Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Creature]

BV's logic doesn't make SENSE
he was okay with pushing socty regardless of the tracker claim yeah?
So question why the unvote and "okay" from Cloud when cloud does even worse and just claims pr

Answer: Bv pushed on his partner for towncred and unvoted cloud because cloud is town.

Actually I am now interested here.

[Creature]

Okay, so it's been a ridiculously hard decision between Sotty7 and Hoopla. Ultimately, Hoopla's been sort of an enigma while Sotty7 has been more traditionally scummy as well as had the nightkill point towards her. Her lack of noticing Hoopla pushing her is another reason. Finally, I think Hoopla's early scumread on Sotty7 seems more likely to come from a town to a scum than the other way around. Between the two, I'm going for Sotty7.

For Creature, I'll briefly address the claim point - I do think leaving PRs alive is a good idea in general but since we have a Mason claim already, Sotty7 could make it through at least a couple of days before she's expected to answer questions about being nightkilled so best to just go with our reads now. If I'm wrong and just lynched a tracker, I'll feel like a dumbass sure but for now, I'm going to take the risk.

VOTE: Sotty7

Sorry man, not good enough. I want to see a specific claim. You were quite intent on making anyone who reached L-1 claim. We can't just give you special treatment here and let you off with a vague "PR claim."

[Creature]

[Creature]

creature do you think mentioning the mason in your townbloc a lot is going to make them tr you?



because that idea is actually dumb enough that it just might work

How can there be a true townblock without conftown on it?

[Creature]

She didn't bus as scum in Newbie 1683.

[Creature]

Calling the council of not dumb players to analyse 2236.

[Creature]

@Hoopla, Creature - here's where you CAN do something. Vote Cloud and leave me with the hammer. The claim will come, trust me.

If you won't straight away hammer.

[Creature]

What are some advantages of making him fullclaim besides getting a read on him?

[Creature]

Let me see.

[Creature]

VOTE: Cloud

[Creature]

I just hope Cloud doesn't do anything stupid.

[Creature]

UNVOTE:

[Creature]

MariaR/me scumteam would mean I was flipflopping on my scumbuddy.

[Creature]

Also, I don't really want to eliminate possible scumteams unless I get a scumflip.

[Creature]

I am thinking it's GM/MariaR, but I'm not feeling sure on Rask and Hoopla being town.

[Creature]

I'm up for a GM wagon.

[Creature]

Need VC.

[Creature]

{GM, Maria, Hoopla}.

Okay, if I were viewing from your PoV, I'd feel better about Hoopla.

[Creature]

Hoopla's been town lately, but not even close to strong town.

[Creature]

idk what

[Creature]

5 days

[Creature]

Analysis of Gamestate:
So basically we're in 2 camps atm, which I'll refer to as apples and oranges because why not.

Apples: GM, Maria, Cloud, Hoopla
Oranges: Rask, Creature, BV, arona, Jaack?

Which means we all know who's getting lynched today.

I don't know where I was going with this. I volunteer as tribute?

[Creature]

Okay, don't think gm is the way to go.

[Creature]

Hey Rask, I'd like some opinion there: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=67472

[Creature]

I know some of you don't want meta, but I don't know how else I should go.

[Creature]

Hey Hoopla, what's your opinion on meta?

[Creature]

You seem like some analytical player, so maybe you'd not mind making meta analysis.

[Creature]

What differences are you seeing creature?

She didn't come with that apple/orange thing and blah blah blah?

[Creature]

Okay, apparently I can't use meta right now as scum probably started to imitate their town selves rn.

[Creature]

How boring do you think BlackVoid has been this game?

[Creature]

Starting to get impatient again.

I was also and still am impatient, I'm just not stating it.

[Creature]

I can't even form {aronagrundy, BlackVoid, CloudKicker, Jaack} townblock again.

[Creature]

I think MariaR is least likely to flip town.

