Mini 1942 - Switchboard 2 [Game Over]

[Nosferatu]

I would qualify this as doubtcasting because you are ignoring the fact that he hasn't been CCed, as if it's irrelevant. All of your synonyms indicate that you are leaving the option open (ie. considering it), thus inducing uncertainty in the rest of the town. This is casting doubt.

like AHHH

Like I still don't think this COUNTS... I need hand movements to articulate my uhh thoughts...aaaaa

hmmm

I was trying to express MY doubt on my READ of him. Yeah they weren't really counting his claim, and I was considering it, but I wasn't like uhh

AHH

I wasn't trying to say HEY THIS COULD STILL BE SCUM GUYS

I was trying to go HEY AT FIRST ID THINK THIS WAS SCUM BUT MAYBE NOT

and TO ME that's not trying to like sully his conf town status. What I said like immediately after that maybe was I'll admit, WHICH I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IF I TRIED TO SAY THIS LIKE 3 DAYS AGO OR WHENEVER. I don't have a strong grasp of time so whenever this post I'm responding to is the interval I'm referring to

sidetracked

I guess what I'm trying to say was that the INTENTION was for me to express doubt about my shit not sew doubt about allo's stuff. Maybe idk what I'm even going for at this point.

[Keychain]

I didn't expect that. I really

really

didn't expect that.

Give me a bit and I'll respond to what you said, okay?

[Realeo]

Maybe I need to start posting like Nosferatu, just type what is inside her brain instead of taking minutes to make sure I get the perfect word choice so I would seem genuine

*Cough at mjoll*

[Nosferatu]

Maybe I need to start posting like Nosferatu, just type what is inside her brain instead of taking minutes to make sure I get the perfect word choice so I would seem genuine

idk I just forget the word I had when I started typing

it happens irl and it seems to be getting worse so I should probably get that checked out.

[Keychain]

Realeo don't cough at people, that's how sickness spreads.

@Nos: Okay.

First off
<3 you're not a horrible person, let's not go blaming your mum for anything. You're allowed to have bad moments.

Secondly
UNVOTE:
I think I'm on the wrong track here...

I saw it like you were deliberately ignoring the claim but doing it subtly by being like "oh yeah maybe he's not scum because of [other reason]." Because as scum if you just went "yeah fuk that claim lol" and tried to get him lynched we'd be like "um, no, die scum".

Like you were trying to set him up as a possible future lynch by drawing attention away from the fact that he's pretty much confirmed town?

LIKE just hesitant didnt mean im hesitant to say he's bp so saying that ive like uhh shaded his claim or something just sound like a reach to me cause it wasnt even IN my mind when I wanted to talk about things.

I just dont think its doubtcasting. I really don't... maybe you could explain to me how my use of the word hesitant made allo's claim like less uhh... what's a word for worthy that is actually fitting in context...AUTHENTIC yes. so yeah if you could answer that maybe this would be worth talking about cause i dont really see a proper resolution happening cause those are good

Yeah no I don't see doubtcasting as being a big push to make people disbelieve the claim, I saw it more as an insidious "let's keep him as a prospect" kind of thing, and then you were like "but I'm not making a big push I'm HESITANT here this is what it means" which didn't really ease my concerns at all on that because I wouldn't expect scum to be that obvious, ever.

Ignoring the claim and making evaluations of Allo being scum based on

something else

is what bothered me, and I saw your hesitation as more of an attempt to translate that hesitation to the rest of the game by saying it which you very clearly don't think. Currently the town is in "Allo is town" mode, it felt like you were trying to change it to "Allo is maybe town" mode.

Like does that make sense?

[Nosferatu]

Ignoring the claim and making evaluations of Allo being scum based on something else is what bothered me, and I saw your hesitation as more of an attempt to translate that hesitation to the rest of the game by saying it which you very clearly don't think. Currently the town is in "Allo is town" mode, it felt like you were trying to change it to "Allo is maybe town" mode.

Yeah I kinda get what you were going for with the whole uhh subtlety thing
makes sense retrospectively

[havingfitz]

Checking in. Sorry for the activity level. I'm on vacation and reading motivation is low. I'm town though so don't stress it.

I have a pretty busy day ahead of me but will try to get a catchup read through done (minus the annoying catch ups that Uzi hates) at some point today.

