making things harder on himself.

Dannflor
- I finally realized what it was that put the idea in my head that Dannflor was this fantastic deepwolf as scum. It was a combination of that Bacde quote he had in his sig and that hellhole marathon game. I've decided to willfully ignore the possibility that he is a super strong manipulator and just focus on his posting. Which has, this phase, been very genuine. Particularly his readlist which I am now emulating. It seems like all the pressure he's received hasn't made him scared or reserved-- on the contrary, it's caused him to put more effort in, which is generally a defiant town reaction.

Volpe14
- Okay now we play the Shoshin limbo game. As in, how low would she be willing to go as scum? The trust tell business is really awful no matter her alignment, but she expressed it in such a way that I am inclined to believe it. Probably more relevant, though, is her pushback against RC. I'm straight-up ruling out the possibility of a CC/Shoshin team crossing lines like that just for theater. With that out of the way, Shoshin-scum would be antagonizing the person most dangerous to her, knowing full well that she was never going to get RC lynched. I don't know how Shoshin works, so I can't say it's out of the question, but it seems suboptimal.

Oversoul
- I don't really have a strong opinion on Oversoul. This sounds weird, given that I've fought with him more than anyone else this game, but it's true. That fight was about me being able to see his actions as coming from scum, which I still can. To the best of my knowledge, everyone defending Oversoul is using meta to justify it, which surprises me-- I don't think the way he's playing would be out of the scumrange of most people with his experience.

OkaPoka
- The big question here is whether he would double bus his partners on D1. And to put it bluntly, I have no clue. I originally thought he wouldn't but it seems that I misremembered the timing of it and he actually only really came around to Wisdom/gameplay after RC had locked on them. Regarding his response to RC's case, I can see him thinking the victim play is his best shot as scum. I don't think it was done in a way that's unlikely to be fake.

Gay Dance Gone Wrong
- Who? This isn't a scumread so much as a "can't live to LYLO" read. They somehow have like 800 posts or some shit and I don't remember any of them.

Tr1ckster
- Also a "can't live to LYLO" read. I don't even think Enter's been overtly scummy at all, he's just been so disruptive it's hard to get a bead on what he's actually doing. And Nacho thought this slot was scum, so, well, respect for the dead.
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Post Post #6051 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:35 am

Post by Datisi »

am i dumb for thinking gl is townie for posting around page 215?

like, i think at that point tweet has probably said "uh oh guys i'm gonna die" in the scum pt and like, i struggle seeing scum!gl then go and write big cases on obscure
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #6052 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:38 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 6046, Dannflor wrote:I remember S_S making multi-colored reads lists as scum
Is this a justification for your unvote? Can you generalize it into a statement on my town vs scum play?

(I am going somewhere with this, don't worry.)
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6053 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:38 am

Post by Dannflor »

I don't think that's dumb no

I think that's generally correct that scum wouldn't do that... unless they felt like it was their only play

Like if GL felt it was impossible to win if MT died there

but given MT was clearly not trying to stay alive that doesn't seem likely
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Post Post #6054 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:39 am

Post by Nero Cain »

I have a hard time believing that town has no scum reads in 6k pages. I get the "scum wouldn't say this" but thats exactly why scum say this.

It could be that I'm just different and want to murder like half the thread in all my games but I think 0 scum reads is dubious
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #6055 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:40 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Look scumhunting is hard ok
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6056 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:41 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 6052, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 6046, Dannflor wrote:I remember S_S making multi-colored reads lists as scum
Is this a justification for your unvote? Can you generalize it into a statement on my town vs scum play?

(I am going somewhere with this, don't worry.)
it's just a thought i had, not really justification

I don't have justification other than I'm not vibing with your wagon as much anymore and I don't want the day to accidently end too early

I *think* generally that you actually try harder to appear town in the traditional sense that everyone expects when you're scum. Maybe not by much, but I think you feel a little more pressure to warp your playstyle to expectations.

As town, I think you generally don't give a fuck as much and are a little more obstinate in how you play the game.

I'm historically terrible at reading you and I don't think that general statement is a very strong indicator, but it's kinda how I'm feeling right now
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Post Post #6057 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:48 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 6056, Dannflor wrote:I *think* generally that you actually try harder to appear town in the traditional sense that everyone expects when you're scum. Maybe not by much, but I think you feel a little more pressure to warp your playstyle to expectations.
Yes. In particular there is a lot more promising of content to come. I'm finding things like "I can get a good read on Mala if you give me a chance", "I just need some space in the hood with Galron in order to get a read" etc. I'm close to the halfway mark.
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Terry: ...Thanks.
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Post Post #6058 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:51 am

Post by Datisi »

zzz

i don't *love* guiltylion's interactions with the gamma slot in like, total, but

maybe i'm not smart

but i feel like scum!guilty would be positioning himself better? and like, i know his usual scum m.o. is like, push bullshit distance with buddies and like, i don't get the vibe that he's done some Very Heavy Lifting to vote townies out, i don't feel like he's done well enough to protect his partners, i don't feel like he's positioned himself well

like, this kinda stuff traditionally feels "scummy" but i'm not sure i can read guiltylion "traditionally" in good faith
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #6059 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:53 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 6054, Nero Cain wrote:I have a hard time believing that town has no scum reads in 6k pages. I get the "scum wouldn't say this" but thats exactly why scum say this.

