Chat Logs

VitaminR · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:57 am

In the Bible Verse endgame mith quoted chat logs.

This bothered me slightly. I realise chat logs can be paraphrased quite easily and extensively, but it still seems like the difference between mod-quoting and claiming. The information you give is essentially the same, but it is lent credence by their extensive nature and their format. These are external factors. Should they influence the game?

Also, how about linking a QuickTopic night-talk thread? Is there a distinction between the two or should both be (dis)allowed?

I personally think it'd be best to disallow it. The same information can be conveyed through paraphrasing. Chat logs lend an advantage that is unrelated to the game.

Fritzler · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:07 am

I thought it was fine.

Phoebus · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:09 am

All power to those who bother concocting a chat log to pass it off as authentic.
The more immediate question might be...how often will a situation arise where a person wants to post logs and actually tell the other players that they get to talk to other people?

In my limited experience as mason, we never had anything to talk about.

Just knowledge that the other person was (supposedly) innocent.

Fritzler · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:13 am

right, the deal here is they both wanted to claim cultists

which have a lot mroe to tal about

Phoebus · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:14 am

So when you have lots to talk about, you're generally GENERALLY up to no good, right?

Mr. Flay · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:15 am

I'm against it, I think. It didn't seem to really affect the game they were in, but it's got some sort of odor about it...haven't quite put my finger on it yet.

This post is mostly to get this thread on my list...

Phoebus · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:21 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:31 am

Please, it's not that bloody hard to fake a chatlog.

Cogito Ergo Sum · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:34 am

Faking a chat log can be easy, but would you believe this was faked:
Session Start (AIM - glmith:[LML]): Sun Mar 19 15:18:41 2006
[LML]: Just hammered Fritzler
*** Auto-response sent to [LML]: I am currently away from the computer.
GL mith: hammah!
GL mith: who started this hammer thing anyway?
[LML]: No clue
[LML]: Just know we're chat buddies now
GL mith: yup
GL mith: so what'd fritz tell you?
[LML]: a) He's a moron
[LML]: b) We're a cult.
[LML]: c) We're screwed.
GL mith: he is a moron, yes
GL mith: i assume we can't recruit
[LML]: who knows.
GL mith: if we can, we should be fine. we know the psalm verses can be recruited.
GL mith: so i doubt we can
[LML]: I yelled at him.
[LML]: Yelled at him.
[LML]: He really messed that up.
GL mith: indeed. no one was even thinking cult until he pulled that
GL mith: you think CA is scum?
[LML]: PS: Methinks CA is scum
GL mith: heh
GL mith: it's a very similar claim to what he did in married to the mob
[LML]: yeah.
[LML]: Once bitten, twice shy.
GL mith: hm
GL mith: i can't believe i made such a silly slip
[LML]: when?
GL mith: the tss thing
GL mith: i don't know if mackay picked up on it or not
