Newbie #779 (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

The mafia has invaded your town, and you will stand for it no longer! To the town square, everybody, we've got a lynching to organise!

The Players:

Alive (4/9)

hungrymelon

Shotty to the Body, Townie - Survived
Locke Lamora, Townie - Survived
sirdanilot*, Townie - Survived
Toxic Buffalo, Townie - Survived

(Names marked with a * are Inexperience Challenged players.)

Dead (5/9)

Shaw

wake4me4life, Townie - Lynched Day One
halflight007, Townie - Killed Night One

Bladewing Vorox

Mastin, Mafia Roleblocker - Lynched Day Two

Vel-Rahn Koon*

Zorblag*, Townie - Killed Night Two

Taellan

FF7Kotrt, Mafia Goon - Gave himself up Day Three

Current Status:

Phase: Game Over!
Deadline: -

[iamausername]

The Rules:

1. Social Contract

*This is a game. I've done my best while setting it up to make it enjoyable for everyone. Fun is our first priority.

*I will do the following:
=treat this game as my MafiaScum priority, as a committment to the players
=post votecounts at least once per page whenever possible
=prod players w/o prompting
=answer questions as soon as possible

*I expect all players to do the following:
=have fun and play to win
=treat the game as a commitment to yourself, to the other players and to me
=not make personal attacks
=stay active per my activity policy
=bring concerns or problems to my attention as soon as possible

2. Activity

*This game will have fixed deadlines (extensible only in extreme circumstances) and I expect players to actively participate.

*Deadlines for days are 3 weeks long. Deadlines for nights will be 72 hours long. All deadlines will expire at 7PM GMT. However, if a player is in need of replacement during a night phase, the night will not end until that replacement is found, regardless of whether or not that player has a night action to perform.

*Players not posting for 72 hours will be prodded and must respond in the game thread within 24 hours, or risk being replaced.

*If you see a player has not posted in thread for 72 hours and I have not announced a prod, please PM me. All prods are stated publicly.

*If you will be away and unable to post over 48 hours, please let me know. You may be replaced if I believe your absence will disrupt the game.

3. Votes and Lynches

*Lynches will only occur with a true majority of voters (Half the number of living players plus one). Once a person has reached a majority, they are dead and unvoting them will not stop the lynch.

*If the deadline hits before anyone has been lynched, then no one will be lynched.

*Votes and unvotes must be bolded in the following format (

vote: iamausername

,

unvote

). It is not necessary to unvote before making a new vote.

*Players may vote for no lynch to occur on any given day (

vote: No Lynch

). A majority of votes for no lynch will end the day and no one will be lynched.

*Until I have counted the votes and posted the death scene and role reveal, all players including the lynchee may continue to post. Once I have posted a vote count indicating a player is lynched, they are dead and are not to post anything else at all, not even a "Bah!" post.

4. Other (but still important!) Stuff
*Do not post or quote directly from any PM or communication outside this thread between me and you or you and another player. Do so and I will modkill you. Don't even fake it. Put whatever you have to say in your own words.

*Modkills end the day.

*Do not post in invisible/small text or otherwise attempt to hide the text of your posts.

*Do not edit your posts or the posts of others.

*Do not discuss this game with other players (whether in this game or not) outside of this thread, unless I have told you otherwise, until this game is completed.

*At my sole discretion I reserve the right to remove any player from the game and replace or modkill their role.

[iamausername]

The Setup:

This game will use the F11 setup, as is standard for all Newbie games at the moment. This is a semi-open setup, where one of the four possibilities listed below is randomly chosen, with equal weight given to each.

- 7 Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon
- 5 Townies, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon
- 6 Townies, 1 Cop, 2 Mafia Goons
- 6 Townies, 1 Doctor, 2 Mafia Goons

*In either of the first two cases, if the mafia goon is killed first, the roleblocker will be able to submit both a kill AND a block each night.

*All roles are assigned totally randomly, with no accounting for IC status, or anything else.

These are the possible Role PMs:

You are a

Townie

. During the night, you have no special abilities to use.

During the day, you must attempt to find the mafia members hidden in the town, and you may vote for which player you wish to see lynched.

You win when all mafia players are dead.

