NY139: Underground Mafia (Game over!)

[Battousai]

Here, reading. If someone is close to a lynch, link me to the case presented plz. If that's not the case, then I'll just read.

[Battousai]

FYI- I'm still reading the thread, no need to prod, mod.

[Battousai]

Sorry, been working on a paper. I'm almost done reading the thread, I'll be finished this weekend.

[Battousai]

Two bodyguards tells me there may are probably multiple killing roles in the game (since they are town bgs, most likely an anti-town faction).

I really don't see scum killing red, so I am assuming he protected someone and died. Looking at his most recent reads, eep and hiraki would be who I would suspect him of protecting.

Also, when scum sees town being counterclaimed, they are more likely to take a backseat and let town lynch itself. So I would put scum either at the very end of the wagon or not on it at all. Maybe last 3 (eep, Stevie, sorg) and stringer, taa, and trekker as most likely containing at least 2 scum.

So, I would say sorg and taa are the scummiest of the 6, and Taa is the scummiest of the 2.

Vote: Taa

[Battousai]

Still keeping my vote on TAA. He is prob SK claiming vig. The fact that he calls people who find him scummy idiots, is also pretty funny. He claims the kill on Hiraki, who I have a decent town read on, also pushes it to being more likely that he was trying to kill a townie.

Eep, I can't tell if she isn't really paying attention to the game or is generally trying to twist everything into a scum slip... The reason uprising knows that 2 town players were killed by Taa is because they flipped town. You do realize there were 3 nights so far?

[Battousai]

Taa- D1 you said red was scum if daphne flips town (next day you switch it with sorg), yet you don't kill him. Explain.

Taa- D2 you said one of sorgerster, eep, and david (who was lynched) was scum, yet you don't kill either of them, nor red. Explain

Taa- Looking back at your posts, you don't give any indication of the fact that you killed anyone. Even when there was only 1 kill, you seem indifferent. I would think a vig would be wondering why there was only 1 kill (their's), and at least put some kind of hint for looking back that you planned on or even did kill someone.

[Battousai]

The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably,

Serial Killers

and Doctors do not have guns.

[Battousai]

1) scum= all anti-town roles. SK is antitown, therefore scum. Mafia is scum, but not all scum is mafia. That's just for taa's idea that sk isn't scum.

Now onto relevancy:

Hiraki, if taa has partners, he would be more likely mafia and therefore would show up has having a gun. The fact that he hasn't shown a gun is tells me, and should tell you, that he is SK as SK's don't hold guns for the gunsmith role, like I quoted. That would mean wasting time by getting him to tell us his partners through reads and such is fruitless.

We could keep him around, though. But only if we can trust him to kill who we say to kill, and not give up halfway down the line and say "fuck it, I'm going to lose anyways might as well go out with a bang." I think that if we keep him alive he will kill who he wants to kill (so far, townies). I don't trust him, so I'm keeping my vote on him.

[Battousai]

vote:sorgster

[Battousai]

Sorgster is scum, simple as that. I mean look at his vote on me. OMGUS. He tries to explain that away as me not being active, but when I'm active (day I replaced in I was rereading and day ended before I could post) yesterday I was fairly active. Yes I had only 5 out of 80 some posts (average would be 7 something posts per person), but of those 5, there were no fluff. Sorgster had 3, maybe 4 (depending on what you consider fluff) actual posts yesterday. Then today he goes after me instead of nocase slot. CSL replaced in and has failed to post (not even a I'm here and reading post). If the whole reason for voting me was because he thought inactives = scum, then he should have voted CSL.

Another point is that he calls for mass claim and at the same time tries to tell us there are 4 scum. That doesn't mix well. I mean, if there are 4 scum (not to add credence to there actually being 4) mass claim is the worst thing town can do. If you believe there are 4 scum, then you should be calling for no lynch and not voting players or going for a mass claim (4 scum, 6 town = mylo). He probably thinks that since 4 scum was brought up yesterday, going for a mass claim before mylo is brought up will help scum eliminate any PR that may hurt them in lylo tomorrow.

Sorgster is scum, simple as that. I'm very confident in this.

[Battousai]

That can't be possible. Sorgester is super scummy. Hell he even admitted to OMGUSing me ("counter voting") in "the last day phase."


Vifam- What makes you think it is a confirmed masonry?

unvote

[Battousai]

Hmm, there was a 1-shot masonry, so I guess that would mean sorgster/vifam are confirmed town (since vifam was already confirmed from hiraki).

