13p Normal [TM2015]

[Egg]

Vote Sleepykrew

Also I'm V/LA. Don't know until when. Shooting for about April 6th.

[Egg]

Jason was actually my second choice, but not for the OMGUS. I thought he felt nervous, but I wrote it off as team mafia hype.

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, you are being intentionally dense. You've been around long enough to know what people's issue is with posting without voting to start a game whether you agree with it or not.

[Egg]

Unvote

Sleepykrew, do you have any reads yet?

[Egg]

Mala, what is your read on Thor?

Not sure I like STD's... would you call it pre-OMGUS? He basically implies that if Thor votes him soon, he's scum.

The high percentage of dice talk in Fenchurch's posts feels weird too.

[Egg]

[quote="In post 108, jasonT1981"][/quote]

^I was just gonna ask that. Cheet said something similar in my team's PT, but it sounds gut based.

Also, it looks like this game is moving at a slow enough pace for the effects of my V/LA to be pretty minimal here. So there's that.

[Egg]

What the hell happened to that quote lol

[Egg]

Vote sthar

I feel like he's taking easy stances and asking obvious questions rather than telling us what he truly believes.

Examples:
-Delta lurking
-caling Thor vs STD town vs town
-asking fenchurch for a new reads list
-the boon question

It's not that he's being "useless" or anything. It just has a blend in and contribute for the sake of it vibe to me.

[Egg]

Guys, I know what Boon is getting at with Pie listing him as possible town but I'll let him answer.

Jason, I think you are misrepping Pie's stance. But, again, I'll let him answer first.

STD, I don't have a strong enough read on you or Thor yet to be able to say I definitely agree or disagree, but sthar's writing it off as town vs town just looks like scum trying to show they have reads. It's very easy to take an arguement like that and call it town vs town. Specifically, it stands out because he didn't comment on any specific words you guys posted or anything. He didn't tell us what you said that looks town to him. He just kind of looks at two guys arguing and says they are town. It's just too easy a stance to take without explaining.

I took sthar's comment towards Fenchurch as wanting an update from his previous reads list. Prodding for more, whether he meant what I thought he meant orwhat you thought he meant, is easy to do though.

[Egg]

STD, when you say "fair", does it mean you agree or you just understand where I am coming from? Because I notice you didn't use your vote to help me start a wagon on sthar.

Jason, I meant this:

This is what confuses me, if I am coming off as Logical and considering all circumstances, shouldn't that show as town not scum? Scum don't need to apply logic or consider possibilities, they know who is scum. It is town that needs to be considerate of all options and be logical about them? 

[Egg]

Boon, my team wants to know some of your reads. They feel you are playing to your scum meta and they don't like that you defended yourself with self meta.

Sthar, read my posts to STD and you should see why I feel the way that I do. Your response about Delta and Fenchurch kind of misses my point. Easy stances weren't all I mentioned. I thought some of your questions had obvious answers (Boon) and you were trying to appear to contribute rather than find scum (the Fenchurch and Delta things). I'm not sure how you took that to mean every one of those bullet points fell under the "easy stances" part of that. But to answer your question, no, I don't find Boon's answer to that question useful at all unless I'm somehow wrong about what he meant.

Boon, I kind of agree with my team here. You seem to overdo the "I'm a VI" thing as scum and just kind of roll with it as town. Here, I feel like you are overdoing it.

Mala, why are you concerned with being connected to Micc?

[Egg]

Interesting thing to pick out if that's the case. The only other thing you've said about Fenchurch's reads is this:

I'd be interested in this "scumread" you got on me actually. If you could flesh that out it would be grand.

Typically, I'd ask about more than someone's read on myself if I'm concerned with the development of their reads.

[Egg]

Ok

[Egg]

Intriguing.

[Egg]

I already answered about the Fenchurch and Delta things. They read as trying to appear to contribute rather than truly find scum.

On Boon, he was getting at the fact that Pie knows he is mislynch bait as town so if Pie was town, why list Boon as a town read? It felt obvious to me, but then again that could be because I've played three recent games with Boon so meh. Still, he admitted that was a weak read and you (you're not the only one) are acting like he said Pie was confirmed town for that.

I'd be absolutely shocked if Jason was dumb enough as scum to push you as a lurker vote with a scumbuddy who is a worse offender of the same thing. That's just asking to be connected later on. Even if you haven't played with Jason, surely you realize this is a strong playerlist.

I'll let Fenchurch answer instead of discussing that reads list further.

Ok, so why is Thor vs STD town vs town then?

[Egg]

Unvote

Fenchurch, Sthar wanted you to "expound" or something.

Boon, Cheet and Tier said your stuff about telling everyone you hammer your strongest town read and stuff is an attempt to look like VI. Not sure why you think I said they know more than I do about your meta? I'm relaying what they said and I asked you what they wanted me to ask you.

Also, I've skimmed since my last post, not properly read. Stuff just came up. See my sig.

[Egg]

Boon, Cheet says you self meta'd quite a bit in your scum game with him. The Burning?

[Egg]

Sounds like my fiance should be back to work tomorrow. If that's the case, I'll make this my top online priority for tomorrow

[Egg]

Boon, I realize this is from 4 RL days ago, but Cheet wanted to know why you wouldn't repeat something that worked in The Burning?

Sthar, I'm satisfied with your response to my case as long as I see in this read that you followed up on everything you brought up in your original post.

Based on Page 10, I think at least one of Boon/Jason is scum. I don't like how Boon came in all "lol I'm so bad" and Jason seems to have made up his mind far too early that Boon is obvscum. I could see it being a bus. But at the very least, one of these guys is scum.

I like Trojan for town (still on Page 10), but I realize it may be that old bias about agreeing with what he says.

Fenchurch, I'm not positive, but I think Tier and Cheet know Boon just as well as I do, if not better. I've played in three games with him and was NK'd early in both Masquarade and Pokémon, so I'm mostly working with meta from Joss Whedon where he coasted (to an extent) as a town power role. Actually, he may not have even replaced in to Pokémon until I was already dead now that I think about it. But yeah, you asked for my read on Boon. I think that's answered in this post.

Mala, what is your overall read on Boon? You mentioned that you are taking the self meta as null, but what about everything else?

lol Boon's Page 11 is so baaaad.

Delta, who do you mean when you say "TJ"? Is that Trojan? Can you go into more detail on why STD is scum? You mention him a lot in your big post, but I don't actually see any specific points and you say you're just as willing to vote him as you are to vote Boon. I'd like to know why.

Hmm. Most of STD's reads are the exact opposite of mine. Can you explain your reads on Trojan, Fenchurch, and myself as well as your lack of read on Boon and Jason? Nothing in Trojan's posts feels scummy to me. I still have a gut scum read on Fenchurch and no clue why and would love to know why you have a town read. People tend to read me based on my activity and I haven't done jack shit this game, so why am I town? Also, your Thor read is based on his playstyle/personality. Your difficulty explaining your Sleepykrew read is disturbing too.

I only made it through Page 12. I'm gonna try to get back to this tonight, but it might be a long shot. I'm about to stop by work on my day off, go to my son's doctor appointment, and play poker. If I get any time for this tonight, it will be after all of that and that assumes my fiancé is busy or sleeping or in a good enough mood to leave me to this. I'll keep checking in though so I can probably answer any questions on this post.

[Egg]

Ok, so back on Page 13, I'm finding myself siding with Delta over STD, especially after STD's OMGUS.

I don't like Jason insisting that nothing about his Boon push was policy. At first, it very clearly looked that way. I'm referring to the "liability" post and the "don't want around late in the game" stuff. Granted, he presented other points and some of them were even before this. But those two posts are him using policy points to sell his case even if he didn't call it that. It feels like he is pretending not to realize that.

Thor, I know you said it's a mild read, but can you explain why you lean scum on Trojan?

She's following the game. She's still trying to figure Jason out.

No idea why, but this felt untrue the first time I read it.

I get the feeling Boon is intentionally avoiding voting Delta at the bottom of Page 14. Top of the next page doesn't convince me otherwise.

Our conversation is getting pedantic and neither of us are budging so I'm going to stop.

I can't help but wonder if STD's team told him stop arguing with Thor or he's gonna end up lynched.

Thor, what about Jason's token thing bothered you?

Thor, you mentioned twice that you wanted me to vote. I've been behind for most of the day. Without a good chunk of the info that this game has to offer, I haven't been comfortable voting.

Delta makes a good point about STD's OMGUS and it's along the same lines as what I was thinking. He didn't just OMGUS and be done with it. He tried to justify it.

There's nothing left for me to argue with you so I'm going to do my best to nip this conversation in the bud before it become too verbose

Ok, maybe this wasn't a "don't argue with Thor" thing and that's just how you end arguments...

Keep in mind, these are page 11 reads! Don't go over exaggerating everything like you all have been. I'll give you 6.

Yes. it's page 12. How are you possibly town reading all of those?

Is it just me or is this exactly the kind of exaggeration you warned us all about and now you're the one doing it to STD?

Not especially, but I'm sure I would've been lynched on the spot if I had done that...

You...weren't...just posting that to try and get a flash wagon going on BS, were you?