You are a

Cop

. During the night, you may choose one other player to investigate. If your investigation is not blocked, you will receive a response of "Guilty" if they are aligned with the mafia, and "Innocent" if they are aligned with the town.

During the day, you must attempt to find the mafia members hidden in the town, and you may vote for which player you wish to see lynched.

You win when all mafia players are dead.

You are a

Doctor

. During the night, you may choose one other player to protect. If your protection is not blocked, then that player will not die if they are the target of the mafia's kill that night. You will not be informed if you are blocked.

During the day, you must attempt to find the mafia members hidden in the town, and you may vote for which player you wish to see lynched.

You win when all mafia players are dead.

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

. Your partner is

[NAME]

, who is a Mafia Goon. During the night, the two of you may converse in private and decide on one member of the town to target for a kill. In addition, you may target one player to block, and if that player is performing a special action at night, it will fail.

During the day, you must attempt to blend in with the town, and you may vote for which player you wish to see lynched. You may not communicate in private with your partner during the day.

You win when all town players are dead, or when it is inevitable that this will be the case.

You are a

Mafia Goon

. Your partner is

[NAME]

, who is (a Mafia Roleblocker/also a Mafia Goon). During the night, the two of you may converse in private and decide on one member of the town to target for a kill.

During the day, you must attempt to blend in with the town, and you may vote for which player you wish to see lynched. You may not communicate in private with your partner during the day.

You win when all town players are dead, or when it is inevitable that this will be the case.

[iamausername]

-=All Role PMs have gone out. Day One will begin once everyone has confirmed. While we are still waiting for confirmations, mafia members may communicate in private.=-

[iamausername]

All confirms are in, so Day One is a go!

-=Deadline set for Sunday, 17th May. With 9 alive, it will take 5 votes to lynch.=-

[sirdanilot]

Hello all. I'm an IC in this game. I'm a normal player in this game, but I have more experience than most of you so if you have any questions about abbreviations, game theory, rules etc. you can ask one of the ICs or the mod.

There's no information to go off right now. I'm not going to randomly vote someone in this game. I want to try to get some discussion going through other means. What's everyone's opinion about that?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

There's no information to go off right now. I'm not going to randomly vote someone in this game. I want to try to get some discussion going through other means. What's everyone's opinion about that?

I think it sucks But I'm willing to try it to see how it goes.

And I'm the other IC for the game. We don't normally have 2, but we have an overabundance at the moment, so there you go.

As a note, I'll potentially be scarce until Thursday May 7th. I'm preparing to defend my doctoral dissertation and that has priority. Just a head's up - I shouldn't need replacing but I may not be able to do anything for a few days before the defense.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Almost hit the edit button

The random voting stage is usually used to get the discussion started and get people talking. I've got no experience not random voting, and I can see both advantages and disadvantages to skipping it, but I'll have to wait to see how this plays out.

How do you envision this working sir? What's the rationale behind it? How do we get things going? If you'd rather wait until everyone responds that's fine.

[Taellan]

You want to get some discussion going about what, exactly? About who we should lynch? Like you said, there's really nothing to go on...

...Unless that's what you're looking for. Eh? =]

This is a good idea, sirdanilot. I'm really not a fan of random voting.

[halflight007]

Hmm. I think I'm going to

vote: hungrymelon

because he has food in his username and I'm hungry right now.

[Taellan]

...

Psst. Hey. Does it really take 3 weeks to get through a day in these games?

Just wondering, since this site seems pretty active.

[sirdanilot]

VRK - Huh, I thought 2 ICs was the minimum. Anyway, through experienced players replacing into newbie slots in newbie games, there can be a pretty high amount of ICs in newbie games.

(1)I think it sucks But I'm willing to try it to see how it goes.
-------------------------------------------------

(2)The random voting stage is usually used to get the discussion started and get people talking. I've got no experience not random voting, and I can see both advantages and disadvantages to skipping it, but I'll have to wait to see how this plays out.

(3)How do you envision this working sir? What's the rationale behind it? How do we get things going? If you'd rather wait until everyone responds that's fine.