Antb was brought up two days ago and today as well, what is the case on him?

[Battousai]

Ugh, why do you have to be conf town... you just ooze anti-town behavior

If we are going to mass claim, we need everyone to agree first. Personally, I'm not a fan of mass claim right now. There are probably 3 scum left as 3 scum + 1 SK + confirmed roles we know + my role leads me to believe that 3 scum/1 SK is more balanced.

[Battousai]

Why?

[Battousai]

Sorgster- You are making assumptions. Don't. Scum could easily crosskilled, no killed on purpose, blocked, or couldn't kill for some reason. I also don't understand why "both deaths were on that wagon" = scum off wagon?

Vifam/Eep- Case on Antb since you brought him up for lynch consideration early today.

[Battousai]

Vifam- I'm still waiting on a case from you on AntB

[Battousai]

It would result in a game of trying to outguess the mod "the mod wouldn't put that role in this setup... that role isn't exactly balanced with that role..." for a little bit, then we'd be back into the same crawl we are in now. Then scum knows which roles to kill to get the best chance at winning in endgame.

[Battousai]

Also prod AntB, plz.

I want to know why Vifam (confirmed town) says AntB is scum

[Battousai]

If not enough people want to play...

Vote for player abandonment!

Failure for anything to be done is cause for abandonment. I've been trying to get information out of Vifam for a while now, and he just refuses to play. Something needs to be done.

[Battousai]

A long, long while back... page 23. I was hoping you'd make a case on him since that read was > half a game ago.

[Battousai]

Mod: Due to the inactivity, maybe shortening the deadline will get people to actually play

[Battousai]

Sorgster- At least give your reads as well...

Right now, I'd say it is you (though vifam hasn't been forthcoming in making you confirmed town, you are more likely town that plays like scum)

And that's about it. Everyone else is around middle of the road. The fact that AntB was coming up, I was wanting to know why.

[Battousai]

Post when I get back from class...

[Battousai]

AntB- You were brought up as scum for the past few days, but I never saw a case. That is why I was asking about it.

This game is so slow... I change my mind. A mass claim might actually do something to spark more discussion (especially if scum fake claims).

Sorgster already claimed a 1-shot mason and picked me to go second...

I am a hider.

Next to claim will be... Stevie

I think actions should be listed last, in order of scummiest to towniest to help get scum caught in a lie.

[Battousai]

Say one person claims tracker, another doctor. If scum claims after the first, they can say they performed an action x, y, z safely as they won't be contradicted. Say scum picks town 1 to claim, then town picks scum 2 to claim. Scum 2 can change their actions based on town 1. Now if we all save actions until after MC, as a group we can decide who claims which actions first, second, third, etc.

And I meant fake claim a PR, and not the easy VT claim.

[Battousai]

Pretty sure CSL is scum now... only reason why mod wouldn't just replace him is because CSL is tactically lurking. Just waiting to finish mass claim...


Stevie, you've been up. Let's keep this rolling.

[Battousai]

Call him scum and he comes running from V/la...

[Battousai]

AntB- VT
Battousai- Hider
CSL- VT
Eep-
Sorgster- 1 shot masonizer
Stevie- VT
Stringer Bell-
Trekker- Role Cop
Uprising- Watcher
Vifam- became mason/

Those are the roles that have been claimed, if I miss one or please post a new list with a quote of it to back it up.

So, we need Eep, Vifam to claim initial role, and Stringer Bell to claim.

[Battousai]

4 vt claims... Pretty much certain that at least 1 scum will claim VT. I mean, no need to rock the boat at this juncture.

VT's are Eep, CSL, Stevie, AntB.

The biggest suspicions are all on these players as well, which probably isn't just a coincidence.


Before voting though, we need to pick who of the PR's goes next in their targets.

[Battousai]

N1: Therainman
N2: TAA
N3: Trekker
N4: Eep

A little bit more about my role, I was told that I wouldn't die if I hid behind scum. I took this plus the 1-shot neighborizer to mean that my role's intended purpose was to either give town an extra neighbor or to give town an extra investigation (if I hid behind a cop target).

