Open 643: Kill All Townies! (Game Over)

[karnos]

VOTE: Almost50

Almost 50% chance this guy is scum.

[karnos]

UNVOTE:

I just realized nobody is picking on the new guy.

VOTE: DixC

Hi Dixy! Welcome to these forums!

[karnos]

How did you know he's new? Scum slip of information much.

I told him to signup. Where do I collect my $100 incentive for bringing a new player over?

[karnos]

Explain these lists, please.

The names at the top of the lists are winners, the names at the bottom are losers.

[karnos]

Scum are going to scum hunt this game, if they want to win. Being detail oriented has payoffs for everyone.

[karnos]

I think Jae is scum and Creature could be Scum as well.

Why? What posts, specifically?

[karnos]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

The noise:content ratio is off the charts. Just looking at his iso, it's either baseless unsupported claims or self-defense.

[karnos]

L-2 btw.

[karnos]

KuroiXHF, Ranger, JaeReed, Charloux, Bellaphant, House, Karnos, ChipButty

The wagon. At some point everyone here except for Ranger has been scum read. Charloux probably has the most scum reads, and for good reason imo. I'm thinking Chip leans town due to the fake hammer incident as a genuine form of scum hunting, but he didn't follow it up with much for what I would have expected a strong town to do. Everyone from Jaereed to Karnos are good lynch targets. So out of 5 players, I'd wager there's at most 2-3 townies amongst them. In order of preference for lynch I'd put them as:
Jaereed
Charloux
House
Karnos
Bellaphant.

I'm confused, what are you talking about when you say "I'm thinking Chip leans town due to the fake hammer incident as a genuine form of scum hunting"? It was House who did the fake hammer.

And I'm not sure I would be confident LQ is town yet. I've seen enough scum continue to fake after hammer, and in this case the delay was long enough it could have been a rehearsed response. I think it's unlikely that more than 1 scum of each faction was on the wagon, so 1 or maybe 2 scum. If LQ is scum, the L-1 vote could be a partner busing, that would be Chip, but Chip also provided a lot of initial fuel for the lynch when busing wouldn't be as likely, so scratch that. Except... immediately after the "hammer", LQ says something about how Chip is town but wrong- more bus theory evidence? I think the idea is too tinfoil, but crazier things do happen occasionally. Obviously all of the above is only relevant if LQ is scum.

Anyway, I don't know if LQ is town or not for sure. I don't think there was more than 1, maybe 2 scum on his wagon, which would be 12.5% to 25% of the wagon- which is a worse chance than just randomly picking a scum out from the list of all unknown players 6/16, or 37.5% chance of randomly hitting scum by simply lynching a random player.

But why pick randomly when there are better methods?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8021473

Scum iso. If LQ is town, this is obvious trying for town cred by opposing the wagon before it goes through.

VOTE: creature

[karnos]

@Karnos,
I might have mixed up names somewhere along the line. It doesn't matter, it's Jae I'm after. The other reads of mine were weak reads anyway.

Also, are you seriously wanting to lynch an inactive when we have some really obvious scum running around..?

How is creature inactive? He was posting today. His posts have no useful content, but he is posting...

[karnos]

Links or it didn't happen.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8023311

Let's lynch Jae, if he flips guilty then Karnos is guilty with him.

Based on what exactly? Sorry I'm not going to blindly sheep you, that doesn't mean I think Jae is obv town. I just think Creature has a far worse iso, and despite the above he isn't inactive anymore.

[karnos]

"His posts have no useful content, but he is posting..."

I could use your reasoning to fabricate a case against nearly every player in this game. Makes me confident that you really are trying to distance from the LQ wagon = scum theory, which makes me more confident that the LQ wagon does indeed contain a large number of the scum in this game.

My reasoning isn't the only criteria for fabricating a case, my reasoning was explaining how you are blatantly wrong when you try to claim creature is inactive.

And while other posts might be equally unhelpful, I find creature's last post to be very scummy. It's like he knew LQ would flip town and wanted to go for the last second town cred.

[karnos]

so it's probably best for us to recommend he get replaced instead of killing him.