I'm glad my idea is catching up.
1. That's a contradiction. Why would you be willing to agree to a strategy you think is bad?
2. True. I always random vote too, and I have no experience with not random voting. I think this is because the very first person to post has to not random vote, since random voting is usually some kind of bandwagon; if one person random votes, the others will follow. Of course there are people who refuse to vote even when everyone else is doing so, but that doesn't really add anything to the discussion. I wanted to try to see how this plays out. So far I'm not disappointed.
3. I expected that I would get questions like this. The answer is that the exact thing that we are doing now, is the discussion I wanted to get going. I even made a very basic attempt at scumhunting already (see point 1). I don't think that often happens in a random vote game, that you already get serious in a second post. It's things like these I was looking for.

You want to get some discussion going about what, exactly? About who we should lynch? Like you said, there's really nothing to go on...

...Unless that's what you're looking for. Eh? =]

This is a good idea, sirdanilot. I'm really not a fan of random voting.

True. We have nothing to discuss about. That's why we're discussing what we should discuss. Any discussion at this stage will help the town.

As for day length, it varies. I've seen a 7 page day one, which took only like a week and a half or something. I've also seen 30 page day ones, taking about a month. It's up to you, and everyone else, to determine how long it will last. Of course, all days after day one will take a shorter time, since there will be more information to analyze, and there will be less players.

halflight- I am not criticizing you for random voting at this stage. However, I would like you to chime in here; why did you random vote? As in, not your reason for your random vote (since it's, well, random) but as in why you chose to random vote instead of engaging in the discussion I tried to start. Do you think my strategy is bad?

[Bladewing Vorox]

Hmm. I think I'm going to

vote: hungrymelon

because he has food in his username and I'm hungry right now.

That's a wierd reason for voting but, well it seems to be a random vote which is normal during the beginning of Day 1.

By the way, I'm okay with the idea of "trying to get discussion going through other means than random voting" but, as it was said before, we don't have a lot of things to discuss. However, I'm going to try not to random vote yet. So, what should we discuss now ?

[halflight007]

halflight- I am not criticizing you for random voting at this stage. However, I would like you to chime in here; why did you random vote? As in, not your reason for your random vote (since it's, well, random) but as in why you chose to random vote instead of engaging in the discussion I tried to start. Do you think my strategy is bad?

It's not that I think it's bad, it's just that I've been reviewing other games while I've been waiting for my turn, and none of the ones I've read have ever started off without a random vote. Or, at least, I haven't read any threads that have started off w/ random votes.

The fact that you didn't want to start off with a random vote, though, interests me. It's odd that you'd be focused more on how the structure of the game is set up so early on, rather than random voting to get discussion started. I might be mistaken, but it would seem harder to get discussion started

without

random voting - especially since random votes are rearely serious, and can be withdrawn later on.

If I'm mistaken, though, please correct me. It's been many years since I played this.

[Shaw]

Interesting. I haven't seen games that didn't start with random voting, but I'm okay with trying this. Sirdanilot, what is it about starting games with random voting that you do not like? Taellen, same question as you indicated that you are not a fan of random voting.

[Taellan]

As for day length, it varies. I've seen a 7 page day one, which took only like a week and a half or something. I've also seen 30 page day ones, taking about a month. It's up to you, and everyone else, to determine how long it will last. Of course, all days after day one will take a shorter time, since there will be more information to analyze, and there will be less players.

A

month

for a

day

?

Really

? What exactly is it that y'all analyze?

Interesting. I haven't seen games that didn't start with random voting, but I'm okay with trying this. Sirdanilot, what is it about starting games with random voting that you do not like? Taellen, same question as you indicated that you are not a fan of random voting.

Random voting is

random

. It's a blind choice. There's absolutely no reasoning behind it (unless you want to make up a reason that makes no sense ). We might as well just tell the mod to draw a name out of a hat and kill that person instead of spending three weeks (or a month!) deciding that we have absolutely no idea who's guilty. Uh...I guess we'll kill that person there, because...well, just

because

. That's a seventy eight(ish) percent chance that we'll kill a good guy. IMO, those odds suck. Don't you agree?

With sirdanilot's method, we're basically poking everyone to see who will jump. The mafia are hiding something. Maybe we'll find it in their early game posts. Or maybe not. But any little hint helps increase our chances of getting a bad guy.

(Beware! Apparently your every word will be analyzed!)

