In post 2810, CheekyTeeky wrote:Because Ceph would have worked out why he was at lylo, is harder to sway, and he looked like the towniest player in the game to you two because you're both scum parading too well as town that it looks super bad that neither of you are dead yet the sarcastic non-contributor who you both townread is dead.
I'm not answering another question about why wouldn't you do xyz as scum because this is beyond pointless. Tell me why gobbles is -still- scum.
It's pretty objectively clear you'd be harder to "sway". Ceph
literally
said Dann can win if he's scum. Meanwhile, you were
constantly
voicing an {Auro+Dann} paranoia.
In post 2811, CheekyTeeky wrote:Your tunnel is unnatural. You have not hesitated on gobbles since day 2. You must have a scumclaim if some kind to ignore all information since.
Okay, let's do your exercise. I was pushing {Molla+Gobbles} since D2. What new information have we gotten since then?
D2 Lynch, Espeonage Town
: Who I townread then anyway, and didn't have much legitimate input himself.
N2 Kill, Dunnstral Town
: Who I was townreading, with a little bit of paranoia; whose reads weren't inconsistent with my push.
D3 Lynch, Hopkirk Town
: Who I townread and tried to fight a lynch off of.
N3 Kill, Cephrir Town
: Who I townread, and who had Dong, FF, and Gobbles at the bottom of his reads list. (2431)
I have not been Night Killed
: Which seems like a perfectly valid strategy for scum!Gobbles to follow.
Now,
which
piece of information must be enough basis for re-evaluation?
CheekyTeeky wrote:Oh and Ceph was never getting lynched while you're attempting to lead the town. Whereas theres a fantastic case for cheeky/FF or cheeky/gobbles you can both push now.
And we care why? With only two slots from {FF, Gobbles, Dong, Molla} to lynch from to win the game, the attainability of a lynch outside that pool is far less important than the chances of pocketing them.
@Cheeky, seeking answers to the re-evaluation bit.
I don't understand why you're reacting this way to suspicion on you. You guys have been making some pretty bad pushes on me (from my perspective anyway) and I haven't resorted to AtE self-votes, right?
In post 2979, Auro wrote:Cheeky, I'm heavily interested in your teammates' individual reads.
Additionally, please paraphrase your team PT discussions as detailed as possible.
Kiss my ass.
Na.
I see little reason for you to refuse this. If town, bad.
In post 3007, Formerfish wrote:This is slimy as shit too. You are acting like you've played a superior game and have been bleeding town this whole time when you are pplaying just as bad as we are.
I am indeed playing a superior game. I'm not the one positing horrible paranoia pushes based on wild NK theories and dumb premises such as "scum want to be controlling so active players are scum".
You were close to lynch D1 and I townread you then; my interactions with you helped at least to some degree to shift the wagon off. I said NSG lynch was better at that point. She flipped scum.
I townread KittyMo, and she flipped town.
I said Esp was towny late D2. I was correct about that.
I was somewhat paranoid about Dunn, but not even close to want to lynch him; he flipped town.
I defended Hopkirk throughout D3 and strongly so. He flipped town.
I called Cephrir obvtown. He flipped town.
All my reads about the flips so far have been correct.
In post 3022, Formerfish wrote:What are you talking about? Cheeky made it very clear she was coming for my head today after what happened yesterday. Why wouldnt i have taken out at least 1 person calling for my head on a pike?
Cool. So if Cheeky died at night, that would make it easy to call you scum and go for your lynch, yeah? So if I was scum, I could kill Cheeky, and then claim that you're scum who killed someone calling for your head on a pike, and this would be a legitimate push, yeah?
>Scum!AuroDann kills Cheeky and pushes FF lynch
That's the only assertion I made in the post.
That doesn't mean I *am* going for your head. It's a hypothetical about where I'm scum.
In post 3022, Formerfish wrote:What are you talking about? Cheeky made it very clear she was coming for my head today after what happened yesterday. Why wouldnt i have taken out at least 1 person calling for my head on a pike?