[LML]: oh yeah.
[LML]: i hope not.
GL mith: it wasn't even because i'd been recruited, i just didn't check
GL mith: hm
GL mith: i mean, we're down to 8 now
[LML]: so... i need to keep ca alive
GL mith: and none of the psalm verse are dead
GL mith: *verses
GL mith: there may not be 4 of us, though
[LML]: there's.. not
[LML]: there's 2 of us.
GL mith: 4 pslam verses
GL mith: psalm
GL mith: bah
GL mith: roadbird, vitaminR, and i all are psalm 107:something
GL mith: there's 4 identical verses
[LML]: okay...
[LML]: hopefully, we can recruit.
GL mith: if we can, we're fine
GL mith: if not... tricky
[LML]: Tricky aint the word.
[LML]: That's why I was trying to make sure that Fritz didn't out you.
[LML]: by the way...
GL mith: yeah, that's why i put the 4th on too
[LML]: I have a diabolical plan.
GL mith: normally there i'd wait for ameliaslay and roadbird
[LML]: Fritz told me who his other friends were...
[LML]: no...
GL mith: hm?
[LML]: that wont work.
[LML]: hmmm
GL mith: ah
GL mith: no, it probably wouldn't
GL mith: they'd just lynch you first to see if you were legit
[LML]: My BS post posrked.
[LML]: worked*
[LML]: That was my worst post ever.
GL mith: which one?
[LML]: I was at such a loss there...
[LML]: 707, I believe
GL mith: there was lots of BS there
[LML]: 709
GL mith: ah, yeah
GL mith: you really were a cop, yeah?
[LML]: (nods)
GL mith: how sure are we you were naive?
[LML]: because I was recruited.
[LML]: but...
GL mith: that doesn't matter
[LML]: I could be wrong
[LML]: So...
[LML]: time for a gambit.
GL mith: if a naive cop can be recruited, so can a sane cop
[LML]: can we agree that CA is 95% scum?
GL mith: yes
[LML]: I'm going to out myself.
[LML]: get the scum.
GL mith: could work
GL mith: there's got to be two of them, right?
[LML]: right.
[LML]: but...
[LML]: It'll be in your hands.
GL mith: *if* you're sane, the other one is ameliaslay
[LML]: I had the same idea.
GL mith: which makes mackay the psalmist possibly, which screws me over
[LML]: except Mackay still looks scummy.
GL mith: thing is, if it's just me, we can't win
GL mith: only draw
[LML]: better than nothing, eh? Fritz took me away from the winning team, it's your turn
GL mith: hehe
GL mith: i don't think there can be a 4th psalm verse
GL mith: there's got to be two scum, yeah?
[LML]: Has to be.
GL mith: and there's got to be a vig or SK or whatever the perisher is
[LML]: 2 scum, 1 SK
GL mith: and we know it's not me, you, roadbird, vitaminR, or tss
GL mith: unless tss is scum
[LML]: TSS is next on my list for likely scum
GL mith: it doesn't fit with the numbers thing, though
GL mith: was ender recruited or not? i forgot to ask
[LML]: we're the ONLY two.
GL mith: i mean before you
GL mith: ender died night 4
[LML]: I never knew.
GL mith: gah. if fritzler did and didn't tell you, i'm going to be even more annoyed
[LML]: nono....
[LML]: It was Fuldu, Vismaior, CVismaior, LML, Mith
GL mith: oh, so he was telling the truth about that
GL mith: ok
GL mith: so enderX was some other type of scum
GL mith: here's a wild and crazy thought
GL mith: enderX was the perisher
GL mith: tss took over for him night 4
GL mith: with ender "suiciding"
[LML]: hmmm...
[LML]: or could we be dealing with two scum groups?
GL mith: perhaps
GL mith: a two person scum group, first one that dies turns up innocent and comes back if the other dies?

