biancospino's Mini Normal Review, March 2023 (Released)

[Datisi]

it's... probably fine?

i think my biggest concern is the BP-finder. a townie is informed that there is a traitor (bulletproof traitor is a semi-common role) which makes them likely to think there is one. and if the disloyal strongman flips, that all but confirms there traitor is BP, because why else would the strongman be disloyal.

my first thought is to remove the multitasking from that role, and make both of its abilities 1-shot instead of 2-shot. but ofc, up to you and mastina.

[Datisi]

i guess my other concern is what happens when scum starts dying. i said i'm fine with the town PR getting conftowned upon scum death (due to setup spec), but that's not the only thing that happens here. the finders *also* become stronger upon a scum flip, if town is good at figuring out the setup. which is why i kinda wanna nerf them a lil bit.

[biancospino]

Mhm, I may see the problem. What if instead I make the BP-Finder significantly less useful by making it a Tracker-Finder instead?

WOLVES

1 Werewolf Jailkeeper-Enabler disloyal Unstoppable
1 Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja
1 TA-Enabler Bulletproof Tracker lazy Traitor

VILLAGE

1 Jailkeeper
1 Watcher
1 Informed TA

• There is a Traitor.
  
• There is a player with the lazy modifier.

1 multitasking 2-shots Tracker-Finder 2-shots Finder-Finder
1 even-nights Enabler-Finder odd-nights Informed-Finder
5 VTs

[biancospino]

Bumping this.

Mhm, I may see the problem. What if instead I make the BP-Finder significantly less useful by making it a Tracker-Finder instead?

WOLVES

1 Werewolf Jailkeeper-Enabler disloyal Unstoppable
1 Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja
1 TA-Enabler Bulletproof Tracker lazy Traitor

VILLAGE

1 Jailkeeper
1 Watcher
1 Informed TA

• There is a Traitor.
  
• There is a player with the lazy modifier.

1 multitasking 2-shots Tracker-Finder 2-shots Finder-Finder
1 even-nights Enabler-Finder odd-nights Informed-Finder
5 VTs

After some thoughts, I do actually like this version (Tracker-Finder instead of BP-Finder) slightly more, though I'm still entirely fine with the BP version if this happens to be an overcorrection.

And as we're here, I also have role PMs ready

Spoiler: Role PMs

Spoiler: Villager

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Villager

.

You have no passive abilities.

You have no active abilities.

You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.
[/area]

Spoiler: even-nights Enabler-Finder odd-nights Informed-Finder

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Village even-nights Enabler-Finder odd-nights Informed-Finder

.

You have no passive abilities.

You have the following active abilities:

• even-nights Enabler-Finder
  — each even-numbered Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is an Enabler. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.
  
• odd-nights Informed-Finder
  — each odd-numbered Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is an Informed. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: multitasking 2-shots TK-Finder 2-shots Finder-Finder

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Village multitasking 2-shots Tracker-Finder 2-shots Finder-Finder

.

You have the following passive abilities:

• multitasking
  — you may perform any number of actions each phase.

You have the following active abilities:

• 2-shots Tracker-Finder
  — each Night, but only twice during the game, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is a Tracker. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.
  
• 2-shots Finder-Finder
  — each Night, but only twice during the game, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is a Finder. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: Jailkeeper

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Village Jailkeeper

.

You have no passive abilities.

You have the following active abilities:

• Jailkeeper
  — each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from kills that night, but all their actions will be blocked that night.

You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: Watcher

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Village Watcher

.

You have no passive abilities.

You have the following active abilities:

• Watcher
  — each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn which other players targeted that player that Night. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: Informed TrafficAnalyst

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Village Informed TrafficAnalyst

.

You have the following passive abilities:

• Informed
  — you know the following sentences to be true about the setup:
  • There is a player with the role of Traitor.
    
  • There is a player with the lazy modifier.

You have the following active abilities:

• TrafficAnalyst
  — each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is able to privately communicate with another living player. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: Jailkeeper-Enabler disloyal Unstoppable

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Werewolf Jailkeeper-Enabler disloyal Unstoppable

.

You know that the Wolves' faction is composed of you, XXX and a Traitor. You do not know who the Traitor is.