Cool. So if Cheeky died at night, that would make it easy to call you scum and go for your lynch, yeah? So if I was scum, I could kill Cheeky, and then claim that you're scum who killed someone calling for your head on a pike, and this would be a legitimate push, yeah?
>Scum!AuroDann kills Cheeky and pushes FF lynch
That's the only assertion I made in the post.
That doesn't mean I *am* going for your head. It's a hypothetical about where I'm scum.
I think I'll spell this out in easier words. My implied argument was:
1. Consider scum are Auro+Dann.
2. Consider the hypothetical where Auro+Dann NK Cheeky.
3. Auro+Dann would be pushing FF after NK'ing Cheeky.
4. (3) is an easy win path.
5. Cephrir locktowned Dann and townread Auro.
6. NK'ing Cephrir and hoping to wifom is a poor strategy.
7. Given the dominant strat in (3), this is good evidence in favor of ruling out Auro+Dann.
I don't care if you disagree with the argument. No part of the argument implies that I wanted your lynch today. This is because I'm firstly not scum, and Cheeky wasn't the NK.
"In a hypothetical world X where I am scum, doing Y makes it easy to simply go for an FF lynch"
This is not the same as "I want to simply lynch FF now".
In post 3034, Formerfish wrote:So its ok for you as scum to set me up by killing someone scum reading me, but me saying that the people who died were tring me and could defend me if alive still is baseless wifom?
It's not "ok", it's a valid strategy for me to have pursued, by your own admission (that a cheeky NK paints a target on your back).
Saying that people who died TR'd you is firstly incorrect, and the argument loses strength when the reasons they died are pretty obvious: that they were obvious town, not for reads. Dunn was going for Esp+Hop and both were town.
Also, this is a false equivalence. You were saying I'm scum for wanting your lynch today and all game. I've disproved the former; and you lack evidence for the latter.
You're resorting to whataboutery when I present evidence against your arguments. Treat them separately; agree that your case on me was incorrect, and we can then look into my pushes on your posts.
In post 3036, Formerfish wrote:Thats assuming that my team is invested as yours apparently is in this game. I guess I dont need as much of a crutch
Don't need Reundo to be invested. Just show him your recent posts/case, and ask him to evaluate it on its own merit. Surely he can have some judgment about how strong the case is without having to have read the entire game.
In post 3037, Formerfish wrote:Because when you dont get an answer you like in here you make us appeal to our teammates. Its like when you get a no from mom and you go to dad knowing he is going to say yes.
We are the ones playing this game. We are the ones who have read every post and know all the nuances of the slots relationships.
You're asking us to reach out to a disinterested to semi-interested partner who hasnt read everything and is going to have a lower starting base of knowledge in hopes that they tr you and can call us off you.
No, I don't care about their reads on me. I'm asking so *I* can have a more confident read on you.
Teammates can still have opinions without being terribly invested in the game.
And those opinions are readable, since they share your alignment.
In post 3040, Formerfish wrote:Except im not going to ask him because weve done this dance once already and I dont wanna waste a song on my dance card with someone who stepped on my toes before.
This makes zero sense; he's literally your teammate, and the ask is very simple and very little time consuming.
Or, mom could be irrational as both scum and town, whereas I know dad's only going to be irrational as scum; so instead of trying to read mom and dad on mom's words, I'll read them by dad's words.
In post 3047, Formerfish wrote:I go to my team pt and ask the question and come back and tell you that Reundo thinks that im a moron and my reasoning is shit, but its my game so do me.
Yes, then I do not conclude you're scum straight away. You now have a trustworthy town voice (partner) telling you your reasoning is shit. I'd then see whether you reevaluate based on this information, and how you will.
Formerfish wrote:Aww... are you calling me irrational?
Your pushes were irrational, and I don't know if you're irrational as a person. (Mom *could* be irrational as scum/town). When I say "bad/shitty/horrible" reasoning, I mean irrational reasoning.
