Elemental Mafia- Game Over!

[Korlash]

Vote: dahil1

For trying to shut the mods up

Awkward... <.< >.>

[Korlash]

Unote:

Vote: No Lunch

I had a big breakfast....

[Korlash]

Wow this game goes fast.

<.< >.>

vote: macavenger

Oh noes, I have put him at L-7! *gasp*

Although I admit I have had the same thought Mizzy did. I mean as town we really need to do the speed lynches, but we have to try to... you know... not kill off town!

With this many people we can have a couple high bandwagons at once. That increases our chance of hitting scum with the lynch. What it means though is we need to lose the random votes and start pulling together. Vote couts should have no more then 3-4 names on it, each with a good 5+ votes. As we start narrowing down we can move to 2 with 10, and finally a lynch. I'm sure it wont work out quite that way of course its just how I see it in my head.

[Korlash]

Unvote:

Vote: TSPN

FoS: Lord_hur

You say it's important not to go to night yet your not voting someone likely to be lynched. It's easy to say "Lets keep it day people!" but words without action are pretty useless.

And... well I'm mostly voting because of the self vote thing. I think doing that is stupid in any game. Probably why i do it alot XD

[Korlash]

I mean, I think they would be more likely to try to have someone at their side who is known to be a good player (at least first day, when the chances that 2 CR double-recruit is very low).

1. This is not about lynching good players, it is about lynching famous players, and anyway this a bad argument, because good players are as dangerous as scum as they are good to have as town. I'm actually much comfortable playing with bad players/newbies as town, because they are much more likely to make mistakes at one point or another.

... i don't know this rubbed me the wrong way. First you say we need to lynch anyone famous for being a good player! Then you change it to simply anyone famous simply because you were called on it.

Theres just way too many things wrong with that. The fact you want us to purposely look for reqruited and not recruiters. Lynching people based on how good they are in past games. oh heres my favorite, who gets to choose just who is famous enough to be lynched? I mean I never even heard of armlx before. Doesn't that mean he isn't all that famous? Or simply that one or two people don't know him? Or or, what if a new player is onlyknow by like 2 people yet both say that guy is good. Does that make him cult recrutable material? Should we lynch him too?

Vote: Lord Hur

[Korlash]

How much? >.> anything over 50$ and im out...

I'm with ooba. A read up will do wonders. I am hoping to have a day off in the immediately near future so I will have some one on one time with MS! I look forward to it.

until then... Let's just blindly follow DGB! <.<

[Korlash]

Ahh so many people ont he DoS wagon I want to vote...

First off:

Some people have lives and can't post 20 times a day.

;_; I need you in some of my other games...

@ pooky: I find that L-3 in this game is not so much extra pressure, but more like... high probability of his lynch.

@ Mneme: No scum hunting? I can probably list a handful of people who you could argue that one on.

Also kinda feeling like that bit about normal scumtells could be an effort to encourage feelings of cold feet in anyone who's getting them over all the dead townies so far.

I'm kinda on both sides here. On one side I totally like the idea Mac just said here. But on the other I think that the town as a whole is trying to find easy, quick lynches so we can pack as many as possible in today, so to just jump on anything will boil the game down to luck.

I'm interested in other's thoguhts on this.

Agree with armlx. There is only one lynch in a regular game, and we rely on scumtells for most of those. Why not here?

Because in this game town is looking for as many lynches as possible. Jumping on what you call "scum tells" means that people will jump on anyone for anything they see. they will turn something that would normaly jsut be one point, into a main case. On the other hand, if we waste time looking for a strong tell, we will only have time for a minimul number of lynches. This, and I am fianlly able to use it, looks to be a catch 22 in my book.

Question is, would you rather have 5 not so strong, cross your fingers lynches, or 2 well thougth out, good cases lynches?

Alright...

New ideas:

first off, it is in towns best interest to lynch many, quickly. it is in cults interest to not lynch. The more we lynch, the less likely they will be able to build up. In reality, cult has no reason to want to see 10 town dead, they want to see other cults dead yes, but not so much town. If your wanting scum tells try and find people who are acting like they want as many lynches, but doing things that slow them down. Also late bandwagoning, and a small bit of poor reasoning for votes are also good tells. (keeps up apperances but little to no effort has been made)

A game at this speed is about three steps from chaos. lurkers will be here. Many, some worse then others. This means if yoru town and fully believe in the lynch as many as possible you need to step up and either join a bandwagon you at least agree with and are willing to press, or find someone you think is scum quick fast and in a hurry. personally i do not think there should ever be anyone not voting simply because of the huge number of votes it takes to lynch someone. (exception is after a lynch occurs)

i do have a limited amount of time and I have been trying to put effort into a few of my games I have been neglecting so I'll end with a

vote: armlx

"Very incorrect. 1) Most games have limited lynches and you trust these tells and 2) scum tells are part of scum hunting which is part of town winning.