[snip]

GL mith: that's quite a bit weaker than a four person, but stronger than an SK

[snip]

GL mith: bah, i can't see any way out of you getting lynched
[LML]: Of course not.
[LML]: Unless, on death, I'm not red.
[LML]:
GL mith:
GL mith: i'm surprised i'm not dead yet
GL mith: after coming out as a mason and then the cop clearing me on top of that
[LML]: Ahh.. naive cop
GL mith: we were doing pretty awful as a town, huh
GL mith: if not for the perisher, we'd have already lost
[LML]: oh yeah.
GL mith: and what was fritz thinking?
GL mith: trying to recruit a possible hider? twice?
[LML]: awful play.
GL mith: *after* so many townies/masons were out, too
[LML]: I told him to claim roleblocker.
[LML]: and with one kill...
[LML]: it would have worked.
[LML]: night 3
[LML]:
GL mith: he shouldn't have claimed anything
GL mith: oh, does he have the role he claimed?
GL mith: or something else?
[LML]: he's a cultist.. he claimed a different verse.
GL mith: did he tell you what verse?
GL mith: guess i'll find out in a minute anyway
[LML]: yeah, hold on.. lemme get my notebook.
GL mith: cadmium's on
GL mith: let's hope this isn't one of those cults where the two of us commit suicide after he dies
[LML]: Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."
[LML]: 1 Corinthians 15:33
GL mith: ah
[LML]: and...
[LML]: he didn't know he was a cult.
[LML]: HOW AWFUL IS THAT?
GL mith: haha
GL mith: wow
GL mith: he came up purple
[LML]: I hate that.... oh no.
[LML]: OH NO
[LML]: OH NO
GL mith: hm?
[LML]: In death, so will I.
[LML]: I need to suicide and take out Amelia and Commodore with me.
GL mith: right, let's talk this through
GL mith: tonight, we get two deaths
GL mith: hopefully not us
GL mith: CA can't kill you
[LML]: I'm going to claim cultist, ability to keep my powers. I'm the only cultist.
[LML]: going to claim Amelia as guilty.
GL mith: no! better
GL mith: wait, no, that won't work
[LML]: why not?
GL mith: fritz claimed he recruited someone else already didn't he
GL mith: no, i mean what i was thinking
GL mith: i was thinking: claim you guys tried to recruit amelia last night
[LML]: I was thinking that too..
GL mith: don't claim you still have powers
[LML]: okay
GL mith: i'm not sure about saying you're the only one
GL mith: maybe wait til asked
GL mith: maybe i'll ask, even
[LML]: I will be asked.
[LML]: sounds good.
[LML]: claiming one and only.
[LML]: by the way...
[LML]: you're going to have to make the correlation that CA must be scum.
GL mith: i can do that
GL mith: i almost mentioned the married thing today
GL mith: it'll be natural coming from me, i helped mod
[LML]:
[LML]: Thanks for that again
GL mith: no prob
[LML]: i'm praying that I can convert now.
[LML]:
GL mith: actually, there is still some small chance we can win
GL mith: we could end up in a prisoner's dilemma situation
[LML]: I'm harmless!
[LML]: I cant kill!
[LML]:
GL mith: exactly
GL mith: this go on about how stupid fritzler was
GL mith: and how you know you can't win
[LML]: and please, don't die.
GL mith: how you'll accept a draw with the town if they let you
[LML]: I played gamn good pro-town anyway.
GL mith: but you'll understand if they lynch you after the scum are gone, you'll still count it as a town win in your heart
[LML]: aww...
[LML]: that's such bull.
[LML]:
GL mith:
[LML]: I wanted to KILL fritzler.
GL mith: thing is, we might get lucky with the night kills
[LML]: i'm an easy lynch.
[LML]: I can see YOU being targeted.
GL mith: well, yes
[LML]: but...
GL mith: but i think the killers will try to find each other
GL mith: and i'm obviously not a killer
[LML]: could the damn mafia target each other about now?
[LML]:
GL mith: actually, i think what we want is for the perisher to die
GL mith: but not either mafia
[LML]: Fritz didnt want to recruit you.. said it was too obvious.
[LML]: I threatened his life.
GL mith: loi
GL mith: he should've recruited me night 2, we'd have won this so easy
[LML]: of course.
[LML]: instead, Vismaior twice?
[LML]: moron.
[LML]:
GL mith: but yeah, if both mafia are alive, the town is *forced* to lynch mafia
GL mith: you probably still die the next night, but maybe the scum get stupid
[LML]: I'm going to die.
[LML]: That's not a question.
[LML]: Now, I'm trying to maximize our ability to do OK here.
GL mith:
GL mith: we need to ask cadmium what happens if it's down to me and 2 innocents
GL mith: right, so both scum are still alive, you come out after them
GL mith: what if one dies?
[LML]: go after the other.
[LML]: Eliminate the scum ASAP
GL mith: even with the perisher still in the mix?
[LML]: not much I can do, eh?
[LML]: still, only 1 NK to deal with.
GL mith: well, if CA dies, and is in fact scum, you come out anyway, no question
GL mith: but if the other scum dies...
[LML]: and implicate Amelia.
[LML]: maybe I should be quiet
[LML]: Live another day?
GL mith: exactly
GL mith: there is that 5% that CA isn't scum
[LML]: So:
[LML]: If CA does and Scum => Come out.
GL mith: if the lynch heads your direction, you just come clean anyway
[LML]: If AS dies and scum => Shut mouth.
[LML]: Otherwise, play by ear.
GL mith: yeah
[LML]: easy enough.
[LML]: what if the perisher dies tonight w/ an innocent.
GL mith: then you have to come out
GL mith: if both scum are alive, the town has to lynch one of them
GL mith: even if the perisher is still alive, i don't want to take a chance on the scum killing the perisher the next night and losing that way
[LML]: sounds good.
GL mith: and i'll try not to do anything stupid
[LML]: I feel confident with the two of us together.
[LML]: WHOA
[LML]: WHOA!
GL mith: hm?
[LML]: LoudmouthLee wrote:
Can I recruit?

[Mod quote removed. Paraphrase: LML is still pro-town.]