You have the following factional abilities:

• Wolf chat
  — you can talk with the other members of the Wolves' faction at any time [here]
  
• Wolf kill
  — each night, if no other member of the Wolves' faction use this ability, you may target a living player. Assuming no interference with your action, your target will die.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• Jailkeeper-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "Jailkeeper" will cease to function for all players.
  
• disloyal Unstoppable
  — killing actions performed by you that target a player who does not belong to your faction cannot be blocked in any way (they may still be caused to fail by effects that prevent targeting entirely, like Commuter).

You have no nonfactional active abilities.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role, or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT.

Spoiler: Watcher-Enabler Ninja

Welcome to Game!

You are a

Werewolf Watcher-Enabler Ninja

.

You know that the Wolves' faction is composed of you, XXX and a Traitor. You do not know who the Traitor is.

You have the following factional abilities:

• Wolf chat
  — you can talk with the other members of the Wolves' faction at any time [here]
  
• Wolf kill
  — each night, if no other member of the Wolves' faction use this ability, you may target a living player. Assuming no interference with your action, your target will die.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• Watcher-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "Watcher" will cease to function for all players.
  
• Ninja
  — actions performed by you are not visible to action-investigative roles.

You have no nonfactional active abilities.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role, or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT.

Spoiler: TrafficAnalyst-Enabler Bulletproof Tracker lazy Traitor

Welcome to Game!

You are a

TrafficAnalyst-Enabler Bulletproof Tracker lazy Traitor

.

You know that the Wolves' faction is composed of you, XXX and YYY, but they don't know your identity.

You no factional abilities.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• TrafficAnalyst-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "TrafficAnalyst" will cease to function for all players.
  
• Bulletproof
  — you are protected from killing actions that target you.
  
• lazy Traitor
  — when no non-Traitor member of your faction is alive, you gain access to the Wolves' factional PT and to the Wolves' factional nightkill.

You have the following nonfactional active abilities:

• Tracker
  — each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who that player targeted that night. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role, or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT.

Spoiler: Result PMs

Watcher

You discover that XXX was targeted by A, B and C.

You discover that XXX wasn't targeted by anyone other than you.

Your Watcher action failed and you get no result.

TrafficAnalyst

You discover that XXX is able to communicate privately.

You discover that XXX is not able to communicate privately.

Your TrafficAnalyst action failed and you get no result.

X-Finder

You discover that XXX is an X.

You discover that XXX is not an X.

Your X-Finder action failed and you get no result.

Tracker

You discover that XXX targeted YYY.

You discover that XXX didn't target anyone.

Your Tracker action failed and you get no result.

lazy Traitor becoming full Wolf

You are the last Werewolf alive.

You gain the following factional abilities:

• Wolf chat
  — you can talk with the other members of the Wolves' faction at any time [here]
  
• Wolf kill
  — each night, if no other member of the Wolves' faction use this ability, you may target a living player. Assuming no interference with your action, your target will die.

I do have a question on the lazy Traitor wording. I have worded it as

when no non-Traitor member of your faction is alive you gain access to the Wolves' factional PT and to the Wolves' factional nightkill.

However I do worry that this wording would pretty much confirm to the Traitor that there are no lazy-Enablers (nor any third party or more than one Traitor, but that would follow for the guidelines anyway so that's less of a concern). To solve this, I've come up with a more verbose wording, but then I worry this may be confusing:

when no non-Traitor member of your faction is alive, you are endgamed; however, since you're lazy, if there are less than two player alive not aligned with the Village when that would happen, instead you gain access to the Wolves' factional PT and to the Wolves' factional nightkill.

[furtiveglance]

I think town will win and mafia might grumble

[Datisi]

However I do worry that this wording would pretty much confirm to the Traitor that there are no lazy-Enablers

why do i feel like a very similar discussion had occurred somewhere in an NRG review... i can't remember where.

i think? the final verdict was that the first case is fine (i.e. using the first case doesn't *actually* rule out the existence of a lazy-enabler)

as for ruling out a second traitor, you can just change it into something like "when all scum but you are dead".

[Datisi]

come to think of it, not sure if a lazy-enabler is even normal, currently.

[biancospino]

as for ruling out a second traitor, you can just change it into something like "when all scum but you are dead".

I mean, I can't really, since the lazy Traitor would be endgamed if all non-Traitors wolves are dead but there are still another Traitor alive. But in a scumteam of three there may not be two Traitors anyway, so that's (probably?) not really a problem -- btw, a Traitor should know the identities of the entire scumteam,

including potential additional Traitors

, correct?