Most games have one lynch, drastically less confusion and chaos as this one does, and a better amount of time to put into that lynch. Deadlines for a normal 12 person mafia may be the same as this one right? So we have what, 3 weeks per lynch on that one. 12 players so each person can better follow whats happening. and a hell of a lot less activity so players can anylize things better and more efficiently. This game has a -ASAP- per lynch policy, means players are trying to pack as many lynches as they can, they canonly do that by lynching fast. They can't lynch fast if they can only vote on solid scumtells. So they run with what they have.

1) You cannot link what happens in a normal game to what happens in this one.

2) DoS said he is weary of "obvious scumtells" You seem to be implying (as well as a few others) that he has said ignore ALL scum tells.

Alright thats enough from me... sorry for that but I gotta pack my content into one post unlike you active people who can do it in 20.. ><

[Korlash]

... well i wasnt on the vote count so i guess I have to re

Vote: armix

I still like that vote... <.< Thats if I still have a vote... Mr. Mod sir!

[Korlash]

Hey that must be me then!!!!

>.> I'm not armix...

[Korlash]

second tier? Who gets to decide who's what tier?

[Korlash]

So those of us who did give our reasons get screwed over... gee thanks...

*mumblejerkmumble*

[Korlash]

/hearty welcome

[Korlash]

Yup

[Korlash]

Wow... Well I'll give you creadit. At least no one is stupid enough to vote me. But alright, I'll bite. meta me of this game shows low activity through out the entire game. The last two weeks however my time on this game had to be put in another where I was taking heat for lurking. Levels of importance puts that game ahead of this one. So if you want to say I'm anythign for lurking I assure you I'm doign it in most of my games.

Secondly, If I had intentionally lurked for that long, why the hell would I just randomly post this close to deadline? I could have easily let the deadline pass.

Anyways I'll be back in a couple hours and I'm planning on putting some time into this game.

Oh and before i forget:

[quote=Muerrto"]
Not liking Korlash either. Missing for 2 weeks, pops in w/1 liner then responds again w/one. Definitely watching the thread, why no comments? Why is your vote still on Armlx? All you're doing is hurting our ability to lynch before deadline which is NOT pro-town.[/quote]

lets see, Watching the thread off and on, no time to keep up with the other people and comment anything major. Armix is scum, or at least was back when I put my vote on him. For all I know he could have claimed cop by now. And with 18 players in this game I'm not hurting anything! Especailly if I'm trying to reenter this game before the deadline is up. kthxbi!

[Korlash]

Ok! Spent the last bit looking back at things...

I spent a long time thinking about what scum would most likely do. As a recruiter would you be more likely to be active(Hunting for who is the other cult, finding out unrecrutable roles, and most importantly finding out who is still recruitable) or inactive (Stay off wagons, keep out of disscussion, keep a low profile so as to not be lynched)

Personally I would be active. Downsides include possible cop investigations increase, plus you could be lynched. However the upside of being "in the disscussion" seems a better outcome for recruiters.

based on this I looked at every votecount when a player has died. I calculated the current votecounts of both Lur Hur's self destruction and Taff's suicide because as town, I have to assume they at least had mild suspicion on them by the time they died.


Overall, One person was on all 5 deaths, PLUS the current lynch candidate.
Two players were on 4 deaths, the current candidate, and one "no vote."
And three players have been on 4 player's deaths plus the current candidate.

So based on my beliefs, the best candidates for recruiters are:
kabenon007, Armlx, and Muerrto.

Second guesses would include: Elvis knits, Xtoxm, and Macavenger.

Taking playstyles, inactivity, and claims into account might reduce this list.

Looking at Ooba... He has been on Mcavenger almost all game, minus an early Elvis vote.

I would be willing to hammer Ooba if a couple of people agree that kabenon, armlx, or Muerrto should be lynched asap after it. seeing as how we have what... a day... i find it unlikely.

I will take a look at it from the other side as well. See which players did their best to remain off the wagons. But that may take me a bit of time.

[Korlash]

The thing is, While i agree in the player's best interest all cult members should stay below the radar. No cult can win unless the other cults are lynched. I mean unless there is some cult killer that gains a NK if recruited, or a recruitable town vig, no cult can NK. So no cult that wants to win can allow another cult to take over the lynch process, and thus in order to win every cultist must be as active as possible. And as it is day one, a possible 8 cult members exist, so the recruiters must take over the lynches themselves. If you get what I am saying.

