Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[eektor]

hey guys

VOTE: Elbirn

He lost the game for town in my last game, so ...

And I'm also curious about whether that vote count is a typo or if there is something else to it.

[eektor]

I think Fish is town but I don't agree with his posts.

I don't like Toon Fighter's entrance. It seems lazy and trying to fly under the radar when we already had a bunch of discussion going on.

VOTE: Toon Fighter

[eektor]

@Acryon Why do you think Monkey is scum?

@copper Why are you leaning town on radiant? He's an innocent child, he is confirm town.

[eektor]

RadiantCowbells is a Town Innocent Child.

Forgot to say that at Day Start.

Flames mentioned the IC in post 9, which is right after copper posted so I can understand how he might have missed it.

@acryon I think the not participating in RVS from Monkey is something scum wouldn't do as it would create unnecessary attention to him. Although I do not like the tone of 56.

[eektor]

Toon's post 128 makes me feel better with my vote on him. It's like he's saying let me try to get a wagon started on Victor but put myself in position to hammer Monkey when the time comes.

@Toon As far as I'm concerned the game is out of RVS as soon as there is relevant information to start forming reads.

I believe the whole Fish vs Monkey is town vs town. I do want to FoS on Elbirn as his reason for a vote on Monkey seemed weak and there is something off about his posts.

[eektor]

I do want to FoS on Elbirn as his reason for a vote on Monkey seemed weak and there is something off about his posts.

I didn't like Monkey's responses, and I haven't really got much to go off of. *shrug* What do you see as being off about my posts? I am distracted by one other game I'm playing, so it might be that, but I'd like to hear what your thoughts are.

Your post 68 in response to 67. It just sounds like you are trying to be cool, shrugging off the accusation, just like you did with the last post. You pop in when people mention you but haven't really been around in between. I figured when I FoS'd you would come on and talk about it. Do you have any thoughts on the game besides you don't like Monkey's responses?

[eektor]

@copper I was thinking Elbirn is mentioned he gets on defends and goes back to lurking, but he did say he was in another game so that might just be coincidental and me being paranoid.

@Elbirn I don't like when people dodge questions too, but do you see that as scum motivated or town? I can see the buddying of acryon with boon, but right now i'm town reading acryon with a null on boon, so I don't think much of it. Also my OMGUS on you was partially because I thought you might have stolen my vote. What do you think of Victor so far?

@Victor nope

[eektor]

If Victor or one of Monkey/Former turn out to be scum, review Elbrin snd Eektor because that's a tvt is sometimes scumcode for my teammate is arguing with a town.

@copper Are you saying if Victor, Monkey or Former is scum, check me and Elbirn or are you saying if Victor is scum check Elbirn and if either Monkey or Former is scum check me?

[eektor]

@copper Ok, that makes sense then.

[eektor]

@Mod

I am having computer problems and will have limited access this weekend.

@Fish The beetlejuice is no longer a thing anymore. Also, the beginning parts of your arguements on monkey was about him not participating in RVS and avoiding your questions. I can follow your thinking which is why I think your town, but those two reasons I don't see as monkey is scum because of that.

@Elbirn According to your definitions I don't town read acryon, I'm leaning town on him. Overall his posts seem town to me. The buddying with boon seems suspicious but I can see his hesistance to lynch boon when he mislynched him twice before. I'm curious where you got the acryon/boon/copper scum team. I understand the link between acryon and boon but not either one of them with copper.

@Monkey What did Elbirn say to make you think copper is scum?

[eektor]

Many people did not respond to my last request.

Please, everyone, lmk how you feel about:

SiX
Victor
Copper
Futan

SiX - a pretty useless slot, lack of participation, hasn't said anything much, very little interaction or trying to figure things out, not much to say. Last post he mentioned that he thinks the Victor vs Copper is either a town-town argument or a town-scum argument. A big post with very little to say in it. If I had to guess alignment, I think he is town though.

Futan - I liked his entrance, but hasn't posted or done much in game. I have a null read on him as he can be either town or scum.

Victor vs Copper - I'm leaning town on copper and scum on victor. I can follow copper's thinking better than I can victor's. I think copper isn't just focused on victor as victor is on copper. I do see a link between Victor and Elbirn, but not for that tvt thing that copper said. It could be because they did play a game recently together.

[eektor]

Also, I find it very odd why Monkey sheeped Elbirn to vote copper. I would think it would make more sense if he agreed with Victor's posts and voted copper because of it. I don't think Elbirn brought anything new to the table when he voted copper as he decided to go along with Victor. Am I the only one that found that odd or did anyone else see that?

[eektor]

If you look at my posting meta, you'll see that I don't wall post, so just because someone is wallposting doesn't mean I think they are more town.

...Okay. But what made you decide to vote for who I was voting for? Was it entirely because you townread me? Have you done any analysis on Copper yourself? All I can recall you saying at the time was "Elbirn seems confident". The only thing I like about any of that is that you spelled my name right, a feat that no one else can manage apparently.

@Elbirn That's not fair. I don't believe I misspelled your name once. Actually I think more people have been calling copper cooper than misspelling your name.

@Monkey Was that comment in reference to my post? If it did, I have no clue what does that have to do with it.

[eektor]

@Fish Is Monkey still your main scum read? What's your thought about voting with him?

[eektor]

@Fish Is Monkey still your main scum read? What's your thought about voting with him?

He is still a scum read for me, and while I am not thrilled with him being on the same wagon there are a few factors that I'm looking at. 1. The lynch hasn't gone through yet, so he could be vote parking on a buddy with the intent to pull off eventually. 2. He sees that today is provably going to end up coming down to VDA and Copper and he is bussing for towncred. 3. Fuck, maybe I'm just tunneling the shit out of a townie and my read is off. None of those reasons worry me enough to not vote where I see scum.

1. We'll see
2. With two equally strong wagons bussing his scum partner is highly unlikely
3. So are you saying copper is your main scum read and monkey could probably be town?

@All I think we need to stop focusing on the whole victor vs copper debate and focus on why people are joining the wagons. Toon fighter hasn't done anything to shake off my scum read, but I really don't like how Monkey joined the wagon. Elbirn said he agrees with Victor and voted for copper. Monkey said he liked Elbirn's play and voted for copper. I don't see a town motivation in doing that.

VOTE: MonkeyMan

[eektor]

@Mod I'm voting Monkey right now, not Victor

@Victor If copper would flip town, who would you think scum would be?

@copper If Victor would flip town, who would you think scum would be?

[eektor]

Fine;

@Toon
@Boonskiis
@Acryon
@Eektor

Justify your votes on me. If you wish to save time, you may link previous posts you've made.

And FWIW if I do get lynched today, FF is one is strongest townreads and it's ludicrous to hold him accountable for my flip.

Why do you think I'm voting for you?

[eektor]

@Mod I'm voting Monkey right now, not Victor

@Victor If copper would flip town, who would you think scum would be?

@copper If Victor would flip town, who would you think scum would be?

@Mod I'm voting Monkey right now, not Victor

@Victor If copper would flip town, who would you think scum would be?

