Mini 1379 - Game Over!


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Post Post #1325 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:44 am

Post by mastin2 »

Godfather speculation: In a word, this is bullshit. There's no other way of saying it.
Other than myself, we have four claimed power roles, ALL of them one-shot. A one-shot cop, a one-shot hider, a one-shot vig, and a universal backup.

If I'm a godfather, that means that the one-shot cop is useless, and if the universal backup inherits that role, they're useless, REDUCING THE TOTAL TOWN POWER TO ONLY
TWO ONE-SHOT ROLES
. Do you think this game is mountainous or something? 'Cause that's pretty much what you have to believe in order for me to be scum.

And here's why I've been pushing UN on why he's not voting Axxle:
QT wrote:You know, I
said
a UN-Axxle team was doubtful, but UN's refusal to vote for Axxle is making me somewhat hesitant to make that call. :/
Because, as town, it'd make no sense for UN to vote me over Axxle.
Axxle-mastin has Axxle as scum.
Axxle-claiming-inno can have Axxle as scum.

As outlined above, that's two scenarios where Axxle is scum, versus only one where I am. So if he believes that I'm scum, he believes Axxle is scum as well. And if he believes Axxle to be scum, it makes more sense to vote for Axxle, because Axxle is more likely scum than I am. Yet no vote on Axxle?
It made me suspicious, increasingly more so as the debate went on, of a scenario:
A UN-Axxle scumteam. Axxle claims an inno on me, but UN continues to push me as scum. UN doesn't want to switch over to Axxle...why?
Because he doesn't want Axxle lynched.

This is what I was alluding to earlier, with the posts on them. In Axxle's favor, he has a good point about having no scum motive for claiming an inno on me in mylo, but again--why would UN pursue me? Having more votes on me is BS.


Cooldog wrote:the wiki is bullshit.
Cooldog, you're not
this
bad. The wiki is the mafiascum wiki. It used to be bs, sure, but
there was a cleanup project to bring the wiki up to date
.

Also,
Mod: If a hypothetical doctor were included in this game, would their protection protect against one or all kills?

You didn't think to ask this before...why?

There, counter that.
I'm not. There, counter that.

Yeah, Cooldog. Stop being a moron. The questions are good. Nobody's answered 1252, because they can't answer it with me being scum. Nobody's answered 1275, because they can't answer it with me being scum.

I think set-up is pretty balanced against a vanilla scum team.
Three one-shot roles, balanced against a vanilla scumteam? No, not when one of them is a hider (a weak role itself!) and the other two have no protection against kills. You're claiming the setup's
-One-shot vig,
-One-shot cop,
-One shot hider,

Against three vanilla scum. That's not even remotely balanced; it's incredibly scum-sided. If those roles weren't one-shot? Sure, maybe. But they are. You know this. You know it's not balanced. But just for the heck of it,
Mod: Was this game approved for balance?


BBMolla wrote:I think you have too many people on you to be town.
BBM, in mylo, it takes two town names on someone to mislynch, along with the entire scumteam. 5 to lynch. 3 scum. The names on me are Cooldog (town #1), UberNinja (scum #1), and havingfitz (scum #2). The wagon on me is scum-driven, 'cause guess what? They're trying to get me lynched, when all logic points to me being town.
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Post Post #1326 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:54 am

Post by UberNinja »

If you were town, then why the hell would Axxle-scum clear you, when there were 3 votes on you?

LOLNO. He would have claimed a scum result for an easy win.

You keep trying to obfuscate facts with walls of text, but it's not working. You're caught scum and flailing.
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Post Post #1327 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:57 am

Post by mastin2 »

Really. The case against me boils down to:
"You're scum!" Why?
"You are. That's why!" Except, I'm not, and this is why I'm not. *long list of reasons*
"I don't have to answer that, because you're scum!" Really, now? Then what about the innocent on me?
"Godfather!" To counter a one-shot role?!?
"Axxle's your scumbuddy!" So why are you voting me, when your whole case relies on Axxle being scum?
"Because you're confirmed scum!"
Why
am I confirmed scum?
"Because your claim is bullshit!"
What
in my claim is bullshit?
"It's bullshit." Again, why?
"Because you're scum, that's why!"

This is not at all an inaccurate description of the case against me. :P
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Post Post #1328 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:02 am

Post by redtail896 »

Actually, I feel even more strongly now that we need a massclaim. Support for this?
You can just call me Redtail. If I could, I'd change my name to that anyway.
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Post Post #1329 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:06 am

Post by CooLDoG »

mastin wrote:Godfather speculation: In a word, this is bullshit.

