Using the First Post as a Mod

[mathcam]

If you're currently unaware, the JEEP hath coded a feature that allows players to see the front post of the thread on every page, and we now have the ability/responsibility as mods to use this new tool to help the flow of the game.

Important questions

:
1) What new things would players like to see in the front post?
2) What sort of things should we take out of the front post?
3) How do we take into account that not all the players will have this option turned on?

Some thoughts on possible answers:
1) The obvious answer to me is vote counts. Some care is needed, though, since these vote counts will obviously not be up-to-date...only as accurate as the last time they were tallied. This is true, of course, as vote counts as they stand currently, but it's currently much clearer when exactly the vote count is supposed to be accurate...wherever it occurs in the thread. One solution would be to post vote counts in the first post along with the post number through which they are accurate. A second idea is to have past end-of-day vote counts from previous days, so that players don't have to go foraging for them (but see #2).

2) In short, since the players have to see this every time they open a page, the opening post should be made as compact as possible, only including information that a player might want to have at their disposal when composing a post. Just thinking about my newbie games, there's no reason for them to have to see the full role descriptions every post. Seeing the 1- or 2- line game intro probably isn't hurting anyone, but I've seen some games have several paragraphs worth of flavor text. Maybe all of that should be moved to the second post.

3) Unless we make it mandatory for this feature to be turned on, this is a little problematic. It would be really annoying for these people if mods

only

posted vote counts in the front post, since they'd have to change pages any time they wanted to see a vote count. The options for a mod seem to be then, a) Post vote counts both as usual and in the opening post, b) Tell players that vote counts will only be in the opening post, and than they can either enable the option or go back to page 1 every time.

Other thoughts?

Cam

[VisMaior]

I t think its best for seeing who is alive and who is dead. Votecounts is close second.

[Thok]

A player lists would also be useful, especially if the mod was curteous enough to utilize the "userposts=" to allow a person to find all posts by a player in that thread.

For those not sure what I mean by that, as an example

Mathcam (Only Mathcam's posts in this thread)
Vismaior (Only Vismaior's posts in this thread)

Similarly, links to important events (beginning and ends of days) would also be useful.

[Norinel]

I've actually been formatting most of my games to support this ever since the crash in case the feature would return. If I were on more often, I'd do a front post votecount, but since a whole lot can change in 24 hours, it'd probably go out of data pretty quickly.

But even just alive/dead lists and deathscene links can get pretty crowded, especially when you're considering something like Dichotomafia.

[Mr Stoofer]

Keeping an up to date vote count in the first post has definite merit, but I would be sad if it meant thatv there was no historical record of vote counts throughout the thread. At present, if the Mod is diligent, "View All Posts" by the Mod allows you to get a feel for the patterns in the game. That would be lost if the mod only put vote counts in the front posts.

[mith]

As a compromise, the Mod could just have a link in the first post to the most recent VC post.

[rajrhcpfreak]

A second idea is to have past end-of-day vote counts from previous days, so that players don't have to go foraging for them (but see #2).

another thing, which ive seen often. is to link the lynch scene on the first post. then when someone wants to look at an end-of-the-day vote couthey just click the link of the day.

[Yosarian2]

Keeping an up to date vote count in the first post has definite merit, but I would be sad if it meant thatv there was no historical record of vote counts throughout the thread. At present, if the Mod is diligent, "View All Posts" by the Mod allows you to get a feel for the patterns in the game. That would be lost if the mod only put vote counts in the front posts.

Another advantage of having the vote count in the game is that it lets you see how recent it is. That is, you can go back, see that the last vote count was a page and a half ago, and then note the votes that have happened since the last vote-count.

(shrug) A vote on the front page seems like it would be a lot less useful then having a vote-count inside the game. Having both might be ok, but dosn't really seem needed to me.

[HezLucky]

I think the worst thing is having who is alive and who is dead in the first post

First post should consist of rules and intro only.

Second post should be who is alive and who is dead and nothing else.

Reason?

I hate wanting to read over a game for excitement and then realizing I read the results before it started...

I want to read the opening flavour without accidentally reading the result.

[Yosarian2]

I don't know...when playing the game, I find the first post list of who is alive and who is dead incredibly useful, whenver I want to make a list of who is playing, figure out who is lurking, narrow down stuff to figure out who is scum, and so on.

[Stewie]

I think the worst thing is having who is alive and who is dead in the first post

First post should consist of rules and intro only.