I'd look at Toon Fighter/Acryon/Monkey at this point. Toon has far too comfortable sitting in the background toDay and he's my number two scumread at this point (and frankly Copper's scumflip wouldn't affect that read one iota). Acryon 411 gave the impression of scum looking to push through two lynches in quick succession, so if Copper was town, he is definately someone to look into for that. On the other hand if Copper flips scum it is less likely Acryon would be. As for Monkey, the timing of his vote looks very opportunistic if Copper is town.

I haven't voted for Victor and he even quoted the post I told the mod he had me on the wrong person.

[eektor]

Why do you think I'm voting for you?

Where exactly are you voting for Victor ?

Why lie about that ?

You know for a lurker, you are paying attention to this game far more than some of the others. That post wasn't a lie, I was simply wondering why Victor thought I was voting on him when in fact I wasn't and he even quoted the post.

[eektor]

So Toon agrees with acryon that Victor and copper are scum bussing each other. Monkey wants the other people not on the two leading wagons to join one. This is precisely why I don't want to join either of the two. I'd much rather lynch one of these two people today.

[eektor]

I think you and Victor are town. Monkey is trying to push for any votes on you two because he's scum. Toon basically said you and Victor are scum (putting him in a position to vote for whoever) and if any of you are town then Cheetory is scum (setting up a next possible mislynch which is also coincidentally buddying the IC). I just see more scum motivation in these two than the others.

[eektor]

if any of you are town then Cheetory is scum (setting up a next possible mislynch which is also coincidentally buddying the IC)

No please, do go on. I'd love to hear how I'm doing any of this.

Seriously, I try to dismantle a huge wallwar and actually sort the reasoning/engage the people on it, and apparently that means I'm setting up mislynches.
10/10

Way to skim my post. I didn't say that, here's my post with the parts bolded you need to see.

I think you and Victor are town. Monkey is trying to push for any votes on you two because he's scum.

Toon basically said

you and Victor are scum (putting him in a position to vote for whoever)

and if any of you are town then Cheetory is scum

(setting up a next possible mislynch which is also coincidentally buddying the IC). I just see more scum motivation in these two than the others.

I said:

VIctor more likely to be scum (individually) - this is the most important part, I still believe there is a decent chance Vic's scum.
The analysis continues as such:
(

IF victor == Town:
THEN Cheety's probability of scum ++ (INCREASES)
BUT NOT Copper's probability of scum ++

ELIF Victor == Scum:
THEN Copper's probability of scum ++ (INCREASES)
BUT NOT Cheety's probability of scum ++)

(
AND IF Cheety == Scum:
THEN Victor and/or Copper's probability of scum -- [is reduced])

Hopefully is clearer for everyone

Toon basically said in that part bolded that if victor is town then you are probably scum and copper is probably town.

[eektor]

And the next possible mislynch I was referring to about Toon was yours Cheetory and the buddying with the IC was because Toon posted that after RC mentioned you Cheetory being possible scum

[eektor]

And the next possible mislynch I was referring to about Toon was yours Cheetory and the buddying with the IC was because Toon posted that after RC mentioned you Cheetory being possible scum

Are you implying I am scum?

Yes, you are one of my scum reads.

@Eektor
MonkeyMan576 - 4 (acryon, Formerfish, Elbirn, RadiantCowbells)
MonkeyMan576 - 3 (eektor, Cheetory6, Futan)

If you think Victor and I are town, only Boon, SiX and Toon haven't joined his wagon yet, how does this fit with your scumteam?

So far my two scum reads are Toon and Monkey, not sure about who could be a 3rd. I'm leaning town with SiX, not sure about Boon. I do agree with Boon that the first wagon that formed is different from this one. Perhaps someone from first wagon was an early bussing and would switch to another target later in the day. The first wagon was a bit early in the day. Although fish was the most vocal in that first wagon I find it odd that he is voting with Monkey right now. Acryon's theory that victor vs copper is scum vs scum is a theory that Toon latched onto so maybe that could be a possibility.

It's easier to analyze interactions when you know certain flips, but I do believe you have a better chance of finding scum in Monkey or Toon than victor or copper.

[eektor]

Scratch that part of the last post about Fish. I don't see how Fish could be a scum buddy with Monkey.

[eektor]

Well, Toon switching his vote to Monkey is giving me doubts now. Would love a Toon lynch but I think this is a bit late to go for it.

[eektor]

Then join me on the wagon that Toon isn't on?

I think I'm going to have to review the game again to see for possible scum buddies for Toon.

[eektor]

@copper who are you saying is your scum team? Victor, Toon?

[eektor]

Ah yeah, i thought this Elbirn scum with Victor is kind of new, but I see you've been saying that for a while now.

[eektor]

For me, if I keep with my scum reads on Monkey and Toon, the only way I can make sense of this game is if Victor is their scum buddy with Toon hopping from one to the other. That really doesn't make sense to me. If I truly believe Toon is scum, monkey needs to be town and if I truly believe monkey is scum, toon needs to be town.

[eektor]

@copper Do you really think though that Toon would bus Victor for most of the day and then switch last minute to Monkey. Why not switch earlier to you when you had a wagon on you?

[eektor]

Alright fine, changing my vote

VOTE: Victor

[eektor]

Sorry was busy yesterday watching my Pats take that super bowl win.

+1 Go Pats!

Back to the game, I need to catch up.

[eektor]

I think acryon is looking scummy for the whole Victor vs copper is scum vs scum. I don't think he was expecting a copper flip.

I think Toon is scummy for agreeing with acryon on the whole copper vs victor is scum vs scum. His voting could go either way from Victor to Monkey, makes me think Monkey is probably town.

Elbirn's eagerness to lynch anyone at the end makes me think he is a good fit for a scum buddy with the other two.

Scum team: acryon, toon, and elbirn.

Should have kept my vote on him yesterday, so ...

VOTE: Toon Fighter


Also, Cheetory is looking pretty town to me

[eektor]

I am absolutely, absolutely not in favour of Monkey.

I can't see the flash wagon from copper switching over to Monkey like it did unless they were both != mafia.

Toon I could compromise on, but it's Elbirn I really want. The casual flippancy towards the lynch vis a vis bouncing back and forth between all 3 is glaring at me.

I agree with RC about Monkey.

What's your thoughts on Toon? I think Elbirn and Toon were ready to lynch whoever between Victor and Monkey. Which is why I think both of them are scummy. Toon more because I saw a possible connection to acryon and acryon's theory of victor and copper are both scum is pretty opportunistic now that we know they were both town.

[eektor]

I never said I wa ssure they were scumv scum. In fact, what I did say, is that their alignment was likely the same (2 town or 2 scum). In fact, I think I was the one who first suggested they shared an alignment (page 23, post 562-567), and I changed my opinion on Vic by the end of the day. I also said that Cheeto could the scum there, but in that I was not the first.

@RC: I can agree on that lynch. In fact, my scum team depends on Monkey being scum. If he is town, then Elbirn is the one we should be after

UNVOTE: MonkeyMan VOTE: Elbirn

This post from acryon came before the posts you mentioned saying they shared an alignment.

So the only difference between Copper and Victor is just a slight feeling between the two of them then? How hard are you leaning on this idea that they're both scum?

That's not the only difference. I just was talking about Victor, so I wasn't going into copper's specifics.