In post 3031, Auro wrote:I have quoted Cephrir's latest post where you were mentioned. Hopkirk flipped town, which means you were the second scummiest candidate after Gob.
I have offered proof that Ceph scumread you.
Either agree with this, or prove otherwise.
FF, you're pretty silent about this. So is that agreement that Ceph didn't townread you?
In post 528, Formerfish wrote:I took Gobs 344 way differently than you did. I'll wait for Gob to chime in before I give my 2 cents though.
Is now a good time for this? In his current absence I'm pondering that the early rudeness with you two may have been theater. :b
Still pending.
I've just gone through a full multi-iso of you/Cheeky/wgeurts. This entire post is going to about you and I am going to do my best to make it not a nightmare to read.
Auro/Dann/Dunn/Dong/Hop all go after you a bit for your early posts, which I don't think was especially deserved except I guess by PoE, what you were doing was fine for page 2.
Looking at the big catch-up: far from IIOA, content is there. There's good things, some less good things. Hopkirk townread has the least established progression in your posts.
In post 346, Dunnstral wrote:Gobble is the scummiest player at this point in the game.
In post 346, Dunnstral wrote:If you have meta info on scum NSG you should share it, I don't know what you are talking about.
VOTE: Formerfish
Gob is the scummiest player to Dunn. Gob claims to have info on NSG that makes her scum. Dunn votes me while asking his biggest scum read what makes NSG scum. That totally makes sense.
At this point Brad stood up from his computer and went into the kitchen. In the back of the cabinet there was a bottle that had grown a bit dusty over time. Some ol' kentucky rye whiskey sloshed in the bottle as it was removed from its forgotten home. See the only time that Brad ever drinks from this bottle is when he has read something that makes his head literally hurt. Brad used to go the hospital in the past when things like this happened. He would explain how he felt and the doctors and nurses would listen and they would run some tests. All of those actions were in vain as what Brad was suffering from was not something that could be deduced by any tests known to man. Brad was suffering from an allergy to other people and the things that they say that make no sense at all. Brad has been doing good, staying on the right path, avoiding politics and any discussions of religion. Playing Mafia was playing with fire though, and deep down Brad always knew that this would be the ending given enough time. Well what the hell, I know the medication says not to drink with it, but thats just a suggestion right?
This is by far your weirdest take. You have totally lost the nuance here that Gobble was gone for fucking ages, and that Dunn in the same catch-up style you are literally doing yourself, comments on the re-entrance and then ends up flipping his vote to you. This looks like a clapback for moving onto you. Because if what you quoted is the entire progression, that's probably worth digging into more than it seems like you ever do. But somehow you've gone to the effort of cutting up the quote to narrate it like this without analysing the situation fully. If this is your honest reaction to the post than frankly I don't get why you don't suspect Dunn more from it.
And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.
This kind of makes me feel worse about your manner of posting today (as in when I'm writing this post). Because I feel like there was a lot of thread activity to dig into and I don't feel the energy of you suddenly having more of a real-time opportunity than you usually have in the game.
In post 610, Hopkirk wrote:oh i see what you mean, you made those shorter posts while that one was in draft. That makes sense
Hop 'Hopenhop' Hop
Aaaaaayyy, he got there.
And I'll answer CT here as well. Your slot dropped off because when I read the thread in one go i liked that slot, then i realized how dormant it went after bitching at someone for saying they might not give 100% attention to this game.
CT, did you iso me, because if you did you would have seen the post i made about why my read changed on geurts and why he went from a townleanish to a scumlean.
Thats why i said you had a whole to climb out of as soon as you came into the thread.
I feel like both arguments Hoppy and CT are using against me are bad premises because they either missed info crucial to their basis or they ignored something i totally said.
They're bad premises, but are they scummy ones? I feel like addressing it as a pattern that is happening against you is the more defensive and less productive angle to take. Rather than looking at the motivation behind them individually. And while the full explanation of his wgeurts slot read is prompted by Cheeky, it doesn't sit that well with me. Acknowledging that Hopkirk misunderstood you and now says you "make sense" but still writing him out as arguing against you with a "bad premise" is sorta odd shade toward an apparent townread while Cheeky was scummier for you. Overall, just a tonally weird post.