[Creature]

You mean adding you and Rask to the townblock?

[Creature]

Let me see

[Creature]

You currently have the scum team as Rask/Maria, right?

[Creature]

that literally thinks bv/creature is the scumteam

Right, they like chanting doubt spells on us.

[Creature]

She probably was waiting BlackVoid post as planned.

[Creature]

What happened to your creature read? Did you seriously go from clearing him to doubting him entirely on an associative basis with me?

No, it's because he doesn't seem very engaged with the game. He has slowly become less active, offered less contributions, less strong reads, pushes and opinions. I see it as a scum trend in general. I'm not saying he's scum for sure but he's no longer a strong townread.

Could also be loss of motivation (specially when town can't come in an agreement).

[Creature]

According to you, the most probable teams are:
Rask and Hoopla
Rask and me
MariaR and goodmorning
MariaR and me

[Creature]

I find MariaR/GM most likely.

[Creature]

I'll see tomorrow.

[Creature]

Hey Hoopla, are you sorting the game?

[Creature]

Not sure if I can lean on these team eliminations.

[Creature]

VOTE: Hoopla

[Creature]

This is actually hard, but I think Hoopla's been throwing shade on me and not sorting the game.

[Creature]

I could switch to MariaR.

[Creature]

I think my original guess (Sotty - Hoopla - MariaR) was actually correct.

[Creature]

Creature let's talk shop.
Do you townread everyone but a select group of people and that's why I'm in your scumread pool and if that's the case can I know why.
I won't accept your reason for scumreading me is I'm hard to read at least BV tried lol

Yes, who I am not townreading hard is: goodmorning, hoopla and you.

[Creature]

I think Hoopla is just aiming to keep an open mislynch pool.

[Creature]

While from you and GM, I expect you to act like this as scum more than GM.

[Creature]

And yes, I've considered BlackVoid and Raskolnikov, a lot of times. Just that I didn't see them flipping scum.

[Creature]

arona is mason
I buy Cloud's claim, and I expect him to die anyway
Jaack was the one pushing Sotty
BV actually fueled the Sotty wagon
Rask is meta

[Creature]

If the pool is {Black, me, GM, Hoopla, MariaR}, we need to agree on someone to remove.

[Creature]

40% chance if we're not wrong.

[Creature]

idk, either we roll a dice or we hope scum didn't sway us to lynch all town members.

[Creature]

I didn't remove Rask because he townreads me (in fact, I had Rask as townread before he whiteknight me and he went into my lynchpool after he was townreading me).

[Creature]

A better play would be: Let's not eliminate scumteams before we get a scumflip.

[Creature]

Okay then, so far who doesn't make sense with Sotty?

[Creature]

Also, being counterwagon to scum doesn't apply.

[Creature]

What about D1 interactions?

[Creature]

Mainly when Sotty wasn't in danger of being lynched so scum were actually fine.

[Creature]

idk, the moments where scum were most likely unaware.

[Creature]

Okay, let me see how town was divided D1.

[Creature]

Votecount 1.12

GreyICE (5)

Sotty7 , MichelSableheart , BlackVoid , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , L-2

Jaack (2)

Hoopla , MariaR ,

MichelSableheart (1)

CloudKicker ,

VictorDeAngelo (2)

goodmorning , GreyICE ,

Sotty7 (3)

Jaack , Raskolnikov , TwoFace ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

Votecount 1.13

GreyICE (6)

Sotty7 , MichelSableheart , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , Hoopla , BlackVoid L-1,

MichelSableheart (1)

CloudKicker

VictorDeAngelo (5)

goodmorning , GreyICE , MariaR , Raskolnikov , Jaack L-2,

Sotty7 (1)

TwoFace ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

[Creature]

Meh, would scum!GM push a counterwagon to GI?

(if it wasn't GM who initially pushed, then who it was?)

[Creature]

Also, taking a look at Hoopla, do you think she's actually solving the game or just posting content that doesn't advance the game?