I would say I am quite confident that they are both scum, and close to 100% certain at least one is scum. We should lynch Victor and if we have a vig, I would tell them to get copper tonight.

@Cheetory Which between Toon/Elbirn/Acryon is the weakest scum read or the one that doesn't really fit that well together?

[eektor]

Vote: Monkey

Your pushes so far this game have been lackluster, and you are making them on town. I think you are subtly trying to set Cheet up using the same tactic that caused the mislynch on day 1 which is bullshit. I don't see anything protown from your play so far, and no indication that you are going to change. Lynching you will also give us a good idea of what alignment Toon is.

@FF are you saying you think Toon is town?

[eektor]

IC is too strong for 2 scum game, but much too weak to be the only PR in a 3 scum game.

Please tell me if this couldn't possibly be, but could we have 2 scum and a serial killer? Because if there are 3 scum and Toon is scum, then at least one of his partners is bussing him. If you think Elbirn and acryon are scum, who do you think is the 3rd?

[eektor]

I'll settle for Elbirn, because I don't like the people voting with me on Toon and I'm not very happy with the Boon hammer statement.

VOTE: Elbirn

[eektor]

Vote: Monkey

Your pushes so far this game have been lackluster, and you are making them on town.

I think you are subtly trying to set Cheet up using the same tactic that caused the mislynch on day 1 which is bullshit. I don't see anything protown from your play so far, and no indication that you are going to change. Lynching you will also give us a good idea of what alignment Toon is.

@FF are you saying you think Toon is town?

I want to know what you saw in my post to think that I am calling Toon town here. Like I guess if I squint real tight I could see it, but no. I had a better idea of where I was going with the associative tells between those two last night after a few big rum and gingers, but now I'm not sure what I was seeing. Monkey is making a big push on Toon, but he is following some other people. After reading Pie's most recent walls I see that I might be under some confbias towards Monkey. I really hate being ignored in games when I am asking direct questions, and when people act like assholes (see Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkaban re: TSO). I read assholes as scum for some reason. I might need to do a hard reset of my reads because I feel like after Cop flipping town I feel all fucked up.

Look at bold. I know you were talking about Cheetory afterward, but Monkey is pushing and voting for Toon. But you did mention pushes, so I wanted to know whether you thought Toon was town.

[eektor]

@eektor

, do you have any thoughts wrt pie's suspicion on you?

P-Edit: I actually have been kind of thinking similar thoughts with Toon. I've been really struggling with parsing whether he's VI or scum. :/

I thought SiX was town and with pie's catchup post I still think that slot is town. As for his suspicion on me, I don't really know what to say when his main point against me is by PoE I must be scum. I don't think I'm coasting through the game either. I might be a bit quiet but it's mostly because I'm still trying to figure the game out. As of the start of Day 2 I was thinking a possible scum team of Toon, Elbirn, and acryon. Only way that is possible is if Elbirn and acryon are bussing hard their partner for town cred. Since Toon is being read as scummy by most everyone, that could be the case, but I have doubts that I have been biased that Toon is scum for the whole game and then there is the case that I'm town reading the people on Elbirn's wagon except for Toon. I feel confident to say that I believe Cheetory is town and of course RC is town. I'd rather vote with those two than vote Toon with 2 people I think are scum. And if there are 3 scum in the game, it makes me wonder why Elbirn's lynch is looking like it would be much harder to go through than a Toon lynch. Basically there appears to be a better probability that Elbirn is scum than Toon.

[eektor]

Basically there appears to be a better probability that Elbirn is scum than Toon.

what are your thoughts on my reasons for townreading Elbirn?

is the Elbirn scum read based entirely off his end-of-D1 play? I'm looking through your ISO and that's all I can find. if not, why?

Actually from the beginning it looks like you have a pretty weak town read on him. Then you mentioned that you are biased toward reading Elbirn as town because he correctly identified the Victor vs copper as town vs town. What I see later on after he said that was he eventually voted for copper and then ended up voting for Victor. So that point holds no weight for me. Actions speak louder than words and in this case votes hold more weight than what people say in posts.

The analysis with copper and cheetory saying that either one of them is scum or they are both town. I agree that that post Elbirn is coming off as town.

The question about why I followed Elbirn to join Victor's lynch, I don't think is very town. My circumstances were different than his and I definitely didn't follow him. I was thinking Victor could be a better scum buddy for Toon than Monkey. Elbirn was just trying to lynch someone. Even though he thought copper vs victor was town vs town, then thought copper was scum and victor was town and then ended up voting for victor to just lynch someone.

RC's push on Elbirn and his reaction. I agree with you that RC's push was not very good, but I disagree with you on Elbirn's reaction. I didn't like Elbirn's reaction to RC's push.

[eektor]

@Elbirn

1. So what is the weather like where you live?

2. Not much time right now but I can write up a post about you sometime tonight.

[eektor]

@pie From the games I've read, I've seen way more scum act that way when cornered and not so much town.

I feel like anyone not voting Toon right now needs to have a really good reason for doing so.

Also, I think this is a not so subtle defense of Elbirn.

[eektor]

I thought SiX was town and with pie's catchup post I still think that slot is town. As for his suspicion on me, I don't really know what to say when his main point against me is by PoE I must be scum. I don't think I'm coasting through the game either

. I might be a bit quiet but it's mostly because I'm still trying to figure the game out.

As of the start of Day 2 I was thinking a possible scum team of Toon, Elbirn, and acryon. Only way that is possible is if Elbirn and acryon are bussing hard their partner for town cred. Since Toon is being read as scummy by most everyone, that could be the case, but I have doubts that I have been biased that Toon is scum for the whole game and then there is the case that I'm town reading the people on Elbirn's wagon except for Toon.

I feel confident to say that I believe Cheetory is town and of course RC is town. I'd rather vote with those two than vote Toon with 2 people I think are scum.

And if there are 3 scum in the game, it makes me wonder why Elbirn's lynch is looking like it would be much harder to go through than a Toon lynch. Basically there appears to be a better probability that Elbirn is scum than Toon.

Important parts bolded.

1. If you're trying to figure the game out, how is being quiet helping you? I'm reading through your ISO, and I don't really see you making any pushes or scumhunting. You ask lots of questions, but they feel...Idle. Like they don't lead to anything. It's like you might as well have asked about the weather.

2. And once again we get justification for a vote by way of "I'm just sheeping people I think are town, no big deal". RC is conf town, but that does not mean she is right. Cheetory might be town, but we don't know that. Your scum reads might be scum, but once again we don't know that they are. So instead of having any reasoning for a vote, we get what basically amounts to an excuse. Hm.

Why DO you think I'm scum anyway?

1. Do you really think you need to ask questions to get information about someone? I ask questions when needed, if I see something I want to point out, I point it out, and then I like to see other people's interactions to see possible links. For instance, after going through your iso, I noticed a link between you and acryon.

2. My vote on you didn't come from thin air, throughout the game I found you suspicious. I even did mention that I was suspicious of you at the beginning. Just because I turned my attention and vote on others didn't mean I thought you were town, I just felt there were others more suspicious than you. I did say at the beginning of day 2 that I thought the scum team was Toon, Elbirn, and acryon. I voted Toon, then when I saw how the votes ended up I thought you were the best one to vote for, because two scum reads were voting for Toon and one scum read was voting for you. Also, if Toon flips scum it would be harder to find his buddies, but if you flip scum I will push for acryon next.