GL mith: whoa
GL mith: maybe my wacky theory was right
GL mith: i guess i should check with cadmium too
[LML]: yeah.
[LML]: you should.
[LML]: I'm confused.
GL mith: it's possible i'm cult and you're not. i only mention the possibility because if that's the case, i can't win anyway
GL mith: but we need to know, because if that's the case, then CA is probably telling the truth
GL mith: the way cadmium worded that makes me think otherwise.
[LML]: PS: If you are..
[LML]: Tell me.
[LML]: I'll shoot for a split.
GL mith: i will
GL mith: like i said, best i could do is draw anyway
GL mith: pah, i know you're on cadmium, answer me
GL mith: no answer yet, i see him on too
GL mith: pah
[LML]: you're cult?
GL mith: pah at the no answer
GL mith: i don't know, he hasn't answered
GL mith: it doesn't make much sense either way, does it?
GL mith: if neither of us are cult... what was fritz?
[LML]: not at all....
[LML]: I'm confused.
GL mith: and if i am, why didn't cadmium tell you that last night?
GL mith: right, i'm not cult
GL mith: what the hell was fritz?
GL mith: this makes no sense
[LML]: we're in TROUBLE
[LML]: and I hate Cad so much right now.
GL mith: loi
GL mith: no joke
[LML]: the hate is coming out of my ears.
GL mith: so do we still think CA is scum?
[LML]: Hell if I know.
[LML]: We're masons now.
[LML]: That's cool.
GL mith: 4 masons
GL mith: 8 players
GL mith: should be a win, if not for the double kills
[LML]: So....
[LML]: how are we going to get the town to believe this?
GL mith: i have no idea
[LML]: OMG
[LML]: I know.
[LML]: are you SURE you aren't cult?
GL mith: he said "Nope."
GL mith: i can ask him again if you want
[LML]: [Mod quote removed. Paraphrase: Original message after LML was recruited, saying due to CA's actions (without naming CA) he had same alignment.]
GL mith: was that in your original PM?
[LML]: when I lost my cop ability.
GL mith: i didn't get told that
GL mith: i just got "You are now able to communicate with Fritzler and LoudmouthLee at night."
[LML]: I'm gonna keep you alive anyway....
GL mith: i am oh so confused
[LML]: but...
[LML]: CA's legit.
GL mith: alright
GL mith: so who does that leave?
GL mith: AS, Mackay, tss?
[LML]: Amelia = Scum
[LML]: Mackay = InHim = Scum
[LML]: TSS = Perisher.
[LML]: I will never know if I was naive or sane.
[LML]: You were innocent.
GL mith: you were naive, you checked inHim
[LML]: Vis was innocent.
[LML]: Right...
GL mith: unless mackay is the perisher
GL mith: but that makes even less sense
[LML]: But we have no proof, right now, that InHim was scum.
GL mith: hm
[LML]: don't make me FoS you...
[LML]:
GL mith: hm?
[LML]: I'm pro-town cult and you're anti-town cult. It seems somewhat obvious to me. Again, Mith. I implore you. If you know something that I don't.. say it now before we get deeper into this.
GL mith: i'm so mad at fritz
GL mith: actually, i'm trying to find out if i can re-recruit you
[LML]: Why'd you lie to me?
[LML]:
GL mith: it's what i do
[LML]: PS: I caught you.
[LML]:
GL mith: of course you caught me
GL mith: i didn't know i was scum until just now!
[LML]: do you have a recruit?
GL mith: yes
[LML]: awesome.
[LML]: go go scummy.
GL mith: we can find out who the scum are
[LML]: wow.
[LML]: this is the oddest masonry convo ever.
GL mith:
[LML]: bar none.
GL mith: did you really not know you were still the same alignment?
GL mith: or were you just trying to make sure of me?
[LML]: the latter.
[LML]:
GL mith: there was no way i was getting out of it anyway
[LML]: Wanted to see you try
GL mith: i couldn't very well say my PM said the same as yours
[LML]: You're pretty damn good.
[LML]: So I forgive you
[LML]: Recommendation.
[LML]: DO NOT recruit me tonight.
GL mith: i can't
[LML]: Damnit.
[LML]: So...
[LML]: what do we do.
GL mith: we lynch the scum
[LML]: You tell me.
GL mith: neither of us win otherwise
[LML]: you have recruits!
[LML]: Damnit Mith.
[LML]: \Stop it.
GL mith: which i can't use
[LML]:
[LML]: on me!
[LML]: You have recruits on others.
GL mith: yes
GL mith: are you going to let me use them?
GL mith: you're still part of the cult
GL mith: pro-town or not
GL mith: so you'll find out if i recruit anyone
[LML]: okay.
[LML]: we're both screwed.
[LML]: is Cad on AIM?
GL mith: not that i know of
[LML]: I hate him.
GL mith: loi
GL mith: we're fine
[LML]: ok Mith.
GL mith: we'll figure out the scum