[Creature]

Okay, who fueled the Victor wagon?

[Creature]

Okay, apparently GM played a major role D1.

[Creature]

I didn't experience Day 1 to the fullest, this is why I don't know much.

[Creature]

My Rask townread is even more solid.

[Creature]

{BlackVoid, goodmorning, Hoopla, MariaR}

Sorry, don't know how to narrow down it even more.

[Creature]

Hmm where?

[Creature]

I've been thinking this over and I've decided to claim. I'm not 100% sure on Rask so maybe I shouldn't be pushing that hard. I'm obviously not going to get lynched but what I really need right now is for MariaR and GM to post reads that aren't dependent on "BV is scum so whoever is pushing is town."

I

need to read

them

and this isn't making it easy for me. The next nightkills are pretty much set in stone and nearly everyone has claimed so I can't see any possible benefit in delaying. Maybe if I reach 3P, I can use that to conf-town myself but that's a long shot so whatever.

I'm a Mason. I, Victor/Arona, and IAI are part of a three-person masonry.

Arona will confirm when he gets back on. So, there you go. Everyone scumreading me make up new scumreads and they better be good.

[Creature]

Okay, if players don't throw shade at you, we should be fine.

[Creature]

For anyone

Do you think scum!Raskolnikov makes sense with town!me?

[Creature]

Maybe we could PoE inside {Me, goodmorning, Hoopla, MariaR}

[Creature]

Vanilla Town

[Creature]

As far as Hoopla goes, I don't know. I think her D2 play is suspicious. This is a weak reason to townread Sotty7:

found the meta analysis of her being more active as town and quiet as scum convincing. I wouldn't be super surprised if she's scum, but there's at least three others I'd lynch before her.

Mostly just piggybacked off of my early D1 reasoning but never really evolved. In fact, it did seem to me later on that Sotty7 was having trouble posting. She followed a pattern that I sometimes see from scum which is post regularly at certain intervals (morning and evening). Someone who prefers playing as town tend to pop in at random times to add stray thoughts.

Finally, her reason to vote Sotty7 comes when she's on the ropes. It's looking more and more like she bussed the partner who had gotten locked into a claim.

But there's still the fact that if she was planning for Sotty7 to claim and lynch someone else, surely she could have been on the wagon. I thought her reaction under pressure was sincere but I may be reading too much into things that are just playstyle/personality based.

lol Hoopla metaread Sotty7 but refuses to listen for a metaread on me.

[Creature]

Damn, why nobody wants to narrow down the scumpool?

[Creature]

How many days we have left?

[Creature]

Oh right, 2.5 days.

[Creature]

{me, goodmorning, Hoopla, MariaR}

[Creature]

Do you know what's it?

[Creature]

Oh nice.

[Creature]

Okay, one mislynch and we're in LyLo.

[Creature]

Even if we already had a pre-determined PoE list, it means scum has another card in their sleeves: paranoia.

They can use it to open the lynchpool.

[Creature]

Damn, wished I could do more.

[Creature]

I mean today.

[Creature]

I don't know what to do today.

[Creature]

It was good when I replaced in and had a lot of ideas.

[Creature]

Well, you are the only one out of the pool of four I don't want to lynch so I could use your help.

You are either wrong about Rask or our scumteam is GM and MariaR. How strongly do you still feel about Rask being town after that flip?

Not really.

[Creature]

I'm fine with lynching MariaR today.

[Creature]

It'd be good if a lynch didn't happen when I'm sleeping like it did before.

[Creature]

Okay, I'm there.

[Creature]

I'll use fallacies.

[Creature]

TwoFace
BlueBloodedToffee GreyICE

Raskolnikov *
goodmorning *

Hoopla

Jaack *
MichelSableheart Creature

BlackVoid
VictorDeAngelo aronagrundy*
CloudKicker
I Am Innocent **

Sotty7

MariaR

[Creature]

Decided to not green Jaack just because he's a strong read rather than a mechanical read.

