Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Dwlee99]

I hope you will understand I am on vacation right now and mafia isn't my first priority, I am around to talk to people in my games but going through and rereading the thread and trying to make connections to things isn't for me this week (don't like rereading anyway cause I don't really get much out of it but oh well).
My thoughts on the game rn are mainly math blade town. I feel that their frustration to the pushes on them is a town frustration. Titus can't read me like always so she could be doing that or be trying to mislynch me. In regards to (magna?) saying my callout of the hammer was bad, the hammer was bad because it was random when we still had some time for me to talk more (I declared intent but was planning on waiting at least a day) and their reasons for it seemed kind of bad. I think if the hammer was scum that means Titus is scum because I remember very clearly in cyberpunk where Titus wanted me to derp hammer diamondsentinel with a sheep vote so I can see her directing that her as well. The uncounterclaimed investigative is interesting, mass claim might be good since we are well in the game at this point. That is where I'm at right now

This is my thought post

[Titus]

Every single fucking post...

Like Karnos is trying to draw people in and get them to contribute. That is the best sample.

[Titus]

I hope you will understand I am on vacation right now and mafia isn't my first priority, I am around to talk to people in my games but going through and rereading the thread and trying to make connections to things isn't for me this week (don't like rereading anyway cause I don't really get much out of it but oh well).
My thoughts on the game rn are mainly math blade town. I feel that their frustration to the pushes on them is a town frustration. Titus can't read me like always so she could be doing that or be trying to mislynch me. In regards to (magna?) saying my callout of the hammer was bad, the hammer was bad because it was random when we still had some time for me to talk more (I declared intent but was planning on waiting at least a day) and their reasons for it seemed kind of bad. I think if the hammer was scum that means Titus is scum because I remember very clearly in cyberpunk where Titus wanted me to derp hammer diamondsentinel with a sheep vote so I can see her directing that her as well. The uncounterclaimed investigative is interesting, mass claim might be good since we are well in the game at this point. That is where I'm at right now

This isn't a thought post. This is narrative crafting protect me from Titus posting.

Call me when you have reads to discuss.

[Dwlee99]

Karnos makes sense with titus, math.

Die.

P.s. Try and fight me. You'll lose.

me losing doesn't make you any less scum tho
Then I can say post game "I tried to lynch Titus but no one listened wahhh"

[Dwlee99]

I hope you will understand I am on vacation right now and mafia isn't my first priority, I am around to talk to people in my games but going through and rereading the thread and trying to make connections to things isn't for me this week (don't like rereading anyway cause I don't really get much out of it but oh well).
My thoughts on the game rn are mainly math blade town. I feel that their frustration to the pushes on them is a town frustration. Titus can't read me like always so she could be doing that or be trying to mislynch me. In regards to (magna?) saying my callout of the hammer was bad, the hammer was bad because it was random when we still had some time for me to talk more (I declared intent but was planning on waiting at least a day) and their reasons for it seemed kind of bad. I think if the hammer was scum that means Titus is scum because I remember very clearly in cyberpunk where Titus wanted me to derp hammer diamondsentinel with a sheep vote so I can see her directing that her as well. The uncounterclaimed investigative is interesting, mass claim might be good since we are well in the game at this point. That is where I'm at right now

This isn't a thought post. This is narrative crafting protect me from Titus posting.

Call me when you have reads to discuss.

Zzz
Math blade town
U / Karnos are a possible scum pairing

[Titus]

Karnos makes sense with titus, math.

Die.

P.s. Try and fight me. You'll lose.

me losing doesn't make you any less scum tho
Then I can say post game "I tried to lynch Titus but no one listened wahhh"

And then you'll have to put up with the facepalms or you tried hard as scum and lost.

[Dwlee99]

That post may have convinced me

[Titus]

Convinced you of what?

[Dwlee99]

Same

[Dwlee99]

Firebringer (replaces The Bulge (replaces Chumba))
MathBlade (replaces Snork)
MagnaofIllusion (replaces species)
Saru
MechaGoomba
Titus (replaces Kappy)
Dwlee99 (replaces Persivul)
Masquerade (replaces Mizzytastic)
karnos
Is this living player list accurate

[GreyICE]

Official Vote Count

MathBlade

(2): karnos, Saru

Dwlee99

(2): MagnaofIllusion, Titus

karnos

(1): MathBlade

Not Voting

(4): Masquerade, Firebringer, MechaGoomba, Dwlee99

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-07-26 15:59:52)

[Titus]

@Dwlee, huh?

[karnos]

I'm trying to re-read with fresh eyes to make sure I am not tunneling too much. On the assumption that MathBlade is town, who would be scum?