It could be that I'm just different and want to murder like half the thread in all my games but I think 0 scum reads is dubious
I think its pretty easy to have scum reads as scum personally. Harder than as town generally speaking because you dont have to care about being right.
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Post Post #6060 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:53 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 6056, Dannflor wrote:I *think* generally that you actually try harder to appear town in the traditional sense that everyone expects when you're scum. Maybe not by much, but I think you feel a little more pressure to warp your playstyle to expectations.
I think this is true sometimes. HDP was one of those times, so I expect Frogster to find something similar.

There was something very specific I was hoping you would mention. I genuinely don't know the answer to this, so I'm kinda testing your memory here: do you remember if there was ever a point in Baton Pass where I deliberately stated I was going to try to be more decisive that game?
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6061 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:53 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2501, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 2497, Galron wrote:And it also had to do with my thinking that S_S was town, and this would force him to just take it

Why is this a good thing though? I wanted to hear from Mala... it's not like there was any risk of something bad happening if you waited.
Example ^^

Also:
In post 2759, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 2756, Datisi wrote:s_s, do you have any opinions on me or my pair
I have a shit history at reading both you and GL. I...
honestly
can't recall much about what you've done, and most of what GL has done that I can recall is tunnel my slot for dumb and facile reasons, which is probably +town to be
honest.
:eek:

AAAAH

(now the Mala example sounds eerily like the TFN thing)
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Post Post #6062 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:54 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

*harder AS town that should say.

Like I might be in the minority here but I never have trouble having believable scum reads as scum and sometimes when I'm town I'm just like idk everyone feels pretty townie to me.
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Post Post #6063 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:55 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

I say "honestly" as either alignment (and in discord, and in text messages when I'm talking about where I want to go to dinner) pretty much constantly so you're going to have a very hard time convincing me that's a thing that matters.
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Post Post #6064 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:57 am

Post by Something_Smart »

I'm pretty sure I use "honestly" as a signal for "what comes next is going to be embarrassing/unexpected".
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6065 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:57 am

Post by Datisi »

VOTE: fireisredsir

OKAY i have reskimmed d2, did it help me, it probably didn't, but whatever i DID IT

feeling more town on shea than i was before. good interactions with gamma.
feeling more town on guiltylion than i was before. uhhh... unexpected strategies from scum-him?
feeling more town on... s_s... because... posts around ... please don't laugh at me...
also uh frogs is Just Town i think??????

i'm far from townreading mena yet, and the fact gamma was already repped out when the obscure wagon started is not giving me info, but anyway

i kinda wanna vote fire rn because (1) i'm half sheeping ausuka's case from d2

(2) town!fire in lategame friends and enemies gave me fucking nightmares. compared to that, fire doesn't really seem like... much present or anything? and the interactions with gamma are like, lackluster and idk

i'm stopping here, my head hurts, i'll maybe be around for a q or 2, but don't expect much from me tonight anymore
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Post Post #6066 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:57 am

Post by Datisi »

VOTE: fireisredsir

OKAY i have reskimmed d2, did it help me, it probably didn't, but whatever i DID IT

feeling more town on shea than i was before. good interactions with gamma.
feeling more town on guiltylion than i was before. uhhh... unexpected strategies from scum-him?
feeling more town on... s_s... because... posts around ... please don't laugh at me...
also uh frogs is Just Town i think??????

i'm far from townreading mena yet, and the fact gamma was already repped out when the obscure wagon started is not giving me info, but anyway

i kinda wanna vote fire rn because (1) i'm half sheeping ausuka's case from d2

(2) town!fire in lategame friends and enemies gave me fucking nightmares. compared to that, fire doesn't really seem like... much present or anything? and the interactions with gamma are like, lackluster and idk

i'm stopping here, my head hurts, i'll maybe be around for a q or 2, but don't expect much from me tonight anymore
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
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Post Post #6067 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:58 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

There is no single type of scum hunting in my entire 15+ years on this site that is more ineffective than attempting to psychoanalyze peoples specific word choices.

It just literally does not work. Ever.
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Post Post #6068 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:59 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

looking for "guilty subconscious word choices" is the bite mark analysis of mafia games.
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Post Post #6069 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:00 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

*except when Ellibereth may or may not have used machine learning to do it.........
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Post Post #6070 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:03 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 6067, Thestatusquo wrote:There is no single type of scum hunting in my entire 15+ years on this site that is more ineffective than attempting to psychoanalyze peoples specific word choices.

It just literally does not work. Ever.
You say this, but I think "definitely" was a scumtell for me for a while.

But, you have to be extremely in tune with someone's meta to have any shot at doing it right. One game that you weren't even in is not going to prove much.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6071 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:04 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 6060, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 6056, Dannflor wrote:I *think* generally that you actually try harder to appear town in the traditional sense that everyone expects when you're scum. Maybe not by much, but I think you feel a little more pressure to warp your playstyle to expectations.
I think this is true sometimes. HDP was one of those times, so I expect Frogster to find something similar.

There was something very specific I was hoping you would mention. I genuinely don't know the answer to this, so I'm kinda testing your memory here: do you remember if there was ever a point in Baton Pass where I deliberately stated I was going to try to be more decisive that game?
I think there may have been. I don't remember exactly and I don't really care to look. Why?

I feel like maybe you're hinting at being more susceptible to playing like the thread wants you to play as mafia?

If you're so self-aware of this idk how much it helps really though
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Post Post #6072 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:04 am

Post by Datisi »

gypyx and ico once analyzed my games and figured out that a lack of "hot take" is scum!indicative for me, that was fun
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
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Post Post #6073 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 am

Post by Dannflor »

VOTE: fireisredsir
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Post Post #6074 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:06 am

Post by fireisredsir »

we're talking about word tells?

time to go check how many times skitter said ping...

jk i actually did that early lmao

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