Spoiler: NSG stuff
In post 820, Formerfish wrote:I was going to wall again, but Im high and feel a little wordy and like things might not flow if i bunched everything together. Enjoy this next few hours postings.
In post 759, Dannflor wrote:despite what I've said I don't actually want to lynch nsg day 1, I was just hoping wagoning her would be effective in getting her to play and ehhhhhh
I've been thinking about this a little bit. If NSGs team is pulling her to other games where they need help do you think that they would do that with her as scum or as town? If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.
This is all kinda working under the idea that we are incapable of finding scum on our own and that we need her to come save us.
I think that we have a good deal of info going into this first lynch and that we will have a better understanding of the game state when we see a few flips.
In post 820, Formerfish wrote:If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.
I've addressed this.
If she's scum she'd be held accountable for her pushes, she'd take heat for driving a mislynch.
If she's town she's a prime target for a N1 kill, meaning she'd want to have some impact on the game - making her refusal to play D1 strange.
I dunno, I think there is a good chance that if she really thinks shes going to die tonight that maybe her not doing anything d1 is a decent strategy.
Think about it. If she try-hards today and comes up with a bunch of solid reads, it almost certainly seals her fate tonight. And then we move on and who really listens to dead people when they die?
If she lays low and lets us progress the game scum is going to be forced to make a choice between taking out a vocal town leader from today, or NSG who could potentially be a leader in the future. This gives her the best chance to get to d2 as town imo.
I complained about this in my team discord back when it happened, which launched into a bit of a convo about what that meant in terms of TvS/SvS etc., from that noticed you'd made a point of saying you didn't know NSG well multiple times earlier. I'm not entirely sure this is a logical following from your earlier expressed thoughts on her including that.
That aside, you've 'been thinking' about it and have these long paragraphs that reflect... the level 1 base interpretation of accepting NSG's premises... My personal viewpoint is that this is a WIFOM argument that is being presented as though the rest of us somehow didn't consider it. I definitely didn't like this, how much of that is differences in perspective is something I'm unsure of.
Spoiler: Problematic progression?
In post 976, CheekyTeeky wrote:FF has been tiptoeing around what could be deemed the strong town players Dunn, Dann, Kitty and town reading the not so towny people. When he decided to attack Dann he was constantly throwing shade and acting like he was reassessing but he wasn't, he left dann in his scum reads after saying he felt better. His jump on the Auro wagon was opportunistic, ceasing on the game trajectory that was running in his favour. These are the main points I'll be elaborating on.
FF is interacting with Dunn in a way that feels like he's trying to stay under the radar. It's what and who he's picking and choosing to respond to. You're not giving his town game enough credit if you think this is it.
In post 1027, Formerfish wrote:Cheeky I don't know if you're looking for a formal invite for us to interact, cause I'm not sure why you are unable to ask me whatever you wanna talk about.
Like I said go read my iso and to come back with questions about my reads or anything you wanted to talk about, did I miss a response to that or are you still just trying to compare my play here to how I play as an SE in newbie games?
This is a very different game for many reasons. First of all I have 3 other players looking at the game and giving their takes and opinions on people so I dont have to do all my hunting here since I have some good fucking partners helping me there. Second, the last time i did a TM i played horribly and Im trying to not repeat that performance. Third, sue me If I wanna take this game a little more serious since im having some issues with inadequacy on site and maybe if I actually play well here and show people im not some chuckle fuck that ill feel better.
I can go back to shotgunning anything that moves if you really want me to, but I think that time is gone in this game and you missed it. We are here now and you wanna talk but whenever you talk to me it doesnt seem like you are talking about what you want to talk about.
In post 1042, Formerfish wrote:I will hang Dann or Auro right now, CT maybe her arguments against me feel very contrived, but she claims a case is coming, so...