[biancospino]

I think town will win and mafia might grumble

Is the concern here just the town

having

many PRs regardless of what they actually are, lest they may gain an advantage in massclaim?

[Datisi]

as for ruling out a second traitor, you can just change it into something like "when all scum but you are dead".

I mean, I can't really, since the lazy Traitor would be endgamed if all non-Traitors wolves are dead but there are still another Traitor alive. But in a scumteam of three there may not be two Traitors anyway, so that's (probably?) not really a problem -- btw, a Traitor should know the identities of the entire scumteam,

including potential additional Traitors

, correct?

yes, you can? the fact that they'd get endgamed at 2 traitors alive doesn't mean you can't use "if you're the last member of the mafia alive, you become a full mafia member". that sentence simply explains what happens if they are the last scum standing, but it does NOT say it's possible for that scenario to occur.

i'm pretty sure there cannot be 2 traitors in a team of 3. and no, if there's 2 traitors, they're not aware who the other traitor is. source: played a normal once where i was scum and we had two traitors, and they both thought this random townie was the other traitor. very fun.

[furtiveglance]

I think town will win and mafia might grumble

Is the concern here just the town

having

many PRs regardless of what they actually are, lest they may gain an advantage in massclaim?

Yes, I find people can overestimate the importance of nightplay trickery. With that aside, this is just 2 Mafia and 1 Traitor vs 5 PRs.

[Datisi]

please stop thinking about it as "5 PRs" without thought of what they actually are, that's not how games work.

[furtiveglance]

They will all claim their role before being eliminated.

[Datisi]

scum is capable of lying about their role, and town is capable of misyeeting TPRs.

[furtiveglance]

I know that, but players usually respect PR claims in Mini Normals.

[biancospino]

as for ruling out a second traitor, you can just change it into something like "when all scum but you are dead".

I mean, I can't really, since the lazy Traitor would be endgamed if all non-Traitors wolves are dead but there are still another Traitor alive. But in a scumteam of three there may not be two Traitors anyway, so that's (probably?) not really a problem -- btw, a Traitor should know the identities of the entire scumteam,

including potential additional Traitors

, correct?

yes, you can? the fact that they'd get endgamed at 2 traitors alive doesn't mean you can't use "if you're the last member of the mafia alive, you become a full mafia member". that sentence simply explains what happens if they are the last scum standing, but it does NOT say it's possible for that scenario to occur.

i'm pretty sure there cannot be 2 traitors in a team of 3. and no, if there's 2 traitors, they're not aware who the other traitor is. source: played a normal once where i was scum and we had two traitors, and they both thought this random townie was the other traitor. very fun.

Ah, if they are not informed of who the other Traitor is then I would have to state both conditions (if there are no non-Traitors, you are endgamed; unless you are the last wolf, in which case you become a full wolf yada yada). And I should also reword the information they get about alignments.

Welcome to Game!

You are a

TrafficAnalyst-Enabler Bulletproof Tracker lazy Traitor

.

You know that main Wolves' faction is composed of XXX and YYY.

You no factional abilities.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• TrafficAnalyst-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "TrafficAnalyst" will cease to function for all players.
  
• Bulletproof
  — you are protected from killing actions that target you.
  
• lazy Traitor
  — when you are the only living player not aligned with the Village, you gain access to the Wolves' factional PT and to the Wolves' factional nightkill. When there are no living members of the Wolves' faction with access to the Wolves' factional nightkill, you are endgamed.

You have the following nonfactional active abilities:

• Tracker
  — each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who that player targeted that night. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role, or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT.

[biancospino]

i'm pretty sure there cannot be 2 traitors in a team of 3. and no, if there's 2 traitors, they're not aware who the other traitor is. source: played a normal once where i was scum and we had two traitors, and they both thought this random townie was the other traitor.

Wait, does a Traitor know

if

there exists another Traitor?
If the answer is yes then the point is moot and I may cut the verbiage

[biancospino]

(Oh, and also the phrase "or by posting the same in the Wolves' PT should of course be removed from the Traitor PM's /confirm line)

Spoiler:

Welcome to Game!

You are a

TrafficAnalyst-Enabler Bulletproof Tracker lazy Traitor

.

You know that main Wolves' faction is composed of XXX and YYY.

