Mini 1880: Witch Trials Mafia - Game over!

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Pine

Because no way does he get lynched d1.

Mwahahaha!

[-Grey-]

Pine r samrt.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: drealmerz7

VOTING MECHANICS ARE FUN YO!

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Pine

Waiting for a VC to be safe, lol.

[-Grey-]

Lol, you saw the roster before the game started.

[-Grey-]

Andrius and Jordan are two pretty safe bets.

[-Grey-]

no betting allowed

/modkill grey

Wrong.

There are no rules against gambling.

[-Grey-]

@mod:

Person A already has a Paranoia Vote
Person B does not

If Person A votes Person 1, then Person B votes Person 1, and Person A unvotes... does Person 1 become Person B's Paranoia Vote since Person B effectively becomes the first person on the wagon?

[-Grey-]

@mod:

Person A already has a Paranoia Vote
Person B does not

If Person A votes Person 1, then Person B votes Person 1, and Person A unvotes... does Person 1 become Person B's Paranoia Vote since Person B effectively becomes the first person on the wagon?

[-Grey-]

Yup thanks!

[-Grey-]

no betting allowed

/modkill grey

Wrong.

There are no rules against gambling.

Actually, because of me there is.

I want my $1000

It's actually in the site rules, I just didn't think anybody was taking me super-serial.

[-Grey-]

Holding back my real vote for now. The paranoia mechanic kind of complicates RVS.

RVS not-a-real-vote for Persivul

This guy was scumTown all through Strahd, so fuck 'im.

Vote: -Grey-

Voted a Strahdian. Obviously a WITCH trying to stop TEAM VAMPIRE HUNTER from killing them.


I had thought that maybe we should use HURT: Playername tags until we're ready to vote and try to avoid voting-related madness but that's no fun.

You should return to page one and read WHY I voted Pine, because that apparently escaped your keen eye.

[-Grey-]

Not a fan of shaddowez' and Persivul's votes. Of the two, shaddowez looks the most passive aggressive.

VOTE: shaddowez

[-Grey-]

^ This smells forced and like weird reasoning for a vote

The game is slow as fuck. I'm trying to spur discussion, so yeah perhaps it was.

[-Grey-]

hows that for spurring discussion?

Kinda lazy, because it's an empty assertion that doesn't even try to provide a foundation for the read.

[-Grey-]

grey sounds super-suspect and his voet is off

Cool, I'm super suspect.

Tell me, what makes me super suspicious?

[-Grey-]

asserting someone's vote looks passive aggressive and calling them scum for it

It's more reason to vote than "because he won't get lynched lulz".

And it's more reason for a vote than anything you've provided.

So I'm good with it.

[-Grey-]

you're desperate to vote why?

You're shading activity why?

My vote always bounces around a lot on d1.

Get used to it.

[-Grey-]

Wow, that's so town.

[-Grey-]

I'm a PR retards.

Fuck off.

Now I'm NK bait.

Good job. Congratulations, you're all fucking rocket surgeons.

[-Grey-]

Not full claiming.

You tools don't deserve the info.

Lynch me or leave me for scum. Idc.

[-Grey-]

I'm a Masonizer.

Hammer away.

[-Grey-]

Well it's stupid to lynch a claim that is confirmable d2, bit hey you lot are determined to trash this game so idc.

[-Grey-]

Why are you so defeated imo.

Because people got all over me like stink on shit over stupid stuff and you know that always pisses me off.

[-Grey-]

And the flavor title for my ability is Union Organizer, if that matters.

[-Grey-]

That's because fuck em.

You see me in a couple games and think you know every little thing about me Ali.

You see me do things, bit you don't comprehend WHY.

It's four fucking pages into the game and the entire roster decided to fucking lynch me so this game can go to hell.

[-Grey-]

^ see that? He'd rather lynch me than have two confirmed town tomorrow.

Shit like that is why this game is trash.

[-Grey-]

I don't like the words your throwing at Grey.

He's seen me say "fuck this game" as town.

Recently.

Users that as an excuse to continue pushing me.

VOTE: drealmerz

[-Grey-]

you aren't confirmed town tomorrow
you thinking that that is how it is, is not good

? He claimed masonizer.

He's invested in selling my Lynch at any cost.

[-Grey-]

that only confirms him to 1 other towny

That's Friendly Neighbor idiot

[-Grey-]

that only confirms him to 1 other towny

you don't know how masonizer works do you

He obviously doesn't.

[-Grey-]

so shittalk instead of be a good teammate and actually try and be helpful

yeayhhhh

but no, I do, I think anyway

No reason for me to help an asshole.

[-Grey-]

lrn2wiki

[-Grey-]

True, sorry for the names.

I can own that.

[-Grey-]

I don't need to look at the wiki, because I know it doesn't fucking say

"at the start of D2 a masonizer is confirmed town by the moderator"

The more excuses you make to stay on me, the more you show your scum motives.

[-Grey-]

like, if you understand the meaning of the word confirmation, what I'm saying shouldn't be difficult to grasp

if I'm being stupid, help me understand

but don't fucking be assholes to me about it

Cool the fuck out, I apologized for that

[-Grey-]

Lmmfao

[-Grey-]

Once a Masonizer has a partner.

Once one of them dies.

It confirms the other even to hardcases.

