NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

I just found DGB's UT vote to be pretty bad which is why I questioned that read in particular.

So clearly, you haven't bothered iso'ing UT.

[DrippingGoofball]

More Untrod Tripod votes please.

Glad you are posting effectively.

Why, is my style opaque? Am I hard to understand? Do I look like I have a hidden agenda? Are my reads equivocal?

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm going to add Sotty7 to my scumlist as well.

I agree with this. I would be willing to lynch Sotty7.

[DrippingGoofball]

More Untrod Tripod votes please.

Glad you are posting effectively.

You forgot to vote UT.

[Save The Dragons]

Actually, contrary to my previous post its now LML 6 Bookitty 8. I'm sure she was closer not so long ago. If Bookitty ever turns up scum at some point, the people who unvoted and made a no lynch incredibly likely deserve to die.

Seriously? I'm voting LML because I think we can lynch him. I jumped off Bookitty because way too many people are saying "BOOKITTY'S TOWN I'LL NEVER VOTE HER!" I'm not convinced that enough people will jump onto it in time, so I decided to try another of my top suspects.

You're going to blame people who are trying to get a lynch on someone over people like MBL and DGB who are hopelessly clutching at targets that don't have time to be lynched, or like ABR/Glork who are trying to start a brand new wagon in the 11th hour, or people like Kubla Khan who have promised content but have yet to park a vote? If we get a no lynch, that's where the hell I'm looking, people who are pussyfooting around instead of jumping onto the wagon of the person they find the most scummy.

I'm starting to think that DGB is scum but I don't dare vote her yet, because that would be ridiculous. I'm not going to bother posting a case on her yet nor voting her.

If the Bookitty wagon picks up some steam, I'll happily place my vote there. If PJ's wagon picks up steam, yeah, I'll deposit my vote there. I'm perfectly happy getting one of these three lynched.

[Save The Dragons]

More Untrod Tripod votes please.

Glad you are posting effectively.

You forgot to vote UT.

You make a compelling argument.

[Save The Dragons]

I just found DGB's UT vote to be pretty bad which is why I questioned that read in particular.

So clearly, you haven't bothered iso'ing UT.

And I actually did this and was not convinced. I'd be willing to double check, but not today since nothing jumped out at me.

[Untrod Tripod]

DGB this is really sad

come on

[Porochaz]

More Untrod Tripod votes please.

Glad you are posting effectively.

Why, is my style opaque? Am I hard to understand? Do I look like I have a hidden agenda? Are my reads equivocal?

Am I asking all the right questions?...

Your reads mean nothing. Actually. You haven't given me enough to go on to determine your alignment therefore you post "lynch ut" or "DGB is town" mean absolutely nothing to me, why would I have any reason to follow you?

[Kublai Khan]

@Kublai:

But I've read the first four pages and lately I've had the belief that first impressions are far moar important then we generally give them credit.

<snip>

Scum

sotty7
LML
VitaminR
porochaz
Seol

I know you're still in your read through phase. But at some point, because you put a lot of emphasis on the first impressions, I would like to see you point out the first-impression posts of the players you find scummy, and then explain why your first impressions are of scum rather than town.

Sorry for the big delay. School is finally done and I've posted all the grades. Summer has officially started and I'm free from any teaching obligations at present. I'm about 9 pages from the top so I should be read up and be a full contributing player by tonight.

sotty7 - Disliked Post 58. Don't really understand the need to actively diffuse the MafiaSSK wagon at that point in time.
LoudmouthLee - Dice rolling to RVS is scummy because the intent may be to hide accidentally giving away any information. Also, Post 62. The claim that Tigris is attempting to garner trust with the town is farfetched.
VitaminR - Also shaming the MafiaSSK wagon for little reason. (Post 65)
porochaz - I don't recall why I put porochaz here. Nothing looks amiss.
Seol - Post 54 - The MafiaSSK push is trumped up and bad.

[DrippingGoofball]

why would I have any reason to follow you?