You no factional abilities.

You have the following nonfactional passive abilities:

• TrafficAnalyst-Enabler
  — when you die, the role "TrafficAnalyst" will cease to function for all players.
  
• Bulletproof
  — you are protected from killing actions that target you.
  
• lazy Traitor
  — when you are the only living player not aligned with the Village, you gain access to the Wolves' factional PT and to the Wolves' factional nightkill. When there are no living members of the Wolves' faction with access to the Wolves' factional nightkill, you are endgamed.

You have the following nonfactional active abilities:

• Tracker
  — each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who that player targeted that night. If this actions fails, you will get a "No result" PM.

You win when at least one member of the Wolves' faction is alive and all members of the Village's faction are dead, or when nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is located [here].
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[mastina]

Setup in 52 seems good to me, I'm having a bit of a flareup of a bad brain thing so am struggling to read details rn, but will read the roles to see anything needed shortly.

[biancospino]

So, uh, is this passed?
Anyway, here's the rulepost which I've just realized I've never remebered to post (the backup-mod color is a placeholder. @furtive, feel free to chooce whichever color you like as long as it isn't a shade of purple)

Spoiler: rules

Ruleset

(in large part

shamelessly stolen

inspired from Northsidegal)

the tl;dr

1. Abide by site rules, and be mindful of your fellow players.
   
2. Majority executions, but half of the voters are enough to end the Day with no execution.
   
3. D1 will last 240 hours, and all other Days will last 168 hours; Nights will last 48 hours.
   
4. 36 hours prods; if you are prodded, you have 24 hours to respond, and if I have to prod you three times I may replace you immediately.
   
5. This game is Werewolf/Village themed.
   
6. I have some unusual rules about multimedia content, night prods, and last words.

General

1. Adhere to all site rules.
   
2. Always play to win. This specific game, not some unspecified future one.
   
3. Claiming wolf by yourself is acceptable (if it isn't gamethrowing), claiming wolf with partners is not.
   
4. Remember that this is a game — heated discussion is allowed, but personal attacks are not.
   
5. Pretending to break the rules will be treated similarly as actually breaking the rules.
   
6. furtiveglance is my backup mod. He has full mod authority.
   
7. You may use the following colours, as long as you don't do so to attempt to impersonate a moderator:
   #663399
   , which is my colour;
   #123456
   , which is furtiveglance's colour.
   
8. Do not quote any out of game communication regarding this game — this includes your role PM and any other PMs I may send you.
   
9. If you need to get my attention, please include "
   @mod
   " in your post or PM me.
   
10. Do not use encryption, hidden text or excessively small text (
    size 70
    is the smallest I'll allow) in your posts. Crumbing is fine.
    
11. If you wish to include large images and/or gifs, you may do so, but you must put them in a [⁣spoiler=] tag.
    
12. A player who is only able to access the thread via raw text should be able to play the game to its full extent. If you include any non-textual game-relevant multimedia, you have to provide an adequate alt-text and, where applicable, a full transcription. In any case, posting multimedia that include audio is
    strongly discouraged
    .
    
13. Do not use any form of provable randomness. This includes dice tags, screenshots of random.org, etc. Saying you flipped a coin is okay, providing some sort of proof that you did isn’t.
    
14. If you have the ability to edit your posts, do not do so.
    
15. If you accidentally post with an incorrect alt account, you have to immediately make an identical post with the correct account, so to preserve ISOs' readability.
    
16. My decisions are final. If I feel you are violating any of the rules, I will take the appropriate action.
    
17. As a general principle, whenever moderator action is required I will attempt to make the decision that has the least impact on the natural flow of gameplay. For example, force replacing instead of modkilling whenever possible.
    
18. I reserve the right, under extraordinary circumstances, to change this ruleset. If I do so, I will acknowledge having done so in-thread.
    
19. Have fun!

Deadlines and Activity

1. The first Day will have a 240 hours (10 real life days) deadline, and all subsequent Days will have a 168 hours (7 real life days) deadline. Each Night will have a 48 hours deadline.
   
2. I may grant deadline extensions in extraordinary circumstances.
   
3. If a player replaces in during the Day with less than 48 hours remaining to the deadline, I will extend it to 48 hours.
   
4. During the Night, players may ask for a quick night. If all players do (including those with no night actions) and I'm not busy, the Night ends immediately.
   