I dunno if you missed this specific post, but given she did make the beginnings of a case there, the meta bit is not the important thing to be focusing on. Not that I don't agree that you playing differently in Team Mafia than a newbie game doesn't make sense, it's just also pretty NAI.
In post 850, Auro wrote:Quote the multiple people explaining why it's anti-town.
People don't need to explain things to your liking for it to be true, your role pm dictated that long before you opened your mouth and let us all see which color you got as clearly as you did when you opened the pm.
I have two shoulder angels in this game, and the one that doesn't like you was put off by you in real-time this 1v1 argument. From a theory standpoint I side with you, and yet what made me facepalm was not that I felt Auro was being disingenuous, it was him being seemingly so genuinely obstinate for the umpteenth time despite me not agreeing. But the bigger issue is that I don't know if I see this as you genuinely becoming more convinced he's scum, or that that tracks onto how you came back to the thread afterward. Like, you've clarified you prefer Auro/Dann/Dong lynches. But your re-entrance is very...calm toward those people, main reaction to goings-on is that Dunn is the "sane one."
Anyway: These are my concerns about you, feel free to clear any of them up.
Hell, here's KittyMo's latest post relating to her read on you. A giant wall of concerns.
Feel free to quote a more recent post of hers where she townread you. Maybe I missed it.
In post 528, Formerfish wrote:I took Gobs 344 way differently than you did. I'll wait for Gob to chime in before I give my 2 cents though.
Is now a good time for this? In his current absence I'm pondering that the early rudeness with you two may have been theater. :b
Still pending.
I've just gone through a full multi-iso of you/Cheeky/wgeurts. This entire post is going to about you and I am going to do my best to make it not a nightmare to read.
Auro/Dann/Dunn/Dong/Hop all go after you a bit for your early posts, which I don't think was especially deserved except I guess by PoE, what you were doing was fine for page 2.
Looking at the big catch-up: far from IIOA, content is there. There's good things, some less good things. Hopkirk townread has the least established progression in your posts.
In post 346, Dunnstral wrote:Gobble is the scummiest player at this point in the game.
In post 346, Dunnstral wrote:If you have meta info on scum NSG you should share it, I don't know what you are talking about.
VOTE: Formerfish
Gob is the scummiest player to Dunn. Gob claims to have info on NSG that makes her scum. Dunn votes me while asking his biggest scum read what makes NSG scum. That totally makes sense.
At this point Brad stood up from his computer and went into the kitchen. In the back of the cabinet there was a bottle that had grown a bit dusty over time. Some ol' kentucky rye whiskey sloshed in the bottle as it was removed from its forgotten home. See the only time that Brad ever drinks from this bottle is when he has read something that makes his head literally hurt. Brad used to go the hospital in the past when things like this happened. He would explain how he felt and the doctors and nurses would listen and they would run some tests. All of those actions were in vain as what Brad was suffering from was not something that could be deduced by any tests known to man. Brad was suffering from an allergy to other people and the things that they say that make no sense at all. Brad has been doing good, staying on the right path, avoiding politics and any discussions of religion. Playing Mafia was playing with fire though, and deep down Brad always knew that this would be the ending given enough time. Well what the hell, I know the medication says not to drink with it, but thats just a suggestion right?
This is by far your weirdest take. You have totally lost the nuance here that Gobble was gone for fucking ages, and that Dunn in the same catch-up style you are literally doing yourself, comments on the re-entrance and then ends up flipping his vote to you. This looks like a clapback for moving onto you. Because if what you quoted is the entire progression, that's probably worth digging into more than it seems like you ever do. But somehow you've gone to the effort of cutting up the quote to narrate it like this without analysing the situation fully. If this is your honest reaction to the post than frankly I don't get why you don't suspect Dunn more from it.
And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.
This kind of makes me feel worse about your manner of posting today (as in when I'm writing this post). Because I feel like there was a lot of thread activity to dig into and I don't feel the energy of you suddenly having more of a real-time opportunity than you usually have in the game.
