Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[Boonskiies]

Oh, haha.

[MonkeyMan576]

If you're going to lie as town, you'd better be prepared to not always be believed later on. The idea that I was suspicious of Cheetory does not make me a poor player.

[Cheetory6]

Being suspicious of me and voting me and saying Lynch All Liars are hilariously different.

[MonkeyMan576]

Was a joke Boon.. lol.

You need to learn to step back and not get so emotional about one or two posts.

It wasn't 1 or 2 posts, but whatever. You can go on believing that your play was acceptable and I can go on and play in games where I can hopefully spend more time trying to sort town/scum instead of scum/VIs.

No one was listening to me.

I wonder why. Maybe because you were hardpushing a policy lynch in MYLO.

I wasn't hard pushing. I was trying to start a dialogue. I would have been more than willing to switch with ample evidence.

[pieguyn]

MM, you have literally no reason to defend your play here.

_you_ are the one who flipped out and went insane in MYLO. _you_ are the one who loltunneled the fuck out of Cheetory, despite the fact that it was fairly obvious that Cheetory was not scum and that Cheetory-scum in this gamestate would have literally no reason to, nor would not even know how to, gambit in the way that he did on D3. and he told you this, and you ignored him and went "nup, LOL scum".

the fact that literally every townie besides you was on you at day end and I didn't even need to hammer is testimony to the fact that your play was scummy

it is one thing to admit you were wrong about something and move on. everyone is pissed off at you because not only were you wrong but you're so fucking arrogant about it and won't own up to it.

that's really the only thing I have to say about this topic. I don't care to continue this toxic discussion any further

[MonkeyMan576]

Being suspicious of me and voting me and saying Lynch All Liars are hilariously different.

I unvoted you at a certain point in the day, remember? I obviously wasn't set on lynching you. My vote ended up on scum, while most of the players vote was on town.

[MonkeyMan576]

MM, you have literally no reason to defend your play here.

_you_ are the one who flipped out and went insane in MYLO. _you_ are the one who loltunneled the fuck out of Cheetory, despite the fact that it was fairly obvious that Cheetory was not scum and that Cheetory-scum in this gamestate would have literally no reason to, nor would not even know how to, gambit in the way that he did on D3. and he told you this, and you ignored him and went "nup, LOL scum".

the fact that literally every townie besides you was on you at day end and I didn't even need to hammer is testimony to the fact that your play was scummy

it is one thing to admit you were wrong about something and move on. everyone is pissed off at you because not only were you wrong but you're so fucking arrogant about it and won't own up to it.

that's really the only thing I have to say about this topic. I don't care to continue this toxic discussion any further

Obviously I was wrong. Obviously I will try to use more moderate language in lylo in the future. What I don't like is trying to scapegoat a town loss on one person.

[Cheetory6]

Zzzz.
I'm gonna go study for the midterm I'm gonna fail in the morning.
Woohoo.

Pie is far more poignant than I am.

[Elbirn]

End game thoughts wheeeeeeeeee


@Cheeto: You played a way better game than this town deserved, all of your moves were right (well except declaring intent to hammer me cuz I was town but yeah), and you've got a brain in your head which made you enjoyable to play with. Candidate for Town MVP = you

@Acryon: Your Vig uses = on point, I know you'll never read this but you done gewd. Other candiate for Town MVP here.

@Pie

Oh and Pie if you're scum I will never trust you ever again. Kbaigaiz.

:/

Dat admission of guilt. ;_;

Seriously I wanted to say exactly that before I died. And I had some paranoia about you scumbuddying me, based on the same thing happening in my first game (Damn you, lady-scums). But I felt like I'd be muddying the waters too much, throwing shit at the only non-conftown person I was townreading. Also @your apologies in mafia thread and in here after the game, you did what you had to. You were scummy mcscumscum ;_; No hard feelings. At any rate, I still feel like anyone who put any thought into this game would have thought you were obv town, and damn if that doesn't make scumpie scary to play with. Nicely done.

@Victor: I really can't apologize to you enough for being stupid and lynching you D1, because I really, really didn't think you were scummy at all and I don't know how anyone did. And yet I voted you. Again, sorry. And if it's any consolation, I've played with you twice now and both times you've been a good character, and I would happily play with you a third.

