Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Broccoli Quest 2]

with me town and kyou likely town
scum is inenchant -broccoli-dunn
if the miller claims are both true then its enchant or broccoli

Where the analysis tho

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I didn't really express opinion on most i just showed that mostly your perfomance lacking, you only joined when both slots are doomed so your accusations are hypocritical.

I'm actually confused what you mean here.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I AM SCUM HUNTING
HOW I AM SUPPOSED TO SCUM HUNT IF THE PERSON JUST GOES "SHUT IT, I AM ANNOYED"

YOU REPEAT SAME INVALID ARGUMENT LIKE 10 TIMES YES WE GOT THIS I AM NOT ON WAGON KNOCK IT OFF

So.... can we call it TvT and call it a day and just lim Dunnstral whose only contribution in this day phase was asking me a nonsense question and whose only contribution on whatever day phase it was we killed JV (I think Day 4?) was naked voting whoever people voted?

[Dunnstral]

I think the doc wouldnt work bcz burde was macho?

This is wrong because the doctor is targeting the person Random Nurse is targeting, not random nurse.

[Dunnstral]

Hey Broccoli Quest 2, can you briefly explain why it was a good idea for Guillotina to perform no kill last night.

I have no idea what you mean considering:
1. There WAS a kill last night
2. Guillotina is both replaced out AND dead

I meant the night before when random nurse and davesaz both died.

[Dunnstral]

I think it's clear to me that mafia have made some mechanical errors. I think Enchant has shown they have some understanding while Naerys has not. I am questioning you because I'm not sure where you are.

[Dunnstral]

I also think Guillotina was making mechanical errors and I pointed out some problems with their claim and how they were acting, namely that their claimed modifier came after their claimed results and so couldn't influence mafia decisions.

[Naerys]

This is wrong because the doctor is targeting the person Random Nurse is targeting, not random nurse.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Macho

Say RN targeted scum x and also Guillo used doc on scum x
Nurse dies bcz he hit scum and cant be protected. Scum doesnt die bcz the shot was turned against Nurse. The heal wouldnt do anything cuz scum x wouldnt die anyway and Nurse couldnt be protected.

[Naerys]

with me town and kyou likely town
scum is inenchant -broccoli-dunn
if the miller claims are both true then its enchant or broccoli

Where the analysis tho

It is analysis - method of elimination.

[Dunnstral]

Randomnurse attempts to vig mafia, but it is blocked by the doctor role before the bodyguard portion of their role kicks in. The shot is fully blocked on the mafia, so Randomnurse does not die in their place. Randomnurse being Macho only affects protective roles that target Randomnurse themself.

There's a small chance that int he above scenario Bodyguard would act before Doctor for some reason. In this scenario it's still not because of the Macho modifier that Randomnurse would die.

[Dunnstral]

Hey Broccoli Quest 2, can you briefly explain why it was a good idea for Guillotina to perform no kill last night.

I have no idea what you mean considering:
1. There WAS a kill last night
2. Guillotina is both replaced out AND dead

I meant the night before when random nurse and davesaz both died.

I'm not asking for you to explain what happened, I'm asking for you to explain how mafia could have played that night hpase better.

[Dunnstral]

Hey who was neighborized on night 4? Nobody has claimed this but the action should have gone off before davesaz died.

[Dunnstral]

OK reading back Dave would have been targetting PRs so that action likely failed.

[Dunnstral]

with me town and kyou likely town
scum is inenchant -broccoli-dunn
if the miller claims are both true then its enchant or broccoli

Where the analysis tho

It is analysis - method of elimination.

How did you get to "if the miller claims are both true then its enchant or broccoli"

[Naerys]

How did you get to "if the miller claims are both true then its enchant or broccoli"

Well. Idk if both are true, but the way those claims happened kinda feels if Dunn is miller then kyou is miller too. Also kyou feels towny through whole game.
So if kyou is miller what chance is that you are miller too? Could there be 2 or just 1? I personally think both could be true and that leaves Enchant and Broccoli

[ssbm_Kyouko]

TOWN
Your humble broccoli overlord
Enchant
Kyo
Naerys
Dunnstral
SCUM

Putting slot that wasnt on either scum wagons as 2nd town? Okay

Guillo was on both scum wagons iirc

[Naerys]

Guillo was on both scum wagons iirc

Yep. Thats why i am looking at those, that are out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Guillo was on both scum wagons iirc

Yep. Thats why i am looking at those, that are out.