How long do you think both will stay alive?

One flipping scum confirms both scum.

Braaaainz

[-Grey-]

Scum isn't going to claim Masonizer because doing so implicates TWO scum.

[-Grey-]

Masons are always confirmed.

That confirmation isn't always public, but when it becomes so, it is indisputable.

[-Grey-]

Split hairs all you want, it's one of my favorite tells.

Masons are confirmed town.

[-Grey-]

also this is a clumsy game rolemadness - I wouldn't be surprised if scum has fakeclaims, like masonizer

If you think Masonizer is a safe fakeclaim, you really don't know much about this game

[-Grey-]

also this is a clumsy game rolemadness - I wouldn't be surprised if scum has fakeclaims, like masonizer

If you think Masonizer is a safe fakeclaim, you really don't know much about this game

I just think outside of the box and see options others don't see / that aren't standard

yes, it can be a safe fakeclaim - especially if you're a scum neighborizer

Wrong. Town will never claim to be Masons if they're just neighborized.

You're making my point.

[-Grey-]

Masons are always confirmed.

That confirmation isn't always public,

Then they're not always confirmed.

but when it becomes so, it is indisputable.

The implication being that, before it becomes public, it

is

disputable.

drealz is right. The practical importance of his position is debatable, but technically, he's correct, and your own posting supports him.

No. He's hairspring scum trying to justify maintaining a scumread on a fucking MASONIZER.

Masons are confirmed town. This is indisputable fact. If they weren't, they'd be called NEIGHBORS.

[-Grey-]

Masons are always confirmed.

That confirmation isn't always public,

Then they're not always confirmed.

but when it becomes so, it is indisputable.

The implication being that, before it becomes public, it

is

disputable.

drealz is right. The practical importance of his position is debatable, but technically, he's correct, and your own posting supports him.

No. He's hairsplitting scum trying to justify maintaining a scumread on a fucking MASONIZER.

Masons are confirmed town. This is indisputable fact. If they weren't, they'd be called NEIGHBORS.

[-Grey-]

Look at this from scum's perspective.

If I live through n1, town has TWO confirmed town d2 they have to deal with.

[-Grey-]

Take it up with him.

[-Grey-]

^ see that? He'd rather lynch me than have two confirmed town tomorrow.

Is your ability 1X? Do you die if you target scum? If so, are you really going to use it tonight? And if yes, why haven't you talked about the cop-like aspect, i.e. naming your target so they're implicated if you die? You don't seem to have thought through the possibilities much at all. Why not?

Yes
Yes
Yes
Obvious shit is obvious (they're named in my iso)

You assume too much.

[-Grey-]

grey -

why did you claim early?
why so defeatest after the claim?
there is an entire playerlist and I am me, and a little pressure and you were like "omg I give up you all suck and can die"- like, totally dramatic and I am having a hard time grasping your mindset there, if you could take me through it

Already answered and not rehashing old content

ISO me.

[-Grey-]

Look at this from scum's perspective.

If I live through n1, town has TWO confirmed town d2 they have to deal with.

So if you're alive tomorrow, we should lynch you?

Sufficient for the day is its worries.

[-Grey-]

nah dreal isn't scum

he's just.....


special. very special.

I disagree.

I hated the way he tried to redirect me back to talking about questions I'd already answered.

1) The content was already discussed. Apparently he wasn't paying attention.
2) Looked like a subtle attempt to nudge me back into that state mind.

[-Grey-]

what do you make of the premature claim of such a role?

Scummy question.

Town version: What do you make of the timing of his claim?

[-Grey-]

so you do think I'm scum, grey?

What do you think?

[-Grey-]

forgot your vote was on me, obviously

that makes me not voting you not an option

You still aren't paying attention.

[-Grey-]

I don't like the words your throwing at Grey.

He's seen me say "fuck this game" as town.

Recently.

Uses that as an excuse to continue pushing me.

VOTE: drealmerz

[-Grey-]

I've said all I intend to until d2.

[-Grey-]

Your little tirade doesn't really matter if I don't.

[-Grey-]

So?

Where did I ever give you the notion that I had any interest in making you happy?

[-Grey-]

Grey, what are your thoughts on votes being used for pressure as a general concept?

As a general concept? I'm fine with it.

On a personal note, however, I get annoyed at wagons that form on me for no reason.

[-Grey-]

So you do recognize it as a concept. The reason for such a wagon should be clear, after all, you were (correctly) complaining about a slow game. Interesting.

No, not really.

There was no foundation for it, which was my objection.

Kinda hard to work with people when they're just lolscumreading you, so I just said fuck it.

[-Grey-]

I mean come on, here I am with this big, shiny Masonry just waiting for me d2, right?

Then town gets a wild hair up their ass to wagon me for no fucking reason


Yeah. It pissed me off.

[-Grey-]

That's a really risky play, but it's not unprecedented.

In late game when there was little risk for fallout, perhaps, but on d1?

I think not.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

[-Grey-]

as far as how it's not unprecedented and with a signature like ""-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour", I absolutely believe it is a scum-move you'd make

Guess I walked right into that one!

[-Grey-]

shaziro the pine wagon is already pretty righteous

Why do you say that?