@Everyone Else: A lot of you either died early or I just didn't wind up having an opinion on you. I'm not trying to snub you by not including you in my after game thoughts, I just don't know what to say other than you're all good peeps and I hope to see you around ^_^

@Myself: 1629 thru 1632. And so I left the game by killing myself, hedging on my opinion on the only correct-read I've ever had in the history of this site (Boonscum), and let scumbuddy me to victory. After lynching my only D1 townread because a VI told me to, and lynching town the next day.

Why am I not regarded as the VI who lost this game for town again? For srs I want noob advice pls help me not suck.

My sanity will be protected via blacklist.

So like I don't want to be mean, I mean I have the least right of anyone to call someone's play bad. But is there actually a blacklist, because I might want to utilize it...

[Elbirn]

Oh, one other thing.

K, Eektor claimed which was smart. But they're not putting two and two together and realizing that, if they believe him, they NEED to no lynch today for a near guaranteed win. Gah I wish I wasn't dead. I want to scream it at these people.

actually just realized that even if they do figure out the solution to the gamestate, we still have a nonzero chance to win since MM will just go and loltunnel Cheetory in 5p and we can quickhammer him

(for the record, the solution is to NL and have eektor bodyguard Cheetory, who would then gunsmith one of the remaining players and literally POE the scum team if he gets another clear. DO NOT BRING THIS UP IN THREAD FOR OBVIOUS FUCKING REASONS)

Pie it's like you're me

Srsly though Guys, this was the play. This. Was. The. Play. If I weren't dead I would have jumped through all of your computer monitors and screamed it at you. I really thought one of you would have realized.

[pieguyn]

Dat admission of guilt. ;_;

it wasn't an admission of guilt. and I know that cos I would have made the same post as town. it was intended to be me reacting to you getting hammered

Srsly though Guys, this was the play. This. Was. The. Play. If I weren't dead I would have jumped through all of your computer monitors and screamed it at you. I really thought one of you would have realized.

yeah, that's why I went and tried to spread paranoia of a scum doc as soon as eektor claimed bodyguard. which it looked like people started to buy at the end, but fortunately it ended up being a moot point!

[Toon Fighter]

Would definitely play with Eektor, Pie, Boon, Elbirn, Victor, Acryon or even Copper. Y'all were cool even if this game made me want to die a little on the inside.

what about me

[eektor]

Go figure, just when I thought we did good it ended up being boon and pie. I'm going to go read the other threads and then post up my thoughts. But really town sucked in this game and the worst part was I was on every single mislynch. I think I'm going to sign up for a beginner game after this.

[copper223]

@Monkey
I am sorry your town play really needs improving, but I don't like the atmosphere in the thread where everyone is just being a dick with you, like what is the guy going to learn from this? You all also ended up mislynching him after Formerfish pushed him to the ends of beyond D1 as VDA correctly pointed out in the dead thread so you are not exactly genuises yourselves.

@Cheetory
You had exactly the same problem I saw in Radiant you know? You played really well analyzing Copper vs VDA, sorry we got it wrong D1 btw but he really looked scummy to me and I guess I looked really scummy to him, what can you do, and D2 hinting at having something on Acryon, but after most of the town started to treat you as confirmed (and here the analogy with Radiant) you started posturing and telling them how bad they are instead of worrying about winning the game, that shit about being happy with a MM lynch because his play was crap if he is town is just terrible, you are justifying a mislynch in your eyes before it even happens so every analysis you will do after that is going to be super biased.

@Radiant
The problem with your play from how I saw it was not that your scumreads were wrong, that can happen, it was you did not provide the meat for why you were reading these people in said manner, so the rest of town had no clue about what you were thinking, you also have a super annyoing habit of telling the rest of us you had it figured out after the fact when it goes wrong, like after every mislynch you would say something along the lines of: oh I was just about to switch my vote or yes I pushed this because it's an infolynch regardless of so and so's alignment, I don't believe that's always the case and you shouldn't worry about getting it wrong and trying to justify yourself, just play your best and let the results speak for themselves.

@Eektor
Solid play, I dragged you on the first lynch so if anything blame me, unfortunately this game some townplayers looked really scummy so being on a mislynch is not as bad as you make it sound, I think the Boon/Pie bus was something nobody bothered much to analyize and it could have helped (but maybe that's just me having extra info) and you should have considered sleep as well to get in an extra check from Cheetory, but other than that protecting the IC and claiming at Mylo was fine.

@Acryon
Fuck you mate for shooting me and abandoning the game , you should have at least won it to make it up to me and preserve my winrate . Honestly if you read this really well played shooting Formerfish.