Pie can be town, but misguided I think on the Thor vote. I'm not exactly strong town reading Thor, but his style isn't really "work to solve the game". It's more "Guys, I solved the game early Day 1. Now follow me or you're dumb". And that's exactly what he's doing here. Well, to an extent. To be fair, he doesn't seem to be looking for the support the way he normally does and that's the one thing that stands out to me about his play.

Page 18 update on my scum reads. Nothing has changed with Boon/Jason. I think there is scum there. The only slight change is that I'm less convinced this could be scum cross bussing. STD has slipped into a scum read for me. The Trojan gut town read has dropped to maybe scum. Not scum with Jason though. I still don't see Fenchurch or sthar as being exactly obvtown. Fenchurch is still gut and if I ever decide I want to pursue that, I'll try to figure out why. But for right now, that's a very weak read. I'm on the fence on Mala and Thor. I respect both of their play and would probably be town reading them if I didn't know them to be good players. Consider them both weak town. Micc and Sleepykrew are gut/PoE town reads. Delta and Pie feel like town. Best guess at a scum team would be STD, Fenchurch, and one of Boon/Jason. Unfortunately, I'm more sure that one of Boon/Jason is scum than I am of either of the other two being scum so I'd like to sort that today. I realize I am, what's the word? "Watchful", maybe? of a lot of players here. I don't normally have many more scum reads than the number of scum in a game. But paranoia and gut reads seem to be getting the best of me here. When my V/LA is over, I want to get stronger reads on those players (Fenchurch, sthar, Trojan, Thor, Mala). That will be a priority for me.

Can you read in English? Egg never asked me for thoughts. He just announced that I was scum.

Something stood out to me and I said is much. I assumed you'd respond and you did. Just because I didn't ask anything specific doesn't mean I wasn't expecting a response from you. It's kind of how mafia works. Someone sees something scummy, points it out, and lays a vote. Person being voted responds. Response gets judged. Repeat until decision is made.

Oooh dismissive strawman. You can take that shit right back to wherever you bought it. Actually, it is just good scumplay to foster apathy and inactivity in the town. By attacking my immediate entrance into the game and painting my attempts to figure people out as scummy, Egg puts me on the defensive. I'll have trouble engaging if I'm spending time defending my first impressions, it makes getting into the game an uphill battle, and since I wind up spending time not generating game content it might make me into a viable mislynch.

LMAO. So you think I voted you just to make you not care about the game and easy to lynch? Sorry, but it's a huge stretch to think that I'd think along those lines and even if I did you aren't the player I'd fear most if I was scum. That's not at all how I play anyway.

I know I'm mad fucking close, but I'm out of time on the library computer (well, 4 min remaining but...lol). I've read up to my last content post. Should be able to finish by tomorrow hopefully.

[Egg]

Boon/Pie, Cheet wants your reads on each other.

Trojan, I meant "bullshit" when I said BS, not Boon.

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, I just read your perception of the Jason and Thor discussion regarding Boon. It feels accurate to me, but I'm failing to see why you have an issue with it.

Thor, you were asked if you are open to lynching sthar. A simple "sure" surprises me. You are voting the lead wagon, so I thought you'd say something along the lines of "People should be voting Jason if they want to compromise, not someone with zero votes. Why would I change MY vote?". Why are you open to doing that considering the current situation?

Trojan, if Jason were to flip town, how would that affect your Boon and Thor reads? Is Delta your strongest scum read (at the time of your vote) or are you pursuing that vote because he is a new scum read?

Sleepykrew, do you think Trojan may have been bussing Jason when he voted him?

STD, I never said you were a shitty player. Hell, I really don't think you are. At all. Not sure what gives you that impression either. Either I said something that was taken a way that I didn't mean for it to be taken, or that is just AtE. Also, Thor isn't the only player in this game day that you've pulled the "I'm ending this conversation" card on.

His conclusion was 'trying to appear to contribute without doing so.' But my opinions were not the big popular ones, my questions all had utility and none of them had already been answered. He made a bunch of unsupported assertions involving factual inaccuracies. His read of my posts was not accurate, but he still pushed the same conclusion. What reason does town have to push a conclusion despite the evidence being bad?

I don't think the evidence was bad. To be fair, you haven't followed up on ANY of it except in response to me. If I hadn't said anything, I honestly can't say I believe you'd have done anything with it. Therefore, it was apparently a pretty useless post even though it has the appearance of contribution. So I wasn't exactly wrong on it.

My 'angle' amounts to egg being scum because his conclusions were not factually

^This isn't true. Go back and read my posts in response to you earlier.

Delta, my bad. I hadn't read your full attack on STD when I asked that and the first post you made about it didn't give much info. That question was due to me not being caught up as opposed to you not giving enough info.

He had decided his position before I reacted. That's not the same thing.

If this was true, I wouldn't be wavering on my read on you. Are you even reading my posts? The above seems to apply more to your stance on me than the other way around.

Aaaaaand I'm caught up.

Vote Boon

[Egg]

Trojan, I fucked up. I meant if Jason flipped scum.

STD, my point was that it didn't seem natural and could have been based on team advice. Everyone should be getting advice from their team whether they are a good player or not.

[Egg]

My main concern with Boon is how he first throws out the VI card and then goes all "lol I can be useful" and does nothing. The entire purpose of his game right now is trying to WIFOM votes on him into looking bad.

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Jason

I'm not caught up but saw that deadline is coming and prefer a Jason lynch to a Thor lynch

[Egg]

Jason, you act like I haven't read anything. I did a full catch up maybe two RL days ago and the thread exploded again. The only thing I've missed is that thread explosion.

Also this is me acknowledging the claim

[Egg]

Skimmed a little. Saw Thor's claim. Still strongly prefer a Jason lynch to Thor. Should have some time to catch up tomorrow.

Hider is semi confirmable over time though. Bodyguard kind of is to an extent, but only if Jason either dies or fails to protect an obvious target. But pre-claim, Jason's play definitely was more lynch worthy than Thor's. *shrug*. I don't feel great about a new wagon popping up and getting yet another power role claim and I still think Jason is scum anyway.

[Egg]

Boon

[Egg]

And how am I supposed to know that your read is wavering? Am I a mind reader? 

You could read my posts. I gave all of my reads and my guess at a scum team didn't include you. I gave a list of players I wasn't sure about and want to look closer at and you were on it. But yeah if you can read minds, that probably would work better than just reading. It would show that my reads are genuine, so I won't be wearing any tin foil hats. If you can read everyone else's minds, this game could be over pretty quickly if you are town.

This is a vote for a low-hanging fruit wagon.

Nah. Boon had two votes (I think) at the time. If I was mindlessly wagoning, I'd have voted Jason around Page 3 and parked there all day. Voting you and later Boon doesn't really support your theory.

If Jason flips town, I don't like Trojan's reaction to the claim. I don't mean the fact that he doesn't believe the claim. That's fine and I'm actually with him on that. But something about his push feels fake. Like he's trying to hard and not at all open to maybe being wrong.

The fact that after a protective claim, there has been 0 unvotes HEAVILY implies this wagon is scum driven and want to see it through. Town would, at least in some way be doubting their reads. In fact, it has made three people even more determined to see it through. (Thor, Horse and SK

Not entirely true. Some people are MORE likely to back off of a power role claim as scum. It looks better. They can play the role of the careful townie. They can jump on those who don't back off. And they can try to out more claims.

Fenchurch, you don't have a single scum read?!?

Want to make a note here as I believe you have this backwards- surely if I was going to claim something, as scum, it would make more sense to claim something that WOULD be countered to out a more powerful role?

No. If you're scum, that claim is meant to stop your lynch. But even if we go with what you are saying, a doc claim would effectively be a counterclaim so even if you were going for a counterclaim, that's not a terrible choice.

So. If Thor is hiding behind Jason, that immediately sorts the bodyguard claim IF Thor is town.
-Town Thor and scum Jason means they both die
-Town Thor and town Jason means Thor tells us Jason is town. We can decide later.
OR Jason protects successfully and dies. Still sorted
-Scum Thor means all of this is useless.

I personally think Thor is town. If he's not, he'll have to either bus or claim an innocent on a buddy at some point which helps town anyway. But basically, I trust him to sort Jason for us and we don't have to risk lynching a power role that way.

Unvote, Vote Boon

We need a flashwagon. Everyone not voting needs to change this immediately. If people don't like Boon for today, I'll compromise but this is where I want us to lynch.

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Trojan

[Egg]

Pie, why is hider easier to fake? It's essentially confirming a townie every day and if you confirm a buddy and one of you dies, the other is auto lynch. Bodyguard can just say "I tried to protect X and failed" every day which works until there is an obvious protect.

You are misunderstanding my earlier issues with Jason. It's similar to my latest point against Trojan. He didn't seem to be open to any possibility that he could be wrong which doesn't look like he's trying to figure things out.

I understand where you get "going with the flow" from my play. I've been V/LA almost all of Day 1. This should be better on Day 2.

On the Boon/Delta thing, it's noteworthy because I felt like Boon was dancing around a Delta scum read and then came in and defended Delta. If Boon flips scum, it's a good enough reason to look into Delta.