[Korlash]

EBWOP:

First sentence should read:

"While I agree it is in the individual player's best interest as cult to stay below the radar"

I think I tried to do 4 different sentences at once there...

Secondly:

The exception comes when the person starts just wagonning and not finding things to contribute to the wagons or new ones, or trying to start new ones off invalid reasoning.

Not at all. First off half of the lynches if not all of them have been started off some type of crappy reasoning. And over half of the people that have been in multiple wagons have used the excuse "Oh this is a good wagon, Vote: X" in some way shape or fashion. When we started to just lynch as quick as possible, we allowed many people to just slip into the wagons.

and please explain to me how "wanting the most lynches possible per day" is not also pro-cult at this point and time. Just because it seems pro-town doesn't mean cult wont want it too.

[Korlash]

Oh snap that is tech... it still only changes things slightly. Recruiting is still the critical point early on so the likelyness of a cult performing a kill tonight or even tomorrow night is low. unless they are sure they can hit another recruiter... that might influence something... I wouldn't be at all surprised if oen or two people were killed tonight then...

Still, lynching is by far the quickest and most efficient use of a cults time. My theory still holds weight, mainly comes down to if you thinkt he same way I do, and if the recruiters would think the same way. The high number of power roles would influence keeping your head low, but earlier on we didn't know how many power roles there were. So one way to look at it is some recruiters may have been very active, then fell off the radar. That would be the people in the middle of my list, which sadly includes myself. I'll have to look into this as well.

And even if there is a mix and some ecruiters are active while other's aren't, I still think one of the 6 players I listed is scum. So I'll have to continue that as well.

Most lynches per day = most chance of CL being lynched in D1 randomness = gimped cult.

Korlash: Most post accounts for those people who are "just wagonning". As you can see, I called out kabenon on it.

Exactly! More chance of a CL being lynched, more chance for the other cults to win! /bangheaddesk

That is a primary goal of the cults, to eliminate the other recruters! It's quite possible a few if not all of the recruiters went along with this plan for just that reason.

Thus our big "pro-town" plan may have been ganked by the cults who are now running the show. And the mere fact these lynches take so long and are drawn out so much (Take Ooba's hammer for instance) is because the people running the show are the 4 cults who are all at odds with each other. Unlike one big cult which would work together, each individual cult is working seperately, and they are only cooperating as they all have the same goal at the time. It makes sense to me for some reason. Things almost never do... >.>

And also, Your example of Kabennon is funny as he is the one most outed by my theory. Unless I am missinterperating what you mean, you just acknowledged the person i think is msot likely scum, as someone who is likely scum to you. And this proves my theory is flawed....?

[Korlash]

Well thats two. We would need a lot more active and willing to do it though.

[Korlash]

We can get two lynches in. But one of them has to be you. Even town shouldn't pass up someone at L-1... Question is, do we have enough active people willing to lynch you now and keb the second after.

Also, if we were to lynch ooba now. Could we Auto-revote so we dont have to wait for the mod? I mean this close to deadline, every vote and second counts.

[Korlash]

Unvote, Vote: kabenon007

Yeah no Recruiter can afford to calim recrutable. Two reasons being anyone who claims that is an obvious lynch the next day, plus any recruter that tries to recruit him and fails is left thinking he is in another cult and/or a power role. So in other words, claiming recrutable town is a sure fire way to get everyone after you later. But I suppose saving yourself now to hang later isn't all that bad.

[Korlash]

[quote="Arlmx"Korlash, you also forget the idea that they can assume 2 cults simul recruited and cancelled.[/quote]

Thats true, but if that is the case then each recruiter wants the player dead because another cult is after him/her too.

Again, same outcome.

^^

[Korlash]

Wow I fail at quotes... bad Korlash... bad...

[Korlash]

I do that often. Doesn't make me wrong though. ;P

[Korlash]

... i'm thinking the outthinking of thinking of think...ingness...

I'll tell you what I do think. I think if the cults are smart we will have two deaths tonight. I think the recruiters will have now have at least a small fear of quick joining wagons in the future. I think my theory has the same chance of hitting cult as the "Vote: person who got peviously random voted to form a wagon" plan.

Oh right, and I think you, Elvis, and Muerrto all need to be lynched tomorrow. But We'll see how that goes.

And BTW, to the recruiters that decide to kill... try this list... It will save us all time tomorrow. just throwig that out there...

[Korlash]

There you go again... simplicity my friend. Your talking to a complete idiot here...

The setup says two cults will kill tongiht and two will recruit. Whether the recruiter's see this or not is their problem. The night actions at this point do not depend on what the other's are or are not doing.

secondly, a successful recruit may be the most damning thing to a cult at this point. While a kill may be the most helpful. added to the fact, killing another recruiter is far more rewarding as the game progresses then builing your cult early, theoretically I wouldn't be surprised if all 4 cults tried to kill tonight.