Uprising-
Did you get a result from me hiding behind TAA, since you also watched him N2?-----

Hint, you should have been told that I targetted him

Why did you watch Redff N3? He had a greater chance at being scum do to counterclaiming a bodyguard and a very low chance of being NK'd. He did, however, have a decent chance of being investigated by town cops.-----

personally, I think you fakeclaimed watcher (less likely to be countered and already breadcrumbed it for future claim), claimed you watched redff and used the fact that red was killed and you didn't see anything to add a false air of possiblity.

Vote: Uprising

for lying about watching Taa N2.

[Battousai]

Wait wait wait... why are votes being thrown around at this juncture? We have two conflicting claims, therefore we have caught 1 scum definitively. We should be focusing in on myself and Uprising right now (doesn't apply to mastin who is getting his reads out while rereading, though he shouldn't be voting either until he is completely caught up).

[Battousai]

I don't see how there could be a hidden part, especially in a normal game. Uprising should have gotten a result of (Daybid visited Taa; No one visited Daybid). With the hider role, actions aren't "ninja" style so they can be tracked/watched (if applied to the person I'm hiding with). There is no way, 0, that he wouldn't have been told that Daybid visited Taa. None. He is confirmed scum (to me), and a 50/50 shot for everyone else, excluding simple scumhunting/educated guessing.

Mastin2- The scenerio of lynching for information seems faulty. If there are so many PR's (even if 1-2 are false), I would think that this is possible lylo now as scum would have to have 4 members for balance. We need to hit scum today (and is why I'm pushing uprising at this juncture, as he is confirmed scum to me), because if it is lylo, there is no vig/killing role safety net to kill scum to keep the game alive.

Hope that made sense, really need to get to bed...

[Battousai]

do you think JoaT is weirder than rolecop?

Only just. The two claims seem overpowered compared to the rest of our claims and flips.

---

Uprising is town, hider mechanic is probably a funky one... blegh...

How is uprising town? I really don't understand why people are ignoring this. This is a normal setup. Watchers will be told that I visited their target. Uprising claims he didn't receive that info. 1 + 1 = 2, not 2.382098....

[Battousai]

Ugh, how can I get through to you that we can't both be town? What is it about hider that you don't understand. Also, what about probable lylo and lynching someone using info we gain if he flips town as a basis for the lynch, is faulty? We need to lynch correctly here.

Mastin- You aren't willing to lynch a 1 v 1 (based on CLAIMS), but instead you think 1 v 1 based on vote count analysis is more viable. It's like you are going out of your way to not lynch uprising or myself.


Ugh, preview edit: Sorgster you unvote now because my flipping town doesn't confirm anyone besides uprising as scum, I assume. Ok, who do we lynch tomorrow? The next day? When do we vote between myself and uprising? My thought is that if we are going to decide between myself and uprising, we should do it today. Tomorrow, we can lynch trekker/stringer and we will have a higher chance at getting another confirmed player (role cop, doctor prevention). If you are going for most information, we can wait until we gain more information and lynch someone we will eventually lynch.

Mastin- Wtf... you are going town reads trumps simple logic? To paraphrase what you are saying "Uprising is townish, batt is townish therefore my reads trump the FACT that one of these two is lying about their role." I wonder how scum managed to play a perfect game? Because they appear townish and we go for the town player who plays scummy every time.

Preview edit/MS won't work for a sec edit:

Mastin- You make a leap of logic here. I was told that I wouldn't be killed if I hide behind scum, but not told what would happen if I hide behind someone who is targeted? Even if by some slim margin, that Uprising would be told that I didn't visit TAA- HE WOULD STILL BE TOLD THAT NO ONE VISITED DAYBID/BATTOUSAI. I'm assuming on the first part that he would be told that I visited Taa since hider untargetable ability only applies when I am targetted and watchers target who I visit, but I was flat out told that whatever happens to my target, happens to me. In my role pm (trying to paraphrase here) I had two passive abilities- and those were about what happens if I target scum and what happens if I target someone who is targetted by another role. Whatever happens to who I hide behind, happens to me as well. They die, I die; they investigated, I investigated.

That is why I'm so damn sure that Uprising is lying through his teeth.

[Battousai]

My last post was long, but that was because I kept having to edit it as I preview edited. I don't see how I freaked out, but at least you are voting one of me/uprising now (though you are voting town; it's a start).

Support- We need 6, there's me, sorgster, mastin (though he is voting me, he is voting one of uprising/myself scenerio so is at least up for lynching one of us), stringer then the +2-3 that happens when deadline approaches/scare should be enough support to get one of myself or uprising lynched. Now we have a good starting point. Now I'm going to go to read uprising ISO to try and convince the 2-3 others and mastin who is stuck on trying to outguess the mod's setup.