Thor's posts since my second to last catchup look like his town meta. The way he argues with Jason and STD, specifically. And it's not that scum faking innocents on buddies "helps town". It's that the second one of them flips scum, the other is auto lynched which is risky. It's not impossible that this is what Thor is doing. It's just that calling it easy is just straight wrong.

Also, I wasn't calling sthar scum for very long if you look at my ISO.

[Egg]

Fenchurch, the mala vote kind of sucks right now. We are in a deadline compromise situation and mala has no other votes if I'm not mistaken.

[Egg]

What did you like about it

[Egg]

Guys too many words. I can't keep up.........

[Egg]

A thought I had today: if Jason is scum and Thor is town, Jason's push to lynch me makes no sense. Jason would know that his goose is cooked if Thor survives the day, so he'd push to lynch Thor. (And he wouldn't look scummy for doing so; as has been pointed out, Thor has made a safe claim that he can get away with.) So either Jason is town, or... oh, this BETTER not be the truth... Jason and Thor are BOTH scum. So I'm certainly not going to push against Jason now

Not if scum has a roleblocker and Jason wants to push "don't lynch PR claims" because he claimed bodyguard.

Egg (in addition to what you said) appears to be voting him bc he doesn't like his reaction to jason's claim - he believes TH feels way too strongly it's false - and he thinks this despite supposedly not believing jason's claim himself is true. this is also conditional around jason being town, again while he doesn't appear to believe the claim. this is a part of why I'm getting bad gut pings from the way the wagons are right now.

My Day 1 reads don't account for associative tells. After Jason or Trojan flips, I'll re-evaluate. This is true for a handful of reads.

the bolded isn't strictly true. if you fake claim hider as scum and clear a partner, and then get lynched yourself, the other isn't in any way an auto lynch. it's just a shitton of WIFOM regardless of how you attempt to look at it.

Just typed out my arguement against this and realized you're right. The reverse would still be true though. If one of Thor's "clears" flips scum, fingers are going to get pointed at Thor. And still, a hider can be so valuable that lynching someone who claims it Day 1 is a bad idea. Even if you think he's scum, why not let him get some results on the off chance you're wrong and sort him later? And if you are wrong, there's even the chance he dies at night and we don't have to use up a lynch. I'm realizing the more I think about it that hider would be a better fakeclaim than I thought. But that's still no reason to not get any benefit from a possible real hider.

Still to Pie, on my stance on sthar vs Trojan, you might be right. I may have been voting sthar longer than I thought Trojan was scum. I'm not sure. I think it's close. But I don't see how that is relevant to my current read on either unless you are suggesting that I'm scum with sthar which I'd be shocked if you were doing.

On Thor, still to Pie... it's a vibe I get. He seems to be arguing the way he always does. I don't know why, but I didn't feel that early in the game and I do now. Maybe his activity picked up and that's why? I really don't know. He just feels more like Thor now. Even before, the closest thing I ever had to a scum read on him was paranoia. You're acting like I was ready to vote him and that was never close to being true.

Trojan, why does your team think we have four scum in a 13p game?

Delta, if we have enough, I'd flash wagon Boon. Much more confident on him than Trojan.

[Egg]

If you plan on voting Thor, you still need one vote in addition to yours

[Egg]

Trojan, the way you listed it originally looked like you were assuming four. Then again I didn't realize on first glance that micc/vyse was one slot so meh. My bad.

Mala, I forget when but I remember flash wagoning scum right before deadline semi recently.

[Egg]

He's also V/LA...

[Egg]

Fenchurch, hammer your scumbuddy lol

[Egg]

Why would they be immune to blocks?

[Egg]

Huh. I rarely, if ever, consult the wiki. But I did because this is a normal game and it looks like you are right.

[Egg]

So if Thor is alive tomorrow, Jason is confirmed as either:
A) town bodyguard or
B) Scum with Thor

Why is Thor up for a lynch again?

[Egg]

Actually... this goes against everything I stand for lol

But

No lynch might actually be less disastarous than lynching a claimed hider...

[Egg]

It's a good fakeclaim to make BECAUSE lynching it is such horrible play. We can deal with it later. Hell, even Day 2 if we lynch him and he flips scum, Jason is confirmed as his buddy. If we lynch him today, we don't have that luxury. Waiting will confirm players' alignments regardless of his alignment.

[Egg]

If Thor is scum, then no lynch just loses us a Day.

Lynching Trojan isn't nearly as risky though. Or as dumb.

[Egg]

How? You said yourself that if Jason is scum, it's proven tomorrow. You're the one who brought this whole thing up. Now that the only other option is lynching you, you don't even agree with it?

[Egg]

What happened to Jason absolutely having to lynch Thor is he's scum? It was YOUR point. Why is it suddenly not true anymore?

[Egg]

Fenchurch, you have 8 minutes to bus. I'm not switching. Trojan is already voting Thor. It's up to you or we're no lynching.

Preview edit: 7 minutes.

[Egg]

We could have Thor scum and Jason town. I doubt we can have Jason scum and Thor town.

Shit. True.

[Egg]

So Thor alive Day 2 means:
A) Jason town, Thor town. Thor's eventual flip would confirm Jason.
B) Jason town, Thor scum
C) Thor and Jason scum.

Ok, so we only get info if Thor is town.

If we leave Trojan alive and he's town we get....................probably him lynched later anyway???

Lynching Thor is still too risky.

Fenchurch 3 minutes

[Egg]

I don't give a fuck about town points. I'm not lynching a hider claim

[Egg]

Fenchurch or sthar, vote trojan

[Egg]

Dammit.

Unvote, Vote Thor

You guys better be right.

[Egg]

So I doubt there are two scum from the Thor wagon. If there is a bus, it's Sleepykrew. Maybe Pie, but probably not. I'm looking mostly at Boon, Vyse, and Mala.

STD, my reads are very close to yours right now. Just a gap between Sleepykrew and Mala/Vyse and Pie probably less town than the remaining players on the Thor wagon.

Trojan makes a good point about Vyse asking us rather than his team before voting.

Jason, Boon really claimed he gets better after Day 1? Lmao. Not sure how I missed that. But yeah, I noticed that about Delta and Sleepykrew being here but not active at deadline. Before I saw Thor's flip, I was gonna vote park on Delta today for not helping me push Trojan. I ranted in my team's PT between the hammer and the flip about how pissed I was that he just sat back while we lynched a hider claim. But with Thor being scum, meh. It's possible that he didn't want to look obvious hard defending a buddy and didn't want to be forced to bus, but I think it's more likely he's town.

Sleepykrew, I was bluffing on the no lynch thing. I didn't want to lynch a hider claim, but I'd never allow a Day 1 no lynch when I have the power to avoid it. Thor probably would have been lynched later unless he was town and proved it fast, so Day 1 could have been a wasted day with a no lynch. I know I look like an idiot with Thor's flip, but meh. I'll take a Day 1 scum lynch any day regardless of how I look after it. And to be fair, if I was scum with Thor, I probably would have sat back and let whatever happen instead of catching up right before deadline and hard defending. That or let the no lynch happen because I'd already made a case for it. But if six people think someone is scum enough not to switch and no lynch is the only other choice, I'll trust their read over mine every time. Especially with one minute before deadline. Why don't you like that Trojan says Oversoul didn't like Micc's lurking?

Boon, two things. One, I made it clear I didn't think you and Jason were scum together. You were both scummy and I wasn't going to play the game of associative tells on Day 1. Two, i actually voted Trojan because he already had two votes and was the most viable wagon of my scum reads. I didn't start the wagon. But even if I had, I'm a better player than to go all out like that just to avoid a scum buddy's lynch.

Sthar, why don't you seem to think there is scum in {Boon/Mala/Vyse}?

STD, I don't see how you can possibly think that as scum I'd expect town points for Thor's flip. I know you said you weren't leaning that way, but I found that bit laughable. And I think sthar actually said something similar before deadline.

I really thought I was going to vote Boon today, but my gut is telling me this is a better lynch:

Vote Vyse

[Egg]

But yeah, I noticed that about

Delta

being here but not active at deadline.

Seriously what the fuck are you talking about

Fixed

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, Day 1 no lynches basically makes Day 2 a second Day 1 but with a dead town player in damn near every game where it happens. Do you disagree? Also, Cheet wants to know why Mala isn't in your lynch pool.

Pie, you can tell Mastin I'm not really even close to scum reading you right now. It's just that if someone decided to hard bus, I find you more likely that sthar (maybe), Trojan the counter wagon, STD who got emotional when he was fighting with Thor, dead town Fenchurch, or myself who I know is town. If someone bussed, it had to be Sleepykrew or you with an outside chance of sthar. But I agree with you that we'll probably find both scum on the Trojan wagon and that's where I'm most interested in lynching from today as I said. Wait. Mastin thinks Boon is town for NOT hammering scum? Because he'd obviously hammer his scum buddy? No. I disagree with that.

What exactly about Pie's play looks like bussing

It doesn't. If she bussed, she did it well.

I don't like Mala asking Pie for Mastin's read on her and then explaining that it should be a perfect read. If Pie were scum, couldn't Mastin just get it right from knowing? If Pie is town, there's obviously a chance Mastin could be wrong. So what does this question accomplish? It doesn't sort Pie at all, so it feels like an appeal to be town read.