My theory expanded into night actions a while ago, but that is very unhelpful to me unless i try and use the cult's actions to our advantage. The only way I see that is if we kill off our best lynch candidates tongiht to save time tomorrow.

Still, I shouldnt go too far into it. I mean if a recruiter is too stupid to see what his/her obvious move is tonight, why the hell should I tell them. The only reason I bring it up is so our power roles can have a stating point for what to expect. Hell, all four cults may choose to recruit tonight. Kudos for us I say. Odds will favor at least one culist being lynched tomorrow!

[Korlash]

Help each other out? What? When did I say that?

[Korlash]

First point, Armlx. The cults aren't working together by two killing, and two recruiting. So the comment you made about that still seems unfounded to me. And I'm not saying any two cults should kill, I'm letting you know that two specific cults will kill if they understand how this game is set up, while the other two specific cults will recruit if they understand the setup as well. Now like you said, i can't speak for what other player's think/will do so none of this is set in stone. however, if a player had to choose between a gold coin and an apple, instead of thinking 50% chance, you have think abotu what the player chooseing most needs. A hungry man will take the apple, while a well fed man will pick the coin. (And don't give me any lip about being able to buy an apple with the coin, this is a hypothertical example =/) Using this principal, I conclude it is in two cults best interests to kill, so they will. And so our powerroles should excpect this and think abotu it tonight when concidering their actions.

What's hilarious about the number of town lynched is THERE ISN'T EVEN A SCUM FACTION directing lynches.

Wrong. There are 4. A simple outline will explain it I think. But I don't have the time. Just understand that it is very likely all 5 factions (If you cont town as a faction itself) are all after the same thing(possibly) and so all 5 factions will unintentionally work together to acomplish their common goal. each player can have his/her own views on this situation I suppose. That is simply how I see it. No lynch thus far could have happened without some help from one of the cults.

Law of probability + human nature = at least one cult on every wagon (minimum)

That is a fundamental reason why I am suspicious of the people on multiple wagons.

[Korlash]

Ah but here is where self preservation comes in. The two cults who msut kill, must kill to save themselves, while the two with nothing to worry abotu are able to recruit and, well... not worry about it. Their predicament comes down to, do I recruit or try to kill another recruter? So in theory theymay kill to, but as you say recruiting is better for endgame, so it is more likely they will do that.

I have no idea what you mean by Xtoxm. Perhaps it's somthing I missed...

[Korlash]

And that is why so many town are dead... =/

[Korlash]

Am I missing something? If there isn't any compelling reason not to, I think we have to lynch Korlash -- discussing scum strategy in public in this kind of game favors scum -far- more than it favors town.

Then you missed the point entirely.

I agree, all I saw that boil down to was wasting time.

right... so the outcome of that "wasting time" is being able to squeeze this lynch in too... cool... I'll remember that tomorrow...

[Korlash]

Woulda been faster if mneme had voted...

Anyways, I'll woot too! First insight into what my theory nets! ^^

until tomorrow then, *goes to sleep*

[Korlash]

Actually, this is making a lot more sense now. DGB and Korlash teaming up on the crusade vs. me, I can see one recruiting the other easily. Its just an issue of who is the puppet and who is the master.

>.>

Me and DGB have done stuff like that before. but I mean seriously, jsut because two people have voted you makes them "teaming up"?!?! WTF is that...

And as far as my lynch goes, I'm assuming its because of all my theory yesterday yes?

Well people, did last night have the wcs? NO! Swish!

You can say al my talk was soooo anti town, or scummy, or whatever the hell you want but you have to admit not having two deaths is an automatic town plus. Two cults wasted their opprotunity cost of gaining an emeny death last night, now be it that they decided to recruit, or that a power role stopped them we'll never know. It cold very well be that everything I said changed nothing and all recruiters would have reruited anyways.

As it goes I'm happy with the results, and as it stands tonight will be the same way, two deaths two recruits. (Not counting what happens today of course) And if the cults want to keep wasting time not killing kudos to us!

I'll

Vote: Lowell

I'm not interested in saving my own ass, in fact one of the only ways to remain town is to die... But I'd like to know what I can get out of this theory of mine. He falls in the "middle bracket" so his alignment would be nice to know. I would actually be surprised if he is a vig.

[Korlash]

Oh you think? Should I break it down... I wouldn't want to "help the cults" out again...

[Korlash]

well at least I'm easy to reread...

[Korlash]

Defult lynching...