I have 0 suspects atm.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, isnt the conclusion of most your "case" is X is being wrong instead of X being scum?

And your point?

This may come across as cold, but; I'd much rather you tell me what you think about the matter, and the debate, rather than just asking me a question with an obvious answer.

[Realeo]

Aubrey, isnt the conclusion of most your "case" is X is being wrong instead of X being scum?

And your point?

There is a different of scum being manipulative and a player making wrong analysis.

[Realeo]

Like, the only conclusion that I get from you is Luv is a stupid player, not a liar.

[Aubrey]

I'm not pushing him to be a liar...I'm defending myself against his claims.

[Realeo]

but you don't see his attack towny?

[Realeo]

The thing is that RadicalRat jump to vote uzi was to sheep you--so I take that as a social cue that you are scumreading him, but if you're not actually scumreading him, then I have to question RR's motive to vote uzi.

[Realeo]

Did I just screw up my reading??

[Aubrey]

Rat is more interested in his initial "

scum killed my girlfriend so they can frame me

" gig. Least that is what I feel.

--

I don't care for Uzi's push on me because I think attacking me for my sum day chat ignorance is an easy place for scum to strike out against. I feel the same way about him attacking me for my earliest frustrated vote onto Allo, which I basically recanted later on. I did however vote again later due to his overall lackluster play though, but that is never mentioned by him. He's also pushing me for not understanding Rat's reason for saying I'm scum? That is just bull to me. "

Well you shoulda known what wasn't said

" is just kinda frustrating when it wasn't clear at all.

--

In short, his logical push is bad to me, and I don't like that the pushes are all fairly easy things to push someone on in my opinion. I also feel as if I've been fairly townish. At least enough to cause someone to waver if they scum read me, and I don't sense that at all from him. I do however waver because it is easier for me to suspect him for pushing me since I know I'm town. I find it a pain in the arse to read someone who attacks me vs someone who attacks someone else.

--

I also haven't put much thought into his initial thoughts about Chick's death. The whole "

scum might be trying to frame me for being a lover to the deceased

" and then looking back only to see nobody here would know they were lovers, just seems a bit strange to come from scum to me. The only scum motive I can currently imagine is the attempt to stop , or cause fear of, town from pushing that agenda early on. But then why not check the player list before saying it? I almost want to say this would more likely come from a paranoid town than an articulative scum. <--- but I have nothing to back that up with other than a perception I have for scum / gut.

--

In short, he has pros and cons and I don't know which outweigh the other.

[Aubrey]

A better example regarding Uzi's lover's frame comment.

It just seems like a bad plan as scum to say X when there is a chance you might not have had to say X to begin with. Especially when X could potentially place an unnecessary seed of doubt in the minds of the town when X's original indent was to be a defensive ploy against that very seed to begin with. You'd just think as scum he'd be more cautious, and check to see if anybody would have known to begin with. That's the best example I know how to illustrate my feelings toward it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't know if I'm not being clear or just purposefully misrepresented. The main reasons I'm scum reading Aubrey are as follows:

- His reaction to those trying to break the setup and his justification for said reaction.
- His weird initial vote for Allo before Allo became confirmed town.
- His reasons for scum reading Nos.

[Aubrey]

I don't know if i'm not being clear or just purposefully misrepresented either.

[Aubrey]

- explained why your detailed reasoning for it outlandish. Further more I WAS IN SUPPORT OF BREAKING THE SET UP TILL REALEO HAD TO RUIN THE FUN. though I'm somewhat happy he did now knowing scum were more coordinated with day chat.

- explained.

- oh me, oh my, how dare I.

*plays tiniest violin*

[Lil Uzi Vert]

[Radical Rat]

Reasons for voting Moz:
He said his reads felt unnatural and politician like. This was quite early on and his vote never wavered since. Also claimed that he was suspicious of Moz for a while before voting for him. Rat, can you say when you first started suspecting him?. Saying that, he did have some justified points about him that came after the initial vote that did back it up. I will also say that I have seen scum!Rat before, and this doesn't feel like it...

However I did notice something curious about his posts, he claimed intent to hammer Allo without having said anything him beforehand, why did you want to hammer him, and why did you mention nothing about him before? I also did not notice you clarify what exactly about Mozamis' reads you found shifty, can you?

