Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: No Bane

Choose: Two

Arbitrary Fake-vote: Zar

[Gammagooey]

hiiii

also protecting a person who we bane would reaally defeat the purpose of giving someone a bane in general

[Gammagooey]

oh

we don't get to vote for a boon unless we choose someone for the bane

reading is tech I guess

Bane: Zar

[Gammagooey]

Titus the banes and boons will probably be different during the next minor day.

[Gammagooey]

Bane: Marquis

I'm voting Two btw because scum can get past one protection very easily if a PR claims. each protect being two means they have to dedicate 3/4ths of the scumteam to killing someone they think is likely to be protected, and if they get down to 2 members alive and Viktor is dead (since he has Duplicate) then they probably can't get past it at all.

[Gammagooey]

I thought it'd be considered the same as an Active ability but maybe not.

@Hito/mod

: Can a single scum member use Unmake twice given the wording of Might?

[Gammagooey]

hihi

marquis baneing me I think is a little mediocre but considering that I baned him for literally no reason (not even gut this time, I just wanted to bane someone for something that would look like not-RVS to get people out of that mindset even though it basically still was) I can't reaaally hate on him for it

Thinking UT is scum for being generally aggressive and catty is super dumb because that is just UT as a person

I will actually read things and maaaybe even have opinions tonight
definitely maybe

[Gammagooey]

i'm slightly more-so but not actually caught up

agree with whoever said deas was probtown - #219 feels pretty genuine and some of his later posts were very town too

I don't really like Titus so far and Cheery Dog likes her even less than I do, I don't like how kind of surface-level all her posting's been so far

Bulb is the worst of anyone that I actually have a read on at this point, it's mostly gut but it's primarily for his #341 and that I think his comments on Titus (regardless of Titus's actual alignment) are really easy for scum to fake in that situation. Plus Deas thinks he's scum so bonus bonus

going out in a bit, probably going to finish reading and comment more tomorrow barring 10-20 more pages appearing like

magic

but I'm very fine with Bulb as an actually serious Bane vote that I want to push to get done as soon as possible.

also I don't agree with intentionally baneing someone who we probably aren't going to lynch tomorrow but at the same time I don't care about forcing the lynch to be on that person either- I think we should just try to bane probscum and then lynch probscum tomorrow, with that player maybe or maybe not being the most probscum then given evolving reads and a longer deadline. this is kinda useless though compared to the actual bane conversation so if you're going to bug me about it give me a read or two while you're at it.

Bane: Bulbazak

[Gammagooey]

Hey gamma, welcome. Why do you think I am surface levele?

How could you miss Tammy Zar?

What do you think of the bane wagon on you?

Lots of words... said nothing useful.

I just think it seems like you've skimmed over a lot of the game and you're commenting on everything that catches your eye instead of putting much thought into your posts here - you commented on tammy's 5 hours instead of 5 days when her next post a minute already says that, and tammy not baning zar when she had, and your mastin read from what i've read so far seems really mediocre.

I didn't miss tammy & zar, Zar had a minor town post or two and tammy looked townish if I remember right.

actiondan and vezok are 2/3rds of my wagon so they're gonna get shrugged at

[Gammagooey]

Oh and after you guys inevitably realize that this slot is town, we're bane'ing Gamma. No exceptions (assuming my read-through of this thread or my teammates don't change my mind).

So I don't think I've ever played with you aside from times when you were in a hydra with someone else

but I don't actually get why you're making this such a strong statement, especially if you haven't actually read over the whole game yet

Why do you think I'm scum?

[Gammagooey]

Like I haven't done shit

but I feel like I've been fairly open about not having done shit worth reading yet

[Gammagooey]

Gamma:

To sum it up as best I can, Gamma's posts (when they actually come) are too focused on mechanics talk and very little in the way of genuine scumhunting. Even the reads in posts like #614 have surface level reasons and padded with more mechanics talk. Tonally, he comes off as distant and dispassionate, and the overall activity level is poor (something that Regfan told me is in line with his scum meta although I will confirm it for myself later). Overall, dude reads like scum mailing it in.

Feel like I should point out that the day has been open for a grand total of 3 days and some hours at this point, one of which I had real life things happening after work so implying that I'm scum intentionally trying to lurk through everything is a little silly. Also have plans on Thursday that'll from prevent me from posting much, if at all, then but I'll have plenty of time tonight to go into stuff.
You're not wrong about me not having much scumhunting yet, trying to read people based on mechanics talk isn't something I think is reliable or worth delving into very hard and we're just now getting into the part of the game have opinions on people for actual things that they've done instead of what theories they have about the setup.

[Gammagooey]

so

post I was talking about in regards to Zar was post 221 seeming genuine and I just didn't get a scumvibe from all the posts that people were railing on him for. Empire's entrance reads as pretty null to me, I'd expect the strong LOOK AT ME I'M DOING ALL THE THINGS AND KICKING ASS esque play from either alignment, and the scum read on me makes sense even if I think the super-confident early committment to it seems pretty weird. admittedly haven't read over most of his big reads post yet though.

Don't really have particularly strong scum reads aside from bulba, if I had to pick out someone else I'd probably go with GuyInFreezer just because he has a ton of posts and none of them look like a towntell to me, there's a pretty giant pile of people I don't have any real semblance of a read on though.

vezok is actually a fairly strong town read compared to most people since he seems really genuine about thinking I'm scum and empire's town but not being able to articulate it
UT still looks pretty genuine IMO and I think he'd be pushing people harder as scum here instead of just commenting about a lot of things
and TSO's comments+questions yesterday seem like they're coming from a town mindset

that's pretty much it for my reads so far aside from the stuff I mentioned yesterday, still need to read I think the last page or two and empire's giant read list, and have no intention of reading tammy's megawall ever.

@empire though-

People have had opinions about things beyond mechanics for what seems like quite some time now so we expected you to have more than what you've been putting in and it feels like you've been using the mechanics stuff as a crutch to generate content. Also, your tone just feels off - it seems like you're disinterested in a way that doesn't suggest the root cause is preoccupation with RL stuff.

With regards to the choice I was keeping things to myself more than a bit because I didn't want to be talking about optimal scum play in a complex setup like this.
also I'm kinda surprised you're town reading bulba when the read you posted on him has one minor thing I think is probably true/genuine regardless of his alignment + a teammates read on him. This isn't really a question but I wouldn't mind you giving some more thoughts on him if you've got 'em.

[Gammagooey]

I'd rather curious as to your stance on Bulba.

His relatively early quote-striping and other content-y posts just felt completely devoid of any town thought process- like he was just reacting to other people instead of running through everything himself and coming up with theories and ideas with the exception of some coin theory stuff about mastin which is super easy to come up with as scum.

[Gammagooey]

also bulba's reponse to deas seems super excessive and fillery but that's probably a lot more likely to be me being confirmation biased than the rest of what I think about him.

[Gammagooey]

I think that's a hammer

Boon: vezok

since he's my actual towniest read, but I'm expecting to have to change this to actually get it done to deasvail or Tammy (I'd also definitely boon TSO if anyone else is thinking about it)

[Gammagooey]

I think that's a hammer

Boon: vezok

since he's my actual towniest read, but I'm expecting to have to change this to actually get it done to deasvail or Tammy (I'd also definitely boon TSO if anyone else is thinking about it)

You don't want to wait until we know what the Boon is?

it's theoretically possible that the boon itself will change who I want to get it

but barring people saying that 'Hey this is good for me because *mysterious role reasons*' I'd be pretty surprised if that were the case. (and I'd rather not go into the hole of giving people boons because rolezzzz unless it's clearly only useful for people with/without abilities already)

[Gammagooey]

yeah I'm not actually comfortable giving that boon to anyone that isn't a strong town read

Boon: Vezok

[Gammagooey]

also

I think we might want to have 2-3 people we think are scummy say that they're detecting tonight to try to find Viktor- since traces always come up null for him we can start clearing people of being Viktor on a successful trace - I'm a bit wary of saying that we should immediately lynch someone tomorrow if they come up with a couple of trace fails in case scum have something that would make traces fail on other people but we can at least start clearing people of being Viktor in case he/she's wound up as one of the stronger players on their team and doesn't get lynched for a while.

[Gammagooey]

I think we might want to have 2-3 people we think are scummy say that they're detecting tonight to try to find Viktor- since traces always come up null for him we can start clearing people of being Viktor on a successful trace -
I'm a bit wary of saying that we should immediately lynch someone tomorrow if they come up with a couple of trace fails in case scum have something that would make traces fail on other people but we can at least start clearing people of being Viktor in case he/she's wound up as one of the stronger players on their team and doesn't get lynched for a while.

I don't want volunteers for this by the way. It needs to be at least a few people coming to a consensus on scummy people for it to have a chance to actually hit Viktor, not people volunteering to get cleared of being him.

[Gammagooey]

siiiiiiiiiigh

empire putting all this effort into explaining what I'm thinking and why and then having you and tammy pop up and say "omg why'd you jerks not bane gamma/better lynch gamma tomorrow" is kind of exhausting.

[Gammagooey]

and by tammy i mean titus because names are hard

[Gammagooey]

already voting to boon vezok

and already said that he's a strong townread because his super strong defense of empire without actually being able to explain it (along with his opinion on me being scum earlier) reads as very very genuine

[Gammagooey]

you were doing well earlier tso damnit

go away

shoo

come back with something intelligent to say

[Gammagooey]

they can want to withhold info

but they way he did pushed for empire town VERY strongly, in a way that is actually trying really hard to convince people to not go after him, WHILE doing it in a way that would likely get him no town credit whatsoever is very very much a town mindset and not a scum one.