You said both of us
Why did you say both of us

Dunno to be honest. Looks like I misremembered or mistyped or something. Maybe whoever I was responding to included both of you and I didn't fact check.

Boon, why is Mala town?

I retract my previous belief that {Thor, Mala, Boons} is the scumteam...it's a pretty ballsy scum move to post the exact same readslist right after each other

It's probably Vyse and one of Boon/Mala.

Are we allowed to talk about tokens, and where we put them at?

Are you even reading? Not wanting to talk about it was a point being used against Jason Day 1.

This post is too wishy washy for me. Who exactly are you scum reading? He's setting himself up so he can vote in any direction without getting scrutinized for it. Congratulations, Egg, you are now only the 2nd scummiest person here.

VOTE: Delta

I'm not seeing it that way. He says Jason is town. He says Sleepykrew is town. He says you are scum. The only possibly wishy washy stances are backing off of STD and Pie. I don't think that post warranted that reaction from you.

Mala's entire argument with Pie rubs me the wrong way. Post 996 by Pie pretty much sums up why.

Trojan, yeah, your lynch was more likely than Boon's and I wanted to lynch someone who didn't claim a power role. My scum read on you wasn't as strong as on Boon but there just wasn't support.

I was conflicted and I knew that I couldn't wagon anyone else.

Yet you were so dead set against a Boon wagon starting up.

Beyond that, Boon is pretty damn town. Mala and Vyse are just now getting their heads in the game, and I'm willing to give them the space to do that. If they lapse into lurking or otherwise become unreadable we can talk about them.

So they are town unless they lurk?

@pie- you don't think that Egg wouldn't be tempted to jump Thor's obviously sinking ship to be a part of an otherwise all-town wagon? Even under pressure, when he knew that he was visibly active at deadline?

If I was scum planning on bussing, I'd have done it long before the last minute before deadline.

[Egg]

Boon, just because you've bussed before doesn't mean you're town every time scum gets lynched and you aren't on the wagon.

Mala, I wasn't asking you to explain. I got that you were against it. I'm just saying if you were so sure Trojan was town and Boon was an option, you being against it stands out especially when you are saying Trojan was the only choice. I mean it's true to an extent. A Boon lynch wasn't happening. But they way youcame in all fuck no we aren't doing this really stands out to me.

Boon, Delta is probably the least likely from the Trojan wagon to flip scum. (Actually, a double check shows me Jason was on the wagon so second least likely)

[Egg]

Yeah Cheet's question was outdated by the time I got to it lol. My bad

[Egg]

Yeah Cheet's question was outdated by the time I got to it lol. My bad

Still though, why wasn't she there at day start?

[Egg]

K

[Egg]

I see the Vyse wagon is a pressure wagon, nvm that part

Don't you think it's possible he replaced in to a deadline situation, saw a wagon on his scumbuddy and a wagon on a townie, voted the townie, and planned on saying "well, I didn't have time to catch up"?

[Egg]

Delta, are you town reading Vyse?

[Egg]

Jason, my pool for today is three and I'm not entirely convinced Mala and Boon are scum together. That leaves Vyse as scum with one of them. So it's PoE+gut+Trojan vote. I realize it's not a convincing case but it's enough for me. Not sure what more you expect. All I can do is repeat the same unconvincing thing over and over.

[Egg]

I'm more than open to it. If it comes down to Delta vs Mala like it seems to be right now, you've got my vote. Can you sell me on a Boon/Mala team though? I wanna believe but I'm just not sure I do.

[Egg]

Actually Delta and Vyse are tied. Still though. You know what I mean lol

[Egg]

Honestly, that looks like a better "Boon is scum" case than "Boon and mala could be buddies" case. It doesn't really change my mind on anything.

[Egg]

This mostly:

I retract my previous belief that {Thor, Mala, Boons} is the scumteam...it's a pretty ballsy scum move to post the exact same readslist right after each other

Although ballsy isn't the word I'd use.

I dunno though. I don't think it's impossible that Boon didn't read Mala's reads and it just happened to be the same. Or he just didn't care. I just think it's unlikely.

[Egg]

eh, I could easily see it coming from partners - and, in fact, have seen it coming from partners on at least one occasion. "too obvious to be scum together" really isn't a good argument

I might also just be completely wrong about one of my town reads. either way, I don't really think it's a good idea to try and guess the entire team at this point.

What is "obvious" about it?

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Mala

[Egg]

FoS seems to have not been passed on to the newer generation. Like I'm pretty sure they know what it means. They just don't use it for some reason.

[Egg]

Remember when some Mods required two #'s before your vote?

[Egg]

'07 and '08 I think.

[Egg]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9413

[Egg]

Prod dodge. I'm sick & it's six A.M. I've been forcing myself to read through the thread, but I'm at the point where I just can't think anymore. Catch you guys tomorrow.

But you didn't come up with any reads or anything when you've been reading the thread?

[Egg]

They're called number signs...

[Egg]

V/LA through Monday with possible access Friday only

I'll be able to check in briefly every once in a while, but it's gonna be limited.

[Egg]

Thor was more than active enough, and widely discussed, that zero mentions of him stands out.

[Egg]

Well that and the fact that he was widely discussed throughout the entire day and even ended up lynched. How often do you not talk about the player who ends up lynched Day 1? You'd think he'd offer an opinion once in a while.

[Egg]

Jason, the Thor wagon started about a week before deadline and he was pretty polarizing before that as someone (Trojan?) said already. Boon also had three content posts on April 11th, three days before deadline. He had plenty of opportunity to talk about Thor who was active, polorizing, lynched, and scum. I don't understand how this is a non-issue for you.

Delta, don't get caught up in "too scummy to be scum".

Boon, how do you define "doing well"?

[Egg]

Admittedly, it got hotter after you claimed. But it was kind of forming before that. Still, Thor was a big deal before the wagon, as STD highlighted.

[Egg]

Is it too late to lynch Boon?

[Egg]

Jason, did you make a Delta case that is more convincing than Pie's town case for Delta? It's entirely possible that I forgot about it.

[Egg]

Sthar

1. What was "easy" about placing a first vote on you? How did my reads on you and Trojan specifically not "evolve"?
2. Huh? Where?
3. I don't see why you think I'd hard defend a buddy like that
4. Bullshit
5. *shrug* it really wouldn't be worth the loss even if I knew that exactly one player would react that way
6. Well yeah. We lynched scum Day 1. I want to lynch someone on Day 2 who wasn't on the wagon. I don't see the issue. Do you think both scum bussed Thor?
7. I don't see where I'm hard defending Delta. I'm just not interested in his lynch today. He'd be a fourth choice at best.

How is pushing my strongest scum read for most of this game opportunistic? Does he even have any votes on him?

That post was just baaaaad. Too bad you're probably town...

[Egg]

I've been wondering that.

[Egg]

Hmm. Five days to deadline.

Sthar, you said at the beginning of the day that Delta was scum. You seemed very sure of it but haven't really commented on him since. Do you have a case against him? Are you still scum reading him. You also said you don't like the Mala wagon. Do you think she's town? Am I right in assuming you'd prefer a Delta lynch to a Mala lynch?

Trojan, you FoS'd Mala after Oversoul said she was scum. Now Tammy thinks Mala is town. Are you personally scum reading Mala? Do you trust your read more than Tammy's? What is your read on Delta, who you don't seem to have commented on today? Which of the two would you rather lynch?

Vyse, any opinion on Delta and Mala? You called them both null before. Is that catchup still happening today?

Delta, have you made an effort to sort your Mala read? I assume you'd vote her over no lynch or your own lynch, correct? How would you feel about a Boon flash wagon lol

[Egg]

Sthar, I feel like you decided to scum read me as soon as I questioned you at the beginning of day 1 and everything you see, you try to make fit that mold.

viable wagons

I'd like to know how you define this. I have one vote (yours) and we are five days from deadline. If mala and Delta both happen to claim power roles, we'll be in the same spot as yesterday where there is no other lynch option and the chances of that working out nicely on back to back days are pretty low. Do you honestly believe you can sway five people in five days?

[Egg]

Mala, who are you saying I've "eliminated"? Just to clarify.

[Egg]

Oh.

So....

Pie?

[Egg]

STD doesn't seem to have 100% made up his mind.

[Egg]

So Egg doesn't hammer. Thor has claimed hider, and gets lynched at massclaim or the first time one of his faked results fucks up. His death is inevitable, and when it happens, nobody is going to go back and see who prevented his day1 lynch for no reason? 

Um. You just made my arguement for me. This is exactly why I would have never hard defended Thor as scum. And I said this at the beginning of Day 2.

I feel like your reasoning relies on the assumption that Egg is a great player as scum who would never make a mistake, but a shit player as town. One of those is a goofy fucking stretch

What part of having a wrong read, but hammering to avoid no lynch, is shit town play? Also, "make a mistake" is a hell of an understatement for hammering a buddy at the last minute instead of saving him for town points that probably won't happen.

[Egg]

I thought you didn't want to lynch a D1 PR

That's what I was about to say.

Yeah.........

0__o

[Egg]

Jason, "no" would have worked fine.

[Egg]

Vyse, are any of your teammates reading closely enough to basically control your vote if we get close to deadline?