[Bladewing Vorox]

As for day length, it varies. I've seen a 7 page day one, which took only like a week and a half or something. I've also seen 30 page day ones, taking about a month. It's up to you, and everyone else, to determine how long it will last. Of course, all days after day one will take a shorter time, since there will be more information to analyze, and there will be less players.

A

month

for a

day

?

Really

? What exactly is it that y'all analyze?

Interesting. I haven't seen games that didn't start with random voting, but I'm okay with trying this. Sirdanilot, what is it about starting games with random voting that you do not like? Taellen, same question as you indicated that you are not a fan of random voting.

Random voting is

random

. It's a blind choice. There's absolutely no reasoning behind it (unless you want to make up a reason that makes no sense ). We might as well just tell the mod to draw a name out of a hat and kill that person instead of spending three weeks (or a month!) deciding that we have absolutely no idea who's guilty. Uh...I guess we'll kill that person there, because...well, just

because

. That's a seventy eight(ish) percent chance that we'll kill a good guy. IMO, those odds suck. Don't you agree?

With sirdanilot's method, we're basically poking everyone to see who will jump. The mafia are hiding something. Maybe we'll find it in their early game posts. Or maybe not. But any little hint helps increase our chances of getting a bad guy.

(Beware! Apparently your every word will be analyzed!)

We do not random vote to get someone lynched, we random vote to get the discussion started.

[halflight007]

With sirdanilot's method, we're basically poking everyone to see who will jump. The mafia are hiding something. Maybe we'll find it in their early game posts. Or maybe not. But any little hint helps increase our chances of getting a bad guy.

Or it just takes the discussion longer to get started, because we're not sure where to start.

The reason I random voted is because sirdanilot's method is focusing more on the setup and gameplay rather than possible suspects, and that does not set well with me. I've been reading a lot of games, and I've never seen one start without RV. The fact that this one does sends up red flags w/ me.

[Locke Lamora]

Hi everyone, this is only my second game here and the first that I've actually been in from the start. I find the not random voting thing a bit weird as every game I've seen has it in but I guess it doesn't really make a difference as we seem to have started a discussion based on not random voting.

[halflight007]

This is true. Since discussion's actually started now, I'm going to

unvote

.

[Shaw]

We might as well just tell the mod to draw a name out of a hat and kill that person instead of spending three weeks (or a month!) deciding that we have absolutely no idea who's guilty. Uh...I guess we'll kill that person there, because...well, just

because

. That's a seventy eight(ish) percent chance that we'll kill a good guy. IMO, those odds suck. Don't you agree?

I would agree if it were the case that random voting was actually designed to lynch someone, but it seems that it's just to get things going, get reactions, and then vote accordingly after that. I don't think it's intended to actually lynch someone at random.

But, as I said, I'm okay with trying this method instead. Perhaps we'll start a new trend.

(Beware! Apparently your every word will be analyzed!)

Of that, I have no doubt. For instance, why do you use the word, "Beware!" here? Are you afraid of having your words analyzed? If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be afraid to speak your mind.

(P.S. I saw the smiley wink there, but I couldn't resist anyway.)

[Taellan]

We do not random vote to get someone lynched, we random vote to get the discussion started.

Hmm. So everyone randomly picks a name, and then we spend the rest of the 'day' analyzing the lack of reasoning behind our choices? Until we decide which unreasonable accusation makes the most sense? Where exactly does that get us? The townies aren't gonna have better reasons than the mafia. In the end, it all boils down to finding those little nuances of guilt in a player's post, which, I think, is probably what sirdanilot is suggesting we do

right now

.

Or it just takes the discussion longer to get started, because we're not sure where to start.

Even after we all randomly select a player we'd like to lynch (and possibly give a nonsensical un-mafia reason for our choice), I'm sure we'll

still

have no clue where to start. Having the discussion first (which seems to be going well) is sort of an introduction of all the players

before

you cast your vote and make an 'enemy'. A vote pretty much translates to "I want you dead. You're expendable, and I really hope you're scum."

The reason I random voted is because sirdanilot's method is

focusing more on the setup and gameplay rather than possible suspects

, and that does not set well with me. I've been reading a lot of games, and I've never seen one start without RV. The fact that this one does sends up red flags w/ me.