[Gammagooey]

not the way he did it

look at his iso close enough and you can basically figure out what and why he's thinking at any point during it.

that's not coming from scum. I am supremely confident about this, and I don't have a habit of saying that lightly.

[Gammagooey]

nope

gonna go insane

SMASH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eENJTCMq7I

[Gammagooey]

can't even get the link right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvi3UDQdl7k

[Gammagooey]

I do

this game is just TEARING ME APART ut

and vezok really is obvtown for how he's playing

mindsets man

[Gammagooey]

thats a big ask man

i'll do it but i feel like i'll immediately regret it

[Gammagooey]

why

why is all of sitechat's userlist and posts under the bottom of the screen now

[Gammagooey]

so

post I was talking about in regards to Zar was post 221 seeming genuine and I just didn't get a scumvibe from all the posts that people were railing on him for. Empire's entrance reads as pretty null to me, I'd expect the strong LOOK AT ME I'M DOING ALL THE THINGS AND KICKING ASS esque play from either alignment, and the scum read on me makes sense even if I think the super-confident early committment to it seems pretty weird. admittedly haven't read over most of his big reads post yet though.

Don't really have particularly strong scum reads aside from bulba, if I had to pick out someone else I'd probably go with GuyInFreezer just because he has a ton of posts and none of them look like a towntell to me, there's a pretty giant pile of people I don't have any real semblance of a read on though.

vezok is actually a fairly strong town read compared to most people since he seems really genuine about thinking I'm scum and empire's town but not being able to articulate it
UT still looks pretty genuine IMO and I think he'd be pushing people harder as scum here instead of just commenting about a lot of things
and TSO's comments+questions yesterday seem like they're coming from a town mindset

that's pretty much it for my reads so far aside from the stuff I mentioned yesterday, still need to read I think the last page or two and empire's giant read list, and have no intention of reading tammy's megawall ever.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma, from your recent thoughts on UT and vezok, it appears you tend to townread being open and showing your cards, like UT is doing. But I don't think it's past the water mark of, well, any player here, especially given that coaching is a thing, to appear "genuine". You're going to have to explain what exactly you think is genuine if you want your townread to have any actual credence with anyone. I'd ask you to explain your townread on me while you're at it, but we all know I'm town, and I'm sure you're a busy man.

I kinda doubt that what I say is going to give you given your opinion on it but look at vezok's play especially and ask yourself if it looks like he's been coached to do anything this game. I'll agree that it'll be a lot easier to make more genuine looking reads with the other players on people's teams helping them but all of vezok's posts look like he's just posting his immediate thoughts on the game without any filter on them, which is INCREDIBLY difficult for most people to fake as scum given that they have a completely different mindset focused around avoiding suspicion and finding targets for lynches and nightkills.

my read on UT is a lot weaker but I see where he's coming from in pretty much all of his posts, especially where he's irritated with Titus's playstyle. I just see similar thought processes to the ones I've had and I think those are more likely to be coming from town.

and yeah analyzing people's mindsets and whether they make more sense as town or scum is the vast majority of how I scumhunt, especially early game, given that just about every other aspect of a person's play can be much more easily manipulated by scum to look more like themselves as town.

[Gammagooey]

Starting to lose my confidence in the Gamma scumread (and looking at the PT, Regfan apparently is too), find his reactions to people stating scumreads on him genuine and the adamance with which he is stating the vezok townread looks like he really believes it. Which means I might be wrong about some stuff and there's still a lot of grey area so some reassessing is going to need to take place.

actually I can see myself pushing about that hard for vezok-town as scum considering that it'd basically be kind of trying to hijack the tell I'm using on him to make other people read me as town, though maybe not in the same way exactly. reactions are a fine reason to find me town though :3

also still vezok for boonage 2015

[Gammagooey]

still want vezok booned

still think bulba is scum after going over his iso, don't like him ignoring all of what I've said about vezok and just commenting on how bad consensus can be sometimes instead of trying to actually convince people that vezok could be scum, probably going to have more to say about him tomorrow when it actually matters.

also empire's idea of having the sign of the person who gets boon targeted outed is still dumb. it's gives scum a free kill

whenever they want

if the person targeted is town. It's not like scum would have to kill them early and give us more information by doing that, and making it easier for scum to make a double kill or even triple kill later in the game is very, very bad.

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Bulbazak

[Gammagooey]

Going to say this now before someone claims the trace on me.

I detected last night, correctly guessed and therefore got a positive effect. I don't get told what the effect which is annoying. But I figure it should clarify any issues someone that traced me might have.

pretty sure this was just hito saying that you guessed correctly

[Gammagooey]

TTH hasn't done anything and him coming up with a bad trace result is probably lynchworthy, I just don't really have anything useful to say about him until he gets into the thread.

I've been kind of overloaded with work and personal stuff recently, I'll do my best to find time to share my bulba thoughts at least tomorrow night.

[Gammagooey]

Simply put, DV is on my team's list of expected nightkills, so detecting him is suspicious.

Is

that

it?

...Seriously?
THAT?
It?

Investigating Deas.Vail.



I'm sorry. Can't help it. Yeah, the TTH wagon is BS.

you do realize that scum will have been detecting their likely nightkill targets if they want to not have 3 different actions all spent on killing a single person right?

[Gammagooey]

Add Gamma to the people to vote. I think the obliviousness is a put-on. mastin, can you explain that read?

Yeah there's nothing oblivious about my opinion about you. I see exactly what you're implying and my instinctual reaction to all shit like that from remotely competent players is to burn it to the ground because there is literally nothing that prevents or even hinders scum from trying to get away with doing the exact same thing with absolutely no downside.

But if you'll notice I'm still a lot more confident in bulba being scum than you so :3

and I actually think I'll be able to post words about it sometime tonight instead of tomorrow too!

p-edit: sorry to see ya go empire, I hope the stress decrease makes everything a lot better :)

[Gammagooey]

@Gammagooey, I think I'm missing a lot from #1568. Can you back up and explain to me?

no.

[Gammagooey]

this is probably a bit rambly

So to me bulba's early posts just feel really empty. I don't like that all of his early posting about mastin could easily be something that he legitimately thinks and believes to be true as scum, his early certainty in his cheetory read feels overly confident for how early in the game it was at the time, and his early townread on Titus doesn't feel justified to me at all and felt like a fabricated read when I think Titus could definitely be convinced/talked through her mastin read the way she was as either alignment.

I also think his read on vezok was pretty garbage, that his discrediting way of going after Deas and I using wording like this-

Do you have anything more substantial, or are you going to just dance around the surface.

is a minor scumtell, that his vote on me coming right as he might think the little wave of suspicion around me might show up to back him up without actually giving anything on why he thinks I'm scum, and don't see any reads based on his own thought processes that stand out as something that shows that he's likely town- pretty much all his scumreads I can see that aren't about fairly to highly talked about players seem to be based on their reactions to him as opposed to being from reading over them and seeing something that strikes him as being scummy.

It feels a LOT like an enormous chunk of the talking he's doing here is for the sake of arguing as opposed to actually getting scumreads and getting them lynched.

Admittedly I don't have a ton of other solid reads since I just haven't really been able to keep a handle on 50 pages of this many players and he has had a few little chunks of things that have looked town but I think that pretty much all of them aren't hard to fake as scum (including the posts about mollie, if bulba is scum I doubt mollie would go look up all of his scumbuddies instead of just giving him legitimate looking reads to post) and my gut feeling about him early game was AWFUL and I'm pretty sure I'm still going to want him dead by the end of this day.

[Gammagooey]

yeah I missed a few words in that paragraph after the quote but I think the meaning is still pretty clear

second line should be "on why he thinks I'm scum is bad, and I don't see any reads based on his own thought processes"

[Gammagooey]

@bulba- I'm not going to quote all the individual things I'm responding to from you because I think that it'll create an enormously worthless clutter of word-garbage but if you want to go find your post and follow along with exactly what I'm referencing to make it easier to process then feel free.

-You would know that Titus is town, but that doesn't stop you from believing that the posts she was making SHOULD make her likely or clearly town based on what you legitimately believes looks like or are towntells in her play. I definitely try to match up a lot of my reads as scum to what I think I'd actually say and believe as town and I think that most not-brand-new players do the same thing.

- I see where you're interacting with Titus, I just see no reason why that conversation can't be coming from you as scum.

-Saying that my entire read is based on your vote on me is not only a godamn WORTHLESS combination of only seeing what's convenient for you to see and an attempt to discredit my read on you, it's also clearly not true considering that I've been scumreading you since FAR before your vote on me and have been posting about it since pretty early on in minor day 1.

-I see you attacking Marquis for his reaction to you and you commenting on the big posters and players of the game, and then voting Aronis of the wonder-lurker posse instead of making a stand on any of them. What I don't see is any commitment to pushing on a scum-read that might put you in danger of being widely disagreed with or you having any visible likely-town thought processes that are resulting in any of your reads here.

[Gammagooey]

-Saying that my entire read is based on your vote on me is not only a godamn WORTHLESS combination of only seeing what's convenient for you to see and an attempt to discredit my read on you, it's also clearly not true considering that I've been scumreading you since FAR before your vote on me and have been posting about it since pretty early on in minor day 1.