I first started to be suspicious of Moz pretty much right after the "No, we shouldn't claim priorities." "Maybe we should." "Yep, here's mine!" "Radical Rat confirmed Town!" bit that happened within the span of like five minutes if I recall correctly.
It felt to me like an attempt to buddy me early, as I wouldn't expect a turnaround like that so quickly unless he know what he was doing ahead of time, but I didn't want to push it straight away because maybe I was just being paranoid (turns out I was), and if I did determine he was Town later, that mutual townread would have been valuable.
However, as the day went on, and his posts continually felt more manufactured and hollow, I wasn't feeling any better about things. When others started expressing their scumreads, I figured I should probably start listening to my gut if others were seeing it too, so I vocalized my suspicions and joined the wagon.

The Allomancer hammer intent.... I honestly don't have a good answer for. It was a lurking slot, I didn't hate the wagon, and lurker lynches are much better to take care of in the early game than the late game.

[Radical Rat]

The thing is that RadicalRat jump to vote uzi was to sheep you--so I take that as a social cue that you are scumreading him, but if you're not actually scumreading him, then I have to question RR's motive to vote uzi.

I'm not sheeping Aubrey.

I thought "Hey, I never saw LUV's response to my question," went back to check and he hadn't posted at all, so I dropped a motivational vote, and sure enough, he hopped right on.

[Radical Rat]

I feel pretty good about IaI, Nos, and Realeo

IaI? How?

What's suspicious about IaI?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Where'd you run off to?
I still wanna hear about this scum framing you before they knew you were here thing.

Work. Another game I'm in has also been a lot more interesting.

And I already answered that.

Yes, but you also didn't.
You said you joined in the night, so assumed everyone got notified.

However, checking the thread, as you should have done upon replacing in, would show that your replacement had not been announced.

Well I didn't check it upon receiving my role PM.

Speaking of which...
Why not?
Is reading the thread not the first thing you do when you replace into a game?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I feel pretty good about IaI, Nos, and Realeo

IaI? How?

What's suspicious about IaI?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Where'd you run off to?
I still wanna hear about this scum framing you before they knew you were here thing.

Work. Another game I'm in has also been a lot more interesting.

And I already answered that.

Yes, but you also didn't.
You said you joined in the night, so assumed everyone got notified.

However, checking the thread, as you should have done upon replacing in, would show that your replacement had not been announced.

Well I didn't check it upon receiving my role PM.

Speaking of which...
Why not?
Is reading the thread not the first thing you do when you replace into a game?

I normally do but I didn't this time because I was busy.

[Aubrey]

I feel like we are in vote limbo with a lot of talk to show, but no wagons to actually analyze...I'm going to VOTE: Flub. I don't have a strong case against him, but I don't have a case for town him either. If one does have a town point for him, I'd encourage them to step forward and deliver one. Looking through the ISO, I'm seeing little to no pushes to understand players, but rather direct statements that place him where he wants/needs to be which I consider to be closer aligned to scum than town.

--

The few posts I see him questioning or pushing people for understanding is:

Spoiler:

501: which is just asking why Realeo isn't voting for Chick ( Chick, who had a few people already skeptical of her, but was also suspicious of FormerFish/soon to be Flub at the time) after sheeping Realeo's points against Chick.

625: but really he isn't trying to gain understanding here. I frankly don't even get his point here other than he's annoyed Moz was upset with him and suspected him for reasons he considered silly.

626: Which I don't count as an attempt to figure out someone's alignment as much as he just doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about and his name is in the line.

634: Feels more like a reminder stab at Moz. This question is basically dropped all togther after Chick briefly responds in a negative manner.

847 is an attack in the form of a question (which honestly, what is wrong with having a little fun and engaging with the person who suspects me?). swiftly followed by 850 & 851 which again is just attacks in the form of questions.

and lastly 863: which is just him asking for clarification for a small vague negative response I had against him.

so, if you read the spoiler, the few times he does question or push someone for understanding...they really are not much of an attempt to figure out one's alignment at all. Everything else has been direct statements, with little backing, to put him where he needs to be.

--

In short, I feel as if he is just methodically hopping from read to read rather than actively attempting to sort slots. The only time he has wavered so far was with Nos, and that was even a vague change but was still left open to be voted later down the road.