Theres a defult button on this vote thingy? Cool can I change my interface, I want my votes to appear pink and wavy...

seriously, whats defult lynching?

[Korlash]

Sort of like the whole policy lynching thing.

[Korlash]

Easy there Mr. "everyone voting me is an idiot!" that wifom applies to me as well. Why would I, "as a cult member", talk about how cult should play the night?!?!? I wouldn't want to help the other cults out. Yet still I'm up for a lynch today anyways. So don't think you'll talk people out of lynching you based on reason, as you can see logic and reason really doesn't play in half of this game's deaths.

as it stands, you might as well claim.

[Korlash]

Because at the moment, the town is a bigger threat to the cults than they are to one another. Based on my math of yesterday, I'd guess there were 6 cultists going into Day 1. Yesterday killed a lot of innocent townies, but also revealed some recruitables, so let's say two more cultists going into today -- 8 cultists total, given the plethora of things that can block a recruit. So the town is probably 50% town, 50% scum -- which means that by far, the largest voting block is the town block -- and we have more "kills" than the scum does; 6 per day, as opposed to four kill^recruits at night.

Your dense man. One of the reasons I tried to explain it is because us town are better off knowing this type of thinking is crap. The town is not the biggest threat to the cults. And the way we have been playing, we probably never will be. You can make up imaginary math all you want, point is simple, 2 town are a huge threat, 3 other cultists are a huge threat, 3 > 2. So even math fails you.

Look a cultists can both kill or RB a recruiting. So all 4 cult recruiters are at odds with each other because there is a better chance that the other recruiter will interupt them. Add on to that, that there is another chance that recruiter will do something of their own sucessfully, means that to any one recruiter, the other three recruiters are their worst enemy.

Yesterday, things were different. Like I said, all the cults had different needs going into night. There is a town presence ont he game. But no cult will want to work with another cult EVER, nor will a cult ever say killing a town to be better then killing another of the recruters.

The scum's biggest weakness is that they cannot coordinate -- the individual cults can, but do not want to reveal themselves to one another (of course), and even if they did, their only means of coordination is through public play. The town -can- coordinate, but we don't know who's town and who is scum (naturally).

Like I said, Cults won't work together willingly. They help each other on the lynches during the day unknowingly yes, and together the cults can run the wagons. But as soon as they start working together, one cult will backstab the other asap. So I don't know what your talking about scum can't coordinate, the correct wording is scum WONT coordinate.

The end result, in my mind, is to treat any attempt to direct the scum with -extreme- suspicion. It's not in their interests to listen to you, and if it is, I don't want you telling it to them. And either way, there's a good chance anyone trying to direct the scum is, in fact, scum.

Obviously they didn't listen to me because no one killed sucessfully. if they were smart they should have known who to kill and why, yet they didnt! So all we as town got was powerroles, who whether they listened to me or not had to be thinking of a NK attempt, on the lookout, we had each vult going into night full of WIFOM-should I kill or not?!?!?- and i was able to direct Kebanon's lynch myself so I could see the outcome of a town started wagon, not to mention we got to sqeeze that one in, woot!

All in all my, directing, as you call it, turned out pretty good.

And FYI, Anyone trying to direct scum is obviously not scum. 1) I assume the cults can talk to each other at night? So if I needed to tell all that to my partners I would jsut do it at night and say if we need to kill or not, I couldn't inform the other cults it was safe to recruit or it was better for them to kill. I get the thinking of "dirceting night actions is scummy!" and even the "Talking abotu what is best for scum is scummy" line of thinking, but if your seriously saying the cults are working together your going to lose your side the game. And that applys whether your town or cult btw.

mneme: I see what you're getting at, but experience leads me to think that Korlash just likes to speculate. If anything, I'd expect him to do this as cult in order to stick to his meta.

i do like my theories! ^^

[Korlash]

That was a joke btw. XD I think Cavebear explained it better then I did. "Everyone is after recruiters" is pretty much the basis of my theory.

[Korlash]

I agree wih Armlx here, Claiming Bodyguard is simple enough for any town. There was no point to go into as much as he did and get that confusing.

[Korlash]

I feel sorry for you pooky... I really do...

Anyways like i said I'm not interested in defending my ass. Lynch away! But continue to ignore people like Muerrto and Armlx and your handing the gam to the scum. They should be next. Mneme wouldnt be bad. And don't miss Erg0 either. Or Xtoxm... hes been bugging me too...

My claim is simply an unrecrutable town. i don't feel like going into anymore.

To be fair, delaying the lynch would probably suck 1 lynch out of today. Don't think you are scum though, you actually did stuff yesterday. Korlash probably is though, and the above reason only adds to the other ones.