If MathBlade is town, there was a clear opportunity for scum to hammer yesterday while he was L-1.

karnos

,

Saru

,

Magna

, &

Masq

were on the wagon. I personally know two of those are town, so that implies a couple things. At 1426 Masq puts MathBlade at L-1. At 1435 Magna unvotes, putting MathBlade at L-2. 12:26pm to 2:06pm on July 12th.

The only active poster during that period who wasn't already on the wagon was Titus. So scum Titus could have easily hammered town and pushed us into lylo. If MathBlade is town, Titus probably is town as well. OTOH, who was absent from the thread during that period, and could still be scum?

Dwlee, Firebringer, Mecha. Potentially Magna & Saru could be scum already on the wagon.

Another thing I noticed: Mecha was voting Titus prior to this occurrence. Mecha has also been reading MathBlade as town. But as above shows, Town!MathBlade strongly implies that Titus is also town. The obvious implication being that there is no reason for town!Mecha to vote Titus while he is reading MathBlade as town. I'm just trying to figure out if town!Mecha realized his error, or if scum!Mecha realized the flaw in his reads.

If Mecha is indeed town, that leaves the scum pool as Dwlee, Firebringer, Magna, Saru. Assuming we still have a misslynch before lylo, we could simply lynch the entire pool and win. But this is all riding on the theory that MathBlade is town, which I'm absolutely not ready to commit to.

[karnos]

1436 Dwlee enters the thread, the post after Magna's unvote. I don't like his post for obvious reasons. It also seems very out of place- nobody mentioned lynching a cop or lynching me on that page. Now, out of a hundred possible worlds maybe town!Dwlee got confused and made that post without quoting whatever he was really responding to, but I think it's much more likely a frustrated scum post.

He came into the thread and realized if he was a couple hours sooner he could have hammered MathBlade and pushed the game into LYLO.

This was followed up by a 1438 in which he says "My thoughts on the game rn are mainly math blade town." Why come in just as the wagon is dissolving to say that? It just seems weird to me, why wasn't he posting earlier when math was actually at L-1?

I also find it interesting how he suddenly became very active while apparently on V/LA.

[karnos]

Another: 1504 Dwlee says MathBlade is town, but Titus and I are scum.

As I showed above, scum!Titus could have hammered town!MathBlade. Dwlee's logic doesn't make sense. I am not convinced MathBlade is town, but if she is Titus can't be scum.

[MathBlade]

@Mecha. --

Actually, I want to

VOTE: Magna

If Wingback was a threat to anyone, it was Magna.

Off topic -- What happened to this huh? Ever gonna fucking explain? I can understand misplaced shade on me based on Wingback's post but where do you get Magna?

Why, thanks for asking! Wingbacks iso. Check it.

If I had to pick one post Mecha this would be it. I have reread Wingback's ISO more times than I can count trying to find where and why Masquerade votes Magna here. The biggest thing they left was Dierfire was scum. Yes, they provided cases but why would Masquerade say just check Wingback's ISO. Something seems fishy that they are lazy when they vote me but then never give an argument. They did the same thing with Magna. Yet they give reasons on Quibixes?

Something seems horribly off there. Why are they only making efforts on explaining reads about certain players?

For Quibixes it would be 175 -- It feels fake. Especially the words "now that I think about it". It invalidates everything they said in the prior part of the post as they were not thinking about it. The juxtaposition/word choice feels like some strategic move here. If Karnos is town (which is a really difficult pill to swallow) then I would go over their entire ISO again looking for things that give that same strategic vibe.

At the same time I don't see them as scum together. Masquerade v Quibixes (for the short time it was) felt wrong and I never understood why Masquerade moved their vote. Gut read would be you're probably right on the apathetic town read.

Furthermore I can see a Masquerade Magna team more so than Quibixes Magna. I think Magna is doing a delayed OMGUS here. Maybe Firebringer's slot in the mix. I really don't like how Firebringer is coasting here. Their recent post is they could vote Magna for voting their town read. Why aren't they posting something resembling an argument?

I still think Dierfire is sketchy but nowhere near as sketchy as Wingback's ISO makes them out to be. I also think Karnos is scum but you asked me not to mention Karnos.

My would lynch pool is {Magna, Masquerade, Firebringer, Quibixes, Titus/Kappy slot (for inactivity depending upon Titus's play this may change)}
Sketchy and needs lots of pokes but bigger fish to poke {Dierfire}
Town reads are {Mecha, Saru, Persivul}

My shut the fuck up about pile is {Karnos}

VOTE: MagnaOfIllusions

More on this in a bit.

Anyway, for bloodthirsty players like Mecha and qubixes, why not use this time to be productive? If I am scum, who are my scum partners?

I'm really curious to see what you think, seeing what you think prior to my flip is much more valuable from a town perspective. If I'm going down, I'd like to take at least one scum with me.

