Kingmaker

BrianMcQueso · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:59 pm

I want to run a Kingmaker game, but I'm not sure where it falls. Is this a Mini Regular, Mini Themed, Free Market, or Mish-Mash style idea?

http://www.princeton.edu/~mafia/vgp15.htm

(The Kingmaker theory was explained to me in an early Mafia game I played in where there was a confirmed innocent, townie, and mafia left in the endgame. The cop had essentially performed the role of Kingmaker when confirming one person innocent, allowing that person to determine the final lynch. The idea's been stuck in the back of my head ever since.)

Also, has this been done before on MS, or somewhere over on the GL? I'd like to take a look at the old games for curiosity/inspiration's sake.

Narninian · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:29 pm

ooooo!

Mr Stoofer · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:38 pm

Interesting.

I'd suggest the 3rd option for when the Kingmaker dies: no more Kings/Queens; the town reverts to vanilla mob rule. I always feel that where an intricate new role is introduced, everything else should be as simple as possible, at least the first few times it is used.

Cadmium · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:59 pm

I actually wanted to use a similar concept in Tokugawa mafia, but by the time that will run, you could probably mod several of these.

Me likey

!

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:12 am

i like having a ranking system among the civilians for becoming kingmaker. if we revert to democracy, it becomes more like Oval Office mafia, imo.

BrianMcQueso · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:46 pm

Me wrote:Is this a Mini Regular, Mini Themed, Free Market, or Mish-Mash style idea?

^^This is my biggest concern with starting up a Kingmaker game.

petroleumjelly · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:02 pm

Wow, that can have some bad consequences: if Scum is chosen to be King/Queen, they can simply lynch a claimed cop or doc on the spot, then get their nightkilling in. I agree with Mr. Flay that if the Kingmaker dies, just let the game fall back into mob majority. Also, for the purpose of the game, it would probably be easiest to leave out roleblockers (as you can't learn anything from the game if the Kingmaker is continuously role-blocked) or copiers (since you won't want two kings/queens).

Perhaps you could also set a time limit on how long the King/Queen has to wait in order to lynch somebody though: just skimming through SpeedyKQ's "Worst Idea" mafia made me shudder with a two minute day and two minute twilight; the same could happen with a Speedy King/Queen. Pun fully intented.

Maybe 24 hours or something. Other than that, I would interested to see how a game like that would turn out.

BrianMcQueso · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:17 pm

Petroleum Jelly wrote:Wow, that can have some bad consequences: if Scum is chosen to be King/Queen, they can simply lynch a claimed cop or doc on the spot, then get their nightkilling in. I agree with Mr. Flay that if the Kingmaker dies, just let the game fall back into mob majority. Also, for the purpose of the game, it would probably be easiest to leave out roleblockers (as you can't learn anything from the game if the Kingmaker is continuously role-blocked) or copiers (since you won't want two kings/queens).

If a King immediately lynches the claimed cop or doctor, it's like sticking a giant "Lynch Me" sign on their butt for the next day. I doubt scum would reveal themselves so easily. That's what nightkills are for!

petroleumjelly · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:30 pm

Okay, it's true that scum won't out themselves that easily, but it seems like a good trade to me from the scum point of view to immediately lynch a claimed cop who could easily be protected by a Doc during the night. Yes, it's a sacrifice, but the fact that the Kingmaker will still have to choose a new King/Queen for the next day adds a twist, in that they may choose

another

scum who may or may not lynch their partner.

Even if a townie is picked as King/Queen the next day, there will clearly be no vote to manipulate by the scum, so they could heartily suggest killing off their scum partner, and no information would really be gained the next day anyhow. And actually, I guess that is one interesting thing to say: scum could be harder to catch because there will really be no voting to manipulate in the first place, unless you choose to give them vote counts. Hrm.

BrianMcQueso · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:34 am

petroleum jelly wrote:unless you choose to give them vote counts.

I do. The town doesn't have to sit idly by while someone makes their decisions for them; part of the fun is trying to convince the King to see things your way. It shifts the discussion's focus from trying to persuade the entire town to trying to persuade one person. It adds a different dynamic; someone who tried to get you lynched yesterday might be begging for your mercy the next.

PJ, cont. wrote:Yes, it's a sacrifice, but the fact that the Kingmaker will still have to choose a new King/Queen for the next day adds a twist, in that they may choose another scum who may or may not lynch their partner.

Well, if I quickly lynch our claimed cop, and my successor doesn't lynch me, then how many scum are we going to reveal to the town before the Kingmaker finally crowns a pro-town King who starts to clean up the mess? The town outnumbers the Mafia, of course, and the Mafia would only want to make one-for-one trades under dire circumstances.

Mr. Flay · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:59 am

I'd be concerned about concentrating all the decision power in one person's hands. Yes, everyone else SHOULD be having input on how the Monarch decides, but we've seen in other games that reducing the power of the vote leads to lowered participation, many times. That's my biggest concern. I'd say run it in Mish-Mash or chat first, before inflicting it on the regular game forums.

P.S. petroleumjelly, that wasn't me, it was Mr Stoofer. We look alike, I know; it's the hair.