5. You are expected to confirm your role PM no longer than 72 hours after I've sent it to you. If you don't, you will be replaced.
   
6. You are expected to make at least one game-relevant post every 36 hours. Players who go 36 hours without posting will be prodded.
   
7. If you are prodded, you have 24 hours to post in-thread. If you do not respond within 24 hours, you will be replaced. Additionally, if I have to prod you 3 or more times, you will be replaced at my own discretion.
   
8. Abuse of prod dodges will result in you being replaced at my own discretion.
   
9. If your prod timer would expire during the Night, you may respond to it by PMing me. If you do so, you also have to make a game-relevant post in the first 24 hours of the next Day.
   
10. If you are going to be V/LA, please announce it in thread or PM me. If your V/LA will last 5 days or longer I may be forced to replace you.

Voting

1. All votes and unvotes must be in
   bold
   or in VOTE: vote / UNVOTE: unvote tags, with vote tags being preferable.
   
2. Votes in spoilers will not be counted.
   
3. If you wish to change your vote, unvoting first is not mandatory.
   
4. Abbreviations and nicknames are acceptable, as long as I can understand them.
   
5. Dabble in false votes shenanigans at your peril. If I think something is a vote, it is.
   
6. As soon as a majority (half of the living players plus one-half, rounded up) is voting for the same player, that player is hammered and their fate is sealed. If no majority is reached before deadline, the day will end with no execution.
   
7. You may vote for VOTE: No Execution. Voting to end the day with no execution requires only half of the living players, not a strict majority.
   
8. Once a hammer has occurred, the game is in "twilight". Discussion may continue until I lock the thread but no further votes or unvotes will be counted. As soon as I lock the thread, the hammered player will be executed and the Day will end.

Miscellanea

1. You may ask for a personal Notes PT for confessional purposes. Don't talk in-thread about you having, or not having, a Notes PT.
   
2. Once you are dead, you may no longer post in the thread or in any PT you may had access to. You will however be granted access to the Deads' PT. You may post spoilers there, but if you do put them in [⁣spoiler=] tags.
   
3. You may ask to be replaced out by PM; in any case, you may not discuss in-thread the reasons you may have for replacing out. As soon as I acknowledge your request, you may not rescind it and you are no longer a player.
   
4. If you request to be replaced out, you may PM me with a "last words" message. I will relay it to your successor.
   
5. The Wolves' faction may concede, if all of its members agree.

Endgame

1. The Village will win if all Werewolves are dead and at least one Village-aligned player is left alive.
   
2. The Wolves will win if all Town-aligned players are dead and at least one Werewolf is left alive, or if nothing can prevent the same.
   
3. If all players are dead, the game ends in a "Scorched Earth" Draw.
   
4. If there are no deaths for six consecutive phases, the game ends in a "Happily Ever After" Draw.
   
5. After the game has ended, the thread will be opened for post-game discussion, and everyone (including dead players and non-players) may post in it. All PTs will be released unredacted immediately.

Game Notes

1. This game is Normal.
   
2. Night actions this game will follow Natural Action Resolution.
   
3. If you do not send me an action for the night, I will assume that you are not taking one.
   
4. All existing PTs are open at all times, regardless of the presence of an Encryptor.
   
5. By default, players may not perform more than one action each night.
   
6. At least one player has received the following role PM:

   Welcome to Game!

   
   
   You are a

   Villager

   .
   
   You have no passive abilities.
   
   You have no active abilities.
   
   You win when at least one member of the Village's faction is alive and all members of the Wolves' faction are dead.
   
   The game thread is located [here].
   Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[Datisi]

uh, sorry, i've been sick the past few days and thinking has been hard. i'll try to take a look at this today

[biancospino]

:(

Hope you fell better. Happy scumday btw

[biancospino]

Bumping since CSF's mini is filling up

[implosion]

I'm opting to just put this into signups, since it seems quite close.

I'm not sure if the public setup info in post 1 is still accurate - if so, it seems like info that should be fine to divulge in the game thread rather than in the queue. Just make sure if it is, that it's very obvious (like in its own post rather than buried in your rules post) and that everyone sees it.

[Datisi]

i looked at role PMs, i think they're fine, but the VT one is missing an area tag

the public info should be changed i think, since we changed a lot of the setup. i'm not sure if we need it at all anymore, since the necessary players are informed individually