What possible suspects? What 'evidence' or suspicion do we have against

anyone

? By focusing on gameplay and setup

now

, we can improve the odds that our eventual top suspects will actually be mafia. That makes complete sense to me.

[Taellan]

I would agree if it were the case that random voting was actually designed to lynch someone, but it seems that it's just to get things going, get reactions, and then vote accordingly after that. I don't think it's intended to actually lynch someone at random.

Okay. That works, I guess. Voting just for the sake of discussion. This is my first game on this site, so I'm not used to the 'system', yet.

I think it would save time, though, to just discuss and vote when whe know who we want to lynch...

(And, yes. That last bit was more of a dig at those who analyse everything. For a

month

. Oy! I think my brain would explode!)

[halflight007]

Even after we all randomly select a player we'd like to lynch (and possibly give a nonsensical un-mafia reason for our choice), I'm sure we'll

still

have no clue where to start.

Not true. I've seen some very good discussions develop out of random voting. For example, I've seen discussion develop out of someone saying they were careful not to post first or last with a vote, so as not to look like the "mafia."

Having the discussion first (which seems to be going well) is sort of an introduction of all the players

before

you cast your vote and make an 'enemy'. A vote pretty much translates to "I want you dead. You're expendable, and I really hope you're scum."

Prove that I thought hungrymelon was an enemy, please, or that I had any malicious intent towards him?

What possible suspects? What 'evidence' or suspicion do we have against

anyone

? By focusing on gameplay and setup

now

, we can improve the odds that our eventual top suspects will actually be mafia. That makes complete sense to me.

Except it's a tactic used by scum. "Information Instead of Analysis" sound familiar?

"players who speculate about the setup more than they ask for other players' reasoning and/or accuse other players of being scum are probably group scum".

And unless I'm reading this tell wrong, I think it applies to random voting, too. The fact that you didn't want to random vote has me curious. It makes me think that he's trying to hide something.

(ICs, did I use that tell right?)

[Taellan]

Not true. I've seen some very good discussions develop out of random voting. For example, I've seen discussion develop out of someone saying they were careful not to post first or last with a vote, so as not to look like the "mafia."

Alright. Like I said in the previous post, I'm new here, so I don't know how you all do things. I didn't mean to attack the standard order of the newbie game, I was only saying that sirdanilot's idea made sense to me, and I was defending my opinion. =]

Having the discussion first (which seems to be going well) is sort of an introduction of all the players

before

you cast your vote and make an 'enemy'. A vote pretty much translates to "I want you dead. You're expendable, and I really hope you're scum."

Prove that I thought hungrymelon was an enemy, please, or that I had any malicious intent towards him?

I was half joking, there. I'm sure hungrymelon knows you don't

really

want to kill him. And I'm sure he knows that this is the first round, and you have to pick

someone

. However, you did single him out of the crowd as a possible 'first sacrifice' to get the game moving. It's nothing personal. That's just how you play. But I bet he's gonna be watching you from now on.

My point was that votes shouldn't be cast lightly, IMO. They're like stones. It may not kill a player, but he'll definitely take notice.

What possible suspects? What 'evidence' or suspicion do we have against

anyone

? By focusing on gameplay and setup

now

, we can improve the odds that our eventual top suspects will actually be mafia. That makes complete sense to me.

Except it's a tactic used by scum. "Information Instead of Analysis" sound familiar?

"players who speculate about the setup more than they ask for

other players' reasoning

and/or accuse other players of being scum are probably group scum".

And unless I'm reading this tell wrong, I think it applies to random voting, too. The fact that you didn't want to random vote has me curious. It makes me think that he's trying to hide something.

(ICs, did I use that tell right?)

Halflight, what exactly is your reasoning for voting for hungrymelon? You don't have one, right? Hmm. Only scum vote for players without a good reason. (Teasing again, in case you couldn't tell.)

No player has any real, logical reasoning to go by in day one. All sirdanilot did was get discussion started. He didn't say nobody should vote. He

did

ask for other players' opinions, though, which I think is a very pro-town thing to do. Get people talking, whether it's about votes or gameplay or strategy or what they had for dinner last night. This gets us

information

so we can

analyze

it (which you're already doing).