Mini 1406: Sherlock Mafia (Game Over)

[Herodotus]

It's not my only reason, but I do consider it very scummy that he read an accusation into posts that contained no traces of one.

[Feysal]

I'm here, somewhat. I'm even caught up on recent posts, but I don't feel particularly in touch with the game, and need to refresh my memory and look farther back. I do remember feeling inclined to vote d3x, but will check his meta in more detail tomorrow before doing so. Now, sleep.

[d3x]

Well that Wagon developed quickly...

Going back for the moment.

D3x: Care to try again, seeing as how I say in the same post you link that he has been scummy. Not the scummiest, not the best lynch, but a valid one, especially on Day 1.

p218 - You pretty clearly infer that you have a Town read on Ludi.
p342 - You state your read on CES is null.
p421 - You don't find CES obvScummy, but he isn't a bad Lynch.

You have fought against the Replacement being alignment indicative and 2/3 of your posts are Null to Townish sounding on him, then when the Lynchis secured he's suddenly the next best option.

What I want to be public information is whether this is an AITP game, in which the town needs one particular person to survive, or not.

Again, I don't see how this is even a legit Townquestion.

most of it was justifying a shitty wagon. We felt he was town

This speaks directly to my earlier points.

Re: my 'meta' - My overall posting/presence/attention to detail has actually decreased sitewide after the end of that game. You can check any of them {linked in my wiki}. As I've stated, there was some RL issues that I've had to deal with recently.

[Kthxbye]

Dex: thoughts on Rob saying GB is town.

[d3x]

I think I see what he's saying, but I'm not sold.

[Herodotus]

What I want to be public information is whether this is an AITP game, in which the town needs one particular person to survive, or not.

Again, I don't see how this is even a legit Townquestion.

I don't see how it's a legit Scumquestion, though. I assume that the scum already know the answer. Maybe everyone knows it; but it's not public.

[Herodotus]

D3x: Care to try again, seeing as how I say in the same post you link that he has been scummy. Not the scummiest, not the best lynch, but a valid one, especially on Day 1.

p218 - You pretty clearly infer that you have a Town read on Ludi.
p342 - You state your read on CES is null.
p421 - You don't find CES obvScummy, but he isn't a bad Lynch.

You have fought against the Replacement being alignment indicative and 2/3 of your posts are Null to Townish sounding on him, then when the Lynchis secured he's suddenly the next best option.

The problem here is that if Gummy is scum, while you and Cogito (the two competing wagons) were both town, I don't see Gummy's motive to reposition himself like that.

[Herodotus]

@d3x: You presumably know kthxbye best from personal experience. Have you been trying to read them since your first comment on them?

I just did ISO's of several players, and see no reason to believe he's town.

UNVOTE: d3x

VOTE: kthxbye

Dex: thoughts on Rob saying GB is town.

It seems to me that if Rob has good reasons for not explaining what he said, then asking other players to comment is anti-town.

[Rob14]

It seems to me that if Rob has good reasons for not explaining what he said, then asking other players to comment is anti-town.

That's what I was just thinking. He seems far, far too interested in dragging out the reasoning for my read, which is entirely anti-town. He's talked about it over and over again in several posts since then and attempted to engage me and d3x in conversation regarding where the town-tell could have been.

Unvote
Vote kthxbye

[GummyBear]

Fuckety fuck really? I have this great scumread on somebody, and then you go and make a post like this one.

Ffffffffff like this:

I also believe that I'm starting to do the same things I'm accusing GB of doing. This means what GB is doing isn't necessarily from a scum mind set if I find myself doing them as well.

just feels so town it hurts.

uuuugggghhhhhh

But past behavior so scummy

god dammit

alofnhapofjapsfojaspfoj

UNVOTE: for now, at least.

-q

[Rob14]

^ Now

there's

a town post I can comment on. Why would he concede to that when the wagon is just picking up? Unless they're scum together, then I don't see any scum motivation for doing that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 2.3

d3x (3)

– DeasVail, Jabberwock, BBmolla

kthxbye (2)

– Herodotus, Rob13

Herodotus (2)

– d3x, Sottyrulez

Not Voting (3)

- Feysal, kthxbye, Gummybear

Deadline: Saturday January 26 @ 11:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2013-01-26 23:00:00)

[d3x]

Kthx is actually one of my stronger TownReads, largely because of things like this info fishing. If he wasn't doing that, I'd be really suspicious of him.

[Jabberwock]

This head (Empire) will be V/LA until Saturday due to a family emergency that just came up. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[sottyrulez]

Still can't see this towntell that Gummybear was supposed to have dropped, but Rob is claiming he can't explain it... so whatever.

kthx wagon is an easy and terrible wagon, Hero's support of it is so scummy, can we lynch him now please?

[DeasVail]

Herod, what do you think of d3x compared to kthx?

[Herodotus]

@sottyrulez: There was one vote on kthxbye when I voted him, your comment is nothing less than absurd.

@DeasVail: At this moment, I am more suspicious of kthxbye. When reading d3x, I keep flipping between a mild scum and a mild town read. Most people in the game have at some point given me a reason to think they are town, even if they have also triggered my scumdar at other times. kthxbye hasn't.

To put it another way, I could put together some argument to convince myself that almost every person is town, but I'm struggling to make that argument for kthxbye.

[Kthxbye]

Hero, point out the posts for everyone that you think peg me as being scum. So far all I see is "people are suspicious of kthx, I am too" from you. What are your EXACT reasons for thinking I'm scum? On the flip side, what posts do you use to convince yourself that Feysal and DV are town? I'm assuming you can put together an argument based on more than 'gut'.