*sigh*... Until you idiots realise scum wouldn't be lurking you'll never hit one... Unless you count wayne... we got lucky with that one...

GL town we need at least one of you to survive...

[Korlash]

Um... I've been calling you and armlx scum for a while now... durrrr....

The lynch me thing is cause I'm tired of putting energy into this game when no one listens to reason... All they do is folllow two people on a random killing spree then wonder why no cult has been killed... i'm hoping with my death people will at least understand I'm partially right and might not be so quick to be swayed by the cults.

[Korlash]

... Right... well your pushing of the case is pretty scummy. if you are town I pity you... I came back strong from that lurking and informed town of their wcs. Hell if I wanted too I could backstab you all and give scum the rest of my info. But hell if i'll do that. Those losers deserve to... um... lose... <.<

Point is you want to lynch me fine, but don't say "Korlash lurked and is thus scum" yadda yadda yadda cause it just ignores all the effort i put in lately. Which I believe is a sort of strawman.. only opposite... where you... hmmm... There should be a term for that...

"Selective scumminess"... I like it...

[Korlash]

Funny...

breaking it down if I were scum I shouldn't claim, and if I were town but not a power role I shouldn't claim. If I claim recrutable vanilla you lynch me to prevent me form being recruted and/or because you don't believe me. If I calim power role I either get NKed (Which I wouldn't so I don't knwo why I'm worried abotu that) or you lynch me for not believeing me. Then theres the fact I cant be both vanilla and a power role so one of the two is lying and thus I could risk outing another role or I could get lynched for lying. When I thought about it, not claiming is bar far safer for me whichever allignment I am. Won't help me not to get lynched though...I've been mulling that one over for a while. Still I don't think I won't be lynched so why bother claiming? i mean look what it did to Lowell. The question is would you even believe me if I claimed anything, or would you automatically tun it into a reason to lynch me.

As far as callign them out I did it for a reason. i think town's best plan now is a sort of order for lynches. It follows my previous theory but instead of hitting only high active people it jumps around. A slightlyactive, then a high, then a lurker, then so on and so forth. My plan right now would list me first (Mid) then Let's say Muerrto(High) then Erg0 (low) then maybe armlx (high) then Xtoxm(mid) and it woudl go into tomorrow and we would start it up where it left off maybe hitting Farside eventually, Macavenger, mneme, Pooky and so on.

Risks are pretty obvious though... The people we last last would have to be town in order for us to win. But on the plus side we gain two very cool traits. 1) Night actions are simpler. Cult can't pick people next up to lynch, because they would just be killed the next day, so protection roles have fewer people to choose from to protect, while RBers and preventers can stick to people on the chopping block. 2) At any point the town can stop the list or reverse it or what not, this would throw the recruiters who had been planning and recruiting the other direction into chaos! beutiful chaos! muahahaha... <.<...

But unfortunitly that plan is just another failure. But I still think the next couple of lynches could be governed by it. Probably wouldnt survive the day.

Shrug I can't speak for Armlx or Ergo but calling out both as well in that same post makes it look like you're simply trying to call out the most vocal ones. Kind of last minute for that.

and just to bang you over the head... for how long have I been saying active = scum? hmmm... HMMM!?!?!? gaw...

[Korlash]

I like that... stubborn... that would make a great entry into my fakecalim sections...

But seriously, as a power role the only reason to claim is that people will believe me and not lynch me. but I highly doubt either of you two would believe me. in fact i think both of you would use it to further my lynch through some unknown twisting of stuff or what not. Not only that but I have reason to believe I'm not the only one with said power and if not careful i could out that person. so if I get lynched I hopefully saved that person plus I get to prove a point. but if I claim I may survive and then what. You just start my lynch up again whenever you feel like it using the same excuse "Oh he lurked day one and claimed something I don't believe!"

I think I'll stick with stubborn... yeh... I'm Stubbron, once per day you can tell people where to stick it and storm out! You then go to a bar and drink for an hour... Eventually though you come back but don't appologize, you just let things simmer for a while until your GF makes you dinner and then you watch tv... Yeah...

[Korlash]

Uh huh... See that one is a strawman... Interesting what lengths you are going here... is it beause I know too much... huh.. admit it... korlash is smarter then the cults... so he must die... or is it you tried to recruit me and failed? I bet thats it... Another plot foiled by Stubborn! my job is done... time for a beer...

And if thats the case replace him with mneme or something...

[Korlash]

Korlash's claim seems slightly off (is that unrecruitable town or townie?), but other than that, I don't see where the wagon is coming from. Oh, and now he just posted saying he pretty much gives up. Not sure what to think of that. Part of me wants to lynch just to see what he is, but I don't think that would be a very good plan, objectively.