Interesting that when you think up some crazy-ass illogical theory its the best thing ever, but when someone else has a semi-plausible explanation you shoot it down as bullshit. Maybe that's because the most logical explanation for all of this is that you are scum and are trying to worm your way out o fit.
mastin wrote:If I'm a godfather, that means that the one-shot cop is useless

NOOOO the cop still has a 2/12 n1! and a 2/12 n2! He is everything but useless!
mastin wrote:Cooldog, you're not this bad. The wiki is the mafiascum wiki. It used to be bs, sure, but there was a cleanup project to bring the wiki up to date.

I think the wiki is wrong because the alleged vanilla role of "doctor" violates one of the fundamental principals of mafia, that is informed minority V. uninformed majority.

@UN, claim, now


p=edit: 100% support.
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Post Post #1330 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:17 am

Post by mastin2 »

Cooldog wrote:Interesting that when you think up some crazy-ass illogical theory its the best thing ever,
Except, thanks to my role, it's not a theory. It's a proven fact. I protected Trollie. Trollie died. I was either roleblocked (like there'd be a roleblocker in a setup with all the roles one-shot), or (far more probably) Trollie was double-killed. There's no theory in there. The simpler explanation is that Trollie was double-killed; the more complex solution is that my protection failed for some reason.

The most complex and convoluted explanation is that I'm scum, who had this elaborate fakeclaim meticulously planned out, backed out at the last second for no discernible reason to claim something totally different, when I didn't do my research, when I didn't ask the mod the questions above, when I didn't look at the wiki, and to top it all off, that I'm a godfather who pulled this crazy gambit for some ridiculous reason in a setup with one-shot roles where a godfather is folly.

There's no way you can simplify that theory, because that's what it takes for me to be scum.

I've been giving crystal-clear reasons why I'm town. People are ignoring them. Not because they think I'm scum, but because they can't logically answer them. The case on me is entirely subjective, as I point in 1327.

People are making the facts fit the theory, rather than the theory fit the facts.
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Post Post #1331 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:39 am

Post by havingfitz »

Tied up all day with work. My catch-up won't be until tomorrow.
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Post Post #1332 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:55 am

Post by UberNinja »

I'm in favor of a massclaim as well. It's the logical step here. My role is...





*drumroll*





VT!

Unfortunately not as glorious as I'd hoped to make people think. i.e. I have no role related info on anyone. But I was hoping to make somebody slip up.

Kimor or havingfitz next. Redtail last, imo.

Unless I missed where one of y'all already claimed that is
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Post Post #1333 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:30 am

Post by MattP »

Kimor has been prodded
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Post Post #1334 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:49 am

Post by BBmolla »

I just wanna no lynch guys.
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Post Post #1335 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:54 am

Post by UberNinja »

Uhhhh did you not read

In post 1323, UberNinja wrote:
In post 1318, BBmolla wrote:UN why not no lynch I don't understand.

Because we wouldn't gain anything from it. One less active townie's voice would be here (because they wouldn't kill a lurker townie obv), and it'd probably be Cooldog or havingfitz because I am under more suspicion.

And then tomorrow, quickhammering an incorrect vote is all the easier for them because it's 4:3 instead of 5:3, and it takes less votes to lynch. Instead of having to get 2 townies to vote "wrong", all they need is one errant vote and bam, 1-2-3 quick hammer.

So we're not no-lynching today because that's fucking epically retarded
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Post Post #1336 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:59 am

Post by mastin2 »

UN's right. He's wrong about who'd die with a no-lynch, (since the scum aren't going to kill Cooldog when he's supporting them, and fitz is probscum), but he's right about what'd happen:
Nothing. Given the massclaim has already started and we only have three of eight players unclaimed, no lynching is a tremendously stupid idea. :P

It's basic mafia theory. You either massclaim or you no-lynch, not both. We're massclaiming, so we're not no-lynching.
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Post Post #1337 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:09 am

Post by BBmolla »

But

I'm fine with either of those dying and it actually helps me understand what is going on more. If they kill someone who is "super townie" then it'll probably help indicate who is scum.

Consider me dead for today I guess, I'm not gonna vote until it's neccesary.
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Post Post #1338 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:21 am

Post by mastin2 »

Let me spell it out for you, BBM:
They can't kill UN, because either UN's scum, or he might as well be. :P
They can't kill fitz, for the same reason.
They can't kill Cooldog, because he's their strongest ally for a mastin-mislynch.
They can't kill Axxle, because he's either scum, or town with an inno, which'd confirm me as town.
They can't kill me, because doing so would be suicidal.
They can't kill Kimor, because either Kimor is scum, or he's their secondary scapegoat.