[Battousai]

Mastin- Explain to me how uprising wouldn't be told that I visited Taa or wasn't told that no one visited me when my role pm states that what happens to who I hide behind, happens to me. The only reason you are refusing is because it puts a hole in your vote count analysis/outguessing setup speculation. You say in your plan that Uprising should target someone who I target.

It's 1 v 1 no matter which way you look at it. It's either 1 v 1 based on claim action crashing or 1 v 1 on vc analysis/outguessing setup (and we all know how reliable that can be).

Tired of talking to matin. He's either very stubbornly wrong, or scum trying to get a mislynch.

For the rest of you huddled masses who don't talk much. Let me talk to you. Here is the case put forth:

We either lynch trekker or stringer. Their claims don't really add up and there is a decent probability that one of them is scum. If we lynch correctly we will have decent info for tomorrow. If we lynch incorrectly, we have a decent probability of losing and a small probability of having some information tomorrow.

or

We lynch myself or Uprising. My role's passive ability means that when I target someone and they are investigated, I will be investigated as well. Uprising claimed to have watched someone I hid behind, but didn't get anything. Wasn't told I targeted Taa nor was told that no one targeted me (watcher is an investigation role, and my role dictates that watcher would be at least be told if anyone targeted me). This is a definitive 1 v 1 in high probable lylo. We lynch correctly and the above role cop/joat will give us more information for when we lynch one of them than if we lynched them today.

So to sum up: Probable lylo- Either go for the definitive 1 v 1 and extra information after tomorrow's lynch or go for the probable 1 v 1 and get information now but less than if we wait.

[Battousai]

Fuck it. Not enough time to sway enough support for uprising. Of Trekker/Stringer, Stringer's play has been much scummier and his claim is less likely to be true.

Vote: Stringer

[Battousai]

Oh, btw the vote for stringer is 5 (myself, trekker, mastin, antb, stevie)

[Battousai]

Uh, and per mastin's role plan. If I stay with innocent townie nhwo is ganked, that's two deaths and scum win. I'm not going to use my ability...

[Battousai]

U

h, and

p

er mastin's

r

ole plan.

I

f I

s

tay with

i

nnocent townie

n

hwo is

g

anked, that's two deaths and scum win. I'm not going to use my ability...

Not sure what you are getting with the vote sorgster. I hid behind uprising as that way I wouldn't be killed (he's scum, so no chance of my target being killed).

[Battousai]

How original. Scum claims guilty result when their back is to the wall. Today is a 1 v 1 between me and uprising, and he comes up with the only thing that would keep him alive.

I'd vote, but I want more information for tomorrow. So... I'll wait for more people to post...

[Battousai]

Don't know where sorgster stands, his posts confuse me...

Uprising's 1606 is misrep. I said I wouldn't target anyone, but I planned to hide behind uprising (hence the embedding of his name in my post). The reason I said I wouldn't was an attempt to get the scum to take a chance at killing me (and hence, no kill would have happened).

Pine- All I can say is, read the thread. It's been 1 v 1 with uprising and me since yesterday when he claimed that he didn't see me hiding with TAA. I pushed hard for people to start voting between us. And the fact that town power can easily imply today/yesterday as mylo so there is no reason to fall on my sword to guarantee uprising's death tomorrow if there wouldn't be a tomorrow if I die.

[Battousai]

Woah, unvote. I think I'm at L-1! No quicklynches!

[Battousai]

Ok, to defend myself a bit... I think I've played similarly to uprising. We've both play a little low key for the most part. I think the only difference was that uprising was content with doing nothing yesterday, whereas I got discussion going by rekindling the mass claim. I've tried finding scum, uprising has just really lurked for the most part. Those voting haven't put up a case as to why I'm scum, so that's the best defense I got right now.

[Battousai]

'Pine- I don't get how someone can go "guilty result = scum" in this scenerio. Uprising claimed a guilty because yesterday it was 1 v 1 between us (and in that scenerio, I called uprising out for lying about her role, which is flipped today). Your only reason for wanting me to swing is because uprising claimed a guilty and you don't take into account of anything that happened yesterday.