Because you have read Iso's meager and scummy iso and you've reached the same conclusion I have?

[MrBuddyLee]

You're going to blame people who are trying to get a lynch on someone over people like MBL and DGB who are hopelessly clutching at targets that don't have time to be lynched

protip: voting all four of the biggest wagons of the day doesn't make you protown in and of itself, it makes you a good Left4Dead player.

In the last Oldy game, D1, all ten votes on Mert arrived in the 24 hours prior to deadline. Your hyperbole rings somewhat hollow. That being said, it may be time to shit or get off the pot.

Also, STD, your declaration that it's too late to get a wagon going has brought KublaiKhan scurrying out:

sotty7 - Disliked Post 58. Don't really understand the need to actively diffuse the MafiaSSK wagon at that point in time.
VitaminR - Also shaming the MafiaSSK wagon for little reason. (Post 65)
Seol - Post 54 - The MafiaSSK push is trumped up and bad.

Seol scummy for a bad push on mafiaSSK, VitR and sotty scummy for trying to defuse the "bad" mafiaSSK wagon. Looking forward to more quality scumhunting tonight.

[Porochaz]

I can do LML, but why are we not doing Bookitty, STD?

This is the only post that gives me bad vibes from a quick skim of his iso. That and his posting style, which he did in a recent game I played with him where he was town.

There are a number of wagons that are better and let's face it, your iso wouldn't feed a starving camel either.

[Green Crayons]

Also, STD, your declaration that it's too late to get a wagon going has brought KublaiKhan scurrying out:

sotty7 - Disliked Post 58. Don't really understand the need to actively diffuse the MafiaSSK wagon at that point in time.
VitaminR - Also shaming the MafiaSSK wagon for little reason. (Post 65)
Seol - Post 54 - The MafiaSSK push is trumped up and bad.

Seol scummy for a bad push on mafiaSSK, VitR and sotty scummy for trying to defuse the "bad" mafiaSSK wagon. Looking forward to more quality scumhunting tonight.

Your characterization of Kublai is waaaay off. Reread my post to which she was responding, and then consider the context of her post that you're criticizing, to see why.

[Yosarian2]

Well, as for which parts I disagree with, uh, I kinda wrote that in my post, so yeah.

...

In your post, you tried to claim that the reason LML wasn't being lynched was because not enough people suspect him (the way you put it was to claim that the LML wagon "wasn't convincing the townies".) I think I clearly demonstrated that that clearly is not the case, since 11 our of the 22 people in this game have expressed suspicion on LML, more then on any other person in the game I believe.

Are you just standing by your original statement, even after I proved it factually incorrect? Or do you want to explain what you mean a little more here?

And as for the latter, stats? Or is that just a random assertion?

Yeah, there were a bunch of people who gathered stats on large numbers of games, and all of them showed that towns lynched right less often then random on day 1, almost certanly because of scum votes throwing things off. The posts on that were in the MD forum...somewhere. At some point. Of course, I haven't played mafia in more then a year, so maybe that's not true anymore, but it was last time I knew.

(My own rather cynical viewpoint and part of the reason I stopped actively playing is actually that scumhunting in forum games is largely random anyway).

No; in the long run, townies tend to vote correctly more often then random. Of course day 1 is usually a bit random.

[CrashTextDummie]

So UT didn't provide an explanation as much as LML did and that's the difference?

More or less. LML put his actions in a context that I can see as plausible coming from town whereas MafiaSSK kept trying to sell his Tigris suspicion as more legitimate than it was.

I've been saying that Bookitty was a bad lynch since even before the whole VT claim thing that other people are talking about. It just feels like if we lynch her, she'll probably flip town.

Yeah, you've called the wagon "kind of weak" and called here recent "last words" type posts town. Frankly, I don't see how that translates into you resisting a deadline VT lynch.

It feels like at every point of the day today, ABR has avoided taking the "easy road" on basically every wagon[...]