They can kill redtail or you. Neither of which would help anyone.
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Post Post #1339 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:23 am

Post by Kimor »

Sorry, I've been extremely, extremely busy. I hope to update this game tonight.
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Post Post #1340 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:24 am

Post by mastin2 »

Kimor, we're massclaiming.
It's your turn. Claim now, before tonight.
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Post Post #1341 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:27 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 1340, mastin2 wrote:Kimor, we're massclaiming.
It's your turn. Claim now, before tonight.
And I know you're still online, so I'm bumping this topic to the top of Little Italy to help make sure you see it.
We've been waiting on you for far too long. Content can wait 'til tonight, but your claim cannot.
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Post Post #1342 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:11 pm

Post by MattP »

In post 1325, mastin2 wrote:Mod: Was this game approved for balance?

Yes.

Other question intentionally ignored.
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Post Post #1343 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:26 pm

Post by UberNinja »

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Post Post #1344 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:26 pm

Post by UberNinja »

I am literally that annoyed. I figured if I became annoying as well, others might get as mad as I am.
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Post Post #1345 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:46 pm

Post by UberNinja »

Okay, here's another look at things:

We all know that if we don't lynch mastin today we are screwed. If we no lynch, scum get to pick and choose who to kill to try to manipulate us into changing our reads away from mastin.
And then one errant vote tomorrow means they can 1-2-3 quick hammer. I don't really trust anyone in this game not to make that mistake. Including myself. (Unless people intend to lynch mastin after a no lynch ANYWAY, then why not just go ahead and get it done now while we still have an extra townie?) No-lynching makes absolutely no sense in ANY case.

Axxle, if you're town. Vote mastin. I swear to you that he's scum. If you're scum w/him then vote him anyway because I will kill you.
BBmolla, you're probably town. And you know I'm town too. So vote mastin. I have been wrong before but I am not wrong now.
Redtail, you seem like you are ready to believe in mastin-scum due to my amazing persuasion skills and general handsomeness. Do it.
Kimor, you're probably the last scumbuddy which is why you're lurking and why mastin is trying to distance from you by calling you out for it.
mastin, vote yourself. You know you want to. Your time here is over and you're just annoyingly prolonging the inevitable.
Smart and pretty much conftown people (aka me, fitz, cooldog): Keep being good looking and awesome.

Also, here's
another
way of looking at things:

There are three votes on mastin. That either means TWO scum are voting him, or that mastin's scum and his buddies refuse to bus.

Why two? Because if there were three non-mastin scum, they would have hopped on the wagon and hammered already.
And it's really, really, REALLY unlikely that either cooldog or fitz are scum, LET ALONE both of them.

Ergo, mastin MUST be scum. That's the
only
other explanation.
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Post Post #1346 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:05 pm

Post by Kimor »

Ok, I caught up.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything terribly exiting to bring up, I'm vanilla.

Axxle's claim is terrible, terrible, terrible, though. It's exactly the sort of claim that I would expect a fairly newer MS player as scum to make, given that backup roles are rare, but not unheard of, thus meaning that he is unlikely to get counter-claimed.

As I see it, he is likely scum with UN. I've put Axxle in my top tier of scumminess all along, and this weird claim confirms it. His weird interactions with UN move UN from a null-leaning-scum to scum, if Axxle flips scum. If UN were scum and Axxle were not scum, I would have expected UN to come out guns blazing with an Axxle vote, as he has on most everybody else that's flipped town. Since he didn't, though...

Intent to vote/hammer Axxle
, depending on the vote count.

(BTW, sorry for my lack of posts. I officially became a lawyer today, and I've been covered up with paperwork and meetings leading up to the ceremony.)
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Post Post #1347 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:10 pm

Post by UberNinja »

You're either a fucking retard or you're scum with mastin.
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Post Post #1348 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:32 pm

Post by Kimor »

In post 1347, UberNinja wrote:I'm scum with Axxle.


Fixed. If you think Mastin is scum, you'd be voting for Axxle. Therefore, there is a discrepancy in your motivation. That generally indicates scum.
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Post Post #1349 (ISO) » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:48 pm

Post by CooLDoG »

@axxle, why didn't you claim at the start of the day?
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