@Formerfish
Excellent play D1, the only slight scumvibe I got from you (excellent job masking the Monkey push behind policy, I don't know if you really believe policy is good because that came across really genuine), was when you said Copper has

lost

any sense of perspective (not sure of the exact word you used) when I FoSed you for the Victor support, becuase that implied you knew I was genuinly trying to begin with, a very minor thing though. Your play with the RB soft would have worked because Boon shot you during the night so you would have bene recruited, Acryon prolonged the agony for town but a well deserved win.

@Boon
Well played D1, I especially liked you saying you don't know how to read me, I was thinking about what you did with Flubber in our previous mafia game and how you tried to pocket him, but this time you did not stick to your townread at all costs so it was much harder to see you and Former were splitting on Copper/Vda and I thought your townread of me was genuine, dumb Copper I guess :p. You also pushed the right players to win the game. Personally I would not have bussed Pieguyn but despite Acryon's fanatasies (and his unfortunate small sample size of games played with me where I did actually bus because I had to) I almost never bus my scumpartners.

@Pieguyn
Made the best out of the Boon bus and managed to make some townie catch-ups, good job.

@Elbirn
Discussed in the dead thread, I disagree that you played so bad, we were at two ends of the town crashing into each other so we both got it wrong but at least you were one of the few who tried to make his positions clear and to analyze the game.

@Toon
You looked really scummy mate

@Futan
The real MVP this game, correct read on Victor and Copper, manages to get shot as VT by scum because they believe he is a PR, turns out the newest player was actually the best town player this game!

@VDA
No hard feelings from my side.

@Flames
Thanks for modding, please post setup relevant information in character 44 at the start of the game for dummies like me

[eektor]

Well played pie, Boon, and FF. You guys played great.

@Cheetory - We should have taken a break and decided today instead of yesterday. I was actually wanting to go for a pie lynch but at that point I thought Monkey and pie had to be the scum team, but pie would have been the safer bet as I thought the other possibility was pie and Boon.

@Monkey - I was wary of Cheetory possibly being scum, but looking back every situation I could think of made no sense from a scum perspective and only pointed to him being town. I tried to see why you thought Cheetory was scum, but couldn't see the reasoning. You saying pie was obvious town when in your shoes you should have been at least wary of pie because the pie / Boon scum team would make more sense than Cheetory being scum.

@RC - Explaining your reads would have been helpful. You were the only confirmed town and instead of trying to work with the other town, you were focused on pushing your agenda on everyone else. This made it very frustrating for me as town and I'm sure the other townies as well.

@pie - no hard feelings and it's all good. The whole arguing, I didn't really want to argue with you because I thought you were scum trying to do a mislynch on me. But wow, I didn't even vote for you once and I even went after Elbirn instead of you. I got a lot to learn in this game.

@Elbirn - sorry for mislynching you. I thought with pie defending you so hard and your reasons for why pie was obv town was kind of lacking meant you were scum. I guess now that I think of it, it would have made more sense the other way around.

@Boon - Well played, I will definitely be up to lynching you much earlier in the next game I play with you.

@acryon - Town MVP, the only town that actually got something right and killed the traitor even though we gave you tons of crap over the Victor vs copper scum vs scum read.

@Everyone else It was a pleasure playing with you guys. I'll try to get better so I won't be that bad of a townie next time.

Playing bodyguard was interesting. I was trying to lay low, but really I thought I was going to be dead if not the first night, the second night. I think it's pretty weird for a bodyguard to last the whole game when there was an IC to protect. I guess this wasn't your average game.

Oh and last but not least (actually the most important). Thanks Flames for modding the game. I enjoyed it.

[eektor]

@ Copper thanks copper. First day I was town reading you and possibly after Victor's flip. I think my biggest problem was I sheeped RC a lot during the game as she was a confirmed town and I really should have pushed for pie instead of Elbirn. Also, yeah I should have slept it over before voting Monkey. I think now I should have definitely pushed the no lynch harder and I probably should have claimed when I did mention the no lynch. Elbirn and pie had the right idea to win the game for town, but I didn't see it.

[copper223]

@Eektor
I also got a townread on you from the start because your posts were inquisitive without forcing anything and you seemed to be openly giving genuine opinions on everything of note that was happening, if you can mimic your townstyle well as scum I don't want to face your scumgame

[eektor]

Hmm, I'll have to remember that next time I get scum.