[-Grey-]

pine was super calm and explained why he did what he did and there was no rub about it (I probably did say somethingl ike "wtf are you doing claiming?" ...I wonder...)

grey was like 'omg a wagon blahhh fuck you all pppppppppp'

the interactions are bound to be different

But you acted like my behavior was unusual, when you in fact know that not to be the case.

[-Grey-]

not unusual

scummy, regardless of you being IDGAF in PYPDD

Right, because you're the only person on this site to be a raging psychopath and still retain your green role pm.

Makes perfect sense.

[-Grey-]

A: Dreal isn't being a raging psychopath by any measure
B: do you feel your reactions to the votes were raging psychopathy?

I didn't say he was.

He knows very well what I'm saying.

[-Grey-]

Oh my, look how town you are.

[-Grey-]

I was trying to be nice about it

[-Grey-]

Bewitched was p cool.

[-Grey-]

drealmerz!

I have decided!

I am Masonizing YOU tonight. I was going to Masonize ISO, but decided it'll be better to get this little drama settled once and for all instead.

See you on the other side, broseph.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: xjordanx

Hai.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: xjordanx

Hai.

Why do you want Jordan aka mudkip lover 26 again?

?

[-Grey-]

^ truth

[-Grey-]

Why do you say that?

Think I explained my Pine vote pretty well, unless you're asking something else?

He plans on bussing all of his scumbuds including himself.

This?

You're sticking with this as a serious vote?

[-Grey-]

[-Grey-]

Oh Noes, I handle pressure badly, I must be scum.
Lol.

I feel your pain.

[-Grey-]

Shaziro, I'm going to guess you're not familiar with either of the heads of iso.

Alisae is not at all terrible town, but he's an easy target in the early game while he's getting his bearings. Once he gets into his groove though, he can be a solid asset.

Keyenpeydee... is keyenpeydee. Not trying to sound mean (especially in light of recent developments), but he gets lynched d1 fairly regularly. I can link four times off the top of my head, 3 of which he was town.

Does any of this mean they're not scum in THIS game? Absolutely not! I'm sure you have a keener eye for spotting scum than I do! Especially early game. I just don't want you to get locked into a tunnel over stereotypical expectations for town behavior.

[-Grey-]

I get how you feel that way. If Alisae hasn't done such a great job in Large Normal 200 recently, I'd be inclined to agree.

[-Grey-]

Can you link me a few games grey?, And his most recent ones, I got lynched a lot d1 in my early games so I don't think it's reasonable to link non recent games.

The only familiarity I have with keyen's play was an ISO skim where I identified his d1 lynches scattered throughout his time here. 1 scum, 3 town. He's a very easy target, and I think being ESL contributes to that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying not to vote the hydra, or even not to lynch them. I'm just bringing up their affinity for being easy targets on d1.

[-Grey-]

@ shaziro the pine wagon is already pretty righteous, i don't think voting himself for the paranoia vote is scummy, and his dreal vote is wrong but it's not that wrong

Randomly pointing at this guy as shaziro's scum partner

Time to confbias some proof together and get you boys lynched.

Prepare for violation

Lol, I love this post.

[-Grey-]

drealmerz!

I have decided!

I am Masonizing YOU tonight. I was going to Masonize ISO, but decided it'll be better to get this little drama settled once and for all instead.

See you on the other side, broseph.

PLEASE PLEASE

DO NOT

DO THIS DUMB THING

he's allready super-obv town.

Use it on someone that is not

Get that auto-win on day2 by getting 1-2 more townreads, pretty please.

Shh. WIFOM.

If scum thinks I'm protected, maybe they'll kill him and make my life more pleasant.

[-Grey-]

I mean, if that was your way of suggesting that you were trying to get rid of your paranoia vote risk, and notifying town...it was a really bad way to do that. It looked, at least to me, much more like you were trying to make it skim under the radar as a joke. That said, prove that it was a missping, simple as that.

Isomorphic is panicing in reaction to being caught bullshitting. All I did was point out that actually, -Grey- isn't the one that first spotted you getting rid of the Paranoia risk. Just read through their responses after that. It's a litany of misrepresentation, concocted by scum that wants town off their ass. I'll grab specific examples though, sure!

Youre just too coherent and sensible to be scum.

Your concice reasoning to be targeting iso here and sticking with it shows a single plan.

Youre not thinking about multiple things at once, youre focusing on executing this one plan. Town isnt so sure about themselves at this point.

Youre still scum.

Wait.

Are you saying scum!Shaziro is bussing scum!Iso?

[-Grey-]

I don't see scum!Shaziro bussing scum!Iso here. Shaziro is the one that brought heat onto Iso, iirc.

SvT maybe. TvT perhaps. But SvS? I have doubts.

[-Grey-]

{Vecna, drealmerz7, Desperado}
{Isomorphic, Andrius, Shaziro}
{shaddowez, SlySly, All Alone}
{Pine, XnadrojX}
{Persivul}

Pretty much where I'm at.

[-Grey-]

(Subject to change wildly and repeatedly.)

[-Grey-]

Explain your read on Persivul?

His ISO is 95% about/revolving around mechanics, with a dash of d2 shading thrown in for good measure.

[-Grey-]

I love how Vecna's reads list involves calling everyone a lurker/scum.

Zomg he must be scumz!

[-Grey-]

Explain your read on Persivul?