[Herodotus]

Noting that sottyrulez and kthxbye both seem to be reacting as if my kthxbye vote followed suspicion or votes from large numbers of players. In fact, the only person who showed any suspicion toward him before my vote was gummybear, and kthxbye earlier complained about being called town too much.

My reasons are mostly POE.
There was post 503 that I quoted.
I pointed out the strangeness of your reaction to Gummy at the beginning of the day:

@kthxbye: When you posted a scumlist, you didn't mention Gummy. Since then you've called them lurkers, but they were lurking from the beginning.

And to be fair, some OMGUS.

Since you asked, towntells from DV:
First was early - page 4-5 - If DV was scum, I don't think he would have declared his intent to abandon the wagon on me so soon after d3x placed his vote, as he was giving up on a potential mislynch. IIRC, the Magister wagon that he joined didn't seem any more promising at the time, though I might recall incorrectly.
I also get a very town vibe from post 341. I don't know his reasons for saying that, or what he thought Feysal had to say, but DV's post was almost certainly written by someone who felt the need neither to learn Feysal's information, nor to justify his opinion that whatever Feysal had to say wasn't worth discussing. I think scum would have been curious about what Feysal (assuming Feysal is town) was thinking, and even if they weren't, they would have felt obligated to explain a reason why they didn't want Feysal to elaborate.

As for Feysal, my townread is almost entirely from page 14. A scum could make the same posts, but I wouldn't expect it. And it is IIoA, but I've been assuming we'll get some of the A soon. (Feysal...?)

[Rob14]

@Mod - Please prod BBmolla and Feysal

We need to hear more from both of them.

[sottyrulez]

Noting that sottyrulez and kthxbye both seem to be reacting as if my kthxbye vote followed suspicion or votes from large numbers of players. In fact, the only person who showed any suspicion toward him before my vote was gummybear, and kthxbye earlier complained about being called town too much.

We didn't actually say that?

Your slip on to him for little to no reason was extremely poor and this:

I just did ISO's of several players, and see no reason to believe he's town.

Sounds extremely contrived. Can you go into more detail about your POE?

~Sotty

[GummyBear]

Herowagon=badwagon.

Will try to read some ISOs today and see if I can regain my a reading on my scumpass. (scum compass? anyone? ok)

-q

[sottyrulez]

Noting that sottyrulez and kthxbye both seem to be reacting as if my kthxbye vote followed suspicion or votes from large numbers of players. In fact, the only person who showed any suspicion toward him before my vote was gummybear, and kthxbye earlier complained about being called town too much.

Speaking of that...

Feysal, if you think that's a town tell, then I'm skeptical about there being something that we need to discuss. If it has something to do with flavour confirming me as town, we're better off leaving the scum in the dark.

UNVOTE: Feysal

VOTE: kthxbye
There, now the scum won't kill you.

Under that theory a scum can get frustrated, throw up their hands and quit and you're supposed to go... walp, that's null then.

No, because it doesn't change the things that made them scummy prior to their replacing out.
Replacing out will never help scum win, so it's never helpful to the scum who replaces out. But, I might have been overly pedantic/dogmatic. People aren't always rational. I still dislike people making that accusation but I don't feel that discussing it further will lead to anything positive.

Preview:

Consider me to be "not voting". The kthxbye vote is a joke, I don't have any read on that player.

Yeah, but now it's a serious point. I guess it is when you need to pad a case.

In case there is VCA later:
UNVOTE:

I'm planning to put some thought into Cogito, because I'm finding him personally suspicious - aside from the arguments against Magister Ludi - for a specific reason that I'll share after I've had some time to examine him, confirm that my reason is valid, etc. as needed.

Trying to evade VCA analysis is self preservation motivated.

My reasons are mostly POE.

It's hard to not raise an eyebrow when you have a pre-emptive excuse for having weak points and then write an argument like your points are strong and persuasive. It's certainly hard to look at you doing something like this and believe you're genuinely scumhunting.

[sottyrulez]

Herowagon=badwagon.

Will try to read some ISOs today and see if I can regain my a reading on my scumpass. (scum compass? anyone? ok)

-q

That's not how this works. If you're opposed to the wagon and you're trying to stop people from supporting his lynch, you have to explain why it's a bad wagon.

[Herodotus]

@sottyrulez, in chronological order:
I didn't say you said that, but your words "easy and terrible wagon" do suggest that you "seem to be reacting as if my kthxbye vote followed suspicion or votes from large numbers of players."

Can you go into more detail about your POE?

I could post some of the towntells I've found about each player, but no, I couldn't post everything that was going through my mind at the time that I did my reading.

When I voted kthxbye on day 1, it was a joke and not because I thought he was scum. This was clear from what you quoted and bolded. There isn't any direct connection to my current vote on him, which is not a joke. I doubt anyone understands what you're trying to say about that. If the word "pad" applies to anything, it's your post 522, which takes big irrelevant quotes without trying to apply them. (Is it your intention to draw the votes from your scumbuddy kthxbye onto yourself? Then he's a scum PR, while you're a goon. Thanks for letting us know.)

I wrote all of my reasons. In any argument, there will be some stronger and some weaker reasons to believe in an idea. OMGUS is weak. The fishing point about 503 is strong. The inconsistency about Gummy is moderate. POE depends on whether one is right about the other players.