Micro 1020: To Tell the Truth [Game over]

[Infinity 324]

It's pretty clear clidd didn't want to play, I don't see how the replace out was a dick move?

As far as the setup goes it feels like scum should not be able to list players more than twice or so because it kind of ruined the mechanic this way, in return there should be fewer townies or more scum or something

[Umlaut]

I think that without a nightkill this setup will in practice be "3:6 Nightless with two Innocent Children"

If I try to run something like this again I'll need to have both a factional kill and some motive for scum to actually change up their investigation targets, otherwise it's not all that interesting.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe the factional kill is enough of an incentive idk

[Datisi]

not wanting to play is one thing but i'm generally of the thought thatbif you signed up for a mafia game you need to finish it because replacements ruin game integrity

and i think it's pretty blatant how the replacement influenced the game here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's pretty clear clidd didn't want to play, I don't see how the replace out was a dick move?

As far as the setup goes it feels like scum should not be able to list players more than twice or so because it kind of ruined the mechanic this way, in return there should be fewer townies or more scum or something

I don't think you understand how much effort it took on my end to manipulate his thinking and perception esp in a very townsided setup where I couldn't kill any of the quasi-masons.

I was relying on a level of paranoia that I knew he would have and his position in the game.

Literally everything we did up to that point was to do this.

I don't really care about winning/losing per se. It's more about having respect for your opponents.

[Infinity 324]

I understand why it's frustrating for you, but no one is obligated to play a game they're not enjoying and I'm giving clidd the benefit of the doubt that that's why he replaced out.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry pooky <3

gotta say i feel like scum was robbed here. they enter 5p lylo with two practically confirmed townies, one townie thinks it's datisi/pooky, the other thinks it's datisi/pav... and then one of them replaces out lol ecks dee

it's cool buddy I had a lot of fun <3

almost got there on the hail mary haha

[Datisi]

what pooky said

manipulating specific people in specifics ways is like, a scum skill, and not an easy one, and they basically had all that effort wasted because clidd didn't want to finish this game

idk, if you don't wanna play the game tough shut sucks to be you, but if there's no irl emergency or the game isn't actively harming your mental state i feel like you have an obligation to both your fellow players and the moderator

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I understand why it's frustrating for you, but no one is obligated to play a game they're not enjoying and I'm giving clidd the benefit of the doubt that that's why he replaced out.

if someone doesn't enjoy playing scum would it be ok for them to replace out everytime they get a red pm?

like at some point it's just kind of silly.

[Infinity 324]

No then you don't join mafia games lol

Strongly disagree with datisi here but ok

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like I'm not even fustrated that we "lost", I was just really really curious to see if that line of play would've won and I feel so unsatisfied not knowing the answer :<

[Datisi]

i think this could be an interesting MD topic

i really think what clidd did here was unsportsmanlike *at best*

[Infinity 324]

Continuing to play in a game you're not enjoying makes the game worse for everyone else

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like what are scum supposed to do make the town super happy that they're elimming scum on elim after elim and its just cruising to a win in a nightless setup with quasi-masons?

lol how is that even enjoyable for anyone?

[Datisi]

and this doesn't?

obviously nobody is stopping people from repping out, or can stop that, but i feel like it would be important to have a more "you need to finish what you started" atmosphere

like replacing out should be the last resort imo

[Datisi]

@umlaut, no dead thread?

[Datisi]

site should punish replaceouts in some capacity imho

saying both as a player and a frequent game moderator

[Infinity 324]

Replacing out does make the game worse for others too, yeah

I'd be interested to see what clidd has to say. To me, clidd had lost interest in the game to the point that if scum won it wouldn't have been a deserved win because he had essentially stopped playing.

I think this was a last-resort type situation.

[Datisi]

To me, clidd had lost interest in the game to the point that if scum won it wouldn't have been a deserved win because he had essentially stopped playing.

/shrug, i agree that situation is not ideal either

arguably speaking, if clidd had stayed in the game (and this is just an example, not implying clidd would do this) and said "i don't want to play i'll vote whatever", there could be an argument made that that is playing against wincon

i think the best solution would be to promote the importance of ~properly finishing a game you signed up for if possible~, but i'll be the first to admit i have no clue how to do that in practice

[Infinity 324]

I'm gonna make an MD thread.

To me it's just as much of a problem that players keep playing when they shouldn't than players replacing out when they shouldn't, if not more.

[Datisi]

To me it's just as much of a problem that players keep playing when they shouldn't than players replacing out when they shouldn't, if not more.

i feel like i've seen the unnecessary repouts more than unnecessary stayings, but that might be because i feel like "game stamina" (or how long a player can keep their head in a given game) is itself a feature of a player in the game of mafia

though take it with a grain of salt, maybe you've seen much worse things than i have

[T3]

*sad violin music*

[Infinity 324]

I could be misremembering how often each thing happens too. Pooky also mentioned alignment which is a difficult problem, for a lot of people they're more likely to stop enjoying a game if they're scum. I feel like this question probably doesn't have many good answers unfortunately.

[Umlaut]

@umlaut, no dead thread?

I forgot to make one on Night 1 and then again on Night 2, and by the time I did think of it I figured the game would be over soon anyway at the rate it was going.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

um at F6 the town had a 83% chance of winning on just random elims.

if we win because we manipulate clidd to a point where he makes a mistake it will have been a deserved win.

again it's not about winning or losing, it's about playing the game.

there is no way as mafia to plan for replace outs. We can only manipulate and plan around the people in the game in the moment. It's utterly meaningless to put effort into a game where you manipulate someone into making a mistake if you know they will just rep out if you get them to that point. Like where's the incentive for scumside to even try if townside can just push an ejector button?