Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Not_Mafia]

acryon is town, don't ask me why, everyone has what they need to figure it out

PEdit: omg everyone staph

[the worst]

That question goes nowhere, the worst. The option to no lynch while gladiate is in effect makes equal amounts of sense if it's town or scum alligned.

fp'd a milion times

It's on my mind
It helps me think through things

Therefore it goes somewhere.

[Mathdino]

mastina please stop butting into 1 on 1 conversations just to tell one person the other is scum

I only do so when they raise a good point and yet they fail to realize it was a good point. It is a reminder that they raised the good point and that there is an obvious answer to their point.

okay screw you on this tbh

i don't need you doing this

i'm capable of coming to my own conclusions from my own conversations, quietly, without the peanut gallery cheering me onto sucker punching the guy

i am aware of when i am making good points, but i don't play all my cards upfront

when you try to predict my cards for me it's just patronising

[Not_Mafia]

Can we please cancel the Mathdino and Mastina Show before it gets a second season?

[the worst]

Dude this is still the pilot

[Iconeum]

Second season? Pilot? I feel like I'm watching it rerun for the 10th time

[the worst]

Math can you gimme your read on mastina in like 20 words or less?

[Iconeum]

Look, if anyone is actually seriously considering lynching me, make a case on me. Let's at least discuss it while there is time.
Otherwise, I will be in favor of a

No lynch. <--- This is not my standard play, but this is not a standard situation either. It's between myself (and I don't wanna be lynched), or my town read.

Easy choice.

[Iconeum]

I'm also gonna say that I am beginning to see Carrot as town. It would make more sense for that slot to keep pushing MD after that 1v1, if it's scum.
Why would a scumastina go after no lynch, if it's TOP scumread for the majority of D1 is now being gladiated?

I mean, that's a bloody strong town tell imo.

[the worst]

+1. Cursory glance says I am probably the main compulsive sheep of this playerlist and I haven't seen a single reason to do anything but no lynch

[Mathdino]

Math can you gimme your read on mastina in like 20 words or less?

extremely lynchable, especially if 100% wrong
self-meta ironically indicates scum
shouldn't live to 3p or 5p lylo

i like policy lynches

[Iconeum]

Like literally the only other way for that backpedal by Carrot on MD to make sense, if it was a SvS fight.
That's unlikely because both have claimed protective roles, which is too vulnerable to being CC'd.

[Mathdino]

I'm also gonna say that I am beginning to see Carrot as town. It would make more sense for that slot to keep pushing MD after that 1v1, if it's scum.
Why would a scumastina go after no lynch, if it's TOP scumread for the majority of D1 is now being gladiated?

I mean, that's a bloody strong town tell imo.

ughhhhhh

mastina is gonna write so many more words than i am on this and it's a total waste of time
basically mastina purposefully makes herself unaware of future events in the thread while catching up (a measure i consider actively anti-town, and i personally hate reading chronologically)

point is, she stopped pushing me after i started pushing acryon, not as a result of the gladiation

[Carrot and Stick]

i'm at this point convinced that she started doing it as town to benefit her scumgames

Not quite.
My scumgame is good enough that I deliberately nerfed it for fear of being reverse-BoPed in that my scumgame was so good that it was a scumtell for me to be even remotely logical. In order to remain effective with said scumgame, I needed to tone it down such that it wasn't obvious to anyone familiar with my meta that I was playing to my scum meta. This was not done to sabotage my scumgame, but rather, to preserve the integrity of it.

Simultaneously, my towngame is shit enough that I've always strove to replicate the success of my scumgame by duplicating the successful elements of my scumgame in my towngame. This is not done as a NERF to the towngame--quite the opposite, it is intended as a BUFF to the towngame. Because me playing to my scum meta as town actually increases my competency and threat level as town, thanks to my town self comparatively sucking.

So yes I did make deliberate changes to my game, but for the

opposite

of the reasons you suggest. Done to save my scumgame; done to improve my towngame, rather than done to destroy my scum/towngame. (The latter is trust telling and explicitly against site rules. I would never sabotage my play as one alignment to increase my odds as the other. I do however 'sabotage' my play as an alignment in order to attempt an increase my odds as

that same alignment

. You can think of this as a metagambit of sorts, in that it is a gambit extending across my very gamestyle.)

i've seen mastina scum pass over half of those checks in that flowchart in one game

Yes and that was one of the best scumgames I've ever played as a result.

mastina has unconscious tells. i don't know them but i 100% know they exist.