Ok to clear stuff up, I didn't claim unrecrutable vanilla town, I claimed unrecrutable town, implying i have an ability but I don't feel like revealing it. If the only reason you or someone else votes me is to "Find out what it is" I pity you and your spawn who will eventually grow up into carneys... which isn't all that bad.. You could have them grow up into muerrto... *shudders* i would advise you to kill them on sight if that happened...

[Korlash]

My bad on this tri-postal-post...

What the hell is up with lynching people who "might get recruited later" anyway? The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. That HAS to be most of the town. Or at least must have been from the start. What's better; lynching someone who "might get recruited later" or someone's who's ALREADY a cultist? How about lynching the recruiters instead, so there's nobody to do the recruiting? Can't believe it took me this long to grasp this. Big FoS:es all around on people using that argument.

Finallly a voice of reason... Can I bow at your feet? please... just a slight kneel then... a curtsey? How about a hand shake... heres my wallet! Enjoy...

[Korlash]

Soo...how exactly is your method better if you're just picking names randomly since you picked a cop and replaced him with someone else?

And if you're paying attention, how'd you pick a cop?

i'm going off my list of my previous theory. Xtoxm and Mneme fall pretty close to each other if I remember correctly. I woudl have to look at my notes again. All things said and done I would rather lych Mneme then almsot anyone else. But to prevent him or anyone else calling out some omgus thing I replaced his name with Xtoxm's. as for his claim I seem to remmeber something like that but his name didn't register with me as the one who claimed. I was thinking of relookign that up then I remembered, whats the point right.

And i think the phrase is "There should be only one!"

[Korlash]

Cavebear, I don't think we've ever lynched someone for that reason. All the lynches I've seen have had to do with wagon -> claim -> claim isn't sufficient.

Korlash: Now isn't the time to mess around. Full claim or die please.

We've had numerous people claim recrutable and I seem to remember at some point something along these lines being brought up abotubeing recruited. I believe the correct way to say it would be we were going to let them live then lych them anyways because they may have been recruited that night. Which theoretically is the same thing.

Now isn't the time to pretend to be town either Armlx... Or should I say... Fire recruiter!!!! .... Wind? Your Earth right...

[Korlash]

Or perhaps all my talk about your so called plan being BS and finally having a chance to do something about it is proof enough. I've said it before we have put the game in your and meurrto's hands. I'm fed up with it. I blam over half the deaths on you and him so far. You want t kill me too then let someone else have their go. You want to know why I waited so lon yesterday? it's because I wanted kabennon's lynch. That one was mine. To me the first town suggested lynch yet. And now your asking me to claim. No...

Erg0, you ask me to claim. Cavebear how about you. Hell Xtoxm, go ahead and ask me. Anyone but these two. Will somebody please take the game out of their hands. Hell even if they are town they haven't been right yet. Let them stop picking us off one by one. People on Pooky's wagon, why him over me? Seriously? Don't vote and let it slide. You have to voice yoru opinions and reasons constantly.

THIS IS WHY SCUM ARE ACTIVE. The game moves so damn fast when a handful of people are active, the other player's fall behind. hell if you log on to see someone at L-1 and a full 5 pages to read you would probably hammer just to give you time to catch up. This is how cult has been directing the game. This is why the active people hurt town so much. I mean look at me, in the last 2 hours how many times have I posted? A lot. i mean the last page or so almost is in the hands of like three people. That means 3 people know what is going on and the rest are a page behind. This is a hard thing to fight though. People have lives, and can't post all that much. While others seem to be able to post every 5 min. In theory this is good, more activity = more pro town. But not in such a huge fast paced game like this. This is a big part of my theory yesterday and a big part of why i wont claim. We as a town need to be more together, more vocal, more... whats a good word... agreeishy...

>.>

we need more support for things... Like I said hard to fight... mainly cause its hard to put into words.

Examples, Don't lynch when you have 3 people who havent posted yet. Why do that?!?!? Time limit? jeeze... People, cult are not at war with the town yet, they have to pick off each other... Think about it, the less we lynch the more power roles we have. The miore defined the lynchbecomes and it has a better chance of hitting scum. Sure cult has a wider range to choose from, but they will have to start NKing eventually. And when they do they will aim for the other cults, not for town. We've been playing this game all wrong and are now in a bad situation because of it.

i've never been good at getting my point across... I wonder why i still try... my point right now is I shouldn't claim unless a good number of people agree i should. Two people saying it isnt enough.. I shouldnt be lynched unless everyone has commented on it at some point.

*sigh*

I am a little opprotunistic though... there is bound to be one town people have and will overlook. And im hoping when the cults go after each other they miss that guy... and we win cause of it... man... what a great victory...

