Most likely/realistically the wagon got a couple votes before melting away to join wagons with actual reasoning.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 97, Infinity 324 wrote:But you could just say "I have a strong gut scumread on x but I'm having difficulty explaining it. If a wagon pops up on x, I'll join it."
That's fine. But remember this. Gut reads do not materialize from thin air. They are an expression of your subconscious mind trying to tell you something is off. Engage with X, find what it was trying to tell you, put it down in words and turn that nebulous gut read into a real, firm
case
. And THEN you can start/join the wagon and it will likely attract other players too.
That's great in theory, but it doesn't always work out unfortunately. Especially when you're dealing with strong scum players.
In post 0, wgeurts wrote:Many people simply don't do the above as they can't be assed to do so. This is horrific! The amount of times I've seen someone state they don't read walls, won't go through ISO's, or won't look at someone else's posts is insane. And nobody says something about it! When you sign up for a game you have signed up knowing you should be investing time and effort, not doing so is technically playing against your win-condition and should as such not be tolerated at all. You should always be reading every posts, not just reading actually, but analysing! Multiple times preferably! If you are too lazy to do this replace out, you're a hindrance to the game.
this is one of the most true things I have ever read in my entire time on this site.
mafia is not meant to be a game that is tolerant of people half-assing the game because "it's fun for them"; mafia is a game that by definition requires substantial time/effort in order to play. if you half-ass games, unless you're in a player list saturated with people who do this and won't give a shit, you are hindering the game for those people who do devote the effort into playing the game properly and are attempting to get enjoyment out of the game by, IDK, actually playing the game. this is not to say that everyone ever needs to put an absurd amount of effort into games, or make flawless pushes with flawless cases, or avoid gut reads or anything; all you even need to do is read and think and be open to considering possibilities and legitimately put the best effort you think you can give into finding scum - that is the most important thing here (intent as Nahdia said) and while I don't really agree with "everything needs to be explained ever", the amount of people who blatantly just don't even try to put effort into games when they clearly could be is ridiculous.
a player who actually wants to find scum, just based on the fact they are actually playing the game and wanting to find scum, is 100% more of an asset than a player who doesn't give a shit even when they're not capable of putting a high amount of effort into the game or putting all of their reads into words
First of all, Infinity, how do you think a gut read forms? I mean on a cognitive level, how does your brain send the gut signals to you?
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 0, wgeurts wrote:Many people simply don't do the above as they can't be assed to do so. This is horrific! The amount of times I've seen someone state they don't read walls, won't go through ISO's, or won't look at someone else's posts is insane. And nobody says something about it! When you sign up for a game you have signed up knowing you should be investing time and effort, not doing so is technically playing against your win-condition and should as such not be tolerated at all. You should always be reading every posts, not just reading actually, but analysing! Multiple times preferably! If you are too lazy to do this replace out, you're a hindrance to the game.
this is one of the most true things I have ever read in my entire time on this site.
mafia is not meant to be a game that is tolerant of people half-assing the game because "it's fun for them"; mafia is a game that by definition requires substantial time/effort in order to play. if you half-ass games, unless you're in a player list saturated with people who do this and won't give a shit, you are hindering the game for those people who do devote the effort into playing the game properly and are attempting to get enjoyment out of the game by, IDK, actually playing the game. this is not to say that everyone ever needs to put an absurd amount of effort into games, or make flawless pushes with flawless cases, or avoid gut reads or anything; all you even need to do is read and think and be open to considering possibilities and legitimately put the best effort you think you can give into finding scum - that is the most important thing here (intent as Nahdia said) and while I don't really agree with "everything needs to be explained ever", the amount of people who blatantly just don't even try to put effort into games when they clearly could be is ridiculous.
a player who actually wants to find scum, just based on the fact they are actually playing the game and wanting to find scum, is 100% more of an asset than a player who doesn't give a shit even when they're not capable of putting a high amount of effort into the game or putting all of their reads into words
just because you put in more effort doesn't make you more useful
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
thank you for your insightful, if totally not rude or condescending input... never mind the fact that had you actually read my post you would see that I stated the exact opposite of the point you're attempting to argue against...
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
I mean you don't see the people who read via gut and stuff close to it (I wouldn't call my optimal gameplay 'gut' but it's similar) beating down on the people who post cases and walls.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
That's because those who are posting cases actually have something others can utilise and discuss, also furthering their own goals. If you never post a case you are really doing something wrong.
If you're using gut reads and also not participating in discussion of others posts then you're doing something doubly wrong, gut is not a ticket to not having to participate.
Cases matter because the 'current site meta' (meant in a loose sense) requires you to post reasons to lynch people. In a universe where it didn't I would never post them.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
In post 116, RadiantCowbells wrote:Cases matter because the 'current site meta' (meant in a loose sense) requires you to post reasons to lynch people. In a universe where it didn't I would never post them.
Rationally speaking if you want to lynch someone it's best to explain why. Else this game would simply be a bunch of random votes. Without explanation there wouldn't be scum-hunting and town reads to form off content, only VCA.
In post 116, RadiantCowbells wrote:Cases matter because the 'current site meta' (meant in a loose sense) requires you to post reasons to lynch people. In a universe where it didn't I would never post them.
Rationally speaking if you want to lynch someone it's best to explain why. Else this game would simply be a bunch of random votes. Without explanation there wouldn't be scum-hunting and town reads to form off content, only VCA.
There's more to the game than analyzing reads and VCA and I think that those are in many ways the least useful part of the game because skilled players fool them easily.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
You can try to wagon someone else as town without explaining why but you then fail to achieve the following:
Actually convince people as to why that slot is scum.
Skip the opportunity for others to assess your read and allow you to rethink.
Skip the opportunity for the one being wagoned to defend themselves.
So not only are you not going to get anywhere, you'll also be skipping all fail-safes. Not doing so is literally awful play.
RC, if nobody posts any reasons everything will be shitposting irrelevant to the game and accusations of alignment + votes. You'd be handicapping yourself.
Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0