Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over


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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:13 pm

Post by Derangement »

In post 1013, onion wrote:i'm really glad the tripod flipped town because i would have felt really bad about discounting his terrible behavior only to have him be scum. i'd have to lynch every anti-town for the rest of my life.

While it was obviously not the case in this game, there's no such thing as too scummy to be scum.
People have different playstyles. Sometimes they'll look mega-town, sometimes they look like the poster boy for scummyness.

The important part is looking past the formulaic "information is good, risks are bad", and trying to figure out
why
those players are doing what they're doing. :]
What did they hope to accomplish? Do their actions make sense, given their responses, or is the mouth saying one thing, while the hands do something else?

Yes, there are things that are much more likely to come from scum than they are from town, and vice-versa. Quickhammers, bad claims, rolefishing...
But WIFOM is a thing, and sometimes scum
will
do something bad for their own health, if they think they can confuse everyone in the process, or even come out on top, because "scum wouldn't do that".

In post 1013, onion wrote:
Derangement is alive, he's suspicious primarliy because if i were scum i would have killed him long before i killed anyone else other htan maybe equinox. tripod was too scummy to be scum, and derangement is too town to not have been night killed.


The GIF night-kill was unexpected.
The Equinox NK boggled me a lot, and strikes me as something designed to not shake things up too much, more than eliminating bigger threats.
It bothers me a little that you townread equinox that strongly, given the direction he was headed in, particularly as of late day 2.

UT's is the first kill that did not surprise me.
Given your opionion of his play since the beginning, I expected to die before he did, if you're town, but I can understand it if scum were afraid the tracking result would make lynching him too hard.

Unfortunately, there's nothing I can say about the too-town-to-live argument regarding myself.

This nearly happened to me in .
I looked very town, my reads were repeatedly wrong, and I nearly made it into LyLo, where I would probably have been mislynched if I hadn't been killed the night before.
I believe the only reason that this didn't happen back then was because the one surviving scum player was fairly less suspicious-looking than the other two town, and NKing me meant he could take a low-risk victory mislynch.

In post 1013, onion wrote:
GC is alive, he's awesome. i really liked bubs, and sns was so terrible that i can't really use his tells to be useful with bubs or GC tells, and GC came in with amazing power, and i really like both him and his slot.

Do you think his case on you was awesome?
Do you also agree with the arguments he presented in the
second
half of day three? Which ones did you find the most convincing? :wink:
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:10 pm

Post by prawneater »

Who should I vote for guys?
You're not a real lawyer.
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Post Post #1027 (ISO) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:14 pm

Post by Derangement »

In post 1026, prawneater wrote:Who should I vote for guys?

...what? :o
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Post Post #1028 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:38 am

Post by Green Crayons »

There are a lot of words that I should respond to when I have energy to do so.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1029 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:41 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Day Four, Vote Count #2


~ Nobody ~

With
5
alive it takes
3
to lynch and
2
to lynch at deadline. Deadline is
April 24, 2015 at 6:40 PM PST
.

Not Voting - 5 - ChannelDelibird, Derangement, Green Crayons, onion, prawneater

ChannelDelibird has been prodded, though I am aware of his V/LA status. No replacements have been forthcoming. The deadline is likely to be extended under these circumstances.
"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."
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Post Post #1030 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:50 am

Post by onion »

vote for yourself
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Post Post #1031 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:32 am

Post by onion »

this inactivity is dumb, but i'm pretty much over it. lets just lynch either derangement or prawn and see if we lose. i mean that's what's going to happen anyway in a few days, and we all suck too much to post useful content.

GC already expressed his willingness to vote for prawn or derangement. I want the CDB to say it too, then we can just do it and see what happens.

i suppose i could just vote. i don't see us lynching someone else today, and i don't see any arguments happening either due to inactivity. lets just lynch and end it.

i guess i'll vote for prawn because derangement is so fun. i really like him, he plays fantastically, and i'd love to be in more games with him. he just happens to probably be scum this game. Prawn is lurky and scummy. i'd much rather lose to derangement than lose to prawn.