I'll calim if two more people ask me too. if I get lynched befor that then too bad. You only prove my point. I'm going to try and let the thread simmer down so people caan catch up now...


EBP:

see two people posted while I was writing this... people cant even post because the thread changes that fast...

Also how am I stalling the lynch? Only like one person has posted since i refused to claim. Thats still not enough to lynch me even if he had voted. Seriously... Can no one else see the BS these two are spitting out?!!?

[Korlash]

Not confrimable, no information either. i'm a protection role so only Cults can confirm... Don't see that one happening ><

Korlash, you don't get it. 6 people have asked you to claim with their vote.

Your logic also fails. Not lynching != more power roles. We try not to lynch power roles that are pretty confirmable. Say, xtoxm. But every power role claimed so far has accelerated their death pre-claim or claimed in a really scummy way on an unconfirmable role.

No... simply voting is nothing... Askign me to claim at L-5 is nothing either. I need people to ask me now, while im in the hot seat. So far I've had two people say "Korlash claim" And i doubt either of you said please... >.> seriously some manners would be appreciated...

And excuse me.. hwo many powerroles have we lost?

Not coutning surviver, jester, or SK... we lost:

Vig,Cop, Inventer, and bodyguard... One pro town killing, one protection, one information, and one who knows what! thats a lot in my book. You said it yourself that some of them claimed "In a scummy way" so in other words... me claiming now is pointless cause lets face it, this has been a pretty scummy way to claim eh?

[Korlash]

Doesnt matter. point is most of those power roles were under pressure from a wagon. Th vig choose to kill instead of claim. If town hadn't been so happy about the new plan it had come up with perhaps we would have taken t slower and the vig would not have overreacted.

The cop is a write off. but it goes back to us pushing a town too far.

inventer choose to modkill himself over continuing to put up with the crap you guys keep shoveling. Again, if we took things slower and had more logic or reason behind it perhaps he too would not have overreacted.

Both of these two deaths help illistrate why this lynch lynch lynch asap!!!! shit we've been doing is worthless and in itself anti town.

Then the bodyguard. Sure i didn't believe him either. I was sure he was cult. Blah blah blah. the same applies to me. If your "sure" im scum, examples may include Mneme on this one... then no matter what I claim you will continue to vote me. i'm not trying to give a reason not to claim, Im giving a reason why our so called pro town plan is stupid and BS. Try to keep up...

[Korlash]

Mneme better be lynched next... honestly... it's the only way I'll have any hope for you guys...

Anyways good luck. I was simply a vanilla recrutable town. i couldn't bring myself to fully lie and risk bringing someone down with me...

Nice streak btw... keep it up and we may get a record "most town hung" in a game...

peace, I'm out!

[Korlash]

Probably... But this was more fun... Besides I feel we really bonded during all this...

[Korlash]

Serously though, after seeing Lowell lynched for, as Muerrto the self proclaimed pro town person said, because we cant let recrutable people live... do you honestly think I thought claiming recrutable an option?

[Korlash]

i didnt stall anything... i asked for more people to voice a want for me to claim, no one did. In fact I specifically said i needed two more to ask, what did they do? They hammered me instead. Well then, blame DR and Mac. Actually... Blame DR. Hes most likely cult out of those two... I still think Mac could be lying but eh... no reason to be suspicious of it yet...

[Korlash]

Oh... the one you echoed?

And for the last freaking time no they didnt... half of those 6 people jumped ona awagon simply to appear to be helping... i bet they couldnt even have come up with a decent reason to vote me...

[Korlash]

You dont have his... if your town why would it be suspicious of him saying it? Are you lying? if not why do you think he is?

[Korlash]

... i suppose so... then again i would rather have someone lurk most of the game isntead of lynching people jsut so they dont get recruted...

man i hope they never let that one go... Then maybe you'll get why I felt so bad being lynched for the mere fact I was too busy day one... man... If they had ynched me in every game I had lurked in... whew... glad they didnt...

[Korlash]

Yeah im a bit sad the scum are morons and didnt kill last night... Oh well still a plus for us but still kinda not all that good either... man... sucks...

[Korlash]

I know... but I want to get as much disscussion as I can in before I am off'd... *glare at you* yeah... *sniff*...

[Korlash]

A bit... Still upset kabennon wasnt scum myself... Still i'll bank on Mneme... and if Im wrong about him Ill follow up with my one of you two... but i wont push those... ha ha ha ha... ahhh... funny...

[Korlash]

I would hope all of our lynches were pretty scumy...

[Korlash]

well my theory wasn a complete bust. Seems I was just using the wrong results... My bad ><