[Creature]

Let's ignore Jaack.

[Creature]

Teams you're excluding:
goodmorning/Raskolnikov
goodmorning/Creature
MariaR/Raskolnikov (?)

[Creature]

If only one of Rask and MariaR are scum, which is more likely? A town-MariaR going out of her way to defend a scum-Rask or a scum-MariaR whiteknighting a town-Rask telling us that he's town so after we lynch him, she can say "I told you so?"

idk, MariaR likes whiteknighting as town, not sure as scum.

[Creature]

TwoFace
BlueBloodedToffee GreyICE

Raskolnikov *
goodmorning *

Hoopla

Jaack *
MichelSableheart Creature

BlackVoid
VictorDeAngelo aronagrundy*
CloudKicker
I Am Innocent **

Sotty7

MariaR

Do you think it's likely there's at least one scum in the first 5 players?

[Creature]

More than 1/3 of the players.

[Creature]

When I'm undecided, I usually check the playerlist and the player positions, and I do something like "I doubt scum would be adjacent to each other"

[Creature]

I actually mean something like

3 - Titus
4 - Firebringer
5 - DrippingGoofball

being all scum

[Creature]

Do you really depend on a Rask flip to solve the game (even a townflip)?

[Creature]

Need the VC.

[Creature]

VOTE: MariaR

I think just BlackVoid and I voted.

[Creature]

Thought I didn't need to say it was four to lynch.

[Creature]

We can't be that away from lynching scum.

[Creature]

2 scum surviving to endgame is still pretty much a tough loss.

[Creature]

Rask + ???

[Creature]

I don't think Rask is flipping scum, so I want MariaR.

[Creature]

GM/Maria

[Creature]

Though, not totally sure if I buy this team.

[Creature]

Do you think both MariaR and GM planned to tunnel me?

[Creature]

Anxious to see what GM will say about that wagon on her.

[Creature]

Can we like decide?

[Creature]

Also, goodmourning, why you not posting?

[Creature]

Yeah, GM kind of flaked.

[Creature]

VOTE: Raskolnikov

[Creature]

idk just started feeling GM is town and still not paranoid of Jaack.

[Creature]

Hopefully I am right.

[Creature]

Slow games are fun if players don't act like "we must wait until the last minute"

[Creature]

VOTE: MariaR

[Creature]

goodmorning has not responded to prod and is being replaced.

[Creature]

When's gm gonna be replaced?

[Creature]

Never took preflip associations very seriously.

[Creature]

havingfitz GM claimed PR and said she'd out what she was when she came back
care to tell us what pr you are

[Creature]

Vote with you on his own slot?

[Creature]

By the way, how did you figure out that I was a Mason and that Cloud claimed? You had 134 pages to read so it seems odd that you knew this. It does make more sense if a scumbuddy was feeding you information about the gamestate.

lol okay at least we very likely got scum.

[Creature]

I usually take 5-15 seconds to read a page (most because I scroll past boring posts), but I think I'd probably miss the claims.

[Creature]

VOTE: havingfitz

L-1

[Creature]

MariaR, what's your opinion on havingfitz knowing BlackVoid and CloudKicker's claims without reading any page?

[Creature]

We're not too many votes away to get to majority on any wagon, but we need to decide.

[Creature]

Shots fired.

[Creature]

or even decided to ISO for claims.

[Creature]

Damn when someone scumslips and someone else says it can only be scum with me.

[Creature]

Creature is gonna go for me the next day after Fliz flips

Yeah, I'll go after who I think it's most likely scum.

[Creature]

I don't really want to pay attention to association tells.

[Creature]

Okay, apparently I'm a big question anyway, because I fit in most teams.

[Creature]

I believe you can determine which team is most appropriate from {havingfitz, Rask, MariaR}

[Creature]

Did I mention about Newbie 1743?