VOTE: Prawneater
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Post Post #1032 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:45 am

Post by Derangement »

What are you doing, Onion?
I get that you'd like to lynch him, but this is just taking an unnecessary risk! :eek:

There's still several days until deadline, and we're likely to get an extension, due to CDB's V/LA.
Can I please please
please
ask you to unvote, until three people are okay with that lynch?

I am personally
not
okay with it, until I hear more from both CDB and Prawneater.
Way too easy to make a mistake that would cost us the game. :neutral:
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Post Post #1033 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:06 am

Post by onion »

i don't even care anymore, and its not like CBD is actually going to post anything useful, and its not like i actually care what prawn is going to say.
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Post Post #1034 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:02 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Hunh.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1035 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:03 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Well, I was actually thinking prawn + Derangement.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1036 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:04 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Which would potentially explain why Derangement didn't vote.

If not prawn + Derangement, I was thinking prawn + CDB was more likely than Derangement + CDB.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1037 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:10 am

Post by Derangement »

Please don't be an Onion.
In the off case that I'm wrong about you being scum, I urge you to at the very least wait for CDB's input before you vote. :(

Prawn isn't going anywhere until he posts, either way, unless he self-hanmers.
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Post Post #1038 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:12 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Sorry. I think it's prawn + Derangement.

VOTE: prawn
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1039 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:12 am

Post by Derangement »

VOTE: prawneater
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Post Post #1040 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:13 am

Post by Derangement »

Good game, everyone.
Sorry for being lying scum. :P
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Post Post #1041 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:28 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Well.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1042 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:30 am

Post by onion »

whoah, that happened.

sorry derangement, you are good people. GC too, i also really enjoyed playing with Equinox. see yall in another game sometime.
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Post Post #1043 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:43 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

man, should have gone for the Derangement wagon when I first scumread him
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Post Post #1044 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:12 am

Post by onion »

i'm a freaking bodyguard, and i've been trying to die the entire time, but it just wouldn't happen. was protecting derangement. i probably should have protected tripod the night he died, but i didn't because i'm dumb.
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Post Post #1045 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:14 am

Post by onion »

also for a long time everyone was going on about some early town-tell from me, but for the life of me i don't know what it is. care to enlighten me?
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Post Post #1046 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:15 am

Post by onion »

ALSO i'm disturbed about the existence of the too-pro-town scumtell. why is that a thing?
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Post Post #1047 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:15 am

Post by onion »

also i'm drunk
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Post Post #1048 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:19 am

Post by Green Crayons »

In post 1046, onion wrote:ALSO i'm disturbed about the existence of the too-pro-town scumtell. why is that a thing?

What are you referring to?
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #1049 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:07 pm

Post by Derangement »

In post 1045, onion wrote:also for a long time everyone was going on about some early town-tell from me, but for the life of me i don't know what it is. care to enlighten me?

You told us your drunk roomie walked in, you told him the basics of Mafia, and that you were looking for scum.
He guessed three people at random.

This is a town-tell exactly because I did not think you understood why it was one, so you wouldn't make something like this up as scum.

Basically, if you were scum, you wouldn't have been looking for scum, so your roomie wouldn't have made a random guess for you to post about in the first place. ;)


In post 1046, onion wrote:ALSO i'm disturbed about the existence of the too-pro-town scumtell. why is that a thing?


Rule of thumb, it's good for town to have players around offering useful analysis and advice to each other, to better everyone's reads.
It's good for scum if those players die, so those that are left alive are not as active, don't notice key things as often, don't put together as good arguments, or whose reads are simply wrong.

So when a seemingly town-looking player survives for way too long, this surprises people.
Why
didn't
scum kill them?

The obvious reason is that maybe they can't: this "town" player is actually scum, but there's only one scum faction. :)
The alternative is a less likely one: that scum would be making a bit of a gambit and playing the WIFOM game: since there's no reason for a seemingly pro-town player to survive that long, they could try keeping them alive, and let town lynch them instead (bypassing docs, bodyguards, and watchers, and profiting from any incorrect reads in the meantime).
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