In post 610, Hopkirk wrote:oh i see what you mean, you made those shorter posts while that one was in draft. That makes sense
Hop 'Hopenhop' Hop
Aaaaaayyy, he got there.
And I'll answer CT here as well. Your slot dropped off because when I read the thread in one go i liked that slot, then i realized how dormant it went after bitching at someone for saying they might not give 100% attention to this game.
CT, did you iso me, because if you did you would have seen the post i made about why my read changed on geurts and why he went from a townleanish to a scumlean.
Thats why i said you had a whole to climb out of as soon as you came into the thread.
I feel like both arguments Hoppy and CT are using against me are bad premises because they either missed info crucial to their basis or they ignored something i totally said.
They're bad premises, but are they scummy ones? I feel like addressing it as a pattern that is happening against you is the more defensive and less productive angle to take. Rather than looking at the motivation behind them individually. And while the full explanation of his wgeurts slot read is prompted by Cheeky, it doesn't sit that well with me. Acknowledging that Hopkirk misunderstood you and now says you "make sense" but still writing him out as arguing against you with a "bad premise" is sorta odd shade toward an apparent townread while Cheeky was scummier for you. Overall, just a tonally weird post.
In post 820, Formerfish wrote:I was going to wall again, but Im high and feel a little wordy and like things might not flow if i bunched everything together. Enjoy this next few hours postings.
In post 759, Dannflor wrote:despite what I've said I don't actually want to lynch nsg day 1, I was just hoping wagoning her would be effective in getting her to play and ehhhhhh
I've been thinking about this a little bit. If NSGs team is pulling her to other games where they need help do you think that they would do that with her as scum or as town? If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.
This is all kinda working under the idea that we are incapable of finding scum on our own and that we need her to come save us.
I think that we have a good deal of info going into this first lynch and that we will have a better understanding of the game state when we see a few flips.
In post 820, Formerfish wrote:If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.
I've addressed this.
If she's scum she'd be held accountable for her pushes, she'd take heat for driving a mislynch.
If she's town she's a prime target for a N1 kill, meaning she'd want to have some impact on the game - making her refusal to play D1 strange.
I dunno, I think there is a good chance that if she really thinks shes going to die tonight that maybe her not doing anything d1 is a decent strategy.
Think about it. If she try-hards today and comes up with a bunch of solid reads, it almost certainly seals her fate tonight. And then we move on and who really listens to dead people when they die?
If she lays low and lets us progress the game scum is going to be forced to make a choice between taking out a vocal town leader from today, or NSG who could potentially be a leader in the future. This gives her the best chance to get to d2 as town imo.
I complained about this in my team discord back when it happened, which launched into a bit of a convo about what that meant in terms of TvS/SvS etc., from that noticed you'd made a point of saying you didn't know NSG well multiple times earlier. I'm not entirely sure this is a logical following from your earlier expressed thoughts on her including that.
That aside, you've 'been thinking' about it and have these long paragraphs that reflect... the level 1 base interpretation of accepting NSG's premises... My personal viewpoint is that this is a WIFOM argument that is being presented as though the rest of us somehow didn't consider it. I definitely didn't like this, how much of that is differences in perspective is something I'm unsure of.
In post 976, CheekyTeeky wrote:FF has been tiptoeing around what could be deemed the strong town players Dunn, Dann, Kitty and town reading the not so towny people. When he decided to attack Dann he was constantly throwing shade and acting like he was reassessing but he wasn't, he left dann in his scum reads after saying he felt better. His jump on the Auro wagon was opportunistic, ceasing on the game trajectory that was running in his favour. These are the main points I'll be elaborating on.
FF is interacting with Dunn in a way that feels like he's trying to stay under the radar. It's what and who he's picking and choosing to respond to. You're not giving his town game enough credit if you think this is it.
In post 1027, Formerfish wrote:Cheeky I don't know if you're looking for a formal invite for us to interact, cause I'm not sure why you are unable to ask me whatever you wanna talk about.