Also I feel like I should mention this

I don't think that this is in particular is completely out of the question to be coming from you as town, but the way that you've been responding to DeasVail and I by stating that we're reading you for completely different reasons than the ones we're stating and trying to downplay our actual opinions as much as possible is Horrifically manipulative and if you are town it's very narcissistic to keep saying that we can't possibly be scumreading you for the reasons we're actually giving.

[Gammagooey]

^thats in regards to bulba if it wasn't clear

[Gammagooey]

his tammy read seems like it's more likely than not coming from town, I'm pretty much ignoring all of his posts about nightplay garbage since it could be easily coming from town or scum imo.

[Gammagooey]

@cheet-Mostly gut but the way he responded to people when Tammy was a boon possibility feels pretty likely to be town thoughts and motivation to me

[Gammagooey]

Just because of the timing of it and going against the grain of all of the townreads on Tammy sort of dealio? Or something more subtle than that?

his comments regarding tammy's boon feel purposeful and like he's trying to affect the game for the better in a way that I think makes more sense coming from town than scum.

[Gammagooey]

hey cheet, why are you still voting esp? the tone of your posts seems to suggest that you're at least not particularly confident in him faking the obtuseness as scum.

[Gammagooey]

hey cheet, why are you still voting esp? the tone of your posts seems to suggest that you're at least not particularly confident in him faking the obtuseness as scum.

Leading the player..ewww

You're more or less right in that I'm only kind of scumreading Esp after this last exchange. I just don't really know who I'd want to vote for right now alternatively.
I have a bunch of slight scumreads, and if I felt particularly strongly about someone else I'd probably switch, but as of right now it'd just be kind of a vanity vote which I'm not really a huge fan of outside of RVS.

haters gon' hate

[Gammagooey]

^Treating everything as a trap for scum waiting to be sprung isn't actually beneficial if you want to just get more information on why people are thinking what they are.

and about espy I'm confident enough to push for him not getting lynched today.

[Gammagooey]

^just read my iso, I literally just went over it with cheetory.

and yeah it did, it's just why he feels the way he does instead of how he feels.

[Gammagooey]

@Titus:

@cheet-Mostly gut but the way he responded to people when Tammy was a boon possibility feels pretty likely to be town thoughts and motivation to me

Just because of the timing of it and going against the grain of all of the townreads on Tammy sort of dealio? Or something more subtle than that?

his comments regarding tammy's boon feel purposeful and like he's trying to affect the game for the better in a way that I think makes more sense coming from town than scum.

like I went into about as much detail as I can explain here, already said it's mostly a gut read.

[Gammagooey]

gut read doesn't mean particularly weak read.

it means a read based on the tone of how he's been posting and the way I think he's been playing, and how I think that matches up with a town mindset. If you want to disagree with those specific posts I'm talking about coming from a town mindset then go look them up and tell me why you think I'm wrong about them, otherwise we're probably just not going to see eye-to-eye for approximately the millionth time and I'll be happy hoping that what I've said about him will convince other people of it instead of cluttering up the thread talking to you for another 10 posts.

Also I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about with 'tearing reasons to shreds'.

[Gammagooey]

What someone said the word cheeky im here what's going on

[Gammagooey]

The only cage im going in is a drunk cage

punk

[Gammagooey]

No titus

You and your actually horrifying number of posts have to feel my Toshiba's yourself

You must belieeeeve in my towninesa for it to become your guiding force in the game

Also autocorrect actually made this post better so im leaving it in

[Gammagooey]

I am completely failling to see a reason why esp's posting here is more likely coming from scum than town and would like to hear words from people about it that don't come from vezok because he's hella town and also don't use the word lurking because using it to describe esp while ignoring about half the game (probably including myself) being similar will make me want to vomit on your soul.

I also am really skeeved out by the overall tone of singer's posts and I'm having a hard time seeing them come from a scumhunting mindset

I also also kind of want to lynch cheetory because I think his esp push feels off

aaaand also also also I might sort of think that bulba could be town that's just being sketchy and a little manipulative and is scumhunting in a way that is pretty easy for scum to fake but I expect that this opinion will change again when bulba continues doing those things and i continue to hate them

I should reread some things soon but uh I'm probably just not going to do anything like that to any substantial degree for a while because busyness and a strong lack of motivation to do so

VOTE: Vote: singersigner

Also why are so many people still not voting
srsly
srsly you guys
its dumb

[Gammagooey]

^not really opportunistic, more like it just didn't really seem to me that you believed esp was going to flip scum but it seemed like you were still nudging people towards it

with the vote change you are now a solid shrug out of ten

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma

Nacho wants to know what the fuck that singer vote was. he's calling it garbage.

best way to describe it is probably that singer feels like she's trying to display her emotions as much as possible to get read as town for how she's reacting to the things happening around her. it doesn't feel like she's legitimately suspicious of anyone - just that she's bouncing off everything that's been happening.

granted, i could see her potentially doing it as town because of her playstyle whereas most of the playerlist doing something like that I would probably go completely berserk on getting them lynched, I just think that it's still more likely to be coming from her as scum than town.

[Gammagooey]

@ffery- how much has nacho actually played with singer btw?

[Gammagooey]

@ffery- how much has nacho actually played with singer btw?

also i know fuck meta and it's still early game and everything else aaaand I wouldn't bring this up at all if I wasn't already scumreading her for her tone but her play does seem more like http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17388 metamafia than maiden http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=22173 or Chosen Ones http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Gammagooey]

Gamma that looks an awful lot like selective meta to fit your agenda. Your most recent example is three years ago, and the only scum game (meta mafia) was a grand total of 35 posts.

I know you have more recent, up-to-date, and accurate meta, so it's making me even more uncomfortable that you even negate it with "Fuuuck meta."

i don't remember playing any other games with you when you were scum?

[Gammagooey]

I wish I could quote his reaction to this meta. Your case is awful. he doesn't think of town-you as being awful.

It's really less of a case and more of an explanation of my read even though thats kind of semantic-y

Is drunk an emotion?

I feel (and so does Nacho) that she's been using interactions to get her head in the game during the catch-up process. The catch-up feels uncomfortable - it's a huge game that has the input of somewhere close to 80 players to disentangle and sort through. Feeling uncomfortable pitched headfirst into that doesn't strike me as scummy. Players who are trading places in these games have more of a leg-up even in this game.

It's pretty common knowledge I think that singer hates playing as scum. I can see where you're coming from but I think writing off her being uncomfortable as just because she's going through a whole lot of content at once isn't an intelligent thing to do here. I'll take another look at her iso soon for Nacho's sake though.

[Gammagooey]

^and i think you attacking the individual games I posted for your town meta is more than a little dumb and arbitrary when one of them I brought up specifically because Nacho was in it with you and the other was just another large theme I remembered being in with you.

the point of bringing up those games isn't 'omg i think singer is scum because she's playing differently' which is always garbage, it's more like *i think singer's tone doesn't really seem like she's scumhunting and these are some games that i have personally seen singer play in (i was in the dead qt for a chunk of nacho's game with you) that helps to show my background with singer and why I think it's not just a playstyle nulltell*

[Gammagooey]

I completely fail to see why people actually think esp is going to flip scum aside from "oh mannn that VT claim and comments about detecting was bad play and could have been a scum gambit" while ignoring the rest of his actual play.

[Gammagooey]

@ff I just dont think the token argument is worth much of anything compared to his actual play.

[Gammagooey]

Also the people im referring to I guess are cdb and ut, I just dont remember seeing anything from them about esp aside from 'yeah sure lynching him is fine'

[Gammagooey]

i'm extrapolating maybe unfairly for other players

but i really don't see why several people are on this wagon

Also the people im referring to I guess are cdb and ut, I just dont remember seeing anything from them about esp aside from 'yeah sure lynching him is fine'

I think he's annoying and it's page fucking 94 I want the game to get on there's too much informationless posting and BS

that's good enough for me

I'm tired of reading his posts

this is the laziest fucking garbage.
what's your opinion on singer's play and let's say cheetory and GuyInFreezer's too

[Gammagooey]

i'm trying to get in the mindset of the people voting him for *MYSTERIES* and make them not go with their immediate gut instinct of 'well this could be coming from scum' just because it's a possibility when there are a thousand thousand other possibilities of scummy behavior but this one in particular sticks out to them.

[Gammagooey]

I am not talking about you and your 400 posts of splattered words about everything that has happened in the entire game

this is me trying to get the people that are voting esp for ?????, which includes UT and mastin and if my memory is correct CDB, to re-evaluate what the hell they're doing and why.

this is the laziest fucking garbage.
what's your opinion on singer's play and let's say cheetory and GuyInFreezer's too

gamma plz

no.

it's absolute garbage. I know this game is a shitshow to read through and evaluate, but TRY to read through the other players and actually hunt for scum instead of lazily hopping on esp's wagon when I don't see any reason why his ACTUAL PLAY IN THIS GAME, not token bullshit and not floaty gambit possibilities, is more likely coming from a scum mindset than a town one.

[Gammagooey]

i) I'm expecting some tryhard bullshit from scum this game. Trying really hard to get towntelled for behavior seems like something that scum would do in Team Mafia, especially in this game. Do you agree or disagree?
ii) Espeonage has been sitting on an empty Marquis vote without pushing it or elaborating on it beyond just defending TTH's case there. It feels like empty play and there's no weight behind anything he's done there beyond just sheeping TTH. It reads super hard as active coasting to me.
iii) He slung mud at singersigner as the momentum started to build there without changing his vote which reads to me as setup for joining the wagon there without looking like bandwagoning later. "Look at how I talked about it earlier, I'm not just opportunistically changing votes now!"