[LML]: I lose!
[LML]: NO!
[LML]: Stop it.
[LML]: My win condition is with the town.
[LML]: not with the cult.
GL mith: so we'll draw
GL mith: you're missing the point
GL mith: if we don't lynch the scum, we both lose anyway
[LML]: Okay.
[LML]: Lets lynch AmeliaSlay.
GL mith: we get it down to three
GL mith: me, you, scum
GL mith: we lynch scum
GL mith: we draw
GL mith: that's the only solution i see
[LML]: oh my god I hate CA
GL mith: loi
[LML]: This would be SO much easier if I were part of the cult.
[LML]: Hmmm...
[LML]: WAIT!
[LML]: WAIT!
[LML]: Y'know what?
[LML]: Recruit tonight.
GL mith: why?
[LML]: We need to get CA to target me again.
GL mith: huh?
[LML]: If CA targets me again...
[LML]: I may turn back to the cult.
GL mith: CA said he was one-shot
[LML]: how the hell would he know that?
GL mith: ~shrug~
[LML]: Didn't we all get the same random PM?
[LML]: with just the verse?
GL mith: probably cadmium told him after he chose you that he had succeeded and no longer had a choice
GL mith: seriously
GL mith: and i normally wouldn't say this, but i'm so annoyed with fritz and cad
GL mith: let's go for a draw
[LML]: deal.
[LML]: PS:
[LML]: You fuck me here...
[LML]: and you're gonna be a marked man.
[LML]:
GL mith: the same goes for you
GL mith: anyway, i'm likely to get killed anyway
[LML]: by scum.
GL mith: ...subtract one of those "anyway"s
GL mith: exactly
GL mith: can i use my little heart wrenching speech i prepared for you earlier?
[LML]: PS: I wait for the day we're scum together.
[LML]: Sure
GL mith: fritz is a moron and even if the town decides to kill me, i'll consider it a win in my heart
[LML]: i'm still pissed you lied to me
[LML]: because, if I didnt double check, we would have lynched CA
[LML]:
[LML]: "double check"
[LML]:
[LML]: y'know what?
GL mith: loi
GL mith: i just wanted the time to think about it
[LML]: I can sacrafice myself.
GL mith: i'd probably have come clean anyway
[LML]: and still play on the side of the cult.
[LML]: that may ruin the game.
GL mith: sac yourself how?
[LML]: Ask for my lynch to clear CA
[LML]: I get lynched.
[LML]: CA is a confirmed townie.
[LML]: shot at night.
GL mith: and the scum probably win
GL mith: we don't have time for that
[LML]: and you have 3 cultists.
[LML]: bah
[LML]: you're right
[LML]: do we tell the truth here?
GL mith: would they believe it if we did?
[LML]: and whatif the scum is smart and stops NKing?
GL mith: why would they stop?
GL mith: it wouldn't buy them anything
[LML]: to make it look like we have eliminated all the scum.
GL mith: we know we haven't
[LML]: so we lynch incorrectly a cult member...
GL mith: we know the wood verse is still out there
[LML]: So, only wood and perisher?
GL mith: i still think there's a 4th with the numbers group
GL mith: but maybe not
GL mith: 3 just seems so weak
[LML]: So...
GL mith: considering how strong the cult should be with a half-competent fritz
[LML]: you're telling me (and I really need to know this)
[LML]: that 1 cult 1 town = draw according to Cad?
GL mith: oh, i never asked that
GL mith: but i can't kill
GL mith: i'll check, of course
[LML]: Next thing. Try to recruit tonight.
[LML]: We *should* be able to ascertain who the last scum is if it is not CA
GL mith: i will
GL mith: for one thing, i have to
[LML]: My guess, still, is Mackay.
GL mith: for another, you might get killed
[LML]: Oh!
[LML]: Thanks for telling me now.
[LML]: I ahte you.
[LML]: HATE YOU
[LML]: what draw were you talking about?
[LML]: YOU LIED AGAIN!
[LML]:
GL mith: i didn't lie!
[LML]: How could we draw if you, at the end, have 3 minions...
[LML]: doh
[LML]: I hate this game.
[LML]: I am REALLY pissed.
[LML]: Can I just be a cultie.
GL mith: i have to *try* to recruit
[LML]: Please?
[LML]: try and recruit Mackay.
GL mith: that's my point
[LML]: Use your powers for good.
[LML]:
GL mith: i point at a scum, and i fail, we know they're scum
[LML]: and with that, I need some booze.
GL mith: anyway, as i said, if i recruit successfully, you'll know about it
GL mith: since you're still in the cult
[LML]: PS: Can we ream out Cad and Fritzler after the game?
GL mith: please
[LML]: thank you.
[LML]: Cad for creating this mess, Fritz for being way too incompetent day 1-4
GL mith: what would you have done if he hadn't been so incompetent?
[LML]: Lost.
[LML]: Gracefully.
GL mith: heh

