Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[KayJayQueue]

he would have jumped on wagon to try and taste some of that sweet sweet credibility.

*confused Will Poulter meme* You guys are getting credibility?

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Snow

The informer must be dealt with(please someone get that reference)

I really trust Malachai, and this just makes sense

A licky boom boom down

[JacksonVirgo]

I hope I got that lmfao

[Doctor Drew]

VOTE: Snow

The informer must be dealt with(please someone get that reference)

I really trust Malachai, and this just makes sense

A licky boom boom down

I hope I got that lmfao

Yes hahaha

[Malachai]

He had his vote parked almost the entire time NM was under any form of heat. He didn’t move it, he didn’t commit to a bus and he didn’t actively try to protect NM. There’s no agenda behind his votes.

Then he should look neutral at best. You said that he looks the BEST based on the vote analysis, and I definitely don't agree with that. If you're focusing on vote analysis in particular, I would think the ones who come off the BEST would be whoever proactively started on Not Mafia.

If you look at FancyPants' language around Not Mafia, he just leaves him as null and says "we can do better". In retrospect, that really doesn't look good.

[JacksonVirgo]

He had his vote parked almost the entire time NM was under any form of heat. He didn’t move it, he didn’t commit to a bus and he didn’t actively try to protect NM. There’s no agenda behind his votes.

Then he should look neutral at best. You said that he looks the BEST based on the vote analysis, and I definitely don't agree with that. If you're focusing on vote analysis in particular, I would think the ones who come off the BEST would be whoever proactively started on Not Mafia.

If you look at FancyPants' language around Not Mafia, he just leaves him as null and says "we can do better". In retrospect, that really doesn't look good.

He does look the best, anyone else shows some chance of a scum based agenda whether that be a bus or trying to keep him alive. He was not only mafia but also a PR so my point is made stronger that scum wouldn’t sit idle and do nothing. Scum can park on their partner for late game cred whether that be earlier in the wagons lifespan or later, that doesn’t matter to me nearly as much to this.

[JacksonVirgo]

Keeping him as null isn’t VCA, that’s normal analysis and should be argued separately

[JacksonVirgo]

If you’re not able to seperate these things, then I can understand why you fail to see this.

[DragonEater70]

Votecount 2.2

Votecount 2.2

Snow2697 (3):

KayJayQueue, Malachai, Doctor Drew

Malachai (1):

JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (3):

Snow2697, Solon, FancyPants

With 7 Alive, it takes 4 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-03-22 03:39:58)

Mod Notes

Solon is V/LA until Monday

[Malachai]

If you’re not able to seperate these things, then I can understand why you fail to see this.

"You fail to" is not helpful language. Keep the focus on the argument.

If people can look both good and bad when they vote for scum, how is an analysis of vote count even useful at that point? It's like the saying goes: when everything is important, nothing is important. Scum absolutely do vote for non-scum all the time; there's no one true way in which people play scum.

And the point about what he said about having NM null is naturally a point of its own merit so there's not even a reason to say what you said above.

[Malachai]

Anyway I'd love for FancyPants to actually participate...

[JacksonVirgo]

If you’re not able to seperate these things, then I can understand why you fail to see this.

"You fail to" is not helpful language. Keep the focus on the argument.

If people can look both good and bad when they vote for scum, how is an analysis of vote count even useful at that point? It's like the saying goes: when everything is important, nothing is important. Scum absolutely do vote for non-scum all the time; there's no one true way in which people play scum.

And the point about what he said about having NM null is naturally a point of its own merit so there's not even a reason to say what you said above.

You’re taking one part of what I said, blowing it up and then basing it all on that. They look the best because they look the best. It’s less cut and dry on the wagon and requires either more skill in VCA or more reliance on particular assumptions I don’t consider myself confident enough in to consider. The comparison I made with “looks the best” was one make with a loose tongue and is entirely based on my own analysis.

VCA is important. It’s to analyse how people react over time, see if votes appear to be coming from somebody informed or not. Someone not doing squat when they need to be if they were scum, is a strong sign. You’re oversimplifying this entire thing to a harmful degree, yes scum vote for non-scum all the time. Its the way of the game but that isn’t what this is. It’s deeper. There’s no agenda here. None. There’s nothing beyond their own singular motivations. There’s no drive to actively swing one way or another against a scum PR. Arguably the sole PR considering what it is.

Because of that, I’m confident their votes come from an uninformed perspective, Town. The assumptions required to bring them down are either too loose and mean next to nothing or there’s too many assumptions that are needed to come to conclusion it comes from a scum perspective.

[JacksonVirgo]

TL;DR looking behind the motivation they would have had as town or as scum. This feels exponentially more likely to come from a Town perspective.

[JacksonVirgo]

Throwing away logic that you don’t inherently agree with your philosophical razor of “there’s no one true way in which people play scum” is just naive. You can cut off nearly anything you want with that.