[Egg]

Prod dodge

[Egg]

I'm actually with Boon on this one. Was gonna post something similar myself, but decided it was pointless because Jason was already obvtown with Thor's flip.

[Egg]

Trojan, you're right. It's entirely possible Jason and Thor cross bussed and both fakeclaimed power roles right before deadline. But I'm not really entertaining that on Day 2. Maybe later in the game if all of my scum reads flip town and we're completely stuck, it's something I'd look at. But for right now, I'm considering Jason obvtown and nowhere near my lynch pool. Pie makes a pretty good point about him not being counterclaimed too.

So. Mala's claim. Hmm. In a normal setup where there can't be a SK, that's actually a very provable claim. That is, unless scum keep RBing her or she claims as much. I dunno. Pie, what do you think?

[Egg]

I'm finding myself agreeing with Sleepykrew. Why block an unclaimed player over a claimed power role? The only way it makes sense is a town RB (probably meaning Jason's claim is fake) or Jason being scum (because obviously they wouldn't block him in that case). And if Sleepykrew was town two hours before deadline, shooting him makes no sense. Basically, I'm in complete agreement with Sleepykrew right now

[Egg]

Sthar, walk me through your thought process. Are you for some reason assuming we have either two protective roles or a town RB+bodyguard? Because one of Mala and Jason being scum seems more likely to me.

[Egg]

also, if you're a town roleblocker and blocked Mala, claim. tia

Acknowledging this and the fact that I'd comply if I was in that situation. If everyone does the same, we can rule out any town RB scenarios or confirm that mala was in fact blocked by town.

I'll also confirm that I didn't protect Sleepykrew last night and am confident that I in no way contributed to stopping Mala's claimed kill on Sleepykrew.

Preview edit: the hostility is unwarranted. I asked you to walk me through your thought process, but I guess you decided not to read that, ironically enough. Basically, it was a question, not an assumption.

[Egg]

you know what pie? fuck you.

i'm really fucking sick of 'i'm just right, sheep me, you're all stupid'

i am NOT claiming if I am the roleblocker, because I'm NOT wasting town utility on a TESTABLE ROLE.

I don't get that from Pie's posts at all.

[Egg]

I wanna vote Bins, but six players still need to post

[Egg]

Hmm. I don't want to commit to anything because I just worked 16 hours when I expected 8 so I feel fucking shot.

But.

There are a few scenarios here.
1) Bins is scum. This game is pretty much over.
2) Scum no killed knowing there was a RB so whoever was blocked would get lynched and the RB gets outted.

For me, this comes down to whether or not RB and bodyguard probably exist together. I dunno. STD and Jason both feel obvtown from the Thor flip. I feel like not lynching Bins would be dumb right now.

[Egg]

UNVOTE:
I wanna hear from Nexus first.

You heard from Nexus, didn't seem to change your mind. I was going to suggest not lynching me and just doing the night again with STD blocking me but it seems pointless.

If you're town, scum would probably no kill.

Vote Bins

It only gets complicated if Bins is town. Hopefully this is game over.

[Egg]

Hmm. Who did you protect then?

[Egg]

I mean.

STD was the obvious protect and the obvious kill. If you are town, scum probably felt ok killing him because you'd die and we'd lose a power role either way.

OR

You are scum. But would you really kill the guy you're supposed to be protecting? I think yes. Because if he blocks you, it could be incriminating (maybe not because of what we just went through with Bins but still risky). If he blocks someone else, we have confirmed town running around.

I dunno. Lemme do some rereading.

[Egg]

Jason ISO:
Day 1:
0- This was that nervous sounding double RVSing post he caught crap for
1-2 - Possible reaction to Thor bus? Also questioned Mala. I'm curious about any follow up. I don't remember any off hand but that was 65 pages and 3 game days ago.
3-5 - Just answering questions
6-13 - questioning and small attacks all on currently living players, then the Boon vote.
14- 18 - Answering stuff, banter, pushing Boon.
19-22 - Going ape shit for Boon stuff
23-25 - About wagon on him
26 -

In bold text, says he is town reading Thor

27-35 - Defending self, pushing Boon
36-37 - Responds to small jab from Mala about attacking easy targets and avoiding questions. I actually could really see this as scum/scum.
38-39 - Defending self. Mala seems persistent. Looks slightly less like scum/scum now. Hmm. Jason also seems to be getting frustrated, but *shrug*. I could see that whether he is town or scum being bussed by Thor and now attacked by scumbuddy Mala too.
40 - Soft attack on Delta
41 - Defending self
42 - The infamous token talk.
43-54 - Defending from Thor. I notice a lighter tone than when he was defending himself before. And not once has he come close to calling Thor scum. He's specifically addressing points, but not questioning the motives behind Thor's attack.
55-62 - Still defending from Thor, but the tone suddenly changed. It's no longer light. Why did it take so long to start "calling BS" on Thor's case? Thor's case didn't change. What is interesting is that it was during this discussion (around Jason's 50th post) that the Thor wagon started.
63-65 - Bringing up old points against Boon
66-68 - Talking to Sleepykrew about Boon
69 - This post is interesting. He says his team is scumreading Thor, but didn't say why. And now he brings up his own points against Thor that could have applied earlier when he said Thor was town. Ends with a final Thor read of "conflicted". Now this feels like obvscum, right? I dunno. The interesting part is that this is coming from his team. But they aren't using reasons. So it's probably a genuine reason UNLESS they are reading the game and helping with fake reads OR he just needed a reason to 180 his read. I dunno. A lot of my read on Jason will probably come from how I end up interpreting this post.
70-71 - Now he's talking to Thor as if he is scum reading him. But he didn't say he was. He said he was "conflicted". Telling Thor that he (Thor) is only on the (Jason) wagon because it's easy and he doesn't have to do anything doesn't feel "conflicted". It also doesn't feel true. Thor pushed pretty hard. Yes, Thor was scum. But this is still a false point against him.
72 - Pushes Boon some more. Says Thor is an asshole whether town or scum. Hmm. Would he say that to a scumbuddy? Would he say it as town about someone who he is "conflicted" on? The answer to both seems like no, but neither feels less likely than the other.
73 - Again, I don't think Thor was on the sidelines.
74- 0 content
75 - Emotional response to Mala about Boon. I don't see any attempt to read Mala here, but there's that emotion when talking to scum that doesn't feel scum/scum again. Not sure what to think.
76 - Deadline votes Thor. Says he is "on the fence" on him.
77-78 - Attacks deadline votes after having just made one himself. Claims bodyguard.
79 - Defends self, attacks wagon
80-81 - Questions Trojan
82-85 - Now he is hardpushing Thor, but unvotes because of the claim. I can see this as scumbuddies coordinating claims of investigative/protective to out roles or force a mislynch or no lynch.
86-89 - Looking at wagons for new deadline lynch. Seems to favor Sleepykrew. I can see this coming from either alignment
90-91 - Asks mod for extension. Would he do this as scum? I think only if he's confident his team can get a mislynch. But I see no reason why he would be. Hmm.
92 - Votes Trojan. Says don't lynch a power role. What I find interesting is that after being so slow to call Thor scum and finally believing for a whopping three posts that Thor is scum, he never questioned the claim or tried to strategically decide what to do with the claim. He just went "ah fuck, unvote" and voted somewhere else.
93-96 - Doesn't want to talk about old points. Doesn't think no lynch benefits scum. Interesting. Day ends with his vote on Trojan and no discussion of Thor after the unvote. Hmm.

Day 2:
97: Discusses end of Day 1 and says he protected Pie. Shows weak reads on Boon (WTF?), Delta, and Sleepykrew.
98: Wants Delta lynch. Also calls Sleepykrew scum. No mention of the Mala wagon which is up to three at that point.
99: Continues Mala's line of questioning on Boon.
100: Emotional response to Sleepykrew.
101: Hmm. Calls Mala townish. Would love to know why.
102: Calls Vyse wagon "easy". Note he is scum reading Delta and Sleepykrew.
103: Sthar is gut scum now?
104-105: Votes Delta then questions him
106: Tells Vyse to catch up and give content
107-108 - Defends Boon vote Day 1.
109 - Sleepykrew BS
110 - Prod dodge. "Conflicted" on Mala. This sounds familiar LMAO. Defends Boon (Huh?)
111-113 - Defending Boon
114-115 - Admits his points were wrong in defending Boon
116 - Delta is a better lynch than Mala. (Just like Trojan was better than Thor)
117 - V/LA
118 - Bad case on Delta.
119 - V/LA
120-122 - calls lolslip on Sleepykrew for welcoming Bins only to later realize this was announced in the main thread.
123 - Promotes consolidation. So are deadline votes only bad when they are on him?
124-129 - Asking Mala about her claim. Shows skepticism.
130 - Soft attack on Sthar.
131 - Seems to really doubt Mala's claim. Note still no vote and none of the "we can't lynch a claimed power role" mentality from Day 1
132 - Backs soft attack from 130. Ends day with vote still on Delta.

Day 3:
133 - Protected Pie. Votes Bins. I'd expect this regardless of his alignment.
134-136 - Discussing Bins.
137 - Questions Boon's logic.

So............................