His ISO is 95% about/revolving around mechanics, with a dash of d2 shading thrown in for good measure.

This is correct, and concerned me. Then I checked Curse of Strahd. He did the same thing there, and was town...but here are the differences. Make of them as you will.

He had a -very- low posting rate early in Curse of Strahd, lower than he has in this game especially.
Curse of Strahd had a weird questing mechanic, which was the focus of the first portion of the first day.
Lastly, of course, a different playerlist and potentially (likely) a different role.

Was his mechanics discussion about the game mechanics, or general mafia theory?

That in itself could be a telling difference.

[-Grey-]

Mix of both, Grey

If he was talking game mechanics here, I'd get it. It's d1, people need to acclimate.

But he's discussing mafia theory to fake content.

Can't townread that.

[-Grey-]

Mix of both, Grey

If he was talking game mechanics here, I'd get it. It's d1, people need to acclimate.

But he's discussing mafia theory to fake content.

Can't townread that.

I can't townread it either, but I don't think I can scumread it. Especially not as full scumread as you appear to have.

It's the most I have to work with at this point.

Obviously, it's not whole hog ZOMGKILLITWITHFIRE, as I'm still voting Jordan.

[-Grey-]

I love how Vecna's reads list involves calling everyone a lurker/scum.

Zomg he must be scumz!

Him or me?

It was a sarcastic response about Vecna in response to your shading.

[-Grey-]

Grey, why not instead vote on Iso, the caught scum?

Counter-question: Why was my read on Persivul your primary concern and take precedence over my conflicting read on "caught scum" Iso?

[-Grey-]

I just realised, how does grey get Mafia Scum title and join date is Nov 26 2016

[-Grey-]

Grey, why not instead vote on Iso, the caught scum?

Counter-question: Why was my read on Persivul your primary concern and take precedence over my conflicting read on "caught scum" Iso?

I could say "I asked you first", but I won't.

I didn't think Persivul had done anything particularly scummy, so I thought it was weird that he was your most scummy scumread. It stuck out at my first glance of your reads, so I asked.

Yes, and I get that.

What strikes me as off was that my Iso townread didn't scream for your attention since you're so sold on them being scum.

My read can't be that surprising to you, considering my soft-defense of them earlier.

Alisae had plenty of motive to sell out my play as being scum motivated and people like drealmerz would have eaten up every letter of it.

Him going against the popular consensus feels town. If I'm pocketed, it'll wear off when he gets involved in stuff that isn't about me, but I'm leaning town.

[-Grey-]

Eh. Swap Jordan and Pets in my reads.

[-Grey-]

Pers*

[-Grey-]

{Vecna, drealmerz7, Desperado}
{Isomorphic, Andrius, Shaziro}
{shaddowez, SlySly, All Alone}
{Pine, Persivul}
{XnadrojX}

Pretty much where I'm at.

I was originally on the Jordan wagon to keep my vote in play because I don't like it idling, but his hard stance on AA who has a whopping four posts, the last of which is voting him, is just bad.

[-Grey-]

I don't think not going for an opportunistic lynch means they're town, and I think you're ignoring the blatantly scummy shit they've pulled when interacting with me. That is, after all, stuff that isn't about you. Re-read it, tell me that isn't scum desperately trying to find some reason to discredit me when I started to suspect them.

He flailed a bit.

Town flails too.

Can you point out the scum motivation in his actions? Cuz all I see is superficially scummy actions, and where is the scum motivation in advertising on d1?

I'm a bit skeptical of an Ali wagon right now because he's an easy target on d1. He can be an asset to town later in the game if he is town, so I'd rather not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

If he's lynched and flips scum, praise Jesus and pass the butter. I'll accept that it makes me look like a horrible human being. But I'll need more than this to vote him personally.

[-Grey-]

Grey, what is causing you to like desperado so much?

I'm vibing with his analysis. A few times I wanted to quote his post and simply respond "+1".

He isn't using mistakes and bad assumptions as opportunities to shade and create doubt.

His Pine vote was odd to me, but he explained where I derped.

[-Grey-]

Do you think that scum can't tip their hand on accident, or do you genuinely believe in the idea of being "too scummy to be scum", for one. The second one...how do you know it was Ali posting on the hydra?

One answer. Not the first game we've played together.

Also, Alisae's English and comprehension is 100x better than keyenpeydee's.

[-Grey-]

I was gonna list off posts and play guess the author, but I think pretty much everything after 13 has been Alisae so far.

[-Grey-]

A couple one-liners might have been keyenpeydee, bit it flows well with Ali's narrative.

[-Grey-]

Cool, lets get iso wagoned then

VOTE: Isomorphism

Everyone sheep

I love you like a brother.

During the Civil War.

[-Grey-]

So while I wouldn't be surprised if you don't care, you're not gonna shift my read an iota with your meta based on a guess at the author.

Wasn't my intention.

My guess is you were wondering how genuine my read was, so I was trying to give you a feel for that.

What you do with that information is entirely up to you.

[-Grey-]

That was way too much posting last night. It will take some time for me to get through it. One thing I did notice is that Shaz's 226 pinged me as the same IIoA he did as scum in strahd, but it seems isolated. After that he looked much better, willing to ruffle some feathers.

