Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[Random Nurse]

Could we please add a role that negates or removes a/all modifiers from their target?

Say a PR that can strip away "Bulletproof" status. Like a Scum "Interceptor" or "Hacker." Something that can manipulate to remove a beneficial modifier.

That sounds like TLich's Renegade.
Edit: Actually, I misread.

Your idea could work as a variation of Vanillaiser.

The closest role of mine to straight up removing a player's role modifiers is a Coach.

A Coach allows a player to act without interference by role modifiers if they want to.

I just feel that Scum should have a way to counter a strong modifier like BP, as much as I like playing as one. Like a role that can either remove/negate the modifier(s) entirely, or another variation that can turn it into a 1-shot instead for applicable modifiers.

This inflexibility is a weakness, not a strength.

In time I'll run large themed games.

I think that's the intention of Normal games.
Themes and Opens allow more flexibility but Normals generally tend to be more similar to 'regular' Mafia. (i.e. no modular mechanics like items)

That I do understand, yet another part of me wants to see evolution over time.

Perhaps 3 separate sections could be made? One that's strictly Normal, one that's strictly for themed games, and then a section in the middle where the BASE game is essentially strict Normal, but then built upon it are slight theme-like variations as decoration on that cake. For example I'd like to see a Large Normal with individual players earning $$$ each Night to buy actions or information, but I don't want to make a whole honking complicated Themed game, so like something much more in the middle.

Like make it a spectrum.

[Random Nurse]

I mean, yeah, there SHOULD be a main section that focuses solely on strict Normal play that doesn't scare away newbies.

I just think there should be like a second main section between Strict Normal and Fullblown Themed, and that it would have its own defining constraints as well.

[RH9]

I mean, yeah, there SHOULD be a main section that focuses solely on strict Normal play that doesn't scare away newbies.

I just think there should be like a second main section between Strict Normal and Fullblown Themed, and that it would have its own defining constraints as well.

That sounds like pretty much like a significant portion of current Large Theme games.
In that, because Normals have been generally pretty restrictive in mechanics, there are a significant amount of Large Themes that are Normal in the base of the setup but non-Normal mechanics-wise.
Take Prism's Invictus Redux as an example. Roles are almost all Normal but mechanics aren't.

[RH9]

Another example would be Datisi's large themes.
(If my memory isn't messed up.)

[RH9]

And bianco's Mini Theme, Blood over Utopia.

[Datisi]

Another example would be Datisi's large themes.
(If my memory isn't messed up.)

pretty much, yeah. other than an occasional doublevoter or "if you target a hood you join the hood" role, my large themes are mostly just Spicy Normals, role-wise.

I'd like to see a Large Normal with individual players earning $$$ each Night to buy actions or information, but I don't want to make a whole honking complicated Themed game

oh hey this premise kinda sounds like my theme games.


while i love all kinds of spectrums, i don't think shoving a 3rd category in here would be helpful. the kinds of games that can be run in the theme queue are *already* a spectrum. like, if you want to run this game, you don't have to make it "more complicated" to have it run in the theme queue. look at fakegod's theme games, those are usually much simpler than your average normal.

like... what's with this aversion to modding a theme game? you don't have to make is super complicated.

[Random Nurse]

Another example would be Datisi's large themes.
(If my memory isn't messed up.)

pretty much, yeah. other than an occasional doublevoter or "if you target a hood you join the hood" role, my large themes are mostly just Spicy Normals, role-wise.

I'd like to see a Large Normal with individual players earning $$$ each Night to buy actions or information, but I don't want to make a whole honking complicated Themed game

oh hey this premise kinda sounds like my theme games.


while i love all kinds of spectrums, i don't think shoving a 3rd category in here would be helpful. the kinds of games that can be run in the theme queue are *already* a spectrum. like, if you want to run this game, you don't have to make it "more complicated" to have it run in the theme queue. look at fakegod's theme games, those are usually much simpler than your average normal.

like... what's with this aversion to modding a theme game? you don't have to make is super complicated.

My plan was to run a mini Normal and then a Large Normal to shake off the rust of game-modding, and then get into modding Large Themed games.

What I like are truly complicated games but I don't particularly want to do so through power but with information, which is why I like Informed statuses, Neighborhoods, various factions, etc. Like a very intricate, detail-oriented game with lots of subtlety.

[DragonEater70]

Another example would be Datisi's large themes.
(If my memory isn't messed up.)

pretty much, yeah. other than an occasional doublevoter or "if you target a hood you join the hood" role, my large themes are mostly just Spicy Normals, role-wise.

