The Mafiascum Archives (Idea)

[GreenLiquid]

I've been wanting to do this for awhile, the idea being, why not make a library or archive of notable scum games? Essentially we can sort them in different categories (good reads, good theory discussion, interesting mechanics, good introduction to mafia, etc.) to form a library of sorts of mafia material which could then be cited in future games. I'm actually surprised something more or less like this hasn't been done before.

One could argue that

any

game could be included, but I'm thinking more the notable ones. For example, people have been saying Kingmaker had some excellent Theory discussion (although personally I have only read bits of pieces of it, not the whole thing, so I don't know). So it would probably go under that category. Another game with just some occasional theory mentions wouldn't.

The idea would essentially be that the community would vote on games that fit into the chosen categories. The only rule I would have for this is that mods cannot nominate their own games (just so that they don't try to make their game famous). Then if new players want to have good mafia introductions, they're here, or if vets want some good theory discussion, they can find it, or if you've got an hour to kill and want a good read, you can locate that too. So, my question to the mafiascum community is the time-old one, the one that separates the legends from the losers, the one that defines society and the earth as we know it: yay or nay?

[Twomz]

Sure I guess. Are we going to nominate then vote on games? Or will there be like.. a committee to decide which games are noted and which aren't.

Also, should we reach outside of mafiascum for a few games (namely Sin City from MTGSalvation... possible the craziest mafia game EVER).

[bluesoul]

Heh...I'm gonna have to break down and read Sin City in full some time. I read the endgame. You know you're looking at some kind of weird game when two players square off on the final day, 2 Alive, 2 to Lynch.

[Twomz]

hey, don't ruin it for everyone else BS . (I still need to do a full read too)

[GreenLiquid]

I was thinking more where people can nominate and vote for games to be added to different categories. If only a couple of people have read it but still think it qualifies, we could have a comittee of sorts where a member of the committee would read the game and see if it fits.

[Ghyrt]

I'd be willing to be on the comittee for some games. You should PM mith to see if we can get a forum list page. I'm also wondering if it's possible (I'm sure it probably is) to copy games from their origional location; old games are eventually removed from their origional forums which means links, though ideal, won't work by themselves (Although it might be deemed practical to have a link index page as a sticky, referencing the copied games, assuming this gets it's own page).

[mith]

I'm not sure what you're requesting, exactly.

We've discussed in the past (and it's still in the plans) doing a little database which would contain information about all the games (Mod, Players, Roles, Choices, Result, etc.), whether as a separate thing for records or as part of the forum software for more complete searching.

The threads, though... there's really no point in moving them anywhere. We could create a new forum and put some old games in there (wouldn't affect links, each thread as a number independent of the forum is in), but that seems a bit pointless and it would just add to a forum list that's already getting a bit crowded.

Why not put something on the wiki, instead? It would be nice if *every* game had a wiki page eventually, but making pages for notable games (with links to the thread) and making a list of those pages would be useful. The nominations and such, though, seems just to be an extension of the Scummies. Perhaps we start a little "Hall of Fame" and induct games into it at Scummies time.

[Ghyrt]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, as I don't know exactly how this site runs, but by making an organized effort to move and archive noteworthy games, you'd be able to delete old, ordinary games as you saw fit (this would help fix your problem as I understand it). Either way, I'd be willing to be on the committee that creates the link page.

[Ghyrt]

BTW, I'm not putting-down the wiki idea. I think it sounds good too; I just think that more people will visit a library

sticky

.

[petroleumjelly]

Uh...

I like the idea, but I think the best way to do this would simply to have a thread on its own which is titled something like "Games Archive", which will have categories of specific game-types, and under that,

links

to games which apply.

Perhaps we can have a set of players "rank" each link in its informative value and/or entertainment value as well. I think something like this has crossed pretty much everybody's mind (the "I'm bored, and I feel like reading a game... anybody have a suggestion?" mentality is common).

[mith]

Fix what problem? Why would we want to delete old games?

[bluesoul]

I like mith's idea of having a "Hall of Fame" included in the Scummies. I'll also start keeping Wiki pages for my games. Might be fun.

Possible categories:
Most Interesting Game (Interesting theme, game mechanics, or roles)
Most Entertaining Read
Most Enlightening Game (Mafia Theory)
Biggest Bastard Moderator
Best Overall Game (Interesting, Entertaining, Enlightening)

[Rainbow Brite]

i don't think being the biggest bastard mod is something we should be celebrating...

[Ghyrt]

Fix what problem? Why would we want to delete old games?

We don't want to, in theory, but you said the site is getting "crowded as it is". If you're limited in website size (again, I don't know) this would be a good filter; but since this doesn't seem like that big of a deal, I now agree that we simply need a link page for this.

IMHO, this should be a sticky in the disscussion page, with it's own mod/chairman, who would elect members who vote on all nominations. I agree that someday all games should be archived, but I think GreenLiquid intended for an on site list noteable games. It would be a relatively short list of games with short descriptions. For example Game X, nominated for having a really good cop, would have an appropriate brief description so that someone wanting to improve their cop skills could root through all games in the "cop" category. The reason I'm so addamant about this, is that right now, it is really hard to learn about strategies for specific roles if no one is currently talking about them. Once again, this could be a sticky instead.

[GreenLiquid]

I like the idea, but I think the best way to do this would simply to have a thread on its own which is titled something like "Games Archive", which will have categories of specific game-types, and under that, links to games which apply.