[KayJayQueue]

TL;DR looking behind the motivation they would have had as town or as scum. This feels exponentially more likely to come from a Town perspective.

So what about if I looked into his history and in a scum game (one of only two I found in his last 5 years of mafia games), he told his partners he’d never bus or vote for them?

[Solon]

V/LA until Monday

If at any point you could pop in and just give your current read on who you think is scum that would be awesome.

Without having read anything today apart from comments aimed at me, I think eliminating Snow, FancyPants and Drew in any order wins the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

TL;DR looking behind the motivation they would have had as town or as scum. This feels exponentially more likely to come from a Town perspective.

So what about if I looked into his history and in a scum game (one of only two I found in his last 5 years of mafia games), he told his partners he’d never bus or vote for them?

Did you find that he said this? It’s not as simple as whether or not a person is more inclined to bus or not but the fact he did nothing about it. Didn’t react one way or the other.

If you’re a wolf and your PR is being pushed. Do you do absolutely nothing? Let the game run it’s course almost completely untouched by your hands?

My assumption here is that scum would, even to a small degree, push the world that they want. What would scum!fancy want here by doing nothing and letting whatever wagon form, knowing his PR was constantly at the top.

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m open to being convinced, hence me showing what I believe my root assumption is. This post is mostly to Malachai who I hope doesn’t think I’m being a brick wall here

[KayJayQueue]

TL;DR looking behind the motivation they would have had as town or as scum. This feels exponentially more likely to come from a Town perspective.

So what about if I looked into his history and in a scum game (one of only two I found in his last 5 years of mafia games), he told his partners he’d never bus or vote for them?

Did you find that he said this? It’s not as simple as whether or not a person is more inclined to bus or not but the fact he did nothing about it. Didn’t react one way or the other.

If you’re a wolf and your PR is being pushed. Do you do absolutely nothing? Let the game run it’s course almost completely untouched by your hands?

My assumption here is that scum would, even to a small degree, push the world that they want. What would scum!fancy want here by doing nothing and letting whatever wagon form, knowing his PR was constantly at the top.

“Here's some personal advice for playing as the baddies:
- DON'T ever make a post about power roles, don't speculate about power roles in the game thread at all.
- DON'T claim a power role UNLESS you are quite literally about to get executed i.e. someone is threatening to hammer you imminently, even then avoid claiming your role until the very last second, you'd be surprised how easily a wagon on you will get derailed.
- DO let your "suspicions" be known, you don't have to be super active if you don't want to but you should always say your suspects and WHY they are your suspects, it doesn't matter if your logic isn't great, just have some sort of justification for voting. Many people vote for bad reasons, just as long as it LOOKS like you are actually hunting for scum.

As for how I will play - I'll pretty much never bus you (vote for you, or solicit others to vote for you) I don't think it's good strategy

”

viewtopic.php?t=81112

Removed a banned word.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sure, I’ll humour that. Assuming Fancy won’t bus in every game they play. They say this because they believe it’s a bad play. Why?

Because it doesn’t benefit the wolves until it really needs to happen. Would sitting by and letting them be voted out be exactly what he considers a bad play? It’s the exact same thing except this is due to lack of action in this circumstance.

If he truly believed in that playstyle, and is sticking to it even now. He would be doing the opposite and finding a wagon to protect NM of which he did not do. He sat on a vanity wagon throughout majority of the lifespan of the NM wagon

[KayJayQueue]

Maybe because now you’re townreading him for this play lol seems like it worked out for him especially if he felt NM was a liability. (not out of the realm of possibility)

[JacksonVirgo]

I refuse to believe someone that is so adamant about not bussing would let lady luck take the wheel to protect their PR

[Snow2697]

I don't think Kay was able to put Drew at E-1 where, as you say, she called me and NM scums. This would have put her under Drew's attack,

which a player of her style should avoid.

The bolded / italicized portion. Explain what you mean by that, please?

When a player, who aims at avoiding conflicts, sees Drew grilling Roland, she should try to stay as far away from Drew as possible.

So, you again try to get into a driving seat. But before you do that you - not me - should explain one thing. If I am scum, then Drew is town. If Drew is town, my vote into him was 2nd. I don't think that prospects of a train on Drew at that point were realistic. But just minutes after my 2nd vote vs town!Drew you put your 3rd (with scummy!me and scummy!NM) and you tried to lim Drew. So, instead of scum!NM you were collecting votes into town!Drew. How is it that I am scum and you are not? If I am scum on your case, then you are the scummiest player at the table.

[Snow2697]

I would range her between sus and locked town on my scale.

That’s pretty much the entire scale

But hey, if you’ll get off by back, I’ll take it lol

Fist, your status is within big range, but it depends on one specific factor, whatever the others think about this factor and its reliability. So, there is nothing funny.
Second, it's not the "entire scale", but rather extreme positions of the scale. So, your "entire scale" point is simply wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

Dude, you literally said the entire scale. That’s the words you chose. If you didn’t mean them, don’t use those words