It took me like 10 minutes. The time it took you to write that complaining post you allready couldve gotten halfway.

Posts like this always score so damn high on my scum radar its unreal.

I mean yeah, but, TBF, town bitches too.

[-Grey-]

^ see that? He'd rather lynch me than have two confirmed town tomorrow.

Is your ability 1X? Do you die if you target scum? If so, are you really going to use it tonight? And if yes, why haven't you talked about the cop-like aspect, i.e. naming your target so they're implicated if you die? You don't seem to have thought through the possibilities much at all. Why not?

So Persivul,

Why did you expect me to have a target in 100 posts of d1?

Why so eager to shade me at the end of your post instead of waiting for me to answer and basing your opinion on the analysis of that answer?

[-Grey-]

Why did you expect me to have a target in 100 posts of d1?

I didn't. I wouldn't expect you to have a target at all by N1. The point being...why did you say repeatedly that you'd be confirmed by D2? IIRC you said that you were looking forward to it even before the wagon started and you claimed. How so? If it were me I'd be afraid of hitting scum and dying. You can use the role in a cop-like way by announcing your target beforehand, but you didn't mention that possibility until I brought it up. Further, if you miss scum and your partner confirms you're close to conf town, but as noted previously you've come out too early to be effective, and have put targets on you and your partner's backs. Sorry, but your story doesn't add up.

You make it sound like it's impossible to develop a townread on d1, that's just silly.

And you bringing up using the role like a cop isn't original, it's implicit considering targeting scum kills me.

Tell me more about who has a target on their head besides me.

[-Grey-]

Why

so eager to shade me

at the end of your post instead of waiting for me to answer and basing your opinion on the analysis of that answer?

This is so fucking hilarious...you just did the exact thing that you're accusing me with doing.

Asking you why you shaded me isn't shading.

[-Grey-]

I mean come on, here I am with this big, shiny Masonry just waiting for me d2, right?

Then town gets a wild hair up their ass to wagon me for no fucking reason


Yeah. It pissed me off.

Here's the post. You say that,

before

the wagon and your claim, you were planning on a masonry for D2. You don't consider the possibility of dying by hitting scum. You only mitigate that chance by claiming masonizer and naming a target before end of D1, so that your death would be like an investigate. But, in role madness, that could easily go wrong - think scum redirector. It makes no sense that you thought you could keep quiet about your role, yet safely avoid scum on just 1 day's posting and have a big shiny masonry on D2.

That's a lot to think through, and I would have liked it better if you said that you just hadn't thought it through. I gave you that chance, but in 185 you seem to be saying that you had indeed thought it through.

I'll say it again.

I completely thought it through.

[-Grey-]

ITT: Persivul wants to dig into my reasons for doing what I did, which could lead to information for am to direct their actions.

[-Grey-]

ITT: Persivul wants to dig into my reasons for doing what I did, which could lead to information for scum to direct their actions.

[-Grey-]

Shaziro, still question my read?

[-Grey-]

Suck it up, buttercup.

[-Grey-]

Why do people keep mentioning that game like it's a thing I should know?

Should I know about this game?

I feel I should know about this game.

[-Grey-]

I noticed the player list was damned near a carbon copy.

[-Grey-]

Agreed with 456.

My death would have no bearing on dreal's alignment.

[-Grey-]

{Vecna, drealmerz7, Desperado}
{Isomorphic, Andrius, Shaziro}
{shaddowez, SlySly, All Alone}
{Pine, XnadrojX}
{Persivul}

Pretty much where I'm at.

it's like you copied my paper but changed just a couple things so no one would think you're cheating

swap andrius and nadroj, put Persivul in the middle, and drop Isomoprhic down and we're right there

If I was cheating, I went from an A to a D, if your paper got 100.

[-Grey-]

{Vecna, drealmerz7, Desperado}
{Isomorphic, Andrius, Shaziro}
{shaddowez, SlySly, All Alone}
{Pine, XnadrojX}
{Persivul}

Pretty much where I'm at.

it's like you copied my paper but changed just a couple things so no one would think you're cheating

swap andrius and nadroj, put Persivul in the middle, and drop Isomoprhic down and we're right there

Care to do some horse trading?

I'll give you Andrius if you give me Iso.

Refunds available with receipt, of course.

[-Grey-]

In Shaz v. Iso, Shaz continues to look good. Iso, not so much.

Yep, he looks terrible alright.

[-Grey-]

Grey, why do you have Persivul on the bottom of your reads list? His play looks like what I'm used to from him, and even looking at it the most cynically I can I can't find it to be AI.

That's pretty much it, shaddowez. He put out plenty of posts... that were completely NAI.

[-Grey-]

Grey, why do you have Persivul on the bottom of your reads list? His play looks like what I'm used to from him, and even looking at it the most cynically I can I can't find it to be AI.

That's pretty much it, shaddowez. He put out plenty of posts... that were completely NAI.

Addendum: This does seem to be changing. I'll be revaluations him later on.


Reads lists are not Bibles, people.

[-Grey-]

Reevaluating*

[-Grey-]

P-Edit: So why is a NAI player scum instead of Null? More specifically, why is he scummier than other players that have put out scummy content?

Because the effort expended in being unreadable.

[-Grey-]

More specifically, why is he scummier than other players that have put out scummy content?