I'm not going to have time to actually read over any of the stuff you're talking about until tomorrow night but these are my immediate thoughts on it

i)'trying to get towntelled for behavior' is the vaguest thing ever. point out individual posts where you think he did that and what exactly he was trying to get towntelled for if you think it's true. Trying to act like town in general is way different from the posts I think he's made about his opinions on Tammy that I think at minimum show legitimate confusion about why Tammy's taking everything personally, and I personally think that his thoughts on her and the timing when he tried to get the boon away from tammy is more likely to be indicative of town trying to stop what he sees as a legitimate threat to the game than scum posturing on getting a boon away from tammy when I think it was very unlikely that Tammy getting the boon would meaningfully affect scum.

ii) I think this and iii are more likely to be looking for guilt and finding something approximating it than something that is particularly likely to come from a scum mindset. Why do you think esp is more likely to be coasting the way he is as scum than town? Do you think he believes he can get away with it? Do you think he just doesn't have a better alternative? Why exactly?
iii) I personally see this as not more likely to be scum doing it for the reasons you said as it could be town just commenting on something they agree with. Why do you think the scum possibility of planning to vote singer later and setting it up now is more likely than town reacting and commenting on someone else's read?

probably going to be gone for the most part until after work tomorrow, I'm just out of time for now and doing stuff tonight. I do intend to put on some glitch mob and hash out some opinions on espeonage if other people show up tomorrow though.

[Gammagooey]

You'll have to convince both me and nacho about singer. We both townread Empire's replace out.

What part of the replace out looked town to you? The mental health explanation is absolutely not alignment indicative, and I think it's pretty obvious that Empire would be putting in a lot of effort into his last post of the game to try to help out his team before he goes as either alignment.

[Gammagooey]

Also why was Vezok booned. That seemed not very good play and very odd coming from Fferylt from what I remember

vezok was booned because he's obvtown and making ABSOLUTELY sure we didn't give the boon to scum was a very high priority.

[Gammagooey]

what posts in particular does nacho (or you) see the excitement and aggressiveness in? If I were to guess I'd say that you're likely reading singer the way you are for her early, longer posts fairly soon after she replaced in- she does ask a pretty decent amount of questions and engage with people around then, but aside from #1791 that I need to go check the context for to me it looks like a lot of her townier looking content is motivated by wanting to respond to people that are commenting on her, such as cheet asking for her esp read and mastin scumreading her.

going to the gym now, will be back on-site in an hour or so to go through things in more detail.

[Gammagooey]

gamma sometimes it freaks me out how fast you respond when your name is mentioned.

kekeke

[Gammagooey]

How's he obv. town? I've smashed my head against the wall trying to figure this out and asking people about it, but I've never got a satisfactory answer.

iso me, control+f vezok. I'm probably the dude most responsible for pushing it yesterday.

i'm reading backwards through stuff now, but have a list of people I don't have at least minor town reads on right now in a not meaningful order. this is NOT a list of people I would vote instead of singer because I feel that she's more likely by far to be scum than most everyone else on here. also because the ones with high post counts I reaaally do need to get around to going over soon.

singer
cheet
aronis
marquis
oversoul
shadoweh
CDB

also actiondan because i do sort of have a minor town read on him but it could hilariously easily be wrong given how much he's posted

[Gammagooey]

basically everything tammy did yesterday is just a blur in my memory

like reaaaaally need to do some rereading there

[Gammagooey]

Gamma that looks an awful lot like selective meta to fit your agenda. Your most recent example is three years ago, and the only scum game (meta mafia) was a grand total of 35 posts.

I know you have more recent, up-to-date, and accurate meta, so it's making me even more uncomfortable that you even negate it with "Fuuuck meta."

hey singer

do you actually think i'm scum for this?
and what exactly is the agenda you think I'm following?

[Gammagooey]

thats not really answering my question

is my push on you "bad" enough in your eyes that it makes me more likely to be scum than town? I want your overall read on me, not a read on the individual post.

[Gammagooey]

i don't even have time to go over this game as much as I'd like, I might look at it in the future but I doubt I'll go into it substantially, especially when I'm pushing on you for the things you're doing in this game and brought up meta primarily to help people understand where I'm coming from and let people analyze my alignment from that.

thats not really answering my question

is my push on you "bad" enough in your eyes that it makes me more likely to be scum than town? I want your overall read on me, not a read on the individual post.

Please answer this question.

[Gammagooey]

like i have seriously made a single offhand reference to meta and you're just going on and on and on about it.

if you think I'm scum for the things I have done in this game then please say 'yes I think you're scum'.

[Gammagooey]

no, i understand the answer, I just want you to say, without commenting on meta simultaneously, whether you think I am scum or town.

[Gammagooey]

okay. i know you given me a very good idea of the answer, but I want a very specific "town" or "scum" answer without it being hidden behind wording like 'could be scum' or 'neutrally scummy' or 'scummier'. Changing your mind on my alignment later will not cause the earth to collapse into a black hole.

if you had to bet the ENTIRE GAME on my flip, right now, what would it be.

you'll see once you answer the question.

[Gammagooey]

okay, that's not the answer I expected from literally 45 minutes of trying to get that from you

i had better questions for if you said I was scum but for this let's start with

Why DID that take 45 minutes to get an actual answer from you?

[Gammagooey]

Also, better question

Is that the same answer you would have given right after making this post?

Gamma that looks an awful lot like selective meta to fit your agenda. Your most recent example is three years ago, and the only scum game (meta mafia) was a grand total of 35 posts.

I know you have more recent, up-to-date, and accurate meta, so it's making me even more uncomfortable that you even negate it with "Fuuuck meta."

[Gammagooey]

That, and you're calling me scum so I needed to see how wrong you're willing to be.

the first part i didn't bother quoting is shrugs, but I don't see how ^that's related to not answering me earlier.

[Gammagooey]

I think I made it pretty clearly I wanted an answer of either yes i think you're scum or no i don't but whatever

At the time that you made 2102, what made the meta post outweigh your earlier town read on me? Did you go back and re-evaluate your earlier town read on me and decide it wasn't up to snuff comparatively, was the meta post horrifically bad to you, what exactly?

[Gammagooey]

it was a lot less of a logic train and more of a tiny meta pushcart imo but shrug


I think it's weird that you didn't see it as potentially coming from town too and that you spent so much effort focusing on it when it was one post that I think is kind of clear I didn't put a ton of effort into going through and researching the games or spelling out differences between them. Can you give some quick thoughts on why you were townreading me before that?

Also

@Gamma...you definitely have more recent town meta on me, which was more the point, and I honestly haven't been scum (save my most recent newbie game) since the 2012 Scummies Invitational, which was also almost two years ago. I think your statement that you hate meta but are using it as a soft support/case/whathaveyou on me is really inconsistent and self-serving.

If you had any bit of recent meta on me, I wouldn't be arguing with you. The difference in those games are circumstantially different, particularly the scum game, which is the only one I really attacked anyway.

Why did you think the scum game was the only one that you really attacked when you said earlier that me having more recent town meta on you was more the point?

[Gammagooey]

@singer

I really thought you were town for your push on Bulb but this is a really shallow push, even for you who falls on ~reasons~ half the time.

Plus given that it seems like you're saying you were scumreading me until basically this conversation between us (and correct that if it's wrong), I'd think that you'd reconsider your earlier townread, since given the above it was pretty strong.

Particularly after I told you the specific reasons why I linked those games in particular (the one scum game I've ever been in with you, a large theme I remembered being in with you, and another large theme Nacho was in with you).

your explanation of your townread on me is pretty : /
what in particular did you agree with, and what about it made it a strong read instead of something I could maybe potentially fake as scum?

Said it earlier but it was mostly to give some background on my read to ff and nacho, was hoping they'd look at it and think something like 'oh that read makes sense from those games', though if they also decided to change their read on you based off of it I certainly wouldn't have been sad.

Recap of why I find you scummy is coming tomorrow since it's 2am now.

-----

To Titus and other people but seriously mostly Titus:

going to sleep soon

Please try to not drown out the conversation between singer and I with tons of posts, I think it's important for other people to go over it and evaluate singer. I'll recap my opinions on singer's alignment tomorrow night since this was mostly just poking at her and trying to get useful information to come out.

[Gammagooey]

Assuming your first sentence is a response to

Plus given that it seems like you're saying you were scumreading me until basically this conversation between us (and correct that if it's wrong), I'd think that you'd reconsider your earlier townread, since given the above it was pretty strong.

Particularly after I told you the specific reasons why I linked those games in particular (the one scum game I've ever been in with you, a large theme I remembered being in with you, and another large theme Nacho was in with you).

I'm not questioning what exactly made you scumread me, I think you've made it clear it was the meta post- I'm questioning why you didn't reconsider your scum read on me earlier, immediately or soon after I told you why I chose those games in particular.

I asked nacho for the specific part of empire's replace out that he thought was town, so once it gets posted I can talk about that.

questions if you said I was scum were mostly going to revolve around why you thought my meta post was particularly likely to come from scum over town and going into that, and what about it made it better than your read on me for bulba stuff earlier.

last comment on singer and I's conversation

I think it's fairly clear that I was trying to engage singer and not just call her scum by lateish into talking to her. I don't like that she continually brought up how town I should think she is despite keeping the questions fairly neutral and I think showing that I'm trying to get more information about what she's been thinking and why throughout the game.
It feels like she was trying to escape or distract from what would actually give insight into her alignment by adding in statements saying she's town/obvtown, especially given that it doesn't seem like she's putting effort into trying to actually convince me that any of them are true (aside from META META META which is probably true that she's playing fairly different from her old scum and town games regardless of her alignment), just sticking them in and hoping someone will agree with it or townread her for it.