I don't think that is how it works. If he is posting content at least once every 48 hours, and getting no prods, he shouldn't be replaced. You can't just have a player replaced because they aren't providing high quality posts. What you can do, is lynch that player.

VOTE: creature

[karnos]

VOTE: creature

The problem with this line of thinking is that scum are scumhunting too. Creature wouldn't know for sure anyone is town so the grab for towncred in that situation could go horribly wrong. All that means, I think, is that he legitimately thinks he's town.

Scum should be scum hunting, sure. But I don't see any scum hunting in creature's iso.

Also, I think it would have been better if you let creature respond without giving him an easy out.

[karnos]

Creature: above and beyond what I was expecting

Here is a character who hasn't received enough attention so far, imo. This is his complete (edited) ISO:

...

And that's it. Not even ONE post that could be called serious scumhunting so far...

I don't like this one bit, that isn't the Chip I know. You are not voting anyone and you felt the need to make a detailed iso showing why DixC is scummy, but you didn't actually vote him?

VOTE: Chip Butty

[karnos]

Do you think Dix's ISO looks scummy or not?

As for voting, I'm trying to decide whether to revote LQ or not, and Dix has been pinging me ever since that post where he listed his "kill list" criteria. I want to reread, and pref get a response from Dix, then wil vote. Was more focussed on another game last time I was logged in - you know which one.

I don't know. I should know DixC, since I've played a lot of games with him on the other forums, but I'm finding it a little hard to read him here since the meta is so different.

I know my first game here was pretty awkward and everyone immediately thought I was scum, so I think it's possible some of his 'scum tells' are just because he is new and not posting in the typical style of these forums.

Overall, he is a solid null as I read him.

[karnos]

What about if you were reading him in the method of your home forum?

'Scum' isn't a term we used, so I don't think his use of 'mafia' is indicative of anything.

His theory talk and asking what dumpster scum is, nothing bad there, maybe even a slight town lean IMO.

The Chip/LQ associations talk, that is a bit reaching, and I don't agree with his thinking but that sort of post can be a reaction test.

A nice solid null. I wouldn't bank on him being town by any stretch, but I don't see anything super scummy either.

[karnos]

Why do you find only theory talk to be a slight town lean instead of trying to escape scrutiny?

Mainly, I don't think he needed to escape scrutiny at that point. I didn't do an exhaustive check but I don't think anyone was even voting him at the time, he responded to house's vote on him but at the time house had already unvoted. He could have just ignored the whole thing, instead he brought it back into the light, which is why I saw it as a slightly townish post.

[karnos]

VOTE: Chip Butty

Are you serious?? You're voting my "one and only town lean" thus far in this game??

Serious as a heart attack. Now, I wouldn't hammer him if he was at L-1, not just yet, but I absolutely want to vote him right now.

The newbie is an easy low-hanging fruit scum would like to pick on. But making a case on someone and then not voting, I just don't like that in general. Chip isn't voting anywhere, this isn't the Chip I have seen in other games.

[karnos]

The ranger getting killed tonight is a huge WIFOM. Since it's multi-ball, as it looks more obvious she will get killed tonight it actually becomes less likely- because each scum team assumes the other will take the kill.

Basically, she will probably get killed night 1 or 2, maybe night 3. She might be scum or town, it doesn't really change these chances significantly, except that as scum she might have a doctor's protection. Really the whole thing is a waste of time to argue about, because it's NAI in this game.

[karnos]

I try to do that as much as possible. To catch a scum, first you must think like a scum!

[karnos]

I try to do that as much as possible. To catch a scum, first you must think like a scum!

Interesting. In all the games I have played with you, or have played, I don't think that feature of your posting has ever leapt out at me before. Perhaps you can point me to other times in this game where you have displayed scum-like thinking?

I said essentially the same thing in my second newbie game, but I'm not going to bother looking up the exact post right now.

[karnos]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I've come full circle.

