Out of curiousity, PM rule...

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Out of curiousity, PM rule...

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:07 pm

Post by Nemesis »

Is there a reason why people arn't allowed to talk via IMs unless their character has the ability to do so? If not has a game ever been created in which everyone could do that? (Maybe a day or night only or a limit or something.) With the rule no one could talk about their IMs?

It'd be an interesting game I think... I could see someone getting duped into luring out the scum and getting lynched and losing the game or something... It'd be interesting so I was just wondering whether there was a good reason for it or if it was solely because of the mason role...

Edit:

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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:11 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

See Monastery Mafia 2 at the GL.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:00 am

Post by Phoebus »

IIRC Full Comm Mafia here was broken by the cop telling his innocents that he knew they were innocent and forming a pseudo mason group?
Or so I've heard.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:54 am

Post by Kenji »

Any chance of a link to Full Comm Mafia?

Monestry mafia 2 makes for interesting if short reading.....
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:47 am

Post by Phoebus »

If at all it's still around, someone might have to dig it out of archives.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:28 pm

Post by PolarBoy »

There are two really strong non-game-design reasons for not allowing talk outside the thread during the day. The first is tradition. Mafia was originally played in face to face settings, where comunicating without the group knowing was more or less impossible, as everyone stays in the same room (often sitting or standing in a circle). The second is that it makes the game much better spectator sport as anyone reading the thread can get the basic gist of what's going on.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:38 pm

Post by Fritzler »

PolarBoy wrote:There are two really strong non-game-design reasons for not allowing talk outside the thread during the day. The first is tradition. Mafia was originally played in face to face settings, where comunicating without the group knowing was more or less impossible, as everyone stays in the same room (often sitting or standing in a circle).
True, but when i play as cop, I almost always investegate someone next to me, because it is easy to whisper to them about the game, if i can confirm then innocent and they can take bullets once i find a guilty, or just a pusedo masonry.
PolarBoy wrote:The second is that it makes the game much better spectator sport as anyone reading the thread can get the basic gist of what's going on.
Yea, i agree here. If anyone had to replace half way through one of these games, it would be hell.

Also look at global mafia in twsogmm for a game coming up that will allow it.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:41 pm

Post by Fritzler »

Kenji wrote:Any chance of a link to Full Comm Mafia?

Monestry mafia 2 makes for interesting if short reading.....
I can give you a word document to make it really really long reading.
Phoebus wrote:IIRC Full Comm Mafia here was broken by the cop telling his innocents that he knew they were innocent and forming a pseudo mason group?
Or so I've heard.
Yea, we do that sort of thing in chat often, and there is a potential for that breaking the game. However, do you have any idea what sort of hell breaks lose if there's a godfather there that claims townie and finds out everyone else's role?
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:24 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

There are lots of ways to stop those types of games from breaking, actually.

As Fritz suggested, Godfather roles are one way to make things better more difficult for Town (and "Mason" groups).

Also, there is nothing to stop Scum from PMing somebody, pretending they are a Cop, and saying that they can "verify" so-and-so's goodness. It's just a matter of whether or not they get caught.

If you throw in a few neutral characters (who live only they survive) you can have some interesting back-stabbing (making alliances with both good and evil).

However (and I have mentioned this in another thread) games were "background" PM's are allowed make for a boring read, since all the action and betrayals are going on behind the scenes. It makes it less of a "scum-hunt" like the way the Mafia games are played here, and more of a "political process" on how well you can keep track of what you tell different players via PM.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:43 pm

Post by AndrewS »

Checkmate would have been nuts had it had OOT communication.

What am I saying, Checkmate was nuts anyway.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:33 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Check Gameshow Mafia.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:18 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Mini 189 was going to be full communication. It was quite an interesting set-up overall, but died when the Mod abandonded the site.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:43 am

Post by mith »

IIRC Full Comm Mafia here was broken by the cop telling his innocents that he knew they were innocent and forming a pseudo mason group?
Or so I've heard.
That was me, and it's roughly correct, though I would add that there was a Godfather and other cops of different sanities, and I don't think the setup itself was necessarily broken. Basically I came out day 1 (not as the cop, but as a random player that the cop was feeding info to; had a whole explanation for it, though I don't think more than a couple of players actually bought it) and fingered IS; I recognized that I might not be sane, but that game happened to take place at a time when I was getting a pretty solid read on IS most games, and after a few posts I was convinced that he actually was scum. So once I got him lynched, and then found an innocent the next night, I was confident I was sane. The mason group didn't play a huge role in the game, as I had protection and survived the game, but they were there as a backup in case the scum did kill the doc and then me.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:01 am