Spoiler: length

Spoiler: I drafted this but after VCA/reconsideration I disagree with the plan - here is what I had for anyone curious

Guillo - 2-shot something something doc
RN - combined bodyguard disloyal vig
Davesaz - simple neighborizer
Dunn - no mech ties to the living - did receive Andres' FN message
Kyouko - no mech ties
Naerys - FNed to Guillo

Vanillas (4 alive):
Hu Tao - confirmed vanilla
Enchant/BQ2 - at least one confirmed, both after dave flip
JV (Timmer) - unconfirmed, joins Enchant/BQ2 category after toMorrow if Dave neighborizes successfully
KK - flipped
Elements - flipped


10 alive, 8-2 now. Lim one, if town, move to 6-2 or be 1 town!RN down - will refer to these as evens/odds.

Evens (assuming neighborization works): 2 mislims moves to 4-2 MELO. If we stay in the PRs (assuming JV gets confirmed vanilla), we can kill 2 of {Guillo, RN, Davesaz, Dunn, Kyouko, Naerys} before having to make the potentially game-losing choice in MELO.
Naerys should never die before Guillo because if Guillo is mislimmed (not scum) it removes Naerys from the POE. Dave should be allowed at least one more Night to Neighborize JV -
In evens, there is still a possibilty that RN is scum - assuming he lives this long, he's either getting blocked or getting clears. I've been thinking on this a little - the Andres kill makes sense mechanically because he was the only one left that could help us confirm who, if anyone, was being aliened.
With him dead now, he can't speak up and say "actually I targeted X (not RN) so if they didn't receive the message it means RN can't have been blocked last Night because either X or I was blocked"

Odds: 2 mislims and RN dying leads to 3-2 ELO, where we can kill 2 of {Guillo, Davesaz, Dunn, Kyouko, Naerys} before the potentially game-losing mislim. Again with the Naerys/Guillo thing, thats 2 of {Guillo, Davesaz, Dunn, Kyouko} and if both are misses then ELO is a 1v1 between the last 2 - no way are 2 (more) vanillas scum here I think, unless that's been the whole point of the setup.

Replaced all old names with current slot owners
D1 final:

KawaiiKame

-

Andresvmb

, Dunnstral, Kyouko,

Gamma

,

Black

,

Elements

, Naerys, JacksonVirgo,

Celebloki

Gamma

- Hu Tao, Guillotina
Enchant - dave,

KawaiiKame

ssbm_Kyouko -

Roden

Hu Tao - Broccoli Quest 2
not voting - Random Nurse, Enchant

D2 final:

Roden

- Broccoli Quest 2, Dunnstral, Kyouko, davesaz, Hu Tao, Guillotina,

Elements

, Naerys
Hu Tao - Random Nurse,

Roden

Elements

- Enchant,

Andresvmb

not voting - JacksonVirgo,

Celebloki

D3 final:

Elements

-

Andresvmb

, Hu Tao, ssbm_Kyouko, Dunnstral, Naerys, JacksonVirgo,

Elements

JacksonVirgo - Guillotina, Enchant, Broccoli Quest 2
not voting - Random Nurse, davesaz

Also looking at final VCs for quick patterns -
Hu Tao was on unlimmed scum D1 and on the D2(scum)/D3(town) final wagons: +town for being on scum on D1 and then joins in on the townblocking (below) after D1
Dunnstral, Kyouko, and Naerys on all 3 final wagons: inconclusive - though I know I'm town, I TR Naerys, and Naerys has the FN claim - so this is probably just townblocking
JV on both town wagons (D1/D3) - not voting when scum dies on D2: ++scum

Guillotina on scum D1 and on the scum wagon D2 - off both town wagons: +town/TMI, I suspect the claim but not necessarily the play as far as I can remember. Need to self-ISO.