Exactly what I was thinking. If someone wants to add a game, they just say which one, and then other people can vote if it fits or the category. If something doesn't get many votes, we can have a group of 'judges' where one of them will read the game and determine whether or not it fits.

[GreenLiquid]

Why not put something on the wiki, instead? It would be nice if *every* game had a wiki page eventually

I actually really like this idea. It would be hard work, but if every game had a wiki page, it would be pretty nice! Perhaps there could be a large group of people who agree to read over past games (divy up the workload between them) and then for more recent games, well, it's a wiki, so the players/mod/viewers can all edit the page to add stuff.

[Thok]

It would need to be a lot of people-there are over 700 games (although some of the are trapped in the pre-Crash backups [hint, hint, nudge, nudge])

What might be useful for a wikiproject is to set up a template of what sorts of things should be included on a wikipage for a game. A could place to start might be the game lists in the mini regular/mini theme queues-those include roles and when people were killed/lynched. But we want to include other things also.

[HezLucky]

I don't like Thok's idea.

When I read through a good game I do NOT want to know the result beforehand.

[mith]

i don't think being the biggest bastard mod is something we should be celebrating...

Agreed.

We don't want to, in theory, but you said the site is getting "crowded as it is".

I said the forum list is getting crowded as it is (and about to get more crowded, as we're going to split the Minis). We're nowhere near our space limit.

(although some of the are trapped in the pre-Crash backups [hint, hint, nudge, nudge])

Yeah yeah, we're working on it.

I don't like Thok's idea.

When I read through a good game I do NOT want to know the result beforehand.

Then we simply set it up so that you only see the result if you choose to see the results.

[Echo419]

I'd like the idea of a list of links to important games (Gambits II, Kingmaker, Best of the Internet?). I often read old games, but I never know if it will be a good read or not. Having them catalouged is a great idea.

[Thok]

I'd like the idea of a list of links to important games (Gambits II, Kingmaker, Best of the Internet?). I often read old games, but I never know if it will be a good read or not. Having them catalouged is a great idea.

Weird, of those three I consider Kingmaker the only really important one. Gambits II was basically just a mass claim preceded by some PJ antics. BoI is just long. (You can get a good summary of BoI by reading DGB's posts, followed by reading my posts. The posts by the other 30 or so players are irrelevant.)

Some interesting mini games in my opinion (This list is not close to complete, as even I have not read all 700 games on scum. Also, most games are postcrash. I've generally not included my games also, out of modesty or something.)

Improbable Role (Precrash, needs a link) for those who ever wondered "Why a Flying Pumpkin who shoots lasers out of it ass?"
Mini 44 Trouble in the Toybox
Mini 67 Homestar Runner
Mini 124 Palindromafia
Mini 167 Les Miserables
Mini 170 Time Travel (Mini 190 is also a time travel game)
Mini 171 No Exit Mafia
Mini 240 Worse Role Ever
Mini 263 Ladies Night with Mr. Stoofer
mini 294 Post Restriction Take 1

[Twomz]

No Exit? YAUS!

Post Restriction 1? MEGA YAUS!

Not sure about the others though. I don't think i've read them.

On the bastard moddery, i'll nominate my first game Mini 313.


The thing is, the scummies take care of most of this stuff. Maybe we could just make a Game only version of the scummies that would just be constantly updated on the Wiki? Any game can be nominated, after a certain number of seconds, a vote will go up, then if it's accepted it will be put on the list.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't think we should vote on stuff. I think it should be something added to the wiki, and people can add games as they wish.

[petroleumjelly]

Uh... I don't want our Wiki to be like

the

Wiki. Then we'll just get people adding games saying "I was an awesome Vig in that game, LAWLZ", and the game itself might not be a 'good read'. Voting makes sure there is at least some sort of recognizable concensus that a game is indeed

good

.

And I agree with Thok. Back to Gambits II sucked (*cough*) and mostly just came down to confirmable roles. For the record, I didn't much like Kingmaker either (I can see how "theory" can be argued, but I would still suggest reading the Kingmaker Discussion Thread in tandem to get clearer views on the set-up of the game and strategies which were left unused). BoI is also just known for it being the longest game in the history of Mafia Scum, and I know that I probably won't waste a day of my life bothering to read it. From what I understand, that's just another game where scum-groups were screwed over by a mass-claim. Nobody wants to read

that

.

[Yaw]

Definitely like this idea. I think the intent is more to have recommended games, which is definitely worthwhile (though I think we could do both -- wikify all games and have a "Best of" page). The question is more about how to select something for the best of list.

Definitely need the classics: Improbable Role and Intrigue are the two big ones that come to mind. But it's possible to also have examples of negatives. (For example, The Hobbit Mafia is an excellent demonstration of PolarBoy's degenerate Lion King Mafia thought experiment in practice. Does it deserve inclusion on the basis of that point of modding theory? Similarly, No Exit could be used as a demonstration of why the modquoting rule exists, in addition to or instead of the reasons it's probably been nominated.)

I think what it comes down to is that this is less a popularity contest, and more a way to recognize the games that deserve it for posterity. Every game on the list should have a definite reason for being there. That makes this quite different from the Scummies -- the Scummies reward only one game or player for a defined set of categories each year. The List can recognize multiple games in a year, or even games that were never considered for the Scummies but are remarkable for introducing new roles or concepts, or being exceptional examples of a person playing a certain role.