Post by mith »

Actually, checking the crash files, there was one night I didn't have protection... and then the next night, I had two. If anything was broken, it was the two doctors. :)

There was also the bit where the Vig contacted me (I hadn't checked him) and decided to target the Godfather (who didn't die, but we then lynched him the next day because of it).
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:07 am

Post by mith »

Btw, the archive is still available here:

http://shared.nitro.secsrv.net/~mith/archive/

It'll get moved over someday.

(Crash files here: http://www.mafiascum.net/crash%20files/ ... s%20Mafia/)
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:18 am

Post by ralphmerridew »

See also Fantasy Mafia on GL, where the town managed to lynch straight scum.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:29 am

Post by PolarBoy »

Fritzler wrote:True, but when i play as cop, I almost always investegate someone next to me, because it is easy to whisper to them about the game, if i can confirm then innocent and they can take bullets once i find a guilty, or just a pusedo masonry.
...I don't think I'd allow that if I was playing with you. Scum could easily fake it (though the advantage gained would probably be rather small, making this less risky), and aren't you essentially outing yourself to the mafia? Either that or you are the very essence of discretion, to whisper to another player in front of others in a game about suspicion and paranoia and still not be noticed.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:30 am

Post by PolarBoy »

...or you have dumb friends, in which case any strategic ideas you've applied should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:23 am

Post by Fritzler »

PolarBoy wrote:
Fritzler wrote:True, but when i play as cop, I almost always investegate someone next to me, because it is easy to whisper to them about the game, if i can confirm then innocent and they can take bullets once i find a guilty, or just a pusedo masonry.
...I don't think I'd allow that if I was playing with you. Scum could easily fake it (though the advantage gained would probably be rather small, making this less risky), and aren't you essentially outing yourself to the mafia? Either that or you are the very essence of discretion, to whisper to another player in front of others in a game about suspicion and paranoia and still not be noticed.
Do you have no off-topic convos ever going when you play mafia in real life? When we play with 15+ players I'm always macking on girl I'm next to, or a friend is telling dead babie jokes with someone amid all the discussion. People are always having private convos with the people next to them. I'm not outing myself to the mafia, because you investegate the person next to you, and make sure theyre innocent.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:46 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

I tend to think that games with privite communication would tend to die...people would not talk very much in the thread, other people who decide not to PM someone would end up doing nothing at all and going inactive. Limited communication in some situations can work, letting the scum or the masons talk at day works fine, but too much day communication can make the game grind to a halt.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:54 am

Post by Phoebus »

Part of that would depend on player personality. It could lead to metagaming.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:09 pm

Post by PolarBoy »

Fritzler wrote:Do you have no off-topic convos ever going when you play mafia in real life?
Too be honest I haven't played a whole lot face to face (though in very different groups of people every time), but I've never seen anyone get off topic for any reason. And, like I said "suspicion and paranoia". I wouldn't really trust people to only have non-game-related conversations seperate from the game.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:17 pm

Post by Fritzler »

PolarBoy wrote:
Fritzler wrote:Do you have no off-topic convos ever going when you play mafia in real life?
Too be honest I haven't played a whole lot face to face (though in very different groups of people every time), but I've never seen anyone get off topic for any reason. And, like I said "suspicion and paranoia". I wouldn't really trust people to only have non-game-related conversations seperate from the game.
Well its a lot people that know each other through things other than mafia, so there will be a lot of off-topic convos in my experience, up to and including finding away to pretend to cheat on your boy friend so he will break up with you.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:35 pm

Post by Cadmium »

mith wrote:There was also the bit where the Vig contacted me (I hadn't checked him) and decided to target the Godfather (who didn't die, but we then lynched him the next day because of it).
Bah!

They just wouldn't buy my self-protecting doc claim ;).
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:08 pm

Post by mith »

It didn't help you that there were two doctors who weren't self-protecting. :P

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