It's d1. The only "scummy content" is superficial scumminess... which scum tends to avoid.

Next level shit, huh?

[-Grey-]

One of the biggest problems I see in games is that the clumsy, antitown players are routinely offered up as sacrifice to the mislynch gods on d1, and are summarily blamed for their own lynch instead of people taking responsibility for their bad votes.

[-Grey-]

Desperado, who is scum and why aren't you voting them?

[-Grey-]

didn't we just talk about our reads? i'm confused

Yeah, just didn't see your vote in my ISO scan.

Sorry.

[-Grey-]

Reads, Pers?

[-Grey-]

I am a SAAAAAD panda.

[-Grey-]

Reads, Pers?

You, dreal, shaz, vecna: town to some degree
Andrius, desperado: I wouldn't vote them rn
Iso: only person with significant posts that I find scummy
And the rest: need more content

This reads list looks fake.

It's nearly a mirror image of my townreads, and the lynch du jour as the sole scumread.

He can rule out Andrius as a Lynch five posts, but zero opinion on Jordan?

Ew.

[-Grey-]

Do you think your reads are bad?

I think people typically don't mirror my townreads.

Even Desperado disagreed about a couple, and he's the closest person on this game that I've been giving with.

And we have NOT been vibing.

So no. I don't think my reads are bad. Your list is.

[-Grey-]

What would look real?

Controversial looks real.

Different perspective looks real.

Real looks real.

"Me too" does not look real.

[-Grey-]

When I voted, Iso had 2 votes on him, while jordan had 4. Why do you refer to Iso as "the lynch du jour"?

You're damned well experienced enough to be able to identify momentum.

Jordan was losing momentum. Iso was gaining momentum, AND had both of the strong town voices on it.

[-Grey-]

Where I agree with you, that's bad.

To the extent you did, and from out of nowhere when we have very different perspectives on the game state, yes. It is.

[-Grey-]

Where I disagree with you, that's bad.

When it's on a convenient wagon building on an easy target, yes. It is.

[-Grey-]

Which reads of yours are controversial?

Not paying attention to the game, are we?

[-Grey-]

So your list looks fake, because desperado thought yours was too much like his. Or is it different when you do it?

We disagreed on FIVE READS.

Sling more shade, punk.

[-Grey-]

So your list looks fake, because desperado thought yours was too much like his. Or is it different when you do it?

We disagreed on FIVE READS.

Sling more shade, punk.

Not to mention, PRETTY SURE I'M THE ONE THAT POSTED READS.

Unless you want to quote his reads list that I cheated off of, as he so jokingly hinted.

Shade slinging scum.

[-Grey-]

Where is my vote, anyway?

Should be here:

VOTE: Persivul

[-Grey-]

On top of being unable to satisfactorily answer for his reads list, Persivul was the one digging for details about my role.

I nearly posted a full-claim until I realized that would negate any positive utility that remained.

There was no town motivation whatsoever in him continuing to question me about my role. It only served to inform scum.

[-Grey-]

I think you lean an awful lot on things that have nothing to do with this game.

[-Grey-]

Desperado - his posting hasn't accomplished much, but I like his reads.

But you don't seem to care that your reads are p much opposite on Andrius.

You're not the least bit concerned about how he found Andrius scummy in five posts when you read Andrius as town?

[-Grey-]

I want to say, having not looked yet, that he did lean on meta and the way people performed in recent games.

I think he's leaning on it like a crutch here, though.

He hasn't even seemed to consider that maybe people are intentionally mimicking their Strahd play. As much as he loves to lean on that game, it's the obvious scum play to pocket him.

[-Grey-]

dreal - feels just like he did in strahd, and he was town there.

Andrius - same as dreal, but since he only has a few posts, he's on a lower tier.

1+1 = 2 words

you're scum

[-Grey-]

{Vecna, drealmerz7, Desperado}
{Isomorphic, Andrius, Shaziro}
{shaddowez, SlySly, All Alone}
{Pine, XnadrojX}
{Persivul}

Pretty much where I'm at.

it's like you copied my paper but changed just a couple things so no one would think you're cheating

swap andrius and nadroj, put Persivul in the middle, and drop Isomoprhic down and we're right there

If I was cheating, I went from an A to a D, if your paper got 100.

Haha, why werent u this much fun in PYP Grey?

I don't want to disrespect the mod because he put a lot of work into the game, I just couldn't get into it.

[-Grey-]

I think he's leaning on it like a crutch here, though.

He hasn't even seemed to consider that maybe people are intentionally mimicking their Strahd play. As much as he loves to lean on that game, it's the obvious scum play to pocket him.

Grey, we've only been at this for two calendar days. There's only so much to analyze. Meta is a starting point until people talk more.

That's a fair point and all, but I think there's a good amount going on.

[-Grey-]

Granted, I suffer from the debilitation of not having been a Strahd veteran.

[-Grey-]

Desperado - his posting hasn't accomplished much, but I like his reads.

But you don't seem to care that your reads are p much opposite on Andrius.

You're not the least bit concerned about how he found Andrius scummy in five posts when you read Andrius as town?

You, dreal, shaz, vecna: town to some degree
Andrius, desperado: I wouldn't vote them rn

How do you see me as town reading Andrius, or having no concerns about desperado, from this?