[Creature]

Rask looks really different from there.

[Creature]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=68476

[Creature]

Wished we could get a scum lynch today, it's hard to get a strong townread in LyLo.

[Creature]

"Scumslip" is a bit of an exaggeration. Did he "slip" the same way Hoopla did? Which, by the way I have no idea what you were referring to when you said Hoopla scumslipped.

Hoopla treated GI like town, which could come from bad wording.

havingfitz, when replaced in, showed knowledge about claims despite claiming to not have fully read, aka probably saw from scum PT.

[Creature]

Newbie 1743:
Thinks Rask is lurking, Rask posts, townreads Rask, back to lurking...

[Creature]

Meta is my main tool.

[Creature]

Ever checked the link?

[Creature]

How Rask was?

[Creature]

She was townier

lol

[Creature]

Okay, more pro-town/engaged then.

[Creature]

If you ever played with me.

[Creature]

You can see whether I'm willed to solve the game and excited when a scum flips or if I'm coasting afraid of screwing up.

[Creature]

Anything more you have to say?

[Creature]

Also, from gm/fitz, MariaR and Rask, Rask should be the easiest to read.

[Creature]

Nah, we have 1 1/4 days.

[Creature]

I am really in need of wins.

[Creature]

I thought will mean't how much I get excited when I'm nearly solving/getting a scumflip.

[Creature]

Actually sometimes I just sheep others when I don't really have an idea. Otherwise I'll shout some things like "X is town, Y is sliding under the radar"

[Creature]

Maybe if we just lynch havingfitz and MariaR, we don't have to worry about LyLo.

[Creature]

Okay.

[Creature]

MariaR, was you scum?

[Creature]

*were you

[Creature]

Damn

[Creature]

havingfitz escaped with his scumslip.

[Creature]

We should've lynched havingfitz.

[Creature]

gg wp

VOTE: havingfitz

[Creature]

L-1 btw

[Creature]

I think you townfirmed someone.

[Creature]

I requested, but I think Jaack didn't.

[Creature]

But he was obvtown anyway.

[Creature]

Rask is also obvtown, guess who's left.

[Creature]

I requested nightskip.

[Creature]

UNVOTE:

Okay, apparently only havingfitz didn't request nightskip.

[Creature]

If it isn't havingfitz, I don't know who it is though.

[Creature]

havingfitz being scum would mean he submitted his kill and the mod interpreted he wanted to nightskip too, but then why would he say about him not requesting a nightskip?

[Creature]

Taking a look at the flipped scum, VCA looks useless.

[Creature]

3220 I sort of townread GM slot and your wagon had more support from Rask/Maria.

[Creature]

Votecount 2.10

Raskolnikov (1)

CloudKicker ,

Hoopla (2)

I Am Innocent , Creature ,

Jaack (2)

Sotty7 , MariaR ,

I Am Innocent (1)

goodmorning ,

Sotty7 (4)

Jaack , Hoopla , BlackVoid , Raskolnikov L-2,

Not Voting (1)

VictorDeAngelo ,

Day two deadline is Friday November 18, 1 PM PST. (expired on 2016-11-18 13:00:00)

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[/size]

[Creature]

aka both scum joined on you.

[Creature]

I think MariaR said she's a busser.

[Creature]

Raskolnikov

goodmorning
Hoopla

Jaack
Creature
BlackVoid
VictorDeAngelo
CloudKicker
I Am Innocent

Sotty7
MariaR

Also, I'll brag about this if havingfitz turns to be scum.

[Creature]

You can tell exactly the posts where the claims were made in a short time but you can't read 146 pages?