I'd like to see a Large Normal with individual players earning $$$ each Night to buy actions or information, but I don't want to make a whole honking complicated Themed game

oh hey this premise kinda sounds like my theme games.


while i love all kinds of spectrums, i don't think shoving a 3rd category in here would be helpful. the kinds of games that can be run in the theme queue are *already* a spectrum. like, if you want to run this game, you don't have to make it "more complicated" to have it run in the theme queue. look at fakegod's theme games, those are usually much simpler than your average normal.

like... what's with this aversion to modding a theme game? you don't have to make is super complicated.

My plan was to run a mini Normal and then a Large Normal to shake off the rust of game-modding, and then get into modding Large Themed games.

What I like are truly complicated games but I don't particularly want to do so through power but with information, which is why I like Informed statuses, Neighborhoods, various factions, etc. Like a very intricate, detail-oriented game with lots of subtlety.

Then can I interest you in running a theme game together? I very much enjoy modding these kinds of games and I have some ideas that could make it a great theme game.

[RH9]

Another example would be Datisi's large themes.
(If my memory isn't messed up.)

pretty much, yeah. other than an occasional doublevoter or "if you target a hood you join the hood" role, my large themes are mostly just Spicy Normals, role-wise.

I'd like to see a Large Normal with individual players earning $$$ each Night to buy actions or information, but I don't want to make a whole honking complicated Themed game

oh hey this premise kinda sounds like my theme games.


while i love all kinds of spectrums, i don't think shoving a 3rd category in here would be helpful. the kinds of games that can be run in the theme queue are *already* a spectrum. like, if you want to run this game, you don't have to make it "more complicated" to have it run in the theme queue. look at fakegod's theme games, those are usually much simpler than your average normal.

like... what's with this aversion to modding a theme game? you don't have to make is super complicated.

My plan was to run a mini Normal and then a Large Normal to shake off the rust of game-modding, and then get into modding Large Themed games.

What I like are truly complicated games but I don't particularly want to do so through power but with information, which is why I like Informed statuses, Neighborhoods, various factions, etc. Like a very intricate, detail-oriented game with lots of subtlety.

Then can I interest you in running a theme game together? I very much enjoy modding these kinds of games and I have some ideas that could make it a great theme game.

Going on a tangent, I can help review if you want.

[RH9]

Though, TBH my views are more or less aligned with Datisi's.

[DragonEater70]

Well if Nurse agrees then I would love for you to review it.

[Random Nurse]

Well if Nurse agrees then I would love for you to review it.

I would be OK with it.

I do tend to have a lot of ideas that push the boundaries, and I like trying new ideas.

[Random Nurse]

I know it was stopped earlier, but is there any way these proposed roles could be trialed in Normal games? If they were in, say, specific Normal games and it didn't make much difference, could that hasten the approval of said roles/modifiers? Otherwise, without trialing, how exactly do they get whitelisted for Normal play?

[Ythan]

You could try running them in a theme game.

[Random Nurse]

You could try running them in a theme game.

While true, would that hasten them being added into Normal games?

[Ythan]

I am not sure that is a priority most users share.

[RH9]

I am not sure that is a priority most users share.

Agreed.

[camelCasedSnivy]

i have a question: can day x informed roles learn about past game events?

for example: day 2 informed townie [you know that a mafia rolecop performed the kill on night 1]

[RH9]

i have a question: can day x informed roles learn about past game events?

for example: day 2 informed townie [you know that a mafia rolecop performed the kill on night 1]

I don't think so as Informed messages are generally prepared in the design stage.
(Also, preparing an Informed message midgame doesn't feel like something that belongs in the Normal Queue.)

[biancospino]

But, leaning into that, can one have a day/night x Informed that receives one of several

preprepared

infos conditionally on events that happened before x (and that possibly reference such events)?

Like, say, "Night 1 Informed (If X is still alive, 'X is a VT'. Otherwise, 'Y is a VT')"

[RH9]

But, leaning into that, can one have a day/night x Informed that receives one of several

preprepared

infos conditionally on events that happened before x (and that possibly reference such events)?

Like, say, "Night 1 Informed (If X is still alive, 'X is a VT'. Otherwise, 'Y is a VT')"

I'm guessing that this would lean into it having an additional

Conditional

modifier (which isn't Normal).

[RH9]

Though, I feel like a good rule of thumb for Informed is it will be true, regardless of what happens after the design stage.
At least, if you want to be certain it's Normal and not leaning towards the border like with conditional messages.

[Ausuka]

Please see this thread for further discussion on changes to normal games.