Why question me about how I know about your townread instead of simply address my question?

[-Grey-]

I've shown, clearly, that your question is faulty. You said I read Andrius as town. My reads list has a "town to some degree" category. Andrius is not in that category. You're reading what you want to see, rather than what's actually there. Same with desperado.

Split hairs all you want, it doesn't change my point that you have Andrius as North of null and are not at all curious about why Desperado scumreads him.

Hair splitting is one of my fav scumtells, btw.

[-Grey-]

Excuse factory in full production.

[-Grey-]

{Vecna, drealmerz7, Desperado}
{Isomorphic, Andrius, Shaziro}
{shaddowez, SlySly, All Alone}
{Pine, XnadrojX}
{Persivul}

Pretty much where I'm at.

it's like you copied my paper but changed just a couple things so no one would think you're cheating

swap andrius and nadroj, put Persivul in the middle, and drop Isomoprhic down and we're right there

So, there's Desperado's reads.

Then sell me on it because I don't believe you.

At least one of your heads is pinging my scumdar a little so I don't feel the need to convince you. I'm not giving up my reads on Andrius so easily, he's a tricky one. My reads are stronger than your gut. I have a lot of recent history with Andrius.

Andrius feels the same here as he did in strahd, and he was town there.

You're obviously active. Oh wait, you're responding to content hundreds of posts ago, right?

I love you like a brother.

During the Civil War.

Good line.

You're almost caught up! (Thanks btw!)

VOTE: Isomorphic

I think it's a fair assumption that you read his post by this point.

[-Grey-]

What will come next, ladies and gentlemen?

Stay tuned!

[-Grey-]

The clumsy anti-town players also never take responsibility for their own actions and blame everyone else for their deaths, refusing to re-evaluate their own play.
You can't blame people for not taking responsibility for "bad votes" and at the same time refuse to take the "clumsy antitown players" to task for refusing to take responsibility for their own play which led to their death.

We're not just rolling DICE TAGS here to lynch people. People are lynched for a reason.

Perfect example of self-righteous bile.

It's the victim's fault you jump to conclusions over superficial bullshit and ignore the blinding truth that the crap you're lynching someone for on d1 is the last damned thing scum would actually do, which is the very reason mislynches are the defacto standard on d1.

[-Grey-]

Which reads of yours are controversial?

Not paying attention to the game, are we?

I'm not either! Does that mean I'm scum?

Scum don't have to read. It's a factor.

Well they do, but for entirely different reasons.

[-Grey-]

My wagon has Grey who I TR but absolutely disagree with his vote on me. He has said jack shit about me except that I am scum. No reasoning at all.

Yeah, I hate that too. Fair point.

I'll talk about my read on your slot soon.

[-Grey-]

Okay so...

After reading 229, I ISO'd you and noticed the witch claim.

I was still grudging on dreal, so it took me a bit of time to give up that vote. I voted you because of that witch claim, a newfound suspicion of your dreal vote because of my flipped read on him, and the consideration that Shaziro might have a point about your self-vote.

[-Grey-]

I mean, I kinda agreed with what he said about your dreal vote, so...

[-Grey-]

Point being that i meant for it to fly under the radar? Ive gone through all of this but I guess I can see how you scumread me.

The cheeky scum remark in itself isn't what set me off.

It was the fact it was combined with content that pinged me.

Like, I make loads of cheeky scum posts as town myself, when the mood strikes me, but I don't embed them in posts with content because my mood doesn't lend itself to gamesolving when I'm feeling cheeky.

So when I see someone do both, it pings.

[-Grey-]

Well damn. I misunderstood the aspects of my modifier.

Full disclosure

: I am "Stubborn". This means that nothing can interfere with my attempt to Masonize (ie, can't be roleblocked or redirected). However, it also means that nobody can intercede on my behalf (Macho).

When I first got my role, I misunderstood what was meant by "nothing can interfere" and jumped to conclusions.

Sorry.

[-Grey-]

Yes.

[-Grey-]

sorry for what grey?

as far as i can tell all of that means you are guaranteed to masonize town or die trying, which means no ~shenanigans~

I claimed thinking I'd be safe until the Masonry was formed.

I wasn't aware I'd be a sitting duck or I'd have kept my mouth shut.

[-Grey-]

sorry for what grey?

as far as i can tell all of that means you are guaranteed to masonize town or die trying, which means no ~shenanigans~

I claimed thinking I'd be safe until the Masonry was formed.

I wasn't aware I'd be a sitting duck or I'd have kept my mouth shut.

Yes your claim is problematic because of options I wont go into

It's all academic at this point.

Nothing more that can be gained from discussing it until d2, at any rate.

[-Grey-]

I think you shouldnt announce your target and ill just sent you a first aid package to deal with other annoyances that dont involve trying to cuddle up to a large bear

Don't. Give it to someone that can actually use it.

I don't want town to die because a shiny was wasted on me.

[-Grey-]

I'm MACHO.

You know what that means, right?

[-Grey-]

Glad we're on the same page now, lol.

[-Grey-]

Yeah, who do you take him for?

Me?

[-Grey-]

(just kinda hoping scum dont have a roleblock)

If they didn't, my "Stubborn" modifier is a word choice.