[Gammagooey]

wait actually that wording is maybe still dumb

better version

I'm not questioning what exactly made you scumread me, I think you've made it clear it was the meta post- I'm questioning why you didn't reconsider your scum read on me ***earlier than just this conversation***, such as immediately or soon after I told you why I chose those games in particular.

[Gammagooey]

Oh @singer one more thing

What about my questioning of you and forcing you to say I'm either town or scum do you think I'd be unlikely to fake or do as scum?

also, have some vaguely thematic pictures and wubz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvOLB7Yzhs

[Gammagooey]

i have read a lot of things. so many things. PLEASE READ THIS I DON'T MAKE FUCKHUGE POSTS WITHOUT DAMN GOOD REASONS. I'll try to make it readable.

SINGER READ

Because of the sheer number of posts in this game there's still a lot left out. If you're town reading singer or her predecessors say what the posts are and the reasoning and I'll give you my opinion on that too.

Again, with this notion that everyone on this wagon is trying to quicklynch TTH.
It's baffling to me that you're acting like this is anything but a pressurewagon.

To be honest, it's starting to look like the resistance to it is scum motivated, because scum think/know that's the

right way

to react to a wagon like that one. For clarification of how I'm describing "that one": quick and with limited interactions before doing so.

This might've been addressed already, but according to my team (Regfan), there's no role that justifies visiting one of the more universally town-read people in the game that can be proven the next day, etc. with regards to TTH. (Mina) It looks more like he's trying to save himself another day, and based on how many actions we can assume scum have, could use those to lie.

These two posts read as pretty off together. I get that what singer is saying in the first post is that the 'correct' play for someone with a confirmable role is to back the hell off. But if she genuinely thinks TTH is scum, despite the idea of that being fine, I have a really hard time seeing her completely ignore the more obvious conclusion of "scum don't want to bus" when I think that's would have been an immediate thought if she thought TTH was going to flip scum.

I understand that singer stated that she just wanted a lynch - but the way she's thinking doesn't look town at all given that she doesn't seem to actually believe that TTH is likely to flip scum, and she really isn't connecting the future flip of someone she wants lynched to her other reads and opinions.
------------

That being said, I'm not going to fight for a lynch, as I hardly ever do on D1, seeing as I take the UT approach of WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! I've stated my preferences, and will vote as soon as I read the last ten pages, and then we'll go from there! Thanks for being patient with me guez! <3

Oh! Aaaaand. Verdict is still out on Titus. I

really did find inconsistencies

with her, but her latest post seems to explain it the best and pretty genuine, so my waffly read of her thus far is put in the do-not-touch-right-now pile.

@Titus...do you often rely on your inflated sense of authority to control the direction of the game? <snip>

Not gunna lie

, it vaguely reads as scum who's losing control and is trying to bully people into "the right way."

I think this type of unprompted self-justification is more likely to be coming from scum trying to reinforce that they're doing things in a town way.
-----------------

Oh my gosh! You're so fuckin right! How could I have possibly missed that on my phone! Wow must be scumzorz! Not because I haven't already projected exactly how I've felt about her! But because I'm so nice, let me quote it again for you!

You caught me! You were calling me scum so I denounced the scum meta in my head while proving you should realize how town I am in the thread. Oops!

I really dislike the biting sarcasm when people are attacking her, and pretty strongly feel that reactions of that sort are more likely to be coming from scum trying to mock other player's points against them and make their reasoning look as bad and as possible.
-----------------

Because you were being pretty cheeky about the whole meta thing and I don't really trust a cheeky Gamma.

That, and you're calling me scum so I needed to see how wrong you're willing to be.

Calling me cheeky when I am as either alignment is whatever, although I think calling my tiny meta post about her "cheeky" is really pushing it. But the bolded part is just completely irrelevant nonsense added to her other reason to make it look better. "How wrong I'm willing to be" has absolutely nothing to do with me trying to extract an actual read on myself from singer.

As I said earlier I also really dislike that singer was constantly bringing up other people's town reads on her and the tiny bit of meta I brought up with her when I think it's pretty clear that the purpose of my conversation with her from my perspective was to get information from her, not to just insist that she's scum.
------------------

Oh and after you guys inevitably realize that this slot is town, we're bane'ing Gamma. No exceptions (assuming my read-through of this thread or my teammates don't change my mind).

*sigh* Did you fuckers really bane Bulbazak over Gamma while I was one?

I don't actually have much to say about Zar and Empire's posts, the above looks a lot more like posturing than any actual conviction in reading me, especially the second quote after I had actually started posting a decent amount of content and soon after empire backs off on his read on me as well. Zar did seem like he was relying really heavily on teammate's opinions but I think that singer's posts are a lot more clearly indicative of a scum mindset.

[Gammagooey]

also, this is my reiterated opinion on espeonage.

it's easy to look at him and say 'sure he could be scum'. I think that's what a lot of people are doing. I think everyone knows that it's likely that given the quality of players in this game that at least one scum will get townread early on, but because there haven't been any flipped scum yet they're fine with just getting rid of someone they think hasn't done much without putting a lot of effort into actually reading him, especially given that he's already claimed and become a "low-risk" option for the lynch.

I think esp's mindset this game is way more likely to be coming from town than scum given his stances on Tammy and that he's fine with following TTH onto Marquis's wagon instead of coming up with his own wagoning reasons when even just going over TTH's reasons in more detail would make him more likely to be read as town. I'm maybe more confident in this than I should be, but I absolutely don't want his wagon to gradually turn into a town lynch from other players' apathy in reading him. I personally disagree with ActionDan's read and case on him (I think pretty much everything he brought up could easily be coming from town as well as scum), but I'd really like for people to read through esp's iso and give some more detailed opinions of him theirselves.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma, I actually think your points sound decent, but I still think she's town for other reasons. It might be a while before I make a full defence of her, but I like regfan's continued input on the game despite having the excuse of Empire replacing out to stop following it. And reading her play recently has given me the impression of town, along with her decision to vote for ActionDan at the time that she did. Ffery-team's townread is also a factor for me, but I will re-read her at some point.

every time people use effort to say someone's town in team mafia i die a little on the inside.
what post #s gave you the town impression?

[Gammagooey]

Post 1749 shows where I initially respected the direction you were taking with Bulb, but I never commented on it fully during my catchup. I'll do that on a computer tomorrow.

get around to doing this sometime today please btw singer

[Gammagooey]

I'm not getting lynched today, Gamma, and I'm really fucking annoyed you're still pressing this. Does it tell you anything that not even my bigger supporters of singerscum have acknowledged your concerns about me?

That being said, gun to your head, who're my scum buddies?

Not really considering that this is really the first time I've actually gone into a bunch of detail on why I think you're scum and that was around 3 hours ago.

atm i'd probably go cheetory+shadoweh+actiondan.

[Gammagooey]

Two days until lynch 1 deadline. If you're going to make a push on singer now is the time Gamma. I would prefer a singer lynch atm.

what do you think I'm doing? I just made literally the biggest post I've made all game about why I think singer is scum.

Esp can you give a few more reads? cheet & shadow & CDB are all people I'd like to hear more opinions about.

[Gammagooey]

ffery I still think dismissing singer being uncomfortable and the way she's attacking people's reads on her with what seems like tons of sarcasm and mockery instead of 'hey that's wrong this is why' is really just wrong. I'll read over singer's scum game tomorrow sometime like you asked since its 2am after board games all day today. If you want to look up and find somewhere that singer's used this much belittling on people's reads on her then I'll probably give you a bit more credit on that but I think pretty strongly that the mocking sarcastic defense here is more likely to be coming from scum from the vast majority of people, and I have a hard time thinking singer in particular would be different. (especially among the other things I've mentioned already and her real hesitance to put out strong reads on people that could be wrong later)

I also think that singer's explanation of why she thought I was town for my bulba reasoning was really mediocre and her switch of opinion on me after my tiny meta post about her and then using as a shield over and over again instead of talking about her other reads and thoughts is really bad.

[Gammagooey]

ffery I still think dismissing singer being uncomfortable and the way she's attacking people's reads on her with what seems like tons of sarcasm and mockery instead of 'hey that's wrong this is why' is really just wrong.

Like to expand on this a little

I do this as scum sometimes too, as scum you pretty much always just want to make the case and the player's logic/general correctness look as shitty as possible, so you make sarcastic posts that imply that the person's logic is dumb and not worth looking at.

cmonnnnn Vi, im sure you have an amazing response on how informative your reads on me and 2 and sajin are and how theyre totally different from my unworthy opinions

or how your read on me is much more well explained and convincing than mine on Saijin

or maybe even a post with more fleshed out opinions that you just didnt feel like sharing yet because of some further unsaid *reasons*

or just maaaaaybe you dont have anything to share right now- to you, right now everything is right where it belongs.