Why do I think you are scum?

1. Your vote progression in day 1. You started saying Victor vs copper was town vs town, then you thought Victor was right and copper was scum, you voted for copper. Then when the copper wagon wasn't going anywhere you went to Monkey. That's fine, but then you jumped to Victor at the end and tried to rationalize that even though you were sure he was town you would get more information out of his lynch. I don't see any town motivation in that, I see as scum trying to get a lynch through.

2. This deserves a separate point because you really were looking to hammer anyone at the end. I can understand if we are at a deadline but there was still a couple of days to go. It just reeked of overeager scum wanting to lynch someone.

3. There's been twice I've seen people accuse you and you throw up a post of "who cares". That type of behavior I see as coming more from scum who feels like they got caught.

[eektor]

To the 3 people I think who questioned me about the who care's post. These two just reeks of whatever, who cares attitude.

I also agree that Elbirn has been looking quite bad here.

Bye Felicia

[eektor]

I see as scum trying to get a lynch through.

What benefit does hypothetical scumElbirn have in trying to push a lynch through in such a blatant way?

No benefit for a scum Elbirn but something possible for a newb scum. I thought this would be his first scum game, but I just saw he has a completed scum game down. So that might be a moot point.

Uggh

UNVOTE:

Need to rethink this game and go over other ISO's.

[eektor]

@Elbirn If you are town, without naming names (in other words thinking logically) how many scum do you think were on your wagon at the height (4)?

[eektor]

@eektor: You said earlier that given copper-town or Victor-town, chance of Cheety-scum goes up. What made you change your mind in light of

both

Victor and copper flipping town.

That was me paraphrasing what Toon said. I believed in the opposite, that if copper and Victor was town, Cheetory would be more likely to be town, which is one of the reasons why I'm reading him as town.

[eektor]

@eektor

, who you votin for? Who is scum? r u scum?

1. I'm not voting for anyone.

2. I'm not sure right now, my scum reads have pretty much gone out the window. Elbirn's last few posts is making me lean town on him. Toon just seems too scummy to be scum. Almost like he is now a lynchbait for scum. My scum read on acryon was based on his day one victor and copper is scum together and I saw a link with Elbirn, but if I'm leaning town on Elbirn, that weakens my scum read on him. I would like to say there has to be at least one scum between Monkey and Boon, but their playstyle makes it seem like they are lynchbait and I wouldn't want to waste a vote on what I think might be a 50% chance of getting scum. I need to look at Fish again to see if there is anything there as right now I have a null on him.

3. Nope

[eektor]

Why is there scum between Monkey and Boon because of being lynchbait, but Toon is too scummy to be scum?

I didn't say there was scum between Monkey and Boon because of them being lynchbaits. I say there is one mostly because I can't read them and from PoE one of them is scum. Also, the playstyles between Monkey and Boon is different from Toon. A lot of Toon's post are pretty scummy. In day one where he agreed with acryon that there is a good chance that Victor and copper was scum together, but if they were both town, you would be more scummy. That just sounds like he was setting up himself to vote for whoever between Victor and copper and set up multiple possible lynches for Day 2. Also, recently when he asked someone's opinion on who his partners would be if he flips scum. Why would town ever ask something like that?

[eektor]

You're saying why would town ever ask that, but you think he's town?

P-Edit: Sorry to hear that fish.

I'm saying why would town every ask that, but then I think why would scum be that obvious?

[eektor]

Lynch the scummy people please, don't worry about the WIFOM "too scummy to be scum".

You might be right there.

VOTE: ToonFighter

[eektor]

Also, recently when he asked someone's opinion on who his partners would be if he flips scum. Why would town ever ask something like that?

again, I don't like this

I think a lot of people are using TF asking this as an easy thing to take a potshot at, without critically thinking about it. what do you think the scum motivation is in asking that question?

I'm also wondering who you think the scum lining TF up for lynch are, and why you'd get back onto the TF wagon at the request of someone you think is possible scum if you thought scum was lining TF up for lynch.

Where is the town motivation in that? You know you won't flip scum.

Who I think scum is on TF lynch depends greatly on whether TF flips scum or town. This post by you gives me the impression that you know TF will flip town, yet you are voting for him? Why is that?

But to answer your question, the scum setting up TF for a lynch is most likely Monkey and you. That of course is dependent on if Toon flips town. But the reason I went back to TF is what Monkey said reminded me about a guide I read about playing mafia, where it said to lynch all scummy players so that scum will have a hard time hiding.

[eektor]

If you think Monkey and pie are scum, why are you voting me? It seems you are not sure of your vote, and changing after Monkey's suggestion doesn't look good

If you are town, then I would think Monkey and pie are scum. But I'm voting you because I don't think you are town.

[eektor]

Saying that Pie and I are scum if Toon is town doesn't make any sense. Toon is acting scummy. You haven't pointed out any town behavior from toon afaik.

Right, because it makes more sense to say there is no scum on Toon if he is town?

[eektor]

I'm clearly not on the same time zone as you guys. I go to sleep and wake up to 3 pages of posts.

Based on what the mod said I'm going to guess that the other mafia (it can't be just one so 2) wouldn't know that fish was one of them. It kind of makes sense because I couldn't see any connection for a 3 scum team.

Reading on Fish's ISO, I see a push on Monkey for the whole game (Monkey is most likely town now), voting acryon when there was a Toon wagon (leaning town on acryon), and a buddying with Cheetory. I think out of the 3 people voting acryon right now, 2 of them is scum.

VOTE: Cheetory

[eektor]

Did a hunt through FF's ISO.
Hi guys look I'm FF crumbing my role.

I think Cheet is not a killer, at least not last night.

Pretty sure it's clear who he targetted N1.

On second thought that might be why Fish got killed and make Cheetory more town, although I'll say null because it still did seem that Fish was buddying up to him.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Elbirn

[eektor]

I'm clearly not on the same time zone as you guys. I go to sleep and wake up to 3 pages of posts.

Based on what the mod said I'm going to guess that the other mafia (it can't be just one so 2) wouldn't know that fish was one of them. It kind of makes sense because I couldn't see any connection for a 3 scum team.

Reading on Fish's ISO, I see a push on Monkey for the whole game (Monkey is most likely town now), voting acryon when there was a Toon wagon (leaning town on acryon), and a buddying with Cheetory. I think out of the 3 people voting acryon right now, 2 of them is scum.

VOTE: Cheetory

why do you think there are specifically 2 scum on the acryon wagon?

Well, I'm pretty sure there is 2 scum left. If the 2 scum aren't on acryon's wagon, then the only thing I can think of is Boon is scum with one of the ones in acryon's wagon and I can't see a link between Boon and the 3 of you.

[eektor]

@pie if acryon is scum, who would be his scum partner?