[Creature]

Yo, congratz on outing me asshole bg 1-shot and not used, i didnt want to out because i wanted to trade myslef with a clear or investigative role. I didnt plan on outing the affix but i dont trust you to not hammer me just cause i didnt out it, heres the claim i typed earlier today. I also thought about just not posting anymore for a while just to troll you even further but i actually want to win this game and not be banned for trolling every game. To sum it up, i wanted to test sotty and to protect her/clear her etc, imo it was optimal to not lynch her straight away in any scenarios and this is also the reason why i believe she was bussed




Heres my claim without my affix,

I hardclaim bodyguard

- started typing this @ #2423

From another game and havent read titus, i believe that a protective role shouldnt crumb right ? Its not an actual crumb imo in the sens of it but i remember i tried to push the idea to actually test the tracker because Sotty couldve proved to me, i said that many times.

My whole d2 reason not to lynch sotty was because i wanted to be on her that day and maybe try to track outside, if this happened i wouldve crumbed who i was going on [sotty] to possibly clear her and wins a ml since we wouldnt have to lynch sotty anymore because she was virtually scumread by most of the town, that was essentially my plan. Also from slight setup meta on specs, i believe that town masons + track + weak-ish proctective role did made sens since theres over 1 investigative and 1 protective in most setup.

I also wanted to further get reads from a lynch outside the sotty claim because imo it was optimal in every way.

If i was on sotty and i get killed for it, sotty is clear, we win ml, her track is considered true++. I also seriously doubted that i wouldve been killed while not bodyguarding if Sotty was mafia, because i hard defended the shit out of her, not reason ti nightkill me the mason claim.

If the flip outside her was incriminating Sotty i wouldve probably no bodyguard or on the mason claim, idk i didnt actually think too much about it but that was essentially my state of mind.

The reason why i didnt want to full claim is because i expected to trade myself at somepoint in the game with another pr or a clear, claiming here just kill me pretty much and makes me completly useless. As far as meta goes and from em, protective roles should almost never claim.

When sonia said that i was hardtrying today, i even reminded her the game when i got lynched as doc because i didnt claim, that was another soft and she mightve picked it up? idk she didnt push on me.

[Creature]

I've been thinking this over and I've decided to claim. I'm not 100% sure on Rask so maybe I shouldn't be pushing that hard. I'm obviously not going to get lynched but what I really need right now is for MariaR and GM to post reads that aren't dependent on "BV is scum so whoever is pushing is town."

I

need to read

them

and this isn't making it easy for me. The next nightkills are pretty much set in stone and nearly everyone has claimed so I can't see any possible benefit in delaying. Maybe if I reach 3P, I can use that to conf-town myself but that's a long shot so whatever.

I'm a Mason. I, Victor/Arona, and IAI are part of a three-person masonry.

Arona will confirm when he gets back on. So, there you go. Everyone scumreading me make up new scumreads and they better be good.

[Creature]

Okay, you missed the first but not the second, right?

[Creature]

Oh woops, I read "Cloud's claim" rather than "Sotty's claim"

[Creature]

By PoE havingfitz is scum.

[Creature]

Jaack will still hammer me if Rask flips town.

[Creature]

VOTE: Rask

L-1

[Creature]

Hell, I'm glad he died.

[Creature]

VOTE: havingfitz

[Creature]

Jaack kill sounds really harsh WIFOM.

[Creature]

Btw, Cloud, if you come here, can you say something like "not hammering"?

[Creature]

So far:
D1: Town lynch
D2: Scum lynch
D3: Town lynch
D4: Scum lynch
D5: Town lynch
D6: ???

[Creature]

Btw, it doesn't matter anyway, just wondering, what's actually your full role? I never actually saw it.

[Creature]

Besides "affix" bodyguard.

[Creature]

Won't get paranoid of Cloud:

TwoFace
BlueBloodedToffee GreyICE
Raskolnikov *
goodmorning havingfitz
Hoopla
Jaack *
MichelSableheart Creature
BlackVoid - Mason
VictorDeAngelo aronagrundy* - Mason

CloudKicker

I Am Innocent ** - Mason

Sotty7
MariaR