Agreed. It feels like a strategy to me. It's not like he's over-exerting himself by being a contrarian given his playstyle. The timing of his LML 180 is particularly suspect to me.

[...]has been passionate at the right moments[...]

Passionate about what? If he was actually passionate about avoiding a BooKitty lynch, he'd give reasons for why he's town reading the slot. It's not like he's incapable of doing it. And if he was actually passionate about lynching PJ, he wouldn't have jumped on CES the moment Glork started giving him the stink eye.

Interesting that CTD lists five players and claims that 2/5 of them are scum regardless of Bookitty's alignment, yet doesn't seek to puruse this 40% chance.

I like the chance of BooKitty flipping scum just as much. You seem to have misplaced a FoS there.

@CTD: Is your second-strongest scum suspect currently mathcam/mafiassk? How have cam's fifteen posts struck you thus far, and why haven't you commented on them or asked him any questions? Are you pushing for an ABR vig because you believe mathcam is more lynchable tomorrow, or because you find ABR more suspicious, or... ?

I haven't put much thought into the relative strengths of my reads, that's for tomorrow. Mathcam's posts so far haven't particularly struck me. Is there anything specific you think I should have noted? I'm pushing for an ABR vig because he clearly has no intention of answering pertinent, direct questions or to participate in the discussion in any meaningful way. That's an ideal vig shot in my book.

Out of commission for the next ~8 hours. I will not vote Bookitty, but I will broaden my vote bubble as deadline approaches.

Why do you consider no lynch to be preferable to a BooKitty lynch?

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, deadline is tommorow. Not sure exactally what time; did Patrick say? In any case, everyone needs to put their vote on someone who might actually get lynched today, and they have to do it right now.

Kublai Kahn, vote for someone. And everyone who's got their vote on some random person no one else is backing (I'm looking at you, MBL and Dripping Goofball) get to lynching someone. You can try to make your case again tomorrow.

If we no-lynch on day 1 due to sheer lack of ability to get a wagon together, we're probably going to lose.

[Yosarian2]

I've been saying that Bookitty was a bad lynch since even before the whole VT claim thing that other people are talking about. It just feels like if we lynch her, she'll probably flip town.

Yeah, you've called the wagon "kind of weak" and called here recent "last words" type posts town. Frankly, I don't see how that translates into you resisting a deadline VT lynch.

I didn't say that; the BooKitty lynch is clearly a pretty bad lynch, but if it's 5 minutes to deadline and she's at lynch -1, I'd hammer rather then see a no-lynch, especially with the VT claim.

Considering how many people have said they're totally opposed to it, though, it's looking pretty unlikely to happen today. LML wagon looks much more likely to go all the way to a majority.

Agreed. It feels like a strategy to me. It's not like he's over-exerting himself by being a contrarian given his playstyle.

Eh. There's no reason he couldn't use that exact same playstyle to aggressively go after someone who's an easy lynch, to score an easy mislynch, if he were scum. I've seen him do it.

[Yosarian2]

Ah, found it, here it is.

Current status: Day 1, deadline: Wednesday 11th June, 10pm GMT.

So, we have until I think that's 5 PM Eastern Standard Time, tommorow. That's only about 22 hours.

Everyone wagon up, now.

[Save The Dragons]

You're going to blame people who are trying to get a lynch on someone over people like MBL and DGB who are hopelessly clutching at targets that don't have time to be lynched

protip: voting all four of the biggest wagons of the day doesn't make you protown in and of itself, it makes you a good Left4Dead player.

Just want to make sure you're aware that all three players that I'm willing to lynch have been people I've made cases against.

In my passion/rage I may have exaggerated the point, it's not necessarily scummy to have a target that no one agrees with. I was merely upset at the notion that what I did was furthering a no lynch when I believed my actions were trying to prevent it.