[eektor]

Why would scum try to get a buddy lynched when there is an easy town lynch to go after? As far as I was thinking at the end of day 2 was we were probably going to be in lylo today. It just so happens we got lucky with what happened last night. Scum just needed an easy lynch and then try to set themselves up for a mislynch in lylo. I'm not saying that acryon is for sure town, but I'm saying it makes more sense to me that he is town than scum.

FF buddying to Cheetory could have been scum buddying up to town, which is why I unvoted Cheetory.

From your perspective those would be the only two possibilities for acryon scum partner. From my perspective acryon's partner would have to be Boon.

Now if acryon was town, what would be your thoughts on who is scum?

[eektor]

@pie

I unvoted Cheetory because of the crumb he mentioned plus the thought that Fish buddying up with him could actually be scum vs town. So let me see, you want me to bump Cheetory from a null to a town lean, then. Why are you defending Cheetory?

Then you talk about all the ways why FF could vote acryon - scum and say I am oversimplifying things and of course you don't even want to think about the other option which includes all the possibilities in which acryon is town? If you want to show me why acryon scum makes more sense than acryon town, you better show me what you think about acryon - town and why that makes less sense than acryon - scum. Otherwise, I'm content with my vote right now.

[eektor]

@Boon bussing his partners hard when he knows who his partners are, but his partners don't know who he is, would be pretty risky. Is your vote on Cheetory because you think his power crumb was meant to signal to scum that he was a part of them?

[eektor]

@pie

I unvoted Cheetory because of the crumb he mentioned plus the thought that Fish buddying up with him could actually be scum vs town. So let me see, you want me to bump Cheetory from a null to a town lean, then. Why are you defending Cheetory?

so you thought it might be scum v scum and then changed your mind?

it's difficult to follow what you're saying here, considering that's not what you originally said

Then you talk about all the ways why FF could vote acryon - scum and say I am oversimplifying things and of course you don't even want to think about the other option which includes all the possibilities in which acryon is town? If you want to show me why acryon scum makes more sense than acryon town, you better show me what you think about acryon - town and why that makes less sense than acryon - scum. Otherwise, I'm content with my vote right now.

it is not my goal to convince you. it is my goal to scum hunt your thought process

FF not doing any of the reasons I listed off are assumptions you would have to make in order to come to the conclusion you did, namely FF trying to mislynch acryon. I want to know *why* you didn't consider one of those possibilities, or any possibility similar to that, before coming to the conclusion that acryon had to be town as a result of that interaction; since there is a pretty big gap here and for some other reasons that will soon become apparent.

I don't really see you scum hunting, I see you trying to set me up for a mislynch. Why I don't consider your other possibilities because I see acryon town making more sense than acryon - scum. Which you fail to want to address, so I don't see this going anywhere.

[eektor]

I don't really see you scum hunting, I see you trying to set me up for a mislynch. Why I don't consider your other possibilities because I see acryon town making more sense than acryon - scum. Which you fail to want to address, so I don't see this going anywhere.

. . .

jesus fucking christ. *why* do you think acryon-town makes the most sense here? what possibilities were you considering and why did you arrive at that conclusion?

like, you explained you think acryon being set up for a mislynch makes the most sense. ok. I want to know *why* this is the case. just saying "it makes the most sense" without explaining the reason tells me fuck all about the thought process you actually had here. when I first asked this you said it was because you didn't think scum would bus with a mislynch on the table, and I provided a few counterarguments to that point, at which point you never answered (instead just saying again you thought acryon-town made more sense), so.... yay?

I don't understand your frustration. You refused to answer one of my questions and then get upset when I stopped playing with you? Your continued questions at me tell me you want to convince me to vote acryon with you guys, yet you say you are scum hunting and you specifically mentioned you think I'm scum. Shouldn't you try to convince someone else then instead of me? Or do you know I'm town and you need my vote?

Now if you want me to answer your questions, answer the question I asked you before that you blew off and I'll answer yours.

If acryon is town, who do you think scum would be?

[eektor]

listen up fuckwit

I'm sorry this conversation is over. If you want to act like a kid and insult me, I won't stoop to your level.

[eektor]

Actually nevermind. Just realized Boon said he is ok with a lynch on me today, so I;m not going to risk that.

I'm 2-Shot Vig. Used my vig shot first night on Copper (fail), and used my second last night on FF and presumably I double-stacked with scum? Never played with a traitor before so still not 100% sure how that works.

Why did you choose FF to shoot last night?

[eektor]

Actually come to think of it, I think Pie might be scum with Elbirn. If you look at Pie's ISO, she's been completely trying to move votes off of Elbirn while staying under the radar about it. When I had initially pushed Elbirn, Pie was the one trying to say it's "town vs town". And she completely tried derailing any of my pushes towards Elbirn. She's still staying away from the Elbirn wagon. She's trying to start a counter wagon off of her scum buddy.

After Elbirn flips, you're next Pie. GG.

VOTE: Elbirn

I agree with this and the same thing happened on day 2.

[eektor]

on the off chance that Elbirn flips town, then Pie started a counterwagon on his scum buddy who he knew wouldn't get lynched to show some distancing between the two. But that's irrelevant after the Elbirn flip anyways.

@Cheetory - It makes sense. I already felt there was a vig in this game, and not a SK. I just thought you were the vig up until today when I began to scum read you. Seeing as there are 3 PR's on town, I'm assuming that the remaining scum have at least one other PR also, so unless you are a Mafia tracker, I feel your tracker claim mixed in with FF are enough to make you town. And mafia traitor RB'er is pretty strong and have easy fake claims, so I'd imagine that the scum team would have a semi decent PR left. Possibly like Mafia Doctor or something. I have no clue on setup specs and balancing actually...I don't know what else would make sense on this scum team. The main reason I'm taking your claim at face value is because you were waiting for Acryon to claim, and actually pretty much forcing him to before you gave up your tracker. I don't see a reason for you taking that kind of route as scum.

@Eektor - did Pie do that on day 2, also? I'll check it out.

No she didn't start a counterwagon, but as soon as she caught up she pushed Toon hard and then when Elbirn's wagon fell, pseudo voted for acryon.

[eektor]

This is most likely where I leave you guys.

I have pages of analysis that you'll probably end up ignoring so I'll leave it out, but I'm going to leave you with some last thoughts.

Scum ] Elbirn --- Pie - Eek = Monkey = Acryon - Cheeto -- Boonskies ----- Annie [ Town

Are you saying Elbirn is scum and then there is a tie between me and pie as his scum buddy? Is Monkey a null tell? and is Annie you?

[eektor]

Oh, I can see how it can be read that way. Which role would have been more likely to be informed? Why not the tracker?

[eektor]

On phone at work and assume thread will be locked before I can post. I was vanilla town you bunch a smacked asses. see ya post game. Monkey is scum, eektor or boon is the partner.

You haven't been lynched yet.

[eektor]

@pie I don't think I'm a fan of mass claim, but if the definition of role fishing is trying to find the town power roles, a mass claim will definitely find them. I would think in this game scum would be looking for a doctor or some kind of protective role to kill them so they can take out the confirmed town. If acryon is the vig, which I'm inclined to believe since the kills did match his reads, who knows the scum might have taken a shot at the IC and a doctor protected him. Either way I wouldn't base a scum read on that as I have seen town propose mass claims.