Originally, I thought I remembered him not being likely scum because of Thor interactions. But looking back, the only reason to think this is if you think Thor wouldn't bus. And...he would. So. That being said, there were a few town looking things in here. I don't really think they outweigh the fact that he avoided the Thor wagon after the claim and the Mala wagon completely while even agreeing with the points against the claim. Also, this is Mod WIFOM, but I'm not sure I buy a RB+BG setup. Most Mods use a RB instead of a protective role or view it as a protective role because it can stop kills. Not protecting STD is kinda BS too.

Vote Jason

Preview edit: After I submit, I'll look for STD saying he was blocking you. You'd actually be clear if he did.

[Egg]

I can't find it

preview edit: regarding....?

[Egg]

STD had already said he would be RBing me in the night

Show me this because I must be blind.

[Egg]

I'd recommend either reading my ISO review of Jason or doing your own. Preferably both. If you still feel Jason can't be scum, tell me why. Is it because Thor was bussing him?

preview edit:
*sigh* This is why people need to make it clear when they are joking. I can't tell if the "not really" is about blocking Jason or just the second sentence.

[Egg]

Oh that's why I couldn't find it. STD's ISO has two pages.

The BCS is I die tonight. The only way I for sure die tonight is if Jason isn't a BG and there is no BG or doc or protective role.

He said this first and in the same post. He didn't block Jason.

[Egg]

I'm agreeing with most if not all of what Sleepykrew is saying. It should have been obvious STD was the right protect. This just makes no sense if Jason is town. And it doesn't line up with anything he said before today.

[Egg]

I'm agreeing with most if not all of what Sleepykrew is saying. It should have been obvious STD was the right protect. This just makes no sense if Jason is town. And it doesn't line up with anything he said before today.

Are you fucking dumb or just not reading...

for the god damn 3rd fucking time... now get this through your god damn fucking skull

I did NOT consider STD scum until the flip of Bin as town with the no kill and claimed RB on someone town

vote:Egg

you're deliberately avoiding what I am saying in an attempt to misrep.

I read that. I just don't buy it. You'd have to be damn sure of it to not protect him and I just can't see it. Nice OMGUS though.

Well I need a full list of what Jason did each night for my read assessment.

Killed STD N3. Not sure about the rest.

[Egg]

Okay someone else point me to it please

I ISO'd him less than 12 hours ago and I don't get it...

I read that. I just don't buy it. You'd have to be damn sure of it to not protect him and I just can't see it. Nice OMGUS though.

So if you did read it, then this post doesn't make sense

This just makes no sense if Jason is town. And it doesn't line up with anything he said before today.

You either read it and understood that I didn't see him as scum until the last night phase

Or you didn't hence why you say it doesn't line up with what I said before this day phase.

It doesn't line up. Unless you thought there was absolutely zero chance Bins would flip town, there should be some evidence in your posts that such a flip would instantly make you so sure STD is scum that you'd not protect him even though he was the only claimed power role other than yourself. It's just so sudden I don't see how it can be true.

[Egg]

Boon, you really think Day 1 came down to two scum wagons?

[Egg]

Boon, you really think Day 1 came down to

two scum wagons?

It kinda did. It was me mostly, then Thor.

There

were

wagons appeared briefly on Boon and Trojan that mostly didn't get of the ground (gotta double check Trojan though) but for the most part, it seemed like only Thor or myself were seriously considered and pushed.

Um, what? How is this anything but a scum claim? Lol (And further reading shows Trojan pointed this out already...)

[Egg]

I saw that. Again, not sure I buy it. Just because I don't believe you on something doesn't mean I'm not reading it.

[Egg]

There are three different things I want to respond to in that post
But it'll just make you angry. sigh

Why'd you unvote?

Is one of them the fact that he implies scum's optimal play is to lie and say they protected the dead guy?

[Egg]

To be fair, I understand where he sees similarity. White knighting is sort of like buddying mislynch bait. It's just the reasons behind doing it are more for the purpose of how everyone else reads you rather than the person you are "buddying". They're different, but I get what he's trying to say.

[Egg]

Zach, so you swapped in to defend yourself better than Jason was? It seems like a survivalistic move to me.

[Egg]

Do you disagree? I mean if Jason was getting emotional as a town bodyguard, one successful protect results in his death anyway or one correct lynch ends the game. I don't see any reason why a town bodyguard would resort to swapping out over getting emotional.

[Egg]

Trojan, Zach went from dead to this game. Why would he refuse to do that just because it's a scum slot, if it is? <- just realized you're just repeating Tammy's thoughs, so...ask her that I guess?

A question for those with more experience than I: how common is it for scum to be provided with safeclaims in a normal game?

I'd be surprised if they had them, but wouldn't rule it out unless normal guidelines are clear on it.

Sleepykrew, I don't understand how that's opportunistic when I'm already voting him. I'd understand (but disgree) if you accused me of confirmation bias. But I don't see how you can honestly believe I'm jumping on the wagon just for that when I voted him at the start of the day.

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, you don't get to do that. If you make a point and I show it sucks, don't just make a dumbass comment and write it off.

Trojan, which of your reads have changed?

[Egg]

Clearly, we have different definitions of opportunism. I've shared mine. What's yours?

[Egg]

Neither side of this argument can say anything for sure, so it's not productive to continue this argument either.

No, the "not really" pretty obviously meant he was joking. I'd say that's "for sure".

Or are we done for today?That statement presupposed the game wasn't going to end.

Ehhhhh that's kind of a stretch I think.

[Egg]

I wouldn't say it looked like a slam dunk. I mean Bins felt like an obvious lynch with Occam's razor and all but there was still the no kill frame job possibility which seems to be what happened. In fact, I feel like Jason was far too confident that scum would never do that. It feels fake.

As for Delta, this is kind of just how he plays. He'll occasionally put effort into a post or two here and there but he's mostly in the background not doing much. I wouldn't consider contribution an alignment tell for him.

[Egg]

Then didn't vote for Bins in the midst of all that?

Come on man.

Lol I hammered one post later. He didn't have a chance after that post.

[Egg]

Quick fact: Jason was the only one OFF both scum lynches but ON the mislynch. Just realized that.

Preview edit: I'm pretty sure I've done it before. It's not so insane of a possibility that it should be ruled out entirely.

[Egg]

Well, knowing there is a roleblocker (Mala seemed to know) and one scum left after Mala's lynch, it's important to out them, find out who they are, and kill them before they stop your kill. So yeah it was pretty damn important.

VCA usually suggests mislynches have scum on the wagon, but bussing doesn't happen the way it used to.

To be perfectly honest though, you seem to genuinely not get the no kill play. I'm not sure what to make of that because if Jason talked to you guys before doing it, you'd get it. If he just did it on his own, you wouldn't. And Cheet told me when I first voted your slot that you are pretty obvtown to him and it's at least worth giving you another night. But if you aren't scum, I dunno. Maybe I'd be back to Boon but I remember not thinking it was Mala/Boon.

Unvote

for now.

Preview edit: Scum have daytalk. If Jason knew Thor was claiming a power role, that would explain the whole three posts or whatever it was that Jason was voting Thor for. And after the claim, he just kind of went "oh fuck PR claim" and never discussed it again. But yeah his appearance on the wagon was very brief.

[Egg]

Zach, I don't know if Thor busses or not, but if he does, that's exactly how I'd expect him to do it. I'd be shocked to see him half ass it.

Do you have any examples of you saying you don't like playing as scum in the past?

Sthar, since Sleepykrew refuses to explain, I can't wait to see where I've been opportunistic today. Jason was really the only person I've pushed today that I can recall. Can you explain to me how Zach is basically confirmed town?

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, I must have missed your answer then. How do you define opportunism?

Sthar, I love how I went from idiot scum who unnecessarily bussed Thor at the last second to evil genious scum.

He's an un-cc'd protective

I wouldn't be surprised if STD being RB was our "protective" role. Town RB is usually used with the mindset that they stop kills.

Pie, so you don't think STD legitimately blocked Mala's action on Sleepykrew? I really like the point that she didn't like about her target in case of a watcher/tracker which makes Sleepykrew, who was also near the middle of the Thor wagon, pretty obvtown.

Trojan, arguing balance is dumb when we don't know half the setup yet.

[Egg]

Why not?

[Egg]

Pie's reads have been pretty solid this game. Just sayin'

[Egg]

I pick lazy

[Egg]

No but you said pick one.

[Egg]

You picked wrong

Do you plan on answering? It takes the same effort as your last few posts.

So you want to lynch Skrew? If not, go ahead and fuck off.

Not really. Guess I'll be declaring V/LA while I'm busy fucking off.

Mod, V/LA until 5-13

[Egg]

Oh, ok. Makes sense.

[Egg]

Yeah, assuming Mala knew a tracker was no threat to her, claiming to have targeted Sleepykrew is null. There's no point trying to figure out who she tried to rolecop unless that's something you are insanely good at. Personally, I'm not.

[Egg]

Guys, sorry I was dickish about my V/LA and the fucking off thing. Sthar's posts haven't even been anything that should bother me, but I let it get to me because of BS going on at work. But yeah, I'm back and in a better mood.

It does support SK-town though. It makes the most sense for a scum RB to target town in case they did get tracked.