Second post should be who is alive and who is dead and nothing else.

Reason?

I hate wanting to read over a game for excitement and then realizing I read the results before it started...

I want to read the opening flavour without accidentally reading the result.

However, that makes the new feature useless. The hole point of being able to see the first post on every page is displaying important information on it. If it becomes a problem, the two posts can be switched around at the end.

To answer the inital questions, the basic information should be the following:

-vote count
-dead/alive list

Any other information should be displayed as links. For example, for vote counts, you could link to the last post which was considered in the vote count, or the latest vote count if you decide not to display the vote count on the first page. If you want to link to the end of the day, you create the link on the "xxxxxx - lynched day one" making "day one" your link.

The vote count should list every player with votes on them, the number of votes they have, and the players voting for them. It should also display a list of people not voting.

The dead part of the dead alive list should display when they died, how they died, and a one word of two word description of their role).

[rajrhcpfreak]

I think the worst thing is having who is alive and who is dead in the first post

First post should consist of rules and intro only.

Second post should be who is alive and who is dead and nothing else.

Reason?

I hate wanting to read over a game for excitement and then realizing I read the results before it started...

I want to read the opening flavour without accidentally reading the result.

dont ever read my games then, thats waht my first post would always consist of.

and i wouldnt like the rules up there because most games have the same rules. and you only read the rules once, its not somthing you need to look at at every page.

[petroleumjelly]

While a game is running, I find it very helpful to have a dead/alive/roles list on the first page. I wouldn't even trust a vote-count on the first post personally, because I would always be afraid that it is out of date. Although I guess that's just me.

I do agree that flavor text should be in the second post for convenience.

And to make reading over games more exciting (without ruining everything with the opening post, as Hez is worried about), after a game is finished, why don't Mods just use that text where you can't read it unless you highlight it with your mouse (invisitext, I think it's called)? That way the information is still there, but you don't see it unless you want to see it.

Links to day beginnings would be good as well, sometimes I have to search around for a while before I can find what I am looking for.

***On that subject, is there way a quick way to find sandwiched pages? For example, if I want to specifically read Page 26 of a 54 page game, I have to continuously press "back" or "forward" rather than being able to go straight there. Should there be an option where you type in the page number and get taken there immediately? Or is there already one?

[Tamuz]

Hez, I do the same as you, but I just hit the end button first and slowly creep up...

[rajrhcpfreak]

petro, sry but there isnt.

weve been debating how we can fix that somehow.

[mathcam]

petro, sry but there isnt.

weve been debating how we can fix that somehow.

Nope, it's quite possible, but it takes more work (but only a little!) than what you'd like.

For example,

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=500

is the link for the 21st page of DP13, starting with the 500th post. Just change the 500 to get a different page. (Note there are 25 posts per page, and just do the math to get a specific page number)

Cam

[rajrhcpfreak]

but THAT involves math.

we want an easy button.

[Cadmium]

I don't really care whether or not the OP should contain a vote count, all I want is vote counts throughout the game to continue. If there will be just the one recent vote count in the OP, I will need at least twice the time I need now to properly follow the game. A vote count is something that belongs to a specific point in the game. Even if the most recent vote count will be included in the OP, you can't directly see at what point in the game that tally applies (links/post numbers might help, but you can't see directly). There could have been others who voted after the mod updated the OP. Plus I want to be able to re-read older vote counts at all times.

So including the most recent vote count in the OP is fine by me (I won't make use of it myself), as long as the normal vote counts occur throughout the game.

[Mr Stoofer]

Agree with everything Cadmium just said.

[VisMaior]

Hm. How about a votepanel, where people can change their votes themselves. That would require some new code, but it would be an automated votecounting system. no more miscounting!

[mith]

We've already got automated vote counting planned. It's just not likely to happen any time soon.

[Mr Stoofer]

Would it provide historical information for analysis?

[VisMaior]

Would it be too hard to do? It does not seem like a lot of work...

[mith]

The way I'm envisioning it (which is not necessarily the way it would be coded), you would be able to click on button for each post which would give the vote count for that day through that post.

VM, I don't think it should be difficult to code in theory (though I wouldn't be doing the coding, so I could be wrong). There are some difficulties to work around though (such as handling roles which affect voting).

[VisMaior]

Hmm, i imagine a single button and dropdown list where people vote instead of simply stating it. It generates then a post with the vote, or something like that.