[Gammagooey]

hey gamma we're on the same wagon now isn't that NEAT

i care too much and you care too little

we can't be a posse right now ut

i just can't handle that in my life right now okay

[Gammagooey]

like ffery

if you or nacho want to bring up the individual posts that you think stand out as HEY LOOK SINGERS TOWN then please let me delve into that shit and think about it

but right now really all i'm seeing is you mentioning the replaceout and empire being good at the game. and empire is good at the game as either alignment and I think that the thought process of "empire wouldn't sacrifice being probably-town-from-tokens in his other game because he hates scum soooo much even though it would massively boost his team's chance of winning" is incorrect.
Also that his going out reads were fakeable by scum and that he would have left for the same reasons and get out of the game if he was that irritated/frustrated/soul-sucked/whatever as either alignment.

[Gammagooey]

That's some words there ffery

I disagree with a pretty decent chunk of the things you're bringing up there being townsfolk, notably that empire wouldn't be abrasive towards Martin and that he wouldn't go against some consensus things the way he did as scum (this is probably phrased slightly poorly but im phoneposting)

BUT there's enough there in the cheet and dv read explanations and the lack of consulting tone and some other explanations that I'll lay off singer for now.

I can do an actiondan lynch and be fine with it but personally I think I'd rather kill cdb here. I can probably go into a little more detail later tonight but its pretty much going to be an attempt to explain gut feelings. ffery if you strongly think AD is scum here I can probably just jump on and we can get that flipped.

UNVOTE:

P-edit: I do kind of want to hold off for a tiny bit longer until AD has a chance to post again but you can consider my vote on AD for when we're actually getting a lynch through in the next day or two.

[Gammagooey]

^ I get what you're saying given the pace of the game but he posted a pretty decent amount early yesterday and I think he's still v. likely to be town here.

how do ya feel about cdb

and yes i said i'd go over stuff on him but i'm sick :<

[Gammagooey]

ffery I don't really see a big reason to think TSO will flip scum but if you're really confident in it I can hop on anyway. Did go through his iso and I still do like his posting around march 31st but it's not impossible to be coming from scum looking back at it.

[Gammagooey]

gamma, talk to me some more about the lack of empathy thing please.

oh also i meant to do this but didn't remember exactly what you're talking about here?

[Gammagooey]

gamma, talk to me some more about the lack of empathy thing please.

oh also i meant to do this but didn't remember exactly what you're talking about here?

Mostly i just wanted to know your thoughts about that discussion.

no seriously my memory is actually a pile of garbage on top of another larger pile of garbage

what discussion

[Gammagooey]

1317 - CDB's point about lack of empire's empathy.

Nacho feels like scum-CDB would be unlikely to take that line of argument with Empire. Scum-CDB isn't usually emotionally manipulative, so we feel like that's genuine. he wouldn't respond so harshly to Empire's comment if he were scum, because he's well aware that he often looks less engaged as scum than as town.

In other words, we think it's really unlikely that scum-CDB would call Empire scum for lack of empathy and continue to push it the way he did.

Took another look

My immediate reaction was 'this looks like scum bussing another scum really well' but that's not really substantiated, just a gut feeling based a lot on how I personally think and play as scum- when i do bus, trying to bring out actually exactly why/what makes my scumbuddies play different from how I see them as town and slamming into anything that I think just doesn't make sense from their mindset so it'll look like (and for the most part actually be) legitimate scumhunting.

In fairness though, it does look at least a bit town given that it looks fairly measured and doesn't seem like he's overemphasizing how ridiculous Empire's being, instead just explaining why he thinks that doesn't really make sense from him.

Reading the post mainly just made me want to lynch singer more but your points are still good enough on empire for me to not worry about it for now.

---------
gonna do this since his popping in and mentioning regfan's reads while not trying to push AD's lynch or explain why he isn't putting stock into regfan's AD read does seem actually pretty bad.

VOTE: TSO

[Gammagooey]

is this the lynch everyone can believe in

have we found the mythical fountain of scum

[Gammagooey]

is this the lynch everyone can believe in

have we found the mythical fountain of scum

do you think so?

i actually do i think

[Gammagooey]

You were happy to sign over your agency as a player when we were pushing an AD lynch despite having had nothing whatsoever to say about him while you were active earlier.

Even the stuff you're posting, like this, can equally be attributed to, let's say, singer - except I have a fucking excuse for doing this, while singer most certainly does not. Meanwhile, back at Gestalt HQ, Nacho is townreading singer!

so ffery went into some pretty good details why they think empire/singer is town

do you think singer is scum? if so why is actiondan a stronger read for you?

[Gammagooey]

theyyyy're kinda similar i guess

in Baker it felt more like extreme paranoia and a little tunnelvision than the wariness and suspicion I'm seeing with you and Tammy here, but in Baker it was much much later in the game.

[Gammagooey]

how do you feel about actiondan and tso and singer?

[Gammagooey]

for me its less of not wanting to lynch the bane target and more of bulba's play seeming kind of relentlessly...sure of himself or something similar to that and thinking maybe it could be coming from town. there were others that wanted to bane and lynch two different people which kind of makes sense for information, but I viewed the bane as something more likely to be negative (with an okayish chance of targeting the bane on scum additionally) but needed to happen to get the boon.

tso for lynch 2015

[Gammagooey]

hey dan you're the only one left on espeonage's wagon

how does that make you

feel

?

[Gammagooey]

Yes, you've summed the situation up quite accurately - I was one day returned from V/LA at that stage, a conftown player with a good team asked for a sheep. I sheeped. I then posted content from the one member of my team who is reading this game. I did not take that into consideration with my reads because I haven't actually considered my reads yet - I was planning to wait for Major N1 to try to somewhat catch up.

I know I'm popular, everyone, so you don't immediately have to scurry to the ActionDan wagon. I won't ridicule you in public for walking in an orderly fashion, I'll simply berate you heavily in private.

This really doesn't look like you were actually just sheeping without having an opinion of your own on actiondan btw

[Gammagooey]

TSO I think you should claim soon.

Mostly because I want your blood at this point and think you're actually a scum lynch that can finally happen but I still feel that I should give a warning that I will totally endorse anyone and everyone hammering you even without a claim given how bad I think a lot of people are at quickly processing claims (in relation to alignments) correctly and that you just don't really have any strong towntells that are going to be making anyone slow down on this.

[Gammagooey]

mmmm the blood

it's so beautiful

[Gammagooey]

blood>claims

also there are much better reasons to be paranoid of cdb than the hammer

[Gammagooey]

Do want to apologise, though

boo

unpredictability is actually one of the best traits for the town in general to have

let scum try play around everyone's expectations and then burn their assumptions to the ground

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Aronis

There is an enormous pile of people I would murder at this point though, especially if pointed at by ffery

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Vezok

TSO was willing to make sure no PR got the boon to stop Vezok from getting it. I want to know why.

this is retarded

like actually straight up face-rubbing-against-the-wall-as-you-walk-by retarded

[Gammagooey]

he thought vezok was scum
~~the end~~

[Gammagooey]

from his iso he didn't get where vezok's thought processes were coming from.

the implication that he had more information than anyone else about vezok when he's not only a flipped VT but had that opinion on minor day 1 is a mansion-sized pile of awful.

[Gammagooey]

okay then

why do

you

think vezok is scum?

[Gammagooey]

If you think tso had anything particularly poignant or relevant about vezok that makes you think he's scum post it.

Posting utterly useless and informationless mentions of past reads of other players yeah I'd be fine with you never doing that again.

[Gammagooey]

Also guys you know what's cool?

Voting people you think are likely to be scum

Like we have 4ish days until deadline, skipping the day-long "dick around without voting anybody" part of today and just going over everything while having an okayish changeable vote down seems like a much better plan.

[Gammagooey]

Why Aronis?

don't like the actiondan and espeonage votes and the general lack of things coming from him

[Gammagooey]

I'll just say TSO was not blade. I detected him. I was trying to pass that message to GiF. *sigh* I'm not sure if it matters right now, but it might later.

No, it won't.

Unless your role states otherwise, your sign was randomly chosen at game start.

There might be a few roles aside from Alquin that aren't randomized but a VT isn't going to be one of them.

[Gammagooey]

I am a walking deadwoman.
I am town.
I will be dieing, and save for Tales level of incompetency, not by lynch.
This deathdate is going to be sooner rather than later.
Suspicion on me, therefore, just passes entirely over my head. I don't have reason to care. They'll be proven wrong without me needing to lift a finger.

stop this. you've said it so many damn times and you saying it is not actually a towntell in any way.

What specific posts of DV's do you think are scummy?

[Gammagooey]

There is an enormous pile of people I would murder at this point though, especially if pointed at by ffery

who is in the pile?

arnois, CDB, marquis/formerfish, deas, shadoweh, cheetory.

deas is kind of more thrown in than the rest just because i agree with whoever said his recent reads were kind of just a pile of lurkers+bulba and is probably more of 'yeah he could be scum?' than an actually confident read.

@Deas- I thought his coming in with just kagami's reads list for content after coming back and attacking actiondan in the way he did was him not genuinely believing that actiondan was scum and that he was just using the sheeping reason to mask that.

[Gammagooey]

gamma why is cheetory in your scumpile?

didn't like how he was responding to espeonage while voting him earlier, also don't really like that he was on pretty much all the big wagons and if I remember correctly saying pretty much all of them were scummy (as opposed to just sheeping to get a lynch like UT) at one point or another

[Gammagooey]

Also, last I checked Gamma's scumreading me because there was a point in the game where I was sitting on an Espeonage vote without feeling strongly about it or any other scumread I currently had. Apparently it's scummy to not unvote and posture about how unsure I am. Golly gee wiz.

cognitive dissonance is a thing

maybe not the only thing that's possible to have happened there

but it is a thing that scums do

Didn't call AD scummy and was blatantly sheeping ffery.
Said that TSO had little things that were scummy but I was more or less sheeping there.
I'll stand by any time I was voting Espeonage.
Not really sure what your point is otherwise.