Dave/BQ2 - off town, on scum, off town on D1/D2/D3: +town/TMI, but I TR BQ2 independently - dave could be TMI without looking at context of votes and recalling my general suspicion of his D1 play.
Random Nurse - not voting, off scum (voting HT with Roden), not voting: +slightly scum
Enchant - Not voting (was Keyleth at this point), off scum, off town: +slightly scum

I think, in a shocking new twist, I am going to ditch my mech plan as I've already been bitten in the ass once by Gamma in this game and accept this is not an Open setup and nothing is guaranteed, even less so when Jingle is the mod and it's a "complex" game.

I am down for JV or RN toDay. I suspect Andres was killed to allow scum!RN to get by claiming he could have been blocked. Aside from that his voting patterns are poor, but no worse than Enchant's. JV has the worst voting patterns at end of day, and I've already individually cased Timmer before him, and I think by both Timmer's play and the catchup is the most likely to flip scum. BQ2 has also been my town "rock" since Black died and he has been on the correct wagons all 3 Days and now he is pushing for JV, I'm going to go with it. Not as a sheep because I'm the one that originally cased Timmer, but as like a townblocking thing. Hopefully Dunn, Naerys, Hu Tao will all join this, JV will flip scum, and we'll have a solid voting block/towncore to move forward with

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Look at the green text (not the names in the VCs but later). My point is that scum!Guillo voted with 100% accuracy for the first few days to the point it was either town with really good reads or just TMI. I don't think Enchant being off the scum wagons is really that bad by itself

[Naerys]

Well, i dont think Guillo + his buddy would be on same wagon, imo they´d wish to keep distance from each other

[Dunnstral]

Well, i dont think Guillo + his buddy would be on same wagon, imo they´d wish to keep distance from each other

So who do you think is mafia here:

D2 final:

Roden

- Broccoli Quest 2, Dunnstral, Kyouko, davesaz, Hu Tao, Guillotina,

Elements

, Naerys
Hu Tao - Random Nurse,

Roden

Elements

- Enchant,

Andresvmb

not voting - JacksonVirgo,

Celebloki

D3 final:

Elements

-

Andresvmb

, Hu Tao, ssbm_Kyouko, Dunnstral, Naerys, JacksonVirgo,

Elements

JacksonVirgo - Guillotina, Enchant, Broccoli Quest 2
not voting - Random Nurse, davesaz

[Jingle]

@mod,

If RN and Guillotina, with their flipped roles and assuming no other interference, both targeted the same Mafia Goon on the same Night, would RN die or would he live? Assuming also that no other role/factional ability not mentioned tries to kill RN directly.

What im wondering is, would Guillo's Doctor take precedence over RN's Bodyguard, causing RN's vigilante bullet to be blocked before the bodyguard resolves? Meaning that the bullet would be gone and RN would live?

Doctor would resolve before bodyguard and no one would die, assuming no other role interference.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hey Broccoli Quest 2, can you briefly explain why it was a good idea for Guillotina to perform no kill last night.

I have no idea what you mean considering:
1. There WAS a kill last night
2. Guillotina is both replaced out AND dead

I meant the night before when random nurse and davesaz both died.

Ooooh

I guess because that way there would be no way to to differentiate between a guilty from RN and him being killed by maf.

Though technically in a town!Dunn world it's strictly better to kill RN than to no kill in order to prevent an inno.

UNVOTE:

Should have done that earlier.

[Jingle]

Vote Count 6.1

Dunnstral

(E-4):

Broccoli Quest 2

,

Naerys

(E-4):

ssbm_Kyouko

Broccoli Quest 2

(E-4):

Enchant

(E-4):

ssbm_Kyouko

(E-4):

Not Voting

: Naerys, Enchant, Dunnstral, ssbm_Kyouko, Broccoli Quest 2

With 5 alive it takes 3 to eject a player from the Game.

Deadline is (expired on 2024-01-20 22:00:00).

Mod Notes: The box on the left is full of bees. Please do not open it, the bees are napping.

[Dunnstral]

Well anyways. If I were mafia there's no need for me and Guillotina to kill Davesaz - they've already checked me, and Guillotina was a Doctor. Davesaz would have checked Guillotina, ssbm_Kyouko, or Naerys. If Naerys was lying about their role they'd need to kill Davesaz. Also Naerys does not seem to understand why no killing would have been good for mafia on that night so that also makes me suspect them as I feel mafia made a weird move.

[Naerys]

Mini 2321 is my first scum game if anyone is interested