Never said I don't. I'm sure I do! Quite positive in fact. I just don't believe the notion that anyone has genuinely picked up on any of them that I am not already aware of. (In other words, nobody is aware of a tell I am not aware of which is actually a tell.) It's one of those things which I firmly believe is possible "in theory" but in reality is literally impossible.

mastina's was just well written and enjoyable to read.

Hey I am a writer. My job is to string people along with narratives. (This is incidentally the reason WHY my scumgame is stronger than my towngame because the skill of narrative weaving has far more benefit to scum than to town. It has uses for town, but it's much, much, MUCH harder to harvest.)

[the worst]

@mastina

sorry if this is rude but would you mind focusing a little less on Math's posts while you catch up?

you guys gotta stop engaging with each other for a bit

[Carrot and Stick]

2. we protect each other, which almost certainly guarantees our survival into lategame (but likely results in one of us getting lynched)

I am never protecting you for exactly this reason: it is your fucking job as a bodyguard to DIE.

My plan will never change.

If you explicitly say you are protecting Iconeum, I will protect some other player not named Iconeum or Mathdino.
If you do not explicitly say you are protecting Iconeum, I will explicitly protect Iconeum.

I will not budge on this for any reason. Don't even try.

If the scum see it fit to nightkill you or me, so be it. Killing you removes you from the lynchpool; killing me proves my statement of me never being the lynch correct. Win either way.

If the scum elect to night kill me or you, then best we try to stop it, obv. And one of us should be on Iconeum since that was both of our plans originally. One, but not both. One to guard Iconeum, the other to guard a player who scum might nightkill outside of us three. (Iconeum/Mathdino/me.)

Do you disagree? (Well aside from the thought of Iconeum or you as the lynch. I'm obviously talking about no-lynching here and assuming a no-lynch do you disagree.)

[Carrot and Stick]

He also expressed a Math TR, Ico SR then voted No Lynch instantly

Indeed that is part of it.

Another is the Iconeum scumread in the first place.

Mastiiiina
Do you think a scum gladiatoriser makes sense with the notion that town can Opt to no lynch?

That's exactly one of the reasons it DOES make sense! Allowing the town the possibility to not lynch town is one of the reasons the role can be placed in scum's hands in the first place.

[Mathdino]

mastina you directed town protectives to be on me

while being a town protective who doesn't want to be on me

stop wasting posts thanks

[Iconeum]

yo MD, now that the possibilty of No Lynch is in play, you still consider lynching me?

[Carrot and Stick]

you claimed a gunsmith guilty on me before i ever claimed my role

To the contrary! I did not

claim

a 'gunsmith guilty' on you before you claimed your role.

I claimed it after.

I

stated

the gunsmith thing a grand total of once before then, which was indeed before your claim. It served a particular purpose which was loosely but only indirectly related. I had good reason for that but given I've no interest in fullclaiming I shouldn't go into detail. My softing for my role is such that you'll probably understand exactly what I was doing/going for when I flip/fullclaim but before then will remain confused as to what the fuck I actually am. Given that I am firmly of the opinion that the ambiguity doesn't hurt the town and yet helps the town by not helping the scum, I'd prefer to keep it that way.

[Mathdino]

yo MD, now that the possibilty of No Lynch is in play, you still consider lynching me?

can't say i particularly care that much either way

it's hard to undo several games' worth of mafia theory

"don't no lynch when you're in odds"

at this point i have to just hope we have a vig, which, given that there's a gladiator, seems unlikely

there'll be enough votes to no lynch without me, town can decide this one

it's getting so hard to care about this game tbh

[Carrot and Stick]

Why would a scumastina go after no lynch, if it's TOP scumread for the majority of D1 is now being gladiated?

Because scumastina knows that a lynch is inevitable in spite of her advocating for a no-lynch and if at all possible prefers to be off of a mislynch. (In other words, while I am adamant we go for the no-lynch I am not expecting we'll actually achieve one. I happen to be town lamenting the loss of a town player as a result, but were I scum it'd just be smart play.)

i don't play all my cards upfront

I do.
Well, no, I don't, but when I don't play them I make it 100% unambiguous I'm not playing them and let you know that I have them.

Subtlety rarely has a place in scumhunting. (I mean in roles sure, subtlety is your friend but not in scumhunting.) Holding back is a good way to ensure that people misinterpret (be it accidentally or deliberately) what it was you were going for, which is especially problematic if you cannot correct them for whatever reason.