[eektor]

...didn't boon just quickhammer me?

You have 4 votes, 5 is needed for the lynch.

[eektor]

@pie If you are talking about your post 929, Intro you talk about you are biased him being town for correctly labeling the Victor vs copper town vs town. He said that at first but then later on moved to copper being scum and then later on voted Victor even though he thought Victor was town. Not a good start for me to town read him.

then you talk about his post 592, yeah that's probably a good one to show he is scum hunting

Then you talk about him posting about me joining the Victor wagon with him. I disagree with that point as I joined the Victor wagon as I had been leaning scum on Victor whereas he joined the Victor wagon thinking Victor was town. Huge difference there.

Then you talked about RC pushing him, which I thought RC push wasn't a good one, but I did get a scum impression from his reaction whereas you thought town.

[eektor]

After everyone is caught up you should post it in a spoiler anyways.
I'll read it.

I'm interested in this too.

I think Elbirn and pie is the scum team that makes the most sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if Boon is scum. I don't think Boon is the best option to lynch today though.

[eektor]

We don't know scum's power. At this point, I'd believe Acryon's claim over Cheetory's, actually. There's definitely some sort of vigilante out there, whereas I guess mafia tracker is still a possibility. I don't think it's dumb for a PR to stay hidden at this point.

Why would a mafia tracker try to set up acryon like how Cheetory did? I would think they would go after someone else and then kill him at night.

@acryon Sorry to hear about it, but I hope you choose to stay.

[eektor]

@eektor: still want your response to this:

@pie If you are talking about your post 929, Intro you talk about you are biased him being town for correctly labeling the Victor vs copper town vs town. He said that at first but then later on moved to copper being scum and then later on voted Victor even though he thought Victor was town. Not a good start for me to town read him.

then you talk about his post 592, yeah that's probably a good one to show he is scum hunting

Then you talk about him posting about me joining the Victor wagon with him. I disagree with that point as I joined the Victor wagon as I had been leaning scum on Victor whereas he joined the Victor wagon thinking Victor was town. Huge difference there.

Then you talked about RC pushing him, which I thought RC push wasn't a good one, but I did get a scum impression from his reaction whereas you thought town.

mm, first things first, I didn't say Elbirn identified it as TvT, I said I liked his stance despite him _not_ identifying it as TvT; it looked genuine even if it was wrong.

which of these points came off as disingenuous to you? also want to know if this affects your read on Elbirn at all since you said you agree 592 was town

Are you saying you don't believe that Elbirn identified the Victor vs copper as town vs town at the beginning? Just because one post sounds town, doesn't make that person town. Scum can make some good townie posts. The only point that seems disingenuous is you saying your impression of him based on the town vs town argument. I read the post seeing you were biased of him being town because he correctly identified the whole Victor vs copper as town vs town. Which is true because I saw him say the same thing at the beginning. Now you are saying you didn't think he correctly identified the whole Victor vs copper as town vs town. Which one is it?

[eektor]

What makes you feel like eektor can't be a thing monkey?

Any questions you have for me? Anything you want me to explain?

[eektor]

Yeah, that crumb would make it sound like he was a power role and mafia would kill him for it.

[eektor]

@Elbirn You say one of your main scum reads in Monkey. Why do you think FF being a traitor would bus Monkey hard throughout the whole game if Monkey was scum?

[eektor]

@Pie right I read that statement as you are biased toward Elbirn being town because he correctly identified Victor vs copper as town vs town. That is why I asked for clarification, did you actually mean that Elbirn didn't think it was town vs town at the beginning?

Also, why would you be disingenuous about defending a scum buddy?

The main problem with you is your reads are messed up. I understand your reads when you thought acryon was scum. Because most likely the scum buddy is not voting for acryon. It makes sense that you would think it was either me or Boon. But I wanted to know what your read was if you thought acryon was town, which you refused to give. Although now I know because now that you think acryon is town you still think me and boon are scum? Yet you don't even question Elbirn your hard town read that was voting for acryon who you think now is town? That makes no sense to me if you are town. Now that your acryon wagon fell apart you are trying hard to get any wagon trying to pull people off of Elbirn.

[eektor]

@Elbirn You say one of your main scum reads in Monkey. Why do you think FF being a traitor would bus Monkey hard throughout the whole game if Monkey was scum?

I could see FF pushing on Scum-Monkey for a couple of reasons. Starting the push, that strong, that early, with little evidence? It's almost tongue in cheek. "Hey team-scum, I know who you arrreee notice me senpaii~~". It's an attention getter. If the lynch ever went through, +towncred for FF. If we accept the probability that NK'ing FF = "recruited" into team scum, getting towncred would be a good first step towards getting NK'd. Furthermore, if the lynch didn't go through and Monkey lived (which, obviously, happened) he's set up his partner with some nice WIFOM.

So, you're saying the main reason you suspect Monkey is scum is because FF was trying to get scum's attention so he could be killed or recruited at night?

[eektor]

Look I'm sorry man, I'm not trying to be a disruption. I really don't want to be the source of anyone having a bad time with this game. Boon is just legitimately spouting nonsense and I can't help calling him out on it. I know it's a childish argument to go "But he started it!", but that's really where I'm at right now.

For what it's worth, I just really thought about it and realized how utterly fucked we are. Because Team-Scum is on my wagon, plus 1 other unknown, plus RC. There's no way any of them will change their votes, scum is scum, unknown is just bad, RC is a deadslot. Even if Acryon replacement votes Boon, we're deadlocked and wind up with a no lynch. This doesn't end any other way but me dying or compromise voting WITH scum to kill my townread. Not happening. So I'm dead.

Moving on to tomorrow, the quartet of nonsense unanimously votes Pie and then scum wins. We really can't win this game.

Are you saying town is in trouble if we lynch you, because if you turn up town, we would all move to lynch pie? If you actually flip town (which I highly doubt), I wouldn't be interested in a pie lynch tomorrow.

[eektor]

@pie I'm not sure how you want me to respond.

@Pie right I read that statement as you are biased toward Elbirn being town because he correctly identified Victor vs copper as town vs town. That is why I asked for clarification, did you actually mean that Elbirn didn't think it was town vs town at the beginning?

that's what I've been saying this whole time, yes. albeit he did say it "might be a town fight" right at the very start of the game, but that didn't matter cos when it actually got serious he decided copper was scum

Also, why would you be disingenuous about defending a scum buddy?

. . . because I would obviously be making it up, and ergo, that should come through in some way in my defense. so if you think it's me defending a partner, you should have an idea of what exactly it is I'm making up, and why it's made up.

The main problem with you is your reads are messed up. I understand your reads when you thought acryon was scum. Because most likely the scum buddy is not voting for acryon. It makes sense that you would think it was either me or Boon. But I wanted to know what your read was if you thought acryon was town, which you refused to give. Although now I know because now that you think acryon is town you still think me and boon are scum? Yet you don't even question Elbirn your hard town read that was voting for acryon who you think now is town? That makes no sense to me if you are town. Now that your acryon wagon fell apart you are trying hard to get any wagon trying to pull people off of Elbirn.

uh.... seriously?