[-Grey-]

You know what I can build out of wood though? A nice stake to go all buffy the vampire slayer on your naysaying ass.

I prefer pitchforks.

[-Grey-]

Eh. Nothing beats a good sword fight.

[-Grey-]

I just got schooled.

[-Grey-]

I have a theory and it's that maybe Grey and dreal are both scum together because I can see their fight as SvS rather than TvS or TvT.

Lol.

I have an exercise for you, Alisae.

Post one example of where I've fought with a scum buddy.

[-Grey-]

Oh if dreal is your scumbuddy, infighting does come naturally, whether its in your playstyle or not

I've been scum with RC and resisted the urge (we're murderous towards each other as town)

I think I'd manage.

[-Grey-]

I have a theory and it's that maybe Grey and dreal are both scum together because I can see their fight as SvS rather than TvS or TvT.

Lol.

I have an exercise for you, Alisae.

Post one example of where I've fought with a scum buddy.

This is Keyen speaking.

I should have known that Ali would know better.

[-Grey-]

Grey, your meta on that slot just got blown out of the water even more than it already was in my mind. You've just proven you can't actually tell the difference.

Hence 643.

Let's see how alert you are when you're on your second day with no sleep.

I think I function pretty well, but shit happens.

[-Grey-]

Besides, I don't think I've exactly thrown myself on the tracks to derail the train on them.

My d1 reads suck, so I don't trust them. But I'm not going to participate in the Lynch of a friend when I know he's an easy target on d1.

Whatever you make of that, oh well.

[-Grey-]

Since people like banging that Strahd drum, I'm going to play my own little tune.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69849

Really, look at Alisae's play in that game. It was atrocious d1. (Sorry bro, but it's true)

Then he turned into a scumhunting Rambo.

So, yeah. That game bought him some d1 grace in my eyes.

[-Grey-]

Not really interested in anything you have to say when you're handwaving me.

[-Grey-]

I absolutely do not buy that Shaziro is so damned certain Iso will flip scum over a bad interaction on d1.

It's superficial bullshit, and the level of vitriol he has for them just doesn't feel genuine.

[-Grey-]

Totes.

[-Grey-]

Shaziro is in a win/win situation here.

If Iso flips scum, I was hard defending my buddy on d1 (because that's a thing, apparently)

If Iso flips town, I was just wk'ing him.

[-Grey-]

grey i can dig the town paranoia but i think it's a lot simpler...he just thinks your reason for not wanting is dead right now is really bad

because it is

That's fine and dandy, because I think his reason for wanting Iso dead is terrible.

[-Grey-]

Come down from your fences, and open the gate.

I've been accused of a lot of shit, but never anything to do with fences or my position around them.

I think where I stand on things is pretty clear.

[-Grey-]

In other news,

VOTE: Iso

Because I'm a fickle bitch and I changed my mind.

[-Grey-]

Yes, the irony has not escaped me.

I'm exhausted. Leave me alone.

[-Grey-]

UNVOTE:

[-Grey-]

uhhhh then wtf did you self-vote?

that is scummmm move only ever

FORBIDDEN for good townies

VOTE: drealmerz7

Kinda feeling this.

[-Grey-]

pedit: Grey why?

Smells like gloating scum.

[-Grey-]

he was pretty townie in largenormal 200 too, as a PR, so I am wondering what is up with him but it could be just playing guarded, as he was a bit guarded in early 200 if I remember correctly

I find vecna, isomo, and grey to have a lot more scummy content

Vecna?

Seriously?

[-Grey-]

The thing that bugs me about Alone is that there's plenty of stuff going on - even fake hammers - but he's oblivious to everything but jordan.

VOTE: All Alone

my wincon isn't to voice my irrelevant opinion on every little thing that happens

my wincon is to kill scum

Apparently, your opinion isn't as irrelevant as you think.

Doesn't that give you warm fuzzies?

[-Grey-]

Swear to god?! Are you Andrius' buddy?

How is blasphemy AI, exactly?

[-Grey-]

Swear to god?! Are you Andrius' buddy?

How is blasphemy AI, exactly?

It's not necessarily, but it does suggest the devotion level. A level that deep seems like one of family.

Interesting perspective, actually.

[-Grey-]

Alisae posted today.

[-Grey-]

Why did you vote me in the first place again?

Because I'm a fickle bitch

[-Grey-]

drealmerz negotiated the paranoia vote issue like a career politician.

He's the only one left without a Paranoia vote.

[-Grey-]

I am Masonizing YOU tonight.

Good idea unless scumDrealmz gets lynched today. If that happens, I might be looking at you differently if someone else can't confirm you tomorrow.

Shit,

I'll

be looking at me differently tomorrow.

[-Grey-]

My death would have no bearing on dreal's alignment.

If you attempted to mason scumDrealmz, wouldn't you die?

I would also die if I tried to Masonize town!Dreal and got shot by scum.

Besides, that was me saying I wasn't Masonizing him.

[-Grey-]

So youre bound to die while targeting scum, even if I protect you with a first aid kit?

(yes dont ask why, but apparently im a very skilled carpenter).

Fishy, fishy. Vecna scum points++

Disagree. I put information out to avoid wasting protection roles. He was responding to that.

[-Grey-]

Are you referring to one post in particular?

Yeah. 589

[-Grey-]

#top