[Carrot and Stick]

@mastina

sorry if this is rude but would you mind focusing a little less on Math's posts while you catch up?

Sorry, but I'm obligated to talk to townreads and engage them on anything I deem pertinent.

I do skip a fair amount which I could choose to respond to, but there is a necessary level of communication to maintain dialogs.

2. we protect each other, which almost certainly guarantees our survival into lategame (but likely results in one of us getting lynched)

I am never protecting you for exactly this reason: it is your fucking job as a bodyguard to DIE.

(For the record, I also consider it my job to die. Preferably not immediately, which is one reason why openly claiming protective is sub-par, but I consider it an obligation for me to die prior to lylo via the nightkill. I'd expect the same of anyone with my role or Mathdino's role.)

Also, was pretty obvious but in case there is confusion:

If the scum elect to night kill me or you, then best we try to stop it, obv.

^Was obviously a typo there in that I meant "If the scum DON'T elect to nightkill me or you", or "If the scum elect to nightkill someone other than me or you". I crossed the mental streams combining the first half of the second with the second half of the first, ending up delivering the opposite of the intended message there.

[Carrot and Stick]

mastina you directed town protectives to be on me

No, I breadcrumbed I was planning on protecting Iconeum by stating Iconeum was who protectives should be on.

No protective should protect you.
No protective should protect me for that matter.

Protectives should be divided between Iconeum (one protective exactly, no more yet also no less) and other players.
It doesn't matter which is on Iconeum, so long as it is done.

[BuJaber]

Okay

@Carrot - I want to agree with you when it comes to acryon, MD, and Icon. Because then we just no lynch and move on to D2 and kill acryon or he gets vigshot. But the problem is specifically that Icon was so widely townread. If acryon is indeed scum, and both MD and Icon are town, then why would scum choose to gladiate these 2? It is insanely difficult to lynch icon, and if they wanted to make it easier scum would have slung a little mud. There was no mud slung on icon. Icon has such a clean image this game that scum would have to NK him. By your own admission acryon has scumclaimed by doing this, so realistically they did all that just to lynch Dino at the cost of losing acryon? No. If acryon was doing this just for survival he could have chosen better options to gladiate. Ones that wouldn't be scrutinized as much. Ones that people could quickly lynch without hesitation. If gladiating at that point was a scumclaim either way he would have done it in a way that ensures it actually works.

@Icon - I was hoping you would argue or scumread mastina. That would make it obvious to me you were town because there is no benefit to scum!icon to townread her.

My case on icon is wifomy but I cannot shake it. He is scum this game.

Summary of it:
- Doesn't make sense imo for acryon to gladiate these 2 players if both are indeed town.
- Icon was too widely townread. Such a strong town player would make scum nervous and they would want to reduce his influence over town. There is no evidence of this happening. As such they probably decided only way to get rid of him is through NK. Another reason why point 1 doesn't make much sense.
- Mastina and MD agree that acryon is not compulsive. If scum I think he'd ask the mod if no lynch was possible. If he did know that no lynch is possible why waste his gladiate on 2 people unlikely to get lynched who he in fact did not strongly scumread? (which is what raised questions in the first place). Just seems too haphazardly of scum!acryon to me. I get there was insane pressure on him but a) he would not be heavily bussed by his buddies if they know he has gladiator (as they know his lynch will stop at any time) b) this is a colossal fuckup for scum!acryon and arguably worse than if he just fell over on his sword. Sure they couldn't have predicted what would happen but it has resulted in all 3 of MD, mastina, and Icon to be TR'd. If all 3 are town game over scum just quit.
- Why were a lot of icon's posts comprised of just asking good questions? Because town was doing his job for him. He just needs to encourage more of these TvTs. And when your scumbuddies are lurking you can act 100% town because it doesn't hurt. Scumhunt the fuck out of town. Don't do anything scummy because you don't need to. (This point ties to my earlier point that I wholeheartedly believe that at least one scum has lurked the entire game)

Anyway I'm voting Icon. I hope I'm wrong. It's better for town if I'm wrong. But I think I'm right.

VOTE: icon


As for reading mastina:
-Leaning town, BUT
-If I'm right about icon and acryon she is more likely to be scum (though not definitely, she could just be wrong )

And if Icon flips town then I will townread mastina and MD for the remainder of this game.