But...at the same time DGB's case on UT for example "look at his ISO! Then you'll see! You'll all see!" isn't doing much for me. Anyone who's commented on it (which I think is just me, Porochaz, and UT) haven't suggested they are impressed, and anyone who hasn't (which I think is 18 other people) haven't jumped in line. Tigris wasn't a scumread for me. Since I find several other people scummy, Khan's absence hasn't convinced me one way or the other, either.

In the last Oldy game, D1, all ten votes on Mert arrived in the 24 hours prior to deadline. Your hyperbole rings somewhat hollow.

Do you think this is a common occurrence and that with this town we can be expected to come up with a viable lynch with less than a day to go from nothing?

That being said, it may be time to shit or get off the pot.

...so you agree with me anyway?

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE UNTROD TRIPOD

OLDY MAFIA'S ROB FORD

[Yosarian2]

VOTE UNTROD TRIPOD

OLDY MAFIA'S ROB FORD

DGB, you're the only one who wants to lynch UT, and the deadline is in 20 hours. It's not going to happen today. Vote for someone else.

[Sotty7]

Yes, I'm reading your posts, including the ones you embed as links rather than quoting. Why did you do that, by the way? It's certainly not to put your case out front and center. It looks like you're trying to hide it, since you're quoting everything else.

Come on really? I did that as not to bog the thread down in text and make it easier for people to navigate the page. I'll do that sometimes instead of quoting whole posts. The fact you're making this a scum tell is making me not want to take you seriously.

You were voting my slot before I came into the game, so I never really considered that you might have been doing that for scummy reasons. But you've flatly said that you just skimmed my PBPA. You're missing points about your PRIMARY suspect. It's a little different than missing something from someone else.

I skimmed it at the time you posted. I have read your posts, like I have read all the posts in the game. I resent being told I am not reading because my mind isn't a sponge and I didn't absorb every single detail. I didn't find your posting very compelling and until your attack on me you haven't really voiced an original opinion based on scum reads. You were trying to blend in it felt like to me. Like you were trying to cut me some slack but now it's time to crack down. It's just off.

Why wouldn't you think I would be voting you for "scummy reasons" when you replaced in? You are town aren't you? I would have thought anyone voting you would have raised a red flag until you reviewed their reasoning. This doesn't sound too natural to me.

The point of my UT question was to engage you in dialog as you are my number one suspect. I figured if you could detail more on that read I could see how natural you sounded rather than once again differing to another players opinion, like you did with Glork earlier in the game.

[MrBuddyLee]

Your characterization of Kublai is waaaay off. Reread my post to which she was responding, and then consider the context of her post that you're criticizing, to see why.

Whether KK is scum or town, I feel she's been holding off on posting the past week to avoid making waves that might earn her votes. Busy schedule aside--she admitted to reading at least through page 15 by last Monday but declined to post updated suspicions or clarifying reasons. Her post addressing your questions seems internally inconsistent. Sure, it's possible that both some on the wagon and some of the people attacking the wagon are scummy, but that would require clarification.

As a specific example, KK finds Seol scummy for post 54, reason: "The MafiaSSK push is trumped up and bad."

Compare PJ's 52 to Seol's 54:

2.)

Vote: MafiaSSK

for this:
"Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information..."

I'm feeling it.

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts.

Firstly, what sort of information do you expect an arbitrary bandwagon to guarantee at high vote counts?

Everybody knows it's a standard opening, and so the only way it's going to provoke a reaction is if it actually threatens a lynch. Is that what you meant?

Or do you mean the sort of information where people start giving opinions on the wagon, and expressing suspicions arising from it? Because

that's what Tigris did

.

You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information.

"Violating groupthink is scummy"

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Seol and PJ found MafiaSSK scummy for the same exact phrase. KK finds Seol scummy for that post, but not PJ. Curious, and doesn't seem particularly thought out.

I stand on my opinion that KK's posting now not because you asked her questions weeks ago, but because it's too late for her to earn votes. And that her scumhunting is dreadfully thin and internally inconsistent.

@UT

, why do you find Bookitty scummy?

[Kublai Khan]

Why are people calling me a "she"? I'm a dude...