Well no shit scum will target town. But the point is maybe she didn't target Sleepykrew. Because, you know, her claim was fake and all. I mean, claiming to target Sleepykrew was part of what made her claim so awkward so maybe she didn't go through and pick a fake target that makes sense and just went with her real target but that's got so many levels of WIFOM to it that even I don't want to deal with it. By the way, Cheet thinks this post is a town slip because you said RB and she was actually a rolecop. I don't entirely agree because I wouldn't put it past you to forget a scumbuddy's role and it's possible you had STD's flip on your mind. I still think you are town, but this isn't a town slip in my eyes. What does everyone else think?

Assuming. That she knew. The interactions of a roleblocker. is not. safe.

I'm with Pie on most of the Mala stuff, but this is actually a fair point from sthar. If mala didn't know a tracker couldn't catch her in a lie, she'd probably still claim her real target. And Sleepykrew was a weird choice for a claimed vig target from her. Still no reason to clear Sleepykrew though because it requires assumptions. Sleepykrew's Thor vote is a better reason to town read him. Although I'd still like his definition of opportunism.

I'll catch up fully soon.

[Egg]

Pie, I'm still not caught up first of all. But you aren't likely to get my vote on Sleepykrew unless it's deadline compromise. Hell, at this point I'm not even sure self preservation is enough of a reason. I think Sleepykrew is town and I'm not sure what the odds are he survives later in the game if I'm lynched today.

Actually, I see deadline is in two days. And I don't think anyone with votes is scum. Fuck. Ummm. I'll have a vote by the end of this RL day

[Egg]

. . . . . . .

if you're really going to base assumptions on the notion that people just don't have common sense, I have no interest in continuing this conversation any further. but hey, not the first time you've done this this game

How is that common sense? Not everyone plays a lot of normals. It's not something that everyone should know. Sthar also doesn't seem to be assuming anything. Really, you're the one assuming Mala would have known. I personally don't think we can assume Mala did or did not know.

Trojan, don't you think sthar as scum would have switched to voting you Day 1 and blamed me for the mislynch assuming you are town? Why would sthar stay on Thor at that point unless he was town who was sure of his read? Why let it go to no lynch like I was threatening to do when he could get a mislynch? The only way it makes sense for sthar to be scum there is if you are scum too which doesn't add up (4 scum in a 13p).

Pie, tell Mastin (regarding reasons for town reading me) I will never understand the logic Mastin uses to read me. I actually don't see what about that post reads as being genuine. Like my interactions with dead scum should be the biggest reason I'm town. I wouldn't hammer Thor at the last second or vote Mala when I did as scum. I don't bus pointlessly. If I do it, it's with good reason.

That's possible, but to me it reads like "give me any reason to not vote mala, and I will jump on it.

If this was the case, I wouldn't have voted Mala when I did. I'd have continued pushing Boon.

Guys, I'm kind of stuck right now. I think either Zach or Boon is scum. So out of the people being voted right now, it should basically come down to who is more likely to be mislynched later which would be me. I don't want to self vote because that's shitty to do, but strategically speaking I'm probably the best lynch because me being alive is such a distraction from scumhunting. Remove my slot and people can start scumhunting for real knowing I was town. There's no interest in lynching Zach and probably no time for Boon and I don't want to start a fifth wagon two days before deadline. I just don't know what to do at this point. If this wasn't Team Mafia and such a big game, I'd self vote because my lynch helps town more than Sleepykrew, sthar, or Trojan. I mean I really don't see Sleepykrew being scum. Maybe he hasn't helped much. I dunno. Sthar just isn't scum. But he's tunneling a shit ton and has been abrasive and I wouldn't mind him not being in the game. And Trojan is just so obvtown there's no reason to lynch him. I really don't want to policy lynch on Day 4 but there's just no way we are lynching scum today. I really think I'm the best lynch.

*sigh*

Give me time to think and I'll have a vote down later. I'm caught up though.

[Egg]

No, he could have gotten away with it by saying there was no way I was moving and it was all my fault.

A mislynch helps scum more than a no lynch does. A no lynch is better for scum than a scum lynch.

Sthar is town. I might not think sol if Thor had flipped town. But sthar is town. That's obvious to me.

[Egg]

I said I'd vote someone.

Vote Boon

I don't feel comfortable voting town reads just yet. I think there is enough suspicion towards Boon that maybe we can make this happen.

[Egg]

Do you think that if he's town, being town contributed to the swap?

[Egg]

Really? I'd be more frustrated as the last scum with all these townies running around and pushing me as scum than I would as a town bodyguard who one or two players are scumreading.

[Egg]

all these townies running around and pushing me

one or two players

Fair... Still though. I don't get where the frustration comes from as town.

But yeah. I explained why it was scummy. It was survivalistic as fuck.

While you're at it, explain why town would only have one power role

If we get to massclaim and it turns out that way, ask me then.

[Egg]

It was survivalistic as fuck.

How is switching Zach in supposed to help the slot survive

Hi Zach why did that swap happen?

Actually wanted in since the start of this day phase. Jason was getting emotional and frustrated and even with the pressure coming off with recent events, he still wanted out of the game and our team feels like we're better off with me here considering everything that has happened.

Also the whole thing with the night actions I am going to take the blame for. I intervened because Jason thought STD might be scum and I thought it would be better to protect Obv town pie over maybe scum STD. So to some level it's not fair that he gets the heat for that because he actually was originally going to bodyguard STD and I convinced him to bodyguard Pie instead.

The whole thing is stupid anyway as I feel there's a very good possibility STD roleblocked us anyway. (If that did happen that means STD dies anyway and A KILL WENT THROUGH. That last part isn't a minor point.)

[Egg]

Fair... Still though. I don't get where the frustration comes from as town.

"I thought I made a good move"
"Fuck it didn't work out"
"Fuck they think I'm dumb"
"Fuck they think I'm scum"

You really don't see how that could be frustrating after doing what you think is the right move and thinking you solved the game overnight?

I wouldn't think that way but when you put it like that I guess someone more emotional than me could do that.

don't hold me to that
avatar bets are illegal

So are toxx clauses.

[Egg]

I'd also be antagonizing TH and Zach more as scum probably
eww god never let me self-meta again please

oh right btw EGG
I can never remember what a toxx clause is.

"If I'm scum, I'll X". It's a form of trust tells.

[Egg]

Can you remind me why you're so sure Boon is town?

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Sleepykrew

Sorry didn't realize we were so close and just woke up

[Egg]

Checking in. Was gonna claim but if people would rather sthar go first for whatever reason, I'm not gonna bitch and moan.

[Egg]

Fine by me

[Egg]

VT

I want Boon next

[Egg]

Vote Boon

The massclaim didn't change my views obviously

[Egg]

Boon I'm not voting Trojan. He's probably town

[Egg]

Trojan, that all makes a lot of sense. I found it very easy to get a strong town read on him in Joss Whedon Mafia.

[Egg]

That's insane. If that happened in my hometown, it would be a top story on local news for months lol

[Egg]

My town read in that game came on Day 1 before people were looking at me and before you claimed if I'm remembering correctly. Although, to be fair, the push on you kind of sucked and that contributed too.

[Egg]

I dunno. The Delta push thing might be a stretch. Delta and myself were probably the easiest non-Boon pushes and that's why she pushed us. But you're coming to the same conclusion as me and I agree with everything else you said so meh.

[Egg]

not much point in arguing over it

I agree

[Egg]

I would absolutely have no-killed, except that I'm pretty sure that

Mala's claim was intended to out the roleblocker and succeeded.

Why would they need to out him twice? What made it worth putting the game on the MYLO track?

Huh? Mala's claim didn't out the roleblocker, unless there's something I missed...

But the no kill did...

[Egg]

I'm trying to figure out why scum would leave STD alive if they had correctly figured out he was the RB on D2. given jason was a bogyguard and thus would (or rather, *should*) protect STD, I really do not think it would be worth it to no kill in that situation as opposed to shooting STD immediately - in other scenarios, it'd be worth it, but not when it'd get protected, I don't think. I'm not sure about this, though.

They needed STD alive for the mislynch on Bins to work so easily.

Only if they knew STD would target town...

[Egg]

If by "safe" you mean "risky as fuck" I agree

[Egg]

Especially for anyone who STD was scum reading. I'd have to go back and check to see who that was though

[Egg]

Boon who is on your team again? I want to know for future reference who sucks at reading me

[Egg]

Gif, ika, and zzyx. Lol ok.

[Egg]

Yeah I don't believe you about spending town tokens when you prefer scum

[Egg]

If Boon and Trojan are town, they are part of teams that got all town roles. Not really relevant to anything but I found that interesting.

[Egg]

So this is apparently Boon's favorite mafia moment according to his GTKAS (thanks Cheet):

- I claimed Town Tracker day 1 of Case of Doctor Pepper, and successfully no killed the last night in a group of 4 to win without having to confirm anyone.

So he's no killed before and is apparently proud of what it accomplished. Just thought that was worth mentioning

[Egg]

what do you make of the point that scum knew there was a town RB in the game after N1? you think they'd bus anyway and leave only one scum left when one scum vs. a town RB is essentially autoloss for them?

or am I just going wrong here

What makes you think they knew about an rb?

Maybe Boon just slipped that their role cop checked STD.

