How Often...?

[Tamuz]

Just a question, that should probably be looked at.

We all regard docs (and cops) as very valuable roles for the town. Cops are fairly negligible for this question because they get responses to the positive and the negative. Docs however, don't. But anyway my question is how often do doctors actually save?
This follows the thought process of how valuable are they really to the town. Or are they mainly a psychological effect/claim for the mafia (unless a power-role is outed, then they become invaluable)/

[GreenLiquid]

Not often, but sometimes.

I think it generally would fall to about once a game, if that. It's really not all that common.

Let me look at some statistics...

[GreenLiquid]

In both Color and Kirby mafia, the doctor successfully protected only once. So, yeah, the odds aren't terribly good, but one saved kill could make a difference...

[VisMaior]

The doc is there for strategic reasons, not for the actual protection. As long as the doc lives undetected the cop may spill results, because he can count on beeing protected. Even if others get NKd, the doc does his thing.

[GreenLiquid]

Also, doctors are good because they don't have to claim and can still use their role effectively.

[the silent speaker]

Then again there's the occasional Norse Myth Mafia, where right to the end I was working on the assumption of one big scum group because there was a kill attempt on my targets every single night.

[mathcam]

I think VisMajor's already posted the key response.

Cam

[Glork]

Then again there's the occasional Norse Myth Mafia, where right to the end I was working on the assumption of one big scum group because there was a kill attempt on my targets every single night.

Eh, games like Norse Myth are extreme exceptions. I wonder if that game set a record for the number of successful protects... because I don't think more than one player died by scumkills in any given night during that game...

[Yosarian2]

It depends. The scum can kill almost every night and avoid doc protection, but only if they choose their kills carefully, avoiding high profile players or confirmed innocents or power roles. Of course, if they avoid killing the people they most want to kill, then the doc is helping the town even if they never save a person. On the other hand, the scum sometimes tries to outguess the doc, tries to figure out which of the most useful pro-town people are going to get protected and take out someone else instead. If the scum use this stratagy, the doc will save a lot more people, but killing some power-roles or confirmed innocents might be more valuable to the scum then killing a more generic townies.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If the doctor's just there for strategic reasons, then by extension you don't actually need a doctor. In Payola Mafia, there were 2 confirmed innocents night 2, but we(the mafia) killed off Tamuz, because we didn't want to risk doc protection. There wasn't a doc. (The lack of doctor did allow us to win eventually, but it only became obvious to us there wasn't a doctor after everyone had claimed.)

[Glork]

On the other hand, not having a Doctor can be an extreme detriment to the town, *especially* if they are under the assumption that there exists a Doc. A gutsy mafia will be willing to try a hit on a claimed Cop or a confirmed innocent, partially to test the existence of a Doc. This kind of information often becomes invaluable. And in a larger game, it usually comes at a relatively low price.

[ralphmerridew]

Take Kingmaker mafia. A doc would have really helped the town by keeping one cop alive for a few days. (Though the town's done fairly well despite that.)

[Glork]

...I was trying not to point to specific currently running games... but, yes. That's one game I had in mind.