Yes, seriously

I refused to give reads based on if acryon was town because _Cheetory was softing a fucking guilty on acryon_, and I picked up on that. (and, hint hint, when acryon claimed and it became obvious he wasn't scum I did give my updated reads.)

Elbirn voting acryon isn't scummy, again, because _Cheetory was softing a fucking guilty on acryon_. moreover, even if it was, that by itself would be an awful reason for reversing a town read. you're essentially saying I'm scum because I'm not thinking of someone else as scum for one minor point (

You say minor I say major)

despite all the other evidence I'm seeing pointing to them being town. how the fuck does that make any sense?

and yes, I am trying to get a wagon off of my town read and onto my scum read

this is pretty fucking awful, really. I'd like to know exactly *why* you think everything you're pointing out here is actually scummy.

Why would scum not jump on a soft cop claim that someone is guilty when they know they are town? So if you shift to acryon being town, it should cause you to doubt your Elbirn town read. You are too sure Elbirn is town. You are so sure of Elbirn being town, that if we lynch Boon and he flips town, you still wouldn't doubt Elbirn is town.

[eektor]

Why would scum not jump on a soft cop claim that someone is guilty when they know they are town? So if you shift to acryon being town, it should cause you to doubt your Elbirn town read.

there isn't a reason scum wouldn't (save failing to notice). however, the point here is that _there isn't a reason town wouldn't, either_.

it is perfectly reasonable for town to jump on a soft guilty, hence the act of doing so is a null tell. the fact you didn't realize this is (to steal Cheetory's phrase) a shallow analysis of the situation.

You are too sure Elbirn is town. You are so sure of Elbirn being town, that if we lynch Boon and he flips town, you still wouldn't doubt Elbirn is town.

and I still want to know exactly *why* you seem to think this is scummy.

what part of my defense do you feel is unjustified? as I've said countless times, if you have a problem with the way I'm defending Elbirn, you should be able to explain *why* you think I'm making it up or why it's unjustified.

also

@Cheetory:

I realize this was directed at Elbirn, but I can give a quick rundown of my issues with Boon's play if you want. although it'll have to wait until later cos I'm busy p much all of today

Town I would think would be more suspicious than just jump in with any person claiming a guilty.

Why do I think you being so sure of Elbirn is scummy? First of all, as far as I know you don't have a history of playing with him. You aren't saying guys listen this is Elbirn's town game, he isn't scum here. Second, your reasons listed does not warrant such a hard town read (you are acting like he is a confirmed town). Third, this kind of hard town read would make sense if you were a cop and got an innocent from him, but if you were a cop you wouldn't jump in and vote for acryon if Cheetory was soft claiming a cop with a guilty. Also, it would not explain Elbirn's hard town read on you (so much that you are pretty much a confirmed town to him).

Your defense of Elbirn is an exaggeration. You take minor points and exaggerate them to major points where he is literally a confirmed town to you.

[eektor]

So when I flip town, who are you voting for tomorrow?

If you flip town, I would probably push for Boon.

This kinda sucks. I actually started thinking Cheeto was Cop D2. After D1 he was FoS'ing me pretty hard, and Victor's dying words were basically "whoever is investigative, target Elbirn or Acryon". After D1, Cheeto didn't push me at ALL, but he did push Acryon if I'm not mistaken? This gave me the impression that he was cop, he targeted me, and since I came up innocent he moved on to the alternative. D3 he told us to kill Acryon and I correctly interpreted him as implying he had a guilty.

Granted, none of that was actually *right* per se, as Cheeto was supposedly blocked N1 and moved off of me for....I don't know why. And he was a tracker, not a cop. But the point is, I already had a basis for believing a Cheeto cop claim, and when he did claim, I bought it.

That last part there also sucks. Why am I guaranteed scum if Boon flips town?

First of all Cheetory was voting you Day 2 until he moved to acryon. Are you telling me you thought he was a cop that investigated you, went on to vote for you and then decide to switch to acryon? If you are town, why would you think he would be a cop that investigated you and then end up voting for you? Also, I didn't say you were guaranteed scum but in a way I guess you would be by PoE (just like you said if monkey is town I must be scum by PoE). With no counter claims to Cheetory and acryon, they must be town, RC is confirmed town. Which leaves me, you, pie, Monkey, Boon. I know I'm town and if Boon flips town that leaves pie, you, and Monkey. With two scum left, out of that pool of 3, the only thing that would make sense is you and pie.

1. Discrediting a townread based on a lack of meta, and for a player who has a whopping TWO completed games? This sucks. The implication that you need to play a game with a person in order to read them is blatantly false.

2. This is entirely opinion.

3. I don't think you need to be a cop to have a hard townread. Again, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

1. I'm not discrediting a town read, I'm discrediting a hard town read (like I said earlier you are acting like he's confirmed town). Who besides you guys hard town reading each other has a hard town read on either of you guys? Forget about your scum reads, leaving Cheetory, acryon, and RC. None of them are hard town reading either of you guys.

2. Maybe but if it was obvious what about the others?

3. This goes back to your 2nd point and my answer to it.

[eektor]

Well, this game is pretty much a stalemate. Hopefully we get a replacement for acryon soon.

[eektor]

So 1600, how come Monkey's name is green? Is Monkey conftown to you?

@Boon I would like to know this too.

[eektor]

My thoughts on Boonscum have been "he's a very dramatic person as town, so I'd expect his scum game to be equally dramatic" but his meta suggests otherwise.
Honestly, I was surprised to see how elaborate your scumgame was that you linked and part of why I've been so really convinced that the wagon on you might be bad is because your posts have oozed town motivation and it seems like your scumgame does a pretty decent job of faking that.

I'm honestly not that confident in eektor being town anymore. I didn't like that he didn't react to what I was saying q.q

React to what?

[eektor]

Well, so far I'm thinking Monkey is scum, but I do have some questions for Cheetory.

@Cheetory Since your gunsmith, how did you know that acryon visited FF the other night?

[eektor]

Hey guys, I just realized we are in MYLO here. Best option for us I think is to no lynch today.

[eektor]

Saying that is worth an instalynch, eektor.

btw v/la for a few days while I am without a computer

Wow, would love to hear your thought process for that statement.

[eektor]

Ah ok, I checked and saw you didn't claim he visited FF until after he claimed. Which makes sense with what you say now.

[eektor]

I don't think there is any reasons to rush and I want to hear what Boon has to say.

[eektor]

@Monkey - Why do you think Cheetory is scum?

[eektor]

also NL'ing here is essentially shit since it's always going to end with Cheetory dead and no additional info gained

I guess for whoever is town between you, Monkey, and Boon it is pretty easy to know who the scum is. Except Monkey is conviced cheetory is scum and you and Boon are arguing which would be a better scum partner for Monkey. I am rather inclined to believe that the two scum would be pushing the same person to get the final mislynch they need. But perhaps Cheetory messed up their plans for trying to push me for a mislynch today.

@pie I assume you are fine with either a Monkey or Boon lynch today?

Eektor:
Here is Cheetory's vote history:
Day 1: Acryon, Victor, MM576, Elbirn,
Day 2: Elbirn, Acryon
Day 3: Acryon, Boon, Unvote


Aside from the fact that he lied and could very well be scum trying to hide his true night actions, his voting history doesn't seem very townish to me. He's never been on the final lynch, for one, despite how scummy they have been acting. To me, the TF and Elbirn lynches were both very good lynches, the fact that he wasn't on either wagon, despite not really defending either player from my recollection, strikes me as off.