[snip]

[LML]: I cannot believe.
[LML]: I'm a pro-town cultist
[LML]: in an anti-town cult.
GL mith: an anti-town cult of one
[LML]: and we're...
[LML]: coexisting
[LML]:
[LML]: PS: If I die...
[LML]: WIN ONE FOR THE GIPPER!
GL mith: heh
GL mith: ditto

[snip]

GL mith: in fact, if i die, i want you to get things into a prisoner's dilemma, and end up as the sole survivor
GL mith: and claim victory for the cult

[snip]

[LML]: That's going to be nuts.

[snip]

[LML]: How can we do that.....

[snip]

[LML]: Anyway...
[LML]: I have to run for now.
GL mith: alright
[LML]: If I come up with anything else...
[LML]: I'll IM you.
GL mith: alright
[LML]: peace.
GL mith: and i'll let you know for sure who i'm trying to recruit
GL mith: in case i die
GL mith: but assume mackay for now
[LML]: ooh.
[LML]: I asked a good question.
[LML]: and got a good answer.
GL mith: cadmium said it'd be a draw, btw
GL mith: what's that?
[LML]: When i get killed, since I'm a pro-town CULT MEMBER... do I set listed in purple?
[LML]: [Mod quote removed. Paraphrase: LML would turn up black.]
GL mith: black is just a really dark purple anyway
[LML]: well...
[LML]: pro-town.
[LML]: okay, peace.
GL mith: cya
GL mith: i checked: if i die, the recruit will still go through
GL mith: so if it doesn't, it's because mackay's scum
GL mith: (or whoever)
[LML]: Was TSS revived AFTER LyingBrian was killed?
[LML]: wand was it the day after?
GL mith: lyingbrian was lynched day 2
GL mith: tss revived night/day 4
[LML]: hmmm
[LML]: ok, bbl
Session Close ([LML]): Sun Mar 19 18:08:42 2006