Eep- I'm acting desperately? How is that a scum tell when all the claimed roles tell us it's 5 town v 3 scum (mylo)


Stevie- WTF? Trekker hasn't even given his results yet. No quicklynches!

[Battousai]

The setup:
1-shot Neighborizer
2 Town bodyguards
Gunsmith
1-shot Masonizer
Role Cop
Hider

vs

Bulletproof Serial Killer

vs

Mafia goon
2-3 mystery mafia roles

Now if you look at the fact that there is a SK that can't be NK'd (if mafia played too well, they'd be NK'd, too bad they be lynched), 2 protective roles, a role that makes itself and another player confirmed town, 2 investigative roles, plus my role which could swing it so that any of investigative roles can get a bonus investigation or make me confirmed town if masonizer and myself target same person: 4 scum seems much more balanced than 3.

[Battousai]

Pine- For god's sake. You were wanting me dead without even reading the thread... Yesterday uprising claimed to watch TAA and saw nothing. I claimed I visited TAA and he should have seen me.

Trekker- Your post confuses me. Did you get two results or one?

[Battousai]

Pine... uh why am I scum and not uprising?

[Battousai]

Pine that doesn't even make a lick of sense. Your vote on me was because:

"Hang Battousai, or hang Uprising if we find out he was lying. Win-win."

Your whole case was following the cop. There was no need to ask you something you've already stated. I've been actually defending myself to you this entire day by telling you to read teh the thread in order to form a case on me that wasn't faulty "follow the cop"

[Battousai]

Accept that I'd be autolynch if he flipped town? By my account, this is mylo. THERE IS NO TOMORROW IF ANYONE FLIPS TOWN. I've been doing everything to persuade you stop your follow the cop mentality (which I figured reading the thread would help because I was advocating a 1 v 1 between me and uprising for two days now and him suddenly getting a guilty result on me would seem suspicious as anyone else on my supposed scumteam could have performed the kill themselves).

You want ironclad evidence? No such thing in mafia. However, trekker got a hider result on me. Which cop do you follow now? The one who is part of the 1 v 1 or the one on the outside? Your problem is two-fold. You don't read the thread, and you are tunneling on me. For some reason you believe uprising from the get go, and you are tunneling on that aspect without taking anything else into consideration. Hell, the first thing you said when trekker said that I was a hider was that he was scum. Who does that, except those who are in the middle of a tunnel?

[Battousai]

By my account

, this is mylo.

^Scumslip. Forgot to say "this -may- be MyLo". Knows for certain the number of scum, final nail in the coffin.

Also, in other news, we now know for certain that we are indeed in MyLo.

What part of read the thread or knowing the definition of my account has you confused? I've been saying all along that this is mylo based on the roles.

Though that was a good try in trying to ignore my last post and just focused on one little thing. Now I'm pretty sure that Pine is scum with uprising. It actually makes sense, too. We haven't been able to get scum lynched until the mass claim, because it seems like at least half of the scum were basically inactive/lurking.

[Battousai]

Son of a bitch. I told you. I fucking told you. GG scum, you win. I'm a motherflipping town hider

[Battousai]

I honestly didn't know why everyone was believing Uprising over me, especially when a more-likely-town-than-not-based-on-stringer-flipping-scum-role-cop claimed that I was a hider. Everyone was all, ya but uprising is a town read for defending well when attacking scummy or just wasn't even participating (antb).

Plus I didn't understand it when it was me vs Uprising. Why would there be some other reason for Uprising to claim that no one visited TAA and for me to claim I did? One of has to be scum. I just don't get the thinking that because my claim is hider that there must be something hidden (even after I said that my role PM stated that if I hide behind someone who is investigated, I will be investigated as well).

Mastin- Your theory that I was scum if you died was flawed. True, but flawed. You were pretty much considered town by everyone. Double that with you leading to stringer's lynch would net you an immediate kill no matter if I was town or not.

In the end, town played well do to Pine and mastin. If they didn't replace in, it would have been over much earlier. Hell, if I didn't rekindle the mass claim it would have ended then with a quicklynch at deadline (game was seriously stalled and was no fun).

Sorry to the rest of the scum team for my gambit. I would have thought town would buy my hider claim if trekker claimed that I was a hider and Uprising was no result (hint, town was supposed to think Uprising is a godfather and immune to investigations, and me hiding with him would give him double results). Though, trekker messed up the claim, it should have claimed to a lynch, imo, before then.

[Battousai]

You got me...