Personal Attacks

RangeroftheNorth · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:13 am

I've noticed that a lot of times defenses essentially just become personal attacks against the capabilities and intelligence of tha accusers. I think that this is bad for the game, and bad for the players.

The game depends on reasoning. By presenting or logic, we open ourselves up for attacks about our reasoning and our thinking style. This leaves us particularly vulnerable. Instead of attacking players attack their arguments.

Attcking players personally discourages them from playing. I know that if I had been insulted in a newbie game the way I've seen other people be insulted in bigger games, I probably would never have played here again. Attacking players personally rarely helps the person who does it. A personal attack actually often hurts the credibility of the person who is doing it.

I say this needs to stop. I'm not sure how to stop it, but this might help. Any ideas?

zu_Faul · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:19 am

Just lynch the person who is too offensive... but often this isn't possible, because there are two people insulting each other. I don't know where it came from, but I could swear it wasn't there 2 months ago (but I could be wrong because of my non-experience).

Mr. Flay · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:33 am

Perhaps adding some wiki pages on basic logical fallacies would be good for the game (ad homenim, etc).

I think the game lends itself to a certain degree of attacking the player as well as the 'role', because frequently you don't know as much about the role as you do the player. Therefore claiming metagame strategies based on who the player is can be successful, whichever side you're actually on.

If that makes sense.

ISO · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:44 am

No, it doesn't, because you smell funny.

NanookTheWolf · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:50 am

zu_Faul wrote:Just lynch the person who is too offensive... but often this isn't possible, because there are two people insulting each other. I don't know where it came from, but I could swear it wasn't there 2 months ago (but I could be wrong because of my non-experience).

I guess you never met Zoneace

rajrhcpfreak · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:53 am

personal attacks....hummm....

i may attack someone but i have nothing aginst them....

it maybe its easier to attack someone then lynching though pure logic. anything to help your side win.

attacks ive seen alot lately is attacking peoples style of play.
lurker vs spammers
i think thats why its been more common.

ive seen it both ways... "kill the spammer".... and of course my fav "lurker hunt"

some of my fav people are lurkers, <3 roland and coron and darq

StevieT92 · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:57 am

Raj you only love Darq 'cause she's a chick

rajrhcpfreak · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:28 pm

sooo...

but waht about coron and roland?

Coron · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:15 pm

I only lurk when I don't have time!

StevieT92 · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:16 pm

Both chicks obv obv obv obv obv obv obv obv

rajrhcpfreak · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:21 pm

Coron wrote:I only lurk when I don't have time!

your a busy man...

Stewie · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:29 pm

I think I am very handsome.

What does this have to do with this thread? Simple: if someone thinks someone as beautiful as I, is scum, then I have the right -no: the duty- to get into an argument with them.

Also, it's part of the game. People get frustrated -both town and scum- and get into arguments. It doesn't really mean that I think ********** is an idiot, but simply that I want him lynched in the game because he's scummy, and I am frustrated because nobody else can see that.

Also, I am very handsome.

inHimshallibe · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:41 pm

Ten characters in the name. Whew, at least it isn't me.

StevieT92 · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:46 pm

BABYJESUS? But that is only nine?

rajrhcpfreak · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:00 pm

at least it wasnt me!!!

Thok · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:04 pm

StevieT92 wrote:BABYJESUS? But that is only nine?

I don't get attacks on BJ/IS/others for playstyle. There's something to be said for a playstyle that tries to reveal as little information as possible day 1 while trying to gain info via bandwagons. It is incredibly difficult to judge whether such a role is scum/protown, and they tend to live for a while.

My general feeling about personal attacks is that if you are wasting energy fighting, then you aren't paying attention to the game. If I'm scum, I want townies to be at each other's throat-it makes my work much easier.

(To be fair, I've been responsible for some fights before, and I'm not necessarily proud of it).

Yosarian2 · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:14 pm

There's also a lot of gray area. I've even seen someone DEFEND someone else with a personal attack before, as in "Oh, don't read too much into that, player X always acts like and idiot on day 1."

(shrug) I tend to think that all's fair in love, war, and mafia, although I'm not sure about love or war.

So in the rare occasion where a personal attack is actually the stratigically correct move, hey, go for it. However, 75% of the time, personal attacks tend to just annoy everyone and tends to have them just ignore any valid points you may actually have; mostly, the only time they're actually useful is when someone is trying to troll someone else into making a mistake. As a general suggestion, if you're really mad and frustrated at someone, don't type up a long, angry, insulting post, because you're probably playing right into someone's hands; wait a few hours and cool off first. Usually, you'll get lynched less if you don't post overly emotionally.

bigbenwd · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:21 pm

NanookTheWolf wrote:
zu_Faul wrote:Just lynch the person who is too offensive... but often this isn't possible, because there are two people insulting each other. I don't know where it came from, but I could swear it wasn't there 2 months ago (but I could be wrong because of my non-experience).
I guess you never met Zoneace

oh man nanook, don't get me started...

BabyJesus · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:28 pm

StevieT92 wrote:BABYJESUS? But that is only nine?

fucko

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:25 pm

Somebody's taking the game a little too seriously.

Mr. Flay · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:44 pm

BabyJesus wrote:
StevieT92 wrote:BABYJESUS? But that is only nine?
fucko

Sounds like somebody needs their diaper changed...[/ad hominem]

Anyway, I did what I could with Logical Fallacies for tonight... have at it!

Einsteinmonkey · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:11 pm

Did I miss something? I've never seen this happen in Mafia. Am I making a grave play mistake? Should I be calling BabyJesus a fucktard?

VisMaior · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:12 pm

PeaceBringer · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:19 pm

Einsteinmonkey wrote:Did I miss something? I've never seen this happen in Mafia. Am I making a grave play mistake? Should I be calling BabyJesus a fucktard?

that could be entertaining but if BJ is scum or a killer, it won't end well.

Einsteinmonkey · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:46 pm

PeaceBringer wrote:
Einsteinmonkey wrote:Did I miss something? I've never seen this happen in Mafia. Am I making a grave play mistake? Should I be calling BabyJesus a fucktard?
that could be entertaining but if BJ is scum or a killer, it won't end well.

Hmmm...if you insult BJ and die during the night, lynch BJ the next day! (Or you could lynch him Day 1 anyways

)