510 was mentioned in the prior post. For complaining about people not wanting to read you sure don't either.

Taking scum with you is a vengeful crumb. He doesn't say that he'd like to catch scum or point them out. No. He says take them with me. The only way that happens is if Karnos is vengeful. Hence this post is a vengeful crumb.


@Masquerade -- Magna says the post doesn't exist. My read of Johnny says that he is town especially with how the wagon moved off of Karnos. The Johnny wagon eeks of desperation by scum to not lynch Karnos.

Already did. Determined not to read aren't you?

VOTE: MagnaOfIllusions

@Saru -- You really need to look at D1 beginning of D2. Outright ignoring a player after they poke and explain multiple times is pretty shitty. It is whether that shittiness comes from town or scum and right now we have to lynch Karnos.

[Masquerade]

No Math. I wa pushing Karnos yesterday and you wouldn't jump on because you thought I was scum too so you'd rather not lynch scum then lynch scum pushed by a scumread?
Can we just vote this scum?

[Masquerade]

No Math. I wa pushing Karnos yesterday and you wouldn't jump on because you thought I was scum too so you'd rather not lynch scum than lynch scum pushed by a scumread?
Can we just vote this scum?

ebwor

[Titus]

Hey Math is still voting that shitty Karnos scumread. There's nothing stopping you from going full derp town.

[MechaGoomba]

I'm just trying to figure out if town!Mecha realized his error, or if scum!Mecha realized the flaw in his reads.

Town!Mecha never noticed this at all but his read in Titus was flagging for other reasons. Town!Mecha thanks you for putting the nail in the coffin.

Titus/karnos/Masq is my favorite surprisingly plausible scumteam theory that is still definitely not true.

As stated before, I don't really scumread Titus. My read was about half annoyance at not seeing a clear progression of reads and half annoyance at being targeted. Neither of those is really valid.
Dwlee is looking incredibly weird right now. If he reads Math as town, could he not have said something about that before Magna, the primary pusher of the Math wagon, hopped off?
I also feel like Persivul's fall into inactivity was really suspect. It seems like he made one big effort as an attempt to get towncred, then just coasted by on theory discussion.
Magna's been bothering me for reasons I can't articulate, but I'm fairly certain a good portion of that is just that he rubs me the wrong way. I'll have to reread to be certain about him.

VOTE: Dwlee99
What were you doing when Math, your primary townread, was almost lynched? Because that wouldn't involve rereading, just posting.
Give me a hypothetical 3-player scumteam and a 1-sentence explanation of why you read each person in it as scum, please.

PE: Masq, you have made a good case for why Math's reasoning for pushing karnos is bad. You have made it clear that Math is being inconsistent in her positions, that everything she says revolves around karnos being scum, that all other reads are subordinate to it.
You have failed to make a case for why this is Math being scum and not just Math being wrong.
Because I tell you right now, I see no reason for Math to tunnel a universal townread to the point where everyone scumreads Math for it when they could just NK karnos.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Saru

– I’ve read and digested your response on Mecha. My reaction is – meh. In understand where you are coming from but think your stance relies on elements that don’t always hold true like scum always playing optimally when that isn’t necessarily the case. Also I think you undercut your own arguments with lines like this –

Sure, if one scum-buddy was dead at this point, I can see why scum!Mecha would want to defend scum!Math so hard. But that's not the case. Right now, the scum have the advantage. Why would they throw that out?

You are answering your own question – scum have “the advantage” and not losing a member is the number 1 way to maintain that position. As it stands your position is that scum would distance from each other and risk losing a member (while being obvious about said distancing which dooms the other members) not defending to prevent losing a member (while being obvious about said defending which dooms the other members). One of these paths makes it easier to lynch scum today and one doesn’t and I’m not sure why you lean towards the option that makes it easier for Town overall.

The only hiccup is if my Math read has been wrong and she’s just a terrible player who spams the thread with Ad Homenium as Town. In that case I’m avoiding her like the plague going forward.

Also, why do you think Magna is scum?

The answer is OMGUS Saru.

Firebringer replaced Chumba’s slot. He’s probably scum. Re-reading the game reminded me how scummy Chumba’s Day 1 park of his vote for bad reasons was. The subsequent lack of content from both replacements let them fade into the background ...

Apparently I am in everyones scum list now.

WOOT!!!

I am going to LYLO guys!

This needs rope.

What do you want to hear from me about?
I think Titus is town, and I am unsure about almost everyone else.

And this is why.

Also 1467 is trying way too hard to present himself as “uniformed Townie” when he is WAY too experienced to not understand where the game stands. This is a Mini with no indication of multiple kills. 9 players alive is NEVER LYLO.