@Monkey If you think Cheetory is scum, how did he know enough to set up acryon in the last day? Who do you think would be cheetory's partner?

[eektor]

@Monkey If you think Cheetory is scum, how did he know enough to set up acryon in the last day? Who do you think would be cheetory's partner?

I don't know what you mean by setting up specifically.

At this point I would say Boon is most likely Cheetory's partner. I don't think you are scum, I know RC isn't scum, I know I am town, that leaves pie or Boon, and based on Elbirn's flip I am guessing Boon right now.[/quote]

If you reread the start of Day 3, you can see he pushed for acryon's lynch trying to get him to claim. How would Cheetory know acryon was a vigilante if he is scum lying about being town. Do you think he just got lucky and found the vigilante?

[eektor]

Eektor is not confirmed town if Cheetory is lying.

You are not confirmed town.

You have no argument, besides going by Cheetory and your words.

If you are town, the fact that I am here and haven't hammered you means I must be confirmed town to you.

[eektor]

Not confirmed town, but more likely town than Cheetory and Boon.

This...

Please tell me that is not you agreeing with him.

[eektor]

@Eektor: Aside from you knowing your role pm, do you think you are confirmed town?/:

If I were you and my role pm was town, I would think that I would be confirmed town for not hammering you. If you don't think I'm confirmed town, then you think I am just trolling. Which I wouldn't do.

Anyways, I'm taking a break.

[eektor]

Well, I'll come clean. I'm a bodyguard. I didn't expect to last past the first night in this game. I've been protecting RC and apparently scum hasn't tried to kill her yet.

[eektor]

What's a full bodyguard? I just know that I can protect whoever and then if they are targeted to be killed that night, I die instead.

No I didn't crumb. I don't think I would ever crumb a protective role. And if scum figured out the protective role was a bodyguard, they only needed to target the IC once, kill me and then next night the IC died. Although I was trying to give the impression that there must be a doctor in play.

[eektor]

Skimming through that is the one I see. I thought I said it one more time, but I need to do a thorough reread. It might have been I thought to say it but I didn't.

a Mafia doc protects mafia at night? Is that even a role for normal games? Also, you imply there are two goons, couldn't there be another power in the two mafia and them not being just goons?

[eektor]

@Cheetory If I was scum it would make sense that you would be my partner except for the fact that I had the chance to hammer Monkey and I didn't. So only way possible for me to be scum is if I was partners with Monkey. If that was the case not sure why I would claim a pr in that situation.

Anyways, I claimed because I didn't think it made much of a difference to the setup as I thought bodyguard isn't that powerful at all. Also, it seemed like we were pretty much going to vote today and I have no problem sacrificing myself at night.

[eektor]

@Monkey Why don't you put your vote on Boon now as Cheet is not an option to get lynched today

[eektor]

@RC why is Boon / Pie not feasible?

[eektor]

@Cheet I say think about it and if you think Monkey is truly scum hammer him tomorrow. I'm curious as to know why Boon / Pie isn't feasible because if that isn't feasible the only option I have is then Monkey / Pie

[eektor]

@Cheet I think Monkey's refusal to vote for pie is pretty bad for a Monkey / Boon scum team in this situation.

[eektor]

@Monkey The fact that Cheet is holding off the hammer means if he was scum he was trolling us and you were better off to persuade the other votes on you than to try to move Cheet's vote off of you. The fact that you still think he's scum and continue to mess with Cheet, makes me think you are just scum messing with all of us. As far as I'm concerned your logic makes no sense for a town.

VOTE: Monkeyman

[eektor]

@RC, Cheet Who do I protect tonight? I'm leaning on protecting Cheet and he sorting out the other two.

[eektor]

If your town, its over we lost.

[eektor]

@Radiant You think a Monkey Cheet scum team makes sense?

[eektor]

@Radiant I got to go but put up why you think a Cheet / Monkey scum team makes sense so I can make my decision of who to protect at night. Of course this could be a moot point if Monkey is actually town.

[eektor]

Well, someone is obviously trolling.

A fish swims into a wall and then yells, "Dam!"

[eektor]

Oh that's good, I saw the picture and was wondering what that had to do with the joke, until I saw the words.

I thought they would locked the thread already. I think the fact that scum isn't here saying gg, means we lynched correctly.

[eektor]

Go figure, just when I thought we did good it ended up being boon and pie. I'm going to go read the other threads and then post up my thoughts. But really town sucked in this game and the worst part was I was on every single mislynch. I think I'm going to sign up for a beginner game after this.

[eektor]

Well played pie, Boon, and FF. You guys played great.

@Cheetory - We should have taken a break and decided today instead of yesterday. I was actually wanting to go for a pie lynch but at that point I thought Monkey and pie had to be the scum team, but pie would have been the safer bet as I thought the other possibility was pie and Boon.

@Monkey - I was wary of Cheetory possibly being scum, but looking back every situation I could think of made no sense from a scum perspective and only pointed to him being town. I tried to see why you thought Cheetory was scum, but couldn't see the reasoning. You saying pie was obvious town when in your shoes you should have been at least wary of pie because the pie / Boon scum team would make more sense than Cheetory being scum.

@RC - Explaining your reads would have been helpful. You were the only confirmed town and instead of trying to work with the other town, you were focused on pushing your agenda on everyone else. This made it very frustrating for me as town and I'm sure the other townies as well.

@pie - no hard feelings and it's all good. The whole arguing, I didn't really want to argue with you because I thought you were scum trying to do a mislynch on me. But wow, I didn't even vote for you once and I even went after Elbirn instead of you. I got a lot to learn in this game.

@Elbirn - sorry for mislynching you. I thought with pie defending you so hard and your reasons for why pie was obv town was kind of lacking meant you were scum. I guess now that I think of it, it would have made more sense the other way around.

@Boon - Well played, I will definitely be up to lynching you much earlier in the next game I play with you.

@acryon - Town MVP, the only town that actually got something right and killed the traitor even though we gave you tons of crap over the Victor vs copper scum vs scum read.

@Everyone else It was a pleasure playing with you guys. I'll try to get better so I won't be that bad of a townie next time.

Playing bodyguard was interesting. I was trying to lay low, but really I thought I was going to be dead if not the first night, the second night. I think it's pretty weird for a bodyguard to last the whole game when there was an IC to protect. I guess this wasn't your average game.

Oh and last but not least (actually the most important). Thanks Flames for modding the game. I enjoyed it.

[eektor]

@ Copper thanks copper. First day I was town reading you and possibly after Victor's flip. I think my biggest problem was I sheeped RC a lot during the game as she was a confirmed town and I really should have pushed for pie instead of Elbirn. Also, yeah I should have slept it over before voting Monkey. I think now I should have definitely pushed the no lynch harder and I probably should have claimed when I did mention the no lynch. Elbirn and pie had the right idea to win the game for town, but I didn't see it.

[eektor]

Hmm, I'll have to remember that next time I get scum.