I prob misremembered your opinion on AD then

and I know 3 of them were lurkfucks for at least a chunk of the game and some definition of lurkfuck but I kind of expect that out of the 4 of [singer/AD/esp/TSO] most people would find at least one worth actually defending.
It's not really a "fair" suspicion but it's what it is.

[Gammagooey]

cognitive dissonance is a thing

Cognitive dissonance?
So wait, you think I forgot that I was voting for Espe? Do you think I'm that fucking bad at this game?

no, i think your tone in regards to esp while you were voting him indicated that you thought he was pretty likely to be town and yeah that is explain-ished by you not having any strong reads on other people to vote instead at the time but also alternatively by you just being scum and voting someone you knew was town

defending singer now isn't really the same as defending her when she was actually being run up since there's a scum motivation to push through a lynch there assuming that she is town.

[Gammagooey]

Not like you've ever really tried to engage me beyond just blankly calling me scummy.
Why do you apparently suck so bad at reading me this game when I'm pretty much playing exactly the same game as I was in DoA D1?

also i never actually had an opinion on you in DoA until you were dead given that there were actually substantially scummy people in a 27-player game I was trying to lynch instead so...*shrug*

[Gammagooey]

no, i think your tone in regards to esp while you were voting him indicated that you thought he was pretty likely to be town and yeah that is explain-ished by you not having any strong reads on other people to vote instead at the time but also alternatively by you just being scum and voting someone you knew was town

Where did it seem like I thought he was likely to be town?

brought it up earlier-

hey cheet, why are you still voting esp? the tone of your posts seems to suggest that you're at least not particularly confident in him faking the obtuseness as scum.

defending singer now isn't really the same as defending her when she was actually being run up since there's a scum motivation to push through a lynch there assuming that she is town.

Are you joking me? She was way more likely to be lynched this second time around than she was the first time.

*disagreement* she has like two votes on her now compared to the six or seven or so earlier.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah there's no support for a TSO town in Aronis's ISO. He just says he won't vote TSO after pushing Dan because deadline. Not much difference between Dan and TSO as neither were around (although TSO was vla).

UT defending Aronis makes me feel better about an Aronis wagon.

Voting someone because another unflipped scumread of yours doesn't want them lynched is pretttty awful titus.

[Gammagooey]

Also to actually state my opinion on titus since she might be the biggest wagon at this point

I would probably lynch her too but I have basically negative confidence in my ability to read her given that I can't understand a ton of her thought processes no matter what alignment I've previously seen her as.

[Gammagooey]

"Lynchbait" is not a towntell with 15 town players to 4 scum.

Also a single scumread defending someone doesn't make them not lynchbait, but mostly that first thing.

[Gammagooey]

take a look at who i'm voting and guess.

why are you voting aronis over UT?

[Gammagooey]

Do you think Aronis is more likely to be scum than UT? (also why)

[Gammagooey]

Do you think Aronis is more likely to be scum than UT? (also why)

Not necessarily but they are both scumreads. UT is basically playing from his Uncouth playbook now that I called him out for being friendly and doing jackshit.

is there an allergy to answering comparative questions that I didn't know about

yes or no please, if you personally had to lynch one of them and not the other which would it be.

[Gammagooey]

@Oversoul, why is Aronis a "vanity wagon"? It's (I think) Ffery endorsed and the second largest wagon.

And ffery endorsed wagons always end great, right?

Would you like to add anything to today that isn't bitching about the confirmed town's opinion of you?

[Gammagooey]

And if you need any more insights, doesn't hesitate to ask!

why do you think singer and bulba are scum?

[Gammagooey]

Well my Bulba read hasn't really changed at all because he hasn't posted that much recently. [and if he did, titus probably drowned it out]

As far as singer goes, I had thought she was ungenuine earlier and making up reads, but recently my read on her hasn't been that solid.

I don't think you ever went into what you were scumreading bulba for, anything earlier in the game?

VOTE: CDB

[Gammagooey]

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

siiiigh

why

[Gammagooey]

i am so tired of taking this game seriously so i am taking this opportunity to mispell everything i can for the next 24 hours

esp dat seams fiyn

wat aboot cdb tho

i jst warnt to lynnch cdb

[Gammagooey]

lez no lynnch ooo tee

and no lynnch esp

and no lynnch singar

and maibe no lynnch aronis

lez lynch see-debee oor tietous

[Gammagooey]

We're still processing stuff, but are leaning toward CDB.

god I wish I had a vote.

YEY

LEZ DEW IT

[Gammagooey]

guiz

u no tht thng earl-ee-err aboot console-ting tht fairy sed

seedeebee feals lik heas doin tht

nnd he doasnt hav ne stronk townage thngs.

[Gammagooey]

hving cohereant opinyons is harrd

[Gammagooey]

singar ur knd of ovrusin cheaky

also u shud vot cdb

[Gammagooey]

l8r is 4 casuals

he alrdy snck oot of suspician wth "dnt lyanch me frst" errleeerr

nnd nw he stll loks lik scm

[Gammagooey]

words

I think your espeonage vote is bad and that you should feel bad about it.

mostly because I think his posts show dem town motivations which I already went over forever ago.

who else do you think is scum?

[Gammagooey]

expecting titus to conform to any sort of sane expectations seems like a general waste of time

Cheet I don't want you to take this as "don't vote titus" because I will hammer Titus if handed the opportunity barring a pretty damn decent claim

but how do you feel about CDB and how he's posted a lot about the various wagons looking town but never actually hard-pushing on any of them? (with the kind-of exception of AD, who he is now sharing the wagon on esp with)

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma, That fucking hurts. Maybe you should try looking from a different perspective.

don't get me wrong, i like you as a person

but as a mafia player you seem to have very little coherent focus while playing and it makes you incredibly unreadable to me.

[Gammagooey]

Vote: Gammagooey

I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsoSVdJikDw

i'll have things to say at CDB during lunch.

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!

what was town? specifically.

[Gammagooey]

actually @cdb
are you going to be around in an hour or sometime in the next few hours after that? i don't really want to bug you about a bunch of things then if it's going to take you half the remaining deadline to talk about it.

[Gammagooey]

I'll try to do a

condensed

version now then. ha that didn't happen disregard that

There's two things that I can explain fairly decently about why I really dislike your play here.

The first is just that you haven't done anything that I view as amazingly town that I've seen you do in previous games. I townread your slot in Reckoning 3 for basically the entire game on the basis of one of your early posts seeming really really town motivated. The absence of that isn't really a reason to lynch you on its own but seeing you with a hundred something posts and nothing that to me says "oh actually that's pretty town" DOES make me want to murder you.

The second is that you've put basically no effort into actually PUSHING your reads here. The worst of it is pretty much right now with Titus and Espeonage. You've had Titus as strong-town for the entire game but gone into all this detail about so many other players and given basically nothing about why you actually think Titus is town. You're also voting Esp but haven't bothered going into any detail whatsoever about why you think he should be lynched over anyone else.

There's less than 2 days until deadline, the wagons are you and a strong town read of yours (and to a lesser extent another strong town read of yours if you want to call 2 votes a wagon), and you've spent your posts explaining null reads instead of actively trying to affect the course of the game. You've put up a list of people you'd rather lynch and then done nothing to actually get people to vote them instead of Titus.

Your scummiest reads are a pile of lurkers and a dude who's claimed to be able to confirm himself tomorrow, which would be fine imo if you were ACTUALLY pushing him and actively trying to convince people that his posts make more sense from a scum-saving-himself mindset than town, but you're voting someone who you've just stated you think is generally unreadable (albeit maybe intentionally so) and frustrating you instead.

You complained about people trying to lynch you earlier today as the first lynch when you were at a meet when you weren't capable of affecting the game. And the you came back and continued to do nothing to meaningfully affect the game, instead pointing to some people and saying that they should be lynched instead of the current wagons. I think you're a very competent player and that you can tell just like I can that the main wagons aren't going to change at this point without someone going into detail on why they think Titus is town or a specific other player is likely to be scum, and I think it's clear given the deadline and what you've done so far that you'd rather not do that.

so yeah no this isn't about 999. this is about you seeing where this game is going and you strongly disagreeing with that, but not putting in the focused effort to actually change it.

[Gammagooey]

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!

This reaction to an abysmal reads list is nothing short of astonishing.

I like the reads list you hate.

In a survey of 100 scummers

"What type of content can scum make well?"
is there...A READLIST?

*bing*

[Gammagooey]

other answers on the board were

votecount analysis
emotional responses
bussing a partner
and tunnelling

[Gammagooey]

calling me town for 3693 is dumb

a single sentence about titus being town for making herself accessible is going to change exactly zero people's minds about her and we're both pretty aware of that.

That much I appreciate and acknowledge with regards to my scumreads, though I'm pretty happy with my approach overall.

You shouldn't be. You or a strong town read of yours is going to get lynched without a substantial shift in the game and you're not doing things that can make that happen.

[Gammagooey]

While we're talking about DV

This

Vote: Gammagooey

I guess.

is about a thousand times townier than CDB's "You're town and pushing me".

Also @TTH
IMO Genitals have no bearing on the dudeness of another person

[Gammagooey]

before I get back to work

calling me town for 3693 is dumb

you're dumb

no i'm pretty serious

there are plenty of posts here that I doubt I could or would fake as scum but poking a scumread to see if they'll be around in an hour isn't one of them.