Session Start (AIM - glmith:[LML]): Thu Mar 23 22:34:05 2006
[LML]: sir?
*** Auto-response sent to [LML]: I am currently away from the computer.
[LML]: hmmm.
[LML]: You here?
[LML]: We need a chat, mith
GL mith: stop sending me messages at 5am
[LML]: where are you?
GL mith: UK
GL mith: what do we need to chat about?
[LML]: why'd i think you were in texas?
GL mith: i'm from texas
GL mith: and am there on breaks
[LML]: So...
[LML]: you tried to recruit Mackay...
GL mith: yes?
[LML]: and tomorrow...
[LML]: you're recruiting Amelia.
GL mith: i'm recruiting vitaminR, actually
[LML]: no.
[LML]: why?
GL mith: amelia has to be scum, yes?
[LML]: Mith.
[LML]: I will call for your death if you recruit Vitamin R.
GL mith: either vitaminR or myself will almost certainly be killed
GL mith: i have to preserve the cult for the draw
[LML]: Sir.
GL mith: you will have your draw, as promised, even if i succeed
[LML]: I was not playiong with the CULT
[LML]: I was playing with you!
[LML]: and no.
[LML]: I wont.
GL mith: yes, you will
[LML]: Because there's no more kills.
[LML]: and VitaminR converts CA
[LML]: and I LOSE
[LML]: No die.
[LML]: no dice.
GL mith: huh?
[LML]: So..
[LML]: you convert Vitamin
[LML]: you die.
[LML]: SK gets lynched.
GL mith: then we don't draw anyway
[LML]: However....
GL mith: so don't come at me with this "i was playing for a draw with you" nonsense
[LML]: What the hell are you talking about?
GL mith: it's not a sure thing that CA can even be recruited
GL mith: just listen for a moment
[LML]: I was going to keep my end of the bargain.
[LML]: no.
[LML]: you listen.
[LML]: You recruit Amelia.
[LML]: If she gets lynched.
GL mith: you're really not getting this, are you. if i recruit amelia, and i get killed, i lose. period.
[LML]: but..
GL mith: i am playing for a draw
[LML]: by recruiting VitaminR...
[LML]: HOW?
GL mith: i recruit vitaminR
GL mith: *if* i die, the cult is still alive
GL mith: whether you live up to the draw with him or not is up to you
GL mith: if i *don't* die, vitaminR probably will. and if we both live, i will still honor the draw
[LML]: how so?
[LML]: will you vote VitaminR?
GL mith: tomorrow?
[LML]: no.
GL mith: the next day, yes
GL mith: absolutely
[LML]: I have your word and your honor?
GL mith: yes
[LML]: Don't make me really hate you. I worked way too hard for the quick Mackay lynch.
[LML]:
GL mith: so long as you understand why i have to recruit VR
[LML]: I guess I do.
GL mith: alright
GL mith: i'll probably get killed anyway
[LML]: I'm just...
[LML]: concerned, Mith.
GL mith: it's so obvious i'm the cultist, in spite of your denial
[LML]: Well.. you jumped lithe the cultist

[snip]

[LML]: Ok...
[LML]: last time...
[LML]: I have your word.
[LML]: correct?
GL mith: yes
GL mith: do i have yours?
[LML]: do I have your word that, if your recruit on VitaminK is successful, you will not recruit the next day?
GL mith: yes
GL mith: or rather, i'll recruit you
[LML]: okay.
[LML]: Or...
[LML]: err..
[LML]: Also...
GL mith: or myself
GL mith: i think i'm required to recruit *someone*
[LML]: Do I have your word that you will vote to kill VitaminR?
GL mith: yes
[LML]: IYou have my word that, if alive, I will vote to kill CA
GL mith: ok
[LML]: PS: This is the most fucked up endgame ever.
GL mith: no kidding
[LML]: also... a note of scare...
[LML]: From: Cadmium
To: LoudmouthLee
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: If Mith Dies...
LoudmouthLee wrote:
do I still find out his result of culting?

[Mod quote removed. Paraphrase: Good work, you'll know if he recruits, but when he dies he might not.]

GL mith: hm
[LML]: he said when.
[LML]: not if.
GL mith: i told you i'm likely to die
[LML]: it's ok.
[LML]: if you die and you're unsuccessful to recruit... the cult loses.
GL mith: which is why i'm trying to recruit VR instead of amelia
[LML]: the town lynches amelia bedilia, and the town wins.
GL mith: if i die and just fail because of that, there's not much i can do about it anyway
GL mith: out of my hands there
[LML]: right.
[LML]: send in the recruit.
[LML]: i'm fwding this convo to cad for fun.
GL mith: alright
GL mith: back to bed for me
GL mith: later
[LML]: you send it in?
GL mith: yeah
Session Close ([LML]): Fri Mar 24 06:07:44 2006

Cogito Ergo Sum · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:38 am

Also, it has the same effect as mod PM quoting. It becomes about being able to emulate other people's style. That's not playing mafia any more.

On top of that, QuickTopic is even worse due to the time stamps. It could basically become impossible for scum to counterclaim mason or in this case cultist.

Phoebus · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:08 am

I should've been clearer.
Given the context, all power to those who fake such a big log. There will definitely be people poring over it.

If you don't have much to showcase, you wouldn't need a log.
You would only need a log if you talked a lot.
Not too many masons talk a lot.
It's almost circular.

Norinel · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:27 am

Phoebus wrote:I should've been clearer.
Given the context, all power to those who fake such a big log. There will definitely be people poring over it.