--

Go read my 1419 and look at what Mecha chooses to address in 1423. Note that I’m supposedly a scum-read for him. Yet he absolutely drops the points about his “CounterWagon” argument and his selective quoting being scummy hoping that I will just let them go.

I hope you will understand I am on vacation right now and mafia isn't my first priority, I am around to talk to people in my games but going through and rereading the thread and trying to make connections to things isn't for me this week (don't like rereading anyway cause I don't really get much out of it but oh well).
My thoughts on the game rn are mainly math blade town. I feel that their frustration to the pushes on them is a town frustration. Titus can't read me like always so she could be doing that or be trying to mislynch me. In regards to (magna?) saying my callout of the hammer was bad, the hammer was bad because it was random when we still had some time for me to talk more (I declared intent but was planning on waiting at least a day) and their reasons for it seemed kind of bad. I think if the hammer was scum that means Titus is scum because I remember very clearly in cyberpunk where Titus wanted me to derp hammer diamondsentinel with a sheep vote so I can see her directing that her as well. The uncounterclaimed investigative is interesting, mass claim might be good since we are well in the game at this point. That is where I'm at right now

So let’s see what we have here …

1. I’m on vacation and actually reading isn’t a priority – well if that is the case why did you replace or why didn’t you read before your vacation?
2. I don’t quite understand your logic of “you want more time to talk” given all your talking seems to this point seems to have resolved down to one Town read and maybe some scum reads that are all conditional and thus very useful.
3. Reading Math as Town for frustration is stupid. Sorry, it just is. Scum easily get frustrated especially if their mislynch pushes are ignored by Town and they are getting correctly called scum.

That’s pretty much not trying to solve the game which is what I expect to see from scum-Dwlee.

O just don't feel like putting in an effort anymore. When I do my reads are wrong. And Karnos confirmed me. So whatever. Just don't lynch me.

Ok I'd like to talk about Kapy just jumping on me when I knew about scum daychat and I also want to talk about Mecha acting awkward around it as if he was asking what others thought before he was jumping. I brought this up before. I want some serious responses. If you don;t believe I'm a vt you can lynch me or Karnos, otherwise start talking to me.

Stop throwing a temper tantrum then. Seriously it is 100% your job to be engaged in the game.

On that issue – Mecha is scummier than Kappy in my mind. Mecha’s play around that issue reads much like tentative probing to see what traction that angle would get which I expect to see from scum who knows there is daychat but doesn’t expect Town to (not reading the rules for context because they don’t have to as the informed minority). Kappy’s jump on it feels much more to me of Town taking the bait on that fishing expedietion.

I don't know, but why would Persivul replace out as scum? I kinda see his replace out as frustrated town that just doesn't want to deal anymore.

This is NAI . Scum Pers could have personal history with Titus (who he sited in his replace out) that renders him unwilling to push throught the game if Titus is Town. Likewise Town Pers could be frustrated but I have seen Pers in the past as Town not react in that manner. If you are Town-reading Pers for other points that’s fine but the replace out is NAI and should never be used to help you make a read.

[Saru]

@Saru

– I’ve read and digested your response on Mecha. My reaction is – meh. In understand where you are coming from but think your stance relies on elements that don’t always hold true like scum always playing optimally when that isn’t necessarily the case.

Then can you point me to places where scum!Mecha hasn't been playing optimally? Your reaction isn't convincing me of anything.

You are answering your own question – scum have “the advantage” and not losing a member is the number 1 way to maintain that position.

My point is that "the advantage" comes from being able to bus your partner since all of them are still alive. If scum!Math is getting shit on by the town, scum!Mecha would have no reason not to just bus her. Losing her wouldn't be the end of the world for scum, and it would allow him to fly under the radar. By protecting her, he's taking/has taken on too much suspicion from people like you. I would argue that scum!Mecha would be smarter than that, but that's just a personal read.

Town!Mecha never noticed this at all but his read in Titus was flagging for other reasons. Town!Mecha thanks you for putting the nail in the coffin.
Titus/karnos/Masq is my favorite surprisingly plausible scumteam theory that is still definitely not true.
Magna's been bothering me for reasons I can't articulate, but I'm fairly certain a good portion of that is just that he rubs me the wrong way. I'll have to reread to be certain about him.

@Magna - Posts like this from Mecha is why I town read him. Just look at the amount of flip flopping that is going on here. He's covering such a wide array of players with so many different reads in such a short amount of time. This is paranoid town 101.

[Titus]

Or math is town.

[Titus]

Thoughts on Dwlee/Pers, Saru?

[Masquerade]

UNVOTE:

I'll just sheep. There are too many walls and I cannot process that information. I will not be able to play decently as long as people (mostly math and magna) keep posting huge walls instead of being more to the point. I'm done.