[karnos]

For one, there is this:

Let me put it to you this way: What makes GF and ALPHA a powerful role? You know this I know you do, your just not getting it because its me saying it. Basically the dynamic with GF is different because they can be way more lenient with their Town reads on their buddies. So really GF has the option of either buddying up to people and hinting like they want a check on them, and/or they can give all their Scum buddies big Townie points if they thing they will make it far into the game (through getting a check on them) and they can engage in dialog almost openly with their Scum buddies itt because once they get checked people will be none the wise. So basically there is not as much reason to distance if you are GF. But GF can play a lot of different ways depending on the team - its a very flexible role. As Town what we want to do is just like any other game which is my biggest tell for catching Scum which I wont say cuz I don't want to give too much away.

A green check doesn't mean shit in this game, and not just because of Alpha and GF roles. Cop investigates someone, gets a not-mafia result, who cares? The investigate could still be a wolf. Seer & Cop can't coordinate, so there is no such thing as a cop-vouched townie in this game. Only guaranteed scum and maybe-not-scum.

[karnos]

If I'm lucky, the rest of the town players will see fit to lynch you

[karnos]

A green check doesn't mean shit in this game, and not just because of Alpha and GF roles. Cop investigates someone, gets a not-mafia result, who cares? The investigate could still be a wolf. Seer & Cop can't coordinate, so there is no such thing as a cop-vouched townie in this game. Only guaranteed scum and maybe-not-scum.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on LQ - I think he is nullscum for me ATM - but slight correction:

A greencheck doesn't mean shit

at the start of the game

. But if both the alpha and the GF have flipped, greenchecks become 100% reliable[/quote]

Wrong.

You are a Town Cop. Each night, you can investigate one player to learn if they are Mafia or Not Mafia.

You are a Town Seer. Each night, you can investigate one player to learn if they are Werewolf or Not Werewolf.

Not werewolf could still be scum.

Not mafia could still be scum.

A greencheck means shit, unless we get to a situation where all of one scum faction is dead and the relevant cop is still alive.

[karnos]

Current scumreads: LQ, House (whoever replaces him), Ranger, Jae (Ranger and Jae may or may not be on the same scumteam)

You only have 4 scumreads when there's 6 scum. Why?

This seems like a really odd thing to complain about.

It's day 1. Anyone would be lucky to have 2 accurate scum reads. You don't have to nail both full scum teams on day 1 to win, you just need to find at least 1 good scum to lynch.

[karnos]

Vote LicketyQuickety for lynch, 2016. Make Town great again!

To sum this up, I am not a role model on how to play.. I have funky reasoning that no one gets, I don't play by the book and I miss a lot of really obvious stuff that causes a lot of heat on me.

This. Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. Either way it's a common scum tell.

Scum constantly acts sarcastic in the thread so that when he makes an actual scum slip he can just call it "OBVIOUS SARCASM".

In the alternate universe where LQ is being serious, he is basically saying he acts like scum all the time, so if you read him as scum it's really just his town game that looks like scum. Yeah sure dude, nice cover.

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

Seven names and you would happy to lynch any of them. I guess it would be too obvious if you listed everyone outside of your scum team, so you had to draw the line somewhere, right? I just find this odd. Usually you try to find scum, and then lynch the most likely scum. I don't think I have ever seen a towny before say he was willing to lynch any of SEVEN different "scum".

Links or it didn't happen.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8023311

One lousy link is the best you could do, huh? Not buying it with one game. You implied multiple games you have see this, unless you are just really new to this game and think one game means something.

This is incredibly telling to me. You complain about it just being a single link, but you obviously didn't even click on it. I linked back to this very game, it's not another game's example. You aren't trying to solve the game, you are just trying to respond and look like you are busy without doing the work.

[karnos]

I don't really like these wagon choices.

[karnos]

A) Scum don't know who is town.

They have a much better idea who is town than town themselves, though.

In a normal game, going for town cred like that is a risky play that might have a payoff if you are believed.

In this sort of game, it's a risky play that won't even have a positive payoff in many cases. Misdirecting a lynch on an enemy or potential town PR is stupid when you don't even know for sure you would be getting the supposed "town cred" payoff.

[karnos]

B) Karnos is town. I am 100% convinced of this.

I really don't like this though.
VOTE: JaeReed
L-1

[karnos]

I'm really fighting the urge to unvote, but even if Jae is town a quick hammer right now would be great for opening up the game.

[karnos]

I think it means a lot of us will be looking at your iso very carefully.