Like I said go read my iso and to come back with questions about my reads or anything you wanted to talk about, did I miss a response to that or are you still just trying to compare my play here to how I play as an SE in newbie games?
This is a very different game for many reasons. First of all I have 3 other players looking at the game and giving their takes and opinions on people so I dont have to do all my hunting here since I have some good fucking partners helping me there. Second, the last time i did a TM i played horribly and Im trying to not repeat that performance. Third, sue me If I wanna take this game a little more serious since im having some issues with inadequacy on site and maybe if I actually play well here and show people im not some chuckle fuck that ill feel better.
I can go back to shotgunning anything that moves if you really want me to, but I think that time is gone in this game and you missed it. We are here now and you wanna talk but whenever you talk to me it doesnt seem like you are talking about what you want to talk about.
In post 1042, Formerfish wrote:I will hang Dann or Auro right now, CT maybe her arguments against me feel very contrived, but she claims a case is coming, so...
I dunno if you missed this specific post, but given she did make the beginnings of a case there, the meta bit is not the important thing to be focusing on. Not that I don't agree that you playing differently in Team Mafia than a newbie game doesn't make sense, it's just also pretty NAI.
In post 850, Auro wrote:Quote the multiple people explaining why it's anti-town.
People don't need to explain things to your liking for it to be true, your role pm dictated that long before you opened your mouth and let us all see which color you got as clearly as you did when you opened the pm.
I have two shoulder angels in this game, and the one that doesn't like you was put off by you in real-time this 1v1 argument. From a theory standpoint I side with you, and yet what made me facepalm was not that I felt Auro was being disingenuous, it was him being seemingly so genuinely obstinate for the umpteenth time despite me not agreeing. But the bigger issue is that I don't know if I see this as you genuinely becoming more convinced he's scum, or that that tracks onto how you came back to the thread afterward. Like, you've clarified you prefer Auro/Dann/Dong lynches. But your re-entrance is very...calm toward those people, main reaction to goings-on is that Dunn is the "sane one."
Anyway: These are my concerns about you, feel free to clear any of them up.
Let's go through FF's assertions/cases/reasoning from today, along with why they're bad.
. Because the NK'd slots didn't townread him. Even the lynched slots didn't - look at 2748, 2763 for example.
"Auro wants to hear my teammate's opinions as a desperate out" (3023)
:
Incorrect
. It's so that I can read FF better. I've detailed how it would in 3051. Asking for a teammate's opinion on something is not a legitimate basis for scumreading someone.
It's not "outlogicking". FF's being stubborn about a wrong read based on verifiably wrong premises.
If he continues to be wrong, and he's town, that's a noisy distraction and bad for town.
If he's town, I need him to discard this terrible push and actually focus on gamesolving; so I can townread him easier.
I simply don't see Dannscum when I read his posts. I feel the opposite - lots of town equity in lots of his posts. I think you'll understand when I say "dann probs scum" isn't enough for me to sheep you. Can you give me more specifics on why he is?
In post 2545, Dannflor wrote:Currently, something that worries me is if I lead a mislynch today, Cephrir gets NKed (seems to fit the pattern of calm collected townies getting killed, see KittyMo and Dunnstral), and then you lead a mislynch on me. But obviously talking about this in advance probably isn't going to be productive. And it's possible I'm worrying for nothing.
You've talked about how Dann is scum from the night kills, which I disagree with; and how Auro+Dann is the solve which I know to be false. Since your teammates have been reacting with scumreads to his individual posts, I think that's far more useful to me.
Yes, and Dann knows that where we're at doesn't bode well for him; so wouldn't he take another path if scum?
Why would you be the obvious LyLo lynch? If you were NK'd, and we lynched Gob, this means [FF, Dong] are still in LyLo. Ceph had both of them as scumreads.
I don't see why killing you, and then lynching two out of [FF/Dong/Gob] is not a plausible approach for scum!Dann.
Was he triggered by your pushing him or by your self-vote/AtE? Given your own teammates got triggered (shouting wtf at you and what not), this doesn't seem scummy to me.