Can you use the same argument to say all power to those who fake their role PM, since there will definitely be people poring over it?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:06 am

*agrees with Norinel*

Phoebus · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:24 am

Sure.
But we've never had people faking role PMs.
If you do that and not get modkilled while pasting what "appears" to be a legit PM and it's regular rules, you're dead. One way or another.

Did Nori make a statement for you to agree with Pig(widgeon)?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:55 pm

If you're going to be a sucker for any log that's really long, I could fake a really long convincing one.

Talking to myself isn't that hard....

Phoebus · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:03 pm

All power to you.
You're missing the point.

*WHY* would you want to post a log in the first place?
Here, it was towards a cult win. WHEN would you want to post a log?
WHY do any such thing in a pro town case? WHEN?

If you don't want to talk about that, then fine, you've made your point. It was already acknowledged that faking a log is neither difficult not improbable.
You win?

Fiasco · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:50 am

I'm not sure if faking a long chat log is doable, but in any case it's a lot of tedious work. I think tradeoffs between avoiding a lot of tedious work and winning tend to be bad for the game. Also, it's ethically dubious; I know I wouldn't want to have words put into my mouth in a fake chat log.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:08 am

I don't see any reason there should be a rule against it. The main reason it's against the rules to quote mod PM's is to avoid having all the townies auto-confirming each other by the exact wording of their role PM's. (What's the third word of your PM? How many letters are there in your PM? ect). I don't really think it's unbalancing to quote a chat log, or an AIM conversation or a PM you got from your mason partner last night, and it's not like it happens often enough to be worth worrying about.

Aelyn · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:04 am

Yosarian2 wrote:I don't see any reason there should be a rule against it. The main reason it's against the rules to quote mod PM's is to avoid having all the townies auto-confirming each other by the exact wording of their role PM's. (What's the third word of your PM? How many letters are there in your PM? ect). I don't really think it's unbalancing to quote a chat log, or an AIM conversation or a PM you got from your mason partner last night, and it's not like it happens often enough to be worth worrying about.

I have a relatively unusual stance in that regard - I allow modquoting. Fully and freely.

However, to prevent the problems set out above, I a) provide a sample role PM, pointing out things everyone has, the "official" victory condition, and the "official" line showing pro-town alignment, and b) avoid writing identical role PMs (since I mainly design themed minis, this is not difficult.)

VitaminR · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:27 am

I don't have a problem with the content, but I don't see what real advantages quoting chat logs brings over paraphrasing. It seems to me that it muddles the issue as things like screennames, spelling errors and the amount of small talk can suddenly play a role.

Phoebus · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:33 am

Then it becomes your job to sift through it and get the core essence.
How would that be different from a Pooky, LML or Seol tying you up in knots with regular word play?

Yosarian2 · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:54 am

Aelyn wrote: I have a relatively unusual stance in that regard - I allow modquoting. Fully and freely.

However, to prevent the problems set out above, I a) provide a sample role PM, pointing out things everyone has, the "official" victory condition, and the "official" line showing pro-town alignment, and b) avoid writing identical role PMs (since I mainly design themed minis, this is not difficult.)

Even in a situation like that, allowing mod PM's to be quoted can lead to problems; see "No Exit Mafia" with all the lynching because "the mod never makes spelling mistakes, so your mod quote must be fake."

Rainbow Brite · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:03 pm

Phoebus wrote:How would that be different from a Pooky, LML or Seol tying you up in knots with regular word play?

those knots, as you call them, are the way to shatter through the lies. only by examining what somone said can we find out what they meant - especially

what they didn't intend to mean

, which is the important bit.

i've just had an interesting idea re: the quoting mod pms issue. mmm. i'll try it out in a mini soon.

i think it'll be quite good.

Phoebus · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:15 am

so in relation to chat logs, fake or otherwise, this would mean...?

Rainbow Brite · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:03 am

that was just me responding to a poke.

i'm of the opinion that quoting anything that relates specifically to the game from outside the game shouldn't be allowed. that encompasses all pms from the mod, and pms between masons. that would also include chatlogs.

why? mafia is a game of words as well as deduction. each player should only be entitled to use their own words, and should be judged on them. it's not about what the consequences of removing the rule are, it's about the basic philosophy of the game.

that's just my opinion.