[Gammagooey]

in fact

the ACTUAL reason for me being town you have seen in 999 cdb
and it is me constantly, relentlessly, UNCEASINGLY giving a shit about the game and what's happening in it.

calling me town for asking you if you'll be around in an hour when I think I'm pretty clearly town to you for completely different reasons is an easy way for you to dismiss me as town to everyone else while you continue posting at people to defend yourself.

[Gammagooey]

there are plenty of posts here that I doubt I could or would fake as scum but poking a scumread to see if they'll be around in an hour isn't one of them.

Wanna fight about it?

yes

[Gammagooey]

and since you're going into your own play a bunch let me give you a little bit about my own

Unless there's a legitimate misunderstanding of what someone's doing, I think most defenses are basically worthless. They generally give one possibility or explanation of a person's motives and motivations, the quality of which is usually much more based on the player's skill than the player's alignment. The best you're going to get from explaining your play to me is going to be "yeah that could be true."

If you want me to actually try to direct your wagon elsewhere, you're going to at least give some pretty damn detailed reasons for why you think someone else is scum or why titus is town, and probably both. What you're doing now isn't good enough.

[Gammagooey]

I can accept that, and I've already said that I can totally see you parking this vote on me and not listening to my defence as you did a few times at the Reckoning, so I'm not surprised. But me responding to you is as much for everyone else's benefit as it is yours. I'm confident that, the more that I talk and show what I've been thinking in this game, the more people in general will understand that I am town.

There are obviously similarities but I'm really not the same player in real-life as I am on the forum. I am listening, and on here I think it's a lot more likely that people say something that actually shows town motivations when they get close to a lynch. I just don't think you've done that.

[Gammagooey]

i think i've probably

joined

enough games with you

you just happened to replace out of all of them

[Gammagooey]

Also calling me distracted and saying I'm not listening properly scores a solid boring redirection out of ten

if you want the titus wagon dismantled and someone else to be your counterwagon its about time to do it by any means necessary. And if it is just playing around Alquin thats a boring excuse for not going after someone who could be scum making the same implications anyway.

You saying you haven't had time to sink your teeth into a scumread because of time is a reasonableish excuse but that's all it is. When you have something you're willing to actually try to CONVINCE people of instead of just pointing at then come back and we'll talk.

[Gammagooey]

I don't see why you'd think that would change my mind. You've done things, they're just not impactful to the gamestate in anyway. Like this is a post you made earlier.

I don't agree with your read on a player who has

the third-most posts in the game while still making

very little impact on anything at all, as well as the things that are pinging me that I've mentioned.

and she's [titus] been protecting Victor in one of her "town block"

this is so enormously baseless.

[Gammagooey]

SINGER

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!

what was town? specifically.

[Gammagooey]

ffery already said she doesn't want to vote cdb anymore so

no

i want an actual read on cdb from you
based on the things he has done in this game.

[Gammagooey]

i want an actual read on cdb from you
based on the things he has done in this game.

i want to be very clear

things that titus has done in this game
are not things that cdb has done or even reverse-done in this game

please do not confuse them

[Gammagooey]

i want an actual read on cdb from you
based on the things he has done in this game.

i want to be very clear

things that titus has done in this game
are not things that cdb has done or even reverse-done in this game

please do not confuse them

I'm clearly not going to get anything useful from you about the specific posts cdb has made but I just wanted to point this out again

[Gammagooey]

If we have a completely irrelevant discussion of the roles on the first page of the game on page ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY ONE I will try my very hardest to get everyone involved dead by the end of day two.

[Gammagooey]

I want alternatives to the current wagons.

cough do it yourself

[Gammagooey]

i just think it's kinda dumb to expect other people to offer up alternatives to the current wagons when you're the one who doesn't believe in any of them.

i'll lay off for a bit though

[Gammagooey]

PEDIT: I didn't say I expected anything, Gamma. I said I was hoping. Take off the fucking scumglasses.

nope, separated by a semi-colon, doesn't count >:3
dumb also =/= scum if you wanna be semantic about things

[Gammagooey]

i know exactly what you meant, saying your expectations which were hopes i guess are dumb isn't the same as saying they're scummy

you don't have to respond to every little needle i poke you with either, if I want you to answer a question or something I'll try to make it pretty clear.

[Gammagooey]

i'm about to post one more thing generally at you if you want to stick around for 10 minutes

if you don't then i'm a little sorry for being a jerk and posting it right after you went to bed but I wanted to wait until after you did your fabled vote post

[Gammagooey]

CDB you probably are going to want to respond to this even though I don't personally mind if you don't.

These are two posts from you in Reckoning 3 before you replaced out.

In post 355, ActionDan wrote:
Since when does "have not developed strong reads on" equate to "want to vote" cdb?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? You are more than capable of understanding me when I say that all my strong reads are of the town variety, and that I therefore want to vote for someone not among those reads (we've explained why mollie is an exception for now).

You should also know (or at least not be surprised to be receiving confirmation of previous patterns) that I always aim to be doing the most useful possible with my vote, particularly on Day 1, so I'm not just going to sit around without my vote on anybody until a scumread magically comes along. I put my vote where I think it is most likely to help me develop reads on people. In this case, for example, your bizarre attack on me is making me think scum more than it is town.

It's the Gamma part that I find confusing and exasperating. I see nothing particularly worrying there and

would be very surprised if you found any enthusiasm elsewhere that would cause the vote to have any real impact. Meanwhile, the Dan wagon is a bit light to sustain people hopping off for side projects.

Granted, these are early game and this game had more of a 50-page pregame to deal with. But do you know how long your vote has been doing nothing sitting on espeonage?

Fifteen days. Yes I'm very aware you were V/LA for just about exactly half of them.

I completely believe you and understand that you've been busy. But the CDB you described in Reckoning 3 doesn't exist here. The desire to actually IMPACT the game and vote to squeeze information and alignments from other people is nowhere to be seen. The CDB that takes note of what wagons are actually doing something and which ones are going nowhere and should be getting up and doing anything else is not what I see here.

[Gammagooey]

actually wait I'm retarded

you voted ActionDan and TSO before going back to the espeonage vote

I still don't like that you've done so little to try to actually further the game but a that chunk of the above isn't correct or fair.

[Gammagooey]

If it gets to the point where I'm going to have to be hammered (and it still frakking shouldn't, btw, there are enough people and enough time to save me), please give me a chance to out the sign of my target. I think it's worth doing if I'm not going to survive.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

I correctly Detected a player whom I thought might be scum and might perform a kill during the Minor Night. I actually would have been tempted to go in harder on this player Today but I was still hoping to have the wagon on me fall away without having to claim so that I could be more sure of getting the investigation away.

I really, really, really dislike role-based excuses for how people are playing. Because they come a lot more often from scum than town. I also think given your stated reads and how weak all your scumreads are that this really is just an excuse for playing in a way that people are finding scummy, that most of your scumreads are basically borderline-interchangable lurkers, and that if you honestly think that someone outside of that is LIKELY enough to be scum that you can make a better case than your previous one throwing darts at ActionDan, you should be making that case.

Also, implying you're worth protection right now to me sounds basically deluded.

[Gammagooey]

question to singer and Deas.

What makes you think his role is more likely to be aligned with town than scum?

[Gammagooey]

Hmm Tracker, detected someone likely to be killed ..sounds like scum tracker.

did you write this incorrectly or is this what you actually believe?

if the 2nd, please reread CDB's claim and come back.

[Gammagooey]

CDB remind me why you're townreading singer

[Gammagooey]

fair

i think there are probably about 2 scum in the pile of people that everyone's written off as not lynchable today. Who do you think is scum that has basically little or no chance of being lynched today?

[Gammagooey]

can you like

think about the conclusions you're making

before immediately posting about them

[Gammagooey]

hint: no

[Gammagooey]

UNVOTE:

[Gammagooey]

Also not sure what this question is trying to accomplish but I'll just run with it

reaaaading you maybe you clown

[Gammagooey]

My takeaway from Gamma's play is to try and push as many people as possible to get as much power role information and understanding of who finds what scummy for later lynches.

how many people do you think i've been pushing? because I've pushed REAL hard but not on very many people.

[Gammagooey]

I might be about to change my vote and sort of push someone else to be fair but I don't really see how that conclusion makes sense.

[Gammagooey]

i discounted it when he didn't actually show up and do anything except bluster about actiondan and post a team member's reads list and his responses to ffery seemed pretty bad.

i get why you'd scumread me for that but my singer and cdb pushes are not similar things.

[Gammagooey]

sigh

i'd be voting one of shadoweh and mastin right now if i didn't have so many opinions on why singer looks like scum

i'm going to go eat lunch and maybe do something when i come back

[Gammagooey]

i think oversoul's looked decently town

VOTE: mastin2 this is the best thing i can come up with after rereading things and people for like 90 minutes

[Gammagooey]

i'll be around AT deadline and not much sooner to hammer if necessary.

I don't really want to lynch CDB after his posts thinking he got hammered, I don't think it's likely he faked it but much more importantly if he had actually posted those types of last minute THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I FEEL reads like 5 days ago I would have basically never been on this wagon. They look actually legitimately genuinely town.

CDB, ActionDan isn't happening. There is no way he is getting lynched over you today. Either join me on mastin or hop on one of your other non-lurkfuck scumreads with some details on why you'd rather lynch them.