[pieguyn]

thanks everyone :3 also btw

Boon/me bus wasn't Boon playing to his scum meta of always hard bussing. we needed something to avoid getting POE'd since there were too many unlynchable ppl, so we basically went LOL FULL BUSSING MODE on each other so that the other one could win after one of us got lynched, which I figured was almost certainly going to happen at some point. of course, that all became unnecessary after D4 happened (but hey, it led to people ruling me/Boon out on the last day, so I guess it was still beneficial?). ironically, if I knew Boon's bussing meta, I might have come up with something else entirely since I'd be worried about people figuring it out.

[Cheetory6]

Copper, walk in a mile of shit and then tell me that it's unreasonable to be angry with people.
Nobody gave me a single consideration on D3 [except for scum] so I was already getting kind of frustrated with everyone and more receptive towards Pie.
D4 I fullclaim and the first thing Monkey does [from my perspective at least, apparently he doesn't think so] is hardpush Lynch All Liars and vote me in MYLO two minutes after I claim without even looking at anything I've said in the game. He says he had reasons for scumreading me during night cycle but takes 4+ hours to provide them. Calls Pie scummy for protecting me. Later calls Pie obvtown because of her tone [something he didn't mention at all on D3 when he called her and Elbirn obvscum]..
Tell me that the possibility that Fish hardbussed a scummate on D1 for townpoints doesn't start to seem plausible after that.
And for the record, I wasn't like 50/50 on Monkey being scum and being like "LEL I DONT CARE ANYMORE" I was super fucking convinced, but was consoling myself in advance on the off-chance that he was just.. playing in an 'interesting' way.

I get it. I'm a dick. I know I am.
I haven't forgotten how you were during D1 though, so you can shhhhh now.

[copper223]

@Cheetory
I have and I have made the same mistake as you, I actually lost another game with monkey in it by getting mod removed without warning because town was driving me nuts and I started arguing and flaming with another town player who wanted to lynch a vengeful claim at mylo and was baiting me to shoot him after I died (and he was another claimed PR), obviously after I was removed Monkey managed to get himself lynched despite the whole scumteam wanting the other PR dead

The criticism is ment to try and help you improve and I am hard on you because you have shown this game that you are a good player, in fact it's kind of fair to say a similar argument can be made about me after I kept getting pressured day 1 by Acryon, Victor, Elbirn and later Former (the mod removal happened at the same time so I was pissed as fuck during that period of time is the only thing I can say for those over the top comments). I also had much less information to work with at the time and some of my townreads had merit to be fair.

I accept the critique from you, but that doesn't mean you don't deserve it as well .

[Cheetory6]

That's fair.
Definitely know that I wasn't trying to throw the game though. I did legitimately think Monkey was scum. I was more just being snarky/pissed when I was saying we deserved to lose if Monkey was town and I actually did kind of mean it with regard to my own play.

[copper223]

Fair enough.

[Cheetory6]

Bleh.
If I ever get this mad in a game again, I'll take a day break and come back to it.
I hope you're happy Copper. >:(

what about me

Shoor.
Don't claim before someone gives intent again

[Elbirn]

Oh yeah, that. I mean I thought the Toonlynch was a good lynch, I really thought he was scum, but RC's hammer solely for him claiming =
And I was especially frustrated with it because I wanted to hint at being a PR before days end and get myself NK'd instead of mislynched, and RC's hammer meant I didn't really get to talk in twilight because I was at work. But that ended up being a moot point since Scum wasted their NK that night on FF, who roleblocked *me* instead of an actual role, so I guess that went as well as it could have?

Oh, I realized I snubbed Eektor and Boon, who I did in fact have opinions on!

@Eektor I think I still don't know how to read you, because for a lot of early game I thought you were coasting scum. Really didn't get the impression you were a PR laying low, but that might just be my inexperience and not your fault. I wanted to meta you based on our last game where you were scum, but you had a whole 10 posts in that game so I didn't really have any basis for it >.< At any rate you're a good character to play with.

@Boon, it's like I want to hate you but I can't. You're clearly not actually dumb, because whether I agree with it or not, your dumbness has reasoning behind it. Which actually makes you smart. But I'm particularly happy with you flipping scum, because Me V. You was really melting my brain, and it makes perfect sense for you to be a trolling scum in that situation, but if you were town I would have been disappointed. I'd happily play with you again, but the VI schtick is still gonna tempt me into policy lynching you early