[Egg]

what do you make of the point that scum knew there was a town RB in the game after N1? you think they'd bus anyway and leave only one scum left when one scum vs. a town RB is essentially autoloss for them?

or am I just going wrong here

What makes you think they knew about an rb?

Mala was given a No Result on her role cop investigation.

Oh. Or that

[Egg]

Lmao

[Egg]

Pie, cheet wants me to tell you that Boon's last post reminds him of the Burning and Boon probably doesn't believe that's a slip and is trying whatever he can tokeep himself alive

[Egg]

Two things Cheet wants:
-Pie. Can you make two bullet points why everyone is town? (I'm guessing he means your town reads)
-Trojan. Reasoning for your vote.

Boon, I legit don't understand how acknowledging another possibility is a slip.

the scum team no killing probably was set up to frame me also.

If scum was sitting on your GTKAS looking for this, why did it not come out before now?

Trojan, I think something prompted my last post you quoted. Let me see if I can find it. Hard to remember something from almost 2 months ago but I vaguely do.

Preview edit: something like calling out a slip isn't something I can see someone ONLY doing as town. Stop trying to paint that as a lie from Cheet.

[Egg]

Ehhh I can't find it. I think it came from when she said he brought us to the meat of the game or whatever but didn't call it a town tell or anything and I just wanted her read on record but then I forgot about it

[Egg]

Boon, it's not changing wording. I'm giving you what Cheet said. You are responding. I am interpreting. And how does talking to Pie do anything for me towardsgetting you lynched. Pie is already voting you. If I was scum trying to manipulate, I'd probably talk to Trojan and Delta. Personally, I realize you and I are probably the next two lynches and I'm mostly ok with that because I think you are scum.

Also look at how he talks to Trojan. He's trying to subtly change TH mind about it, and at the same time, trying to look as townie as possible for the others while doing so

Look at Trojan's post. Of course I'm going to respond to it.

@Sthar - Get Antihero or TellTaleHeart to read me. If you are town, they'll surely see this as my town game.

Didn't Mala pull this with Pie and Mastin?

Seriously, though. If Egg really had any thought of that being a slip, how would me saying, "Mala was given a No Result on her role cop investigation", clear it up in any possible way?

It didn't. It showed another possibility that you would have been well aware of as scum.

[Egg]

Boon, Cheet says he wants to work with Pie because Pie is the town read who he has the most experience with and, to put it nicely and in my own terms, she's more logical than someone like you and he's scumreading you.

[Egg]

Boon you just highlighted exactly why I could have gotten away with not hammering Thor if I were scum.

This is exactly what scum would want to do...like come on..

Why? Pie is the one person townreading me.

LOL, he's been buddying Pie all game

Just like you're buddying Trojan and sthar right now?

[Egg]

(also, not hammering there and then a later Thor scumflip would've been pretty damning)

this is one of the reasons she thinks Boon is town, since Boon is known for lolquickhammering in most of his games; ergo, Boon-scum NOT hammering would be stupid. he wouldn't be able to get away with not hammering since everyone would figure it out and place him under scrutiny for it. on the other hand, Boon-town does whatever the hell he wants, so it makes more sense.

it's the opposite of Egg, who she thinks is town specifically bc

he's the type of player who she thinks could get away with letting it go to a no lynch as scum.

she also thinks Boon is acting a lot like late game in Drawn on Arrival, so there's meta reasons behind it.

You not hammering and let it go would have been scummy. People would have caught you, as you are the type who

could

get away. Also, again, I could have hammered there, and like this post says, the fact that I didn't hammer it should get me town points. I would have bussed the fuck out of Thor if I were scum with him.

Actually, your meta that you love to cling to makes me see that you could have hammered and ask "why didn't you?" And Occam's razor says the simplest possible answer why someone who hammers for no reason as town would avoid hammering is because it was hyour scumbuddy and it was still possible to lynch Trojan instead

[Egg]

Boon, saying that pushing your lynch if I was scum is the best move is BS. You and I are the clear 1v1 here and if I was scum I'm smart enough to realize I'd be dumb. Casting doubt on obvtowns like sthar, Trojan, and Delta would make more sense.

I want to be alive in the endgame...

Neither you or I is getting that or should want it as town. Should this game get to LYLO *knock on wood*, we are both lynch targets. I don't want to get lynched in LYLO so I'd kind of like to be dead before that. I'd be upset if you made it that far as well although that's mostly because if you are town I have to break out my tinfoil hat to figure out who is scum so it pretty much has to be you.

[Egg]

Lmao you're trying way too hard to stretch every word from me now.

[Egg]

Three days left. We need to start coming to a consensus.

Sthar, who's your top scumpick now, and why?

Delta, same question.

(I think I know what you both are going to say, but I'll wait until you make it official.)

Just lynch Boon tomorrow. If I have to, I'll self vote to avoid no lynch so we aren't in the same spot tomorrow minus the NK.

[Egg]

We have two lynches left and we know who they are. If Pie or sthar is scum, bussing Thor was the winning move regardless. No point in dragging this out.

[Egg]

Cheet said he'll do ISOs but he's busy right now. Fuck I'm drunk and talking politics and on mafia at the same time. Ok two windows helps. He's doing it tomorrow.

Oh and on my activity, it never has anything to do with my alignment even though that's usually how people seem to read me. It's my work schedule that dictates my activity. It's my work schedule. If I'm working 16 hour days on a job where I can't have my phone guess what. Im not gonna be online. But if I'm off for three weeks straight, I probably have more time to post. People think it's alignment indicative but lol what? Like as scum I wanna control the game and yeahI'm shit posting because of booze so fuck it. Oh right this game. It's me and Boon today and tomorrow and it should be a win as soon as Boon is dead anyway so fuck it I'm done with this mess of a fucking post and three kinds of vodka in one night and lol can we just lynch Boon and hopefully end the game now? Shit. Drunk rambling. Whatever. I just hope Boon is scum because that's what decides if we get a town win or not at this point. What did I even just say in this post? At least everything is probably spelled right. I just hope Boon is scum.

Sorry for this mess of a post lmao

[Egg]

Trojan, don't do that with deadline coming. No lynch is inexcusable right now and Mala probably didn't hardbus Day 2 after losing a scumbuddy Day 1.

[Egg]

To be fair, Ika wants Egg hardlynched, but GIF thinks egg/pie are both super town.

And Cheet wants you hardlynched and is the only one really talking to me. Where were you going with this?

Trojan, I see Pie responded to your Delta case, but I haven't read her post yet so I apologize if I'm repeating her. Your first point seems to be the classic mistake of seeing what you percieve to be poor play and calling it scummy. Why is his lack of a major push coasting scum rather than lazy town? Because what you describe seems like it could go either way. On your point about distancing from the wagons, why would he even do that when he can just push both as inevitible and coast to victory with those lynches if he is scum. Why say that the cases suck? How does that even make him look more town if he's doing it to both? What would he even push tomorrow if he's against both today? Hell, where's he even supposed to vote today if he's WKing both Boon and I?

Your attention has been lapsing as we have gotten closer to endgame? I'm not buying it.

Why? Mine has too and we can't both be scum.

I have no intention to no lynch. As for what happened day 2: I agree that after Thor's lynch, Mala didn't want to bus. But if Delta is scum, the bus makes sense. Mala and Delta were garnering almost all the votes at that point. What could they do? Having one scum (Mala) bus, and having the other scum (Delta) not bus, seems to be the right move.

They could both push the same mislynch to make it viable and then one of them jump off at the end of the day if they can. It wouldn't have been hard on Boon, sleepykrew, myself, or maybe even sthar.

But Delta DID try to push another wagon. He tried to lynch Boon. What did you think Mala was going to do? Also push Boon? Then Mala and Delta are tied together. Push someone else? Then everyone is going to wonder why neither Mala nor Delta is trying to push the other. If Delta is scum, Mala was kind of stuck there.

Mala pushing Boon would have been fine. No one expects scum to sheep their buddies these days.

if both of the scum are being wagoned, of course they need to do more than they usually would in order to get out of it. it would draw attention to them, yes, but it's still better than the alternative (going into N2 with only one scum left)

This is a good point.

Preview edit: I'll read those three posts in a bit

[Egg]

Honestly I don't see what's so bad about that post either. He's pissed at Pie for voting him which, as he says, isn't alignment indicitive. He's not OMGUSing or going over the top. He's just like why are you tunneling me so hard

[Egg]

Vote no lynch

[Egg]

Unvote

Tier wants the thread unlocked so he can use the multi quote thing.

V/LA until Thursday

[Egg]

Well then.

Before I do anything else, let me ask: Sthar and Egg, do either of you want to claim a power role at this point?

Nope.

I've been townreading Delta so unless I change my mind and think he's gambiting scum (unlikely but I don't take everything at face value), it's basically up to you two to pick between sthar and myself.

There's probably no point in no lynching now. Trojan will just be NK'd. At the very least, he's confirmed town barring Delta being lying town.

[Egg]

Actually, that makes sense. Trojan is confirmed town anyway because if you're scum, he can't be. But letting you track at least tells you who the scum is. Then it's just whether or not you're believed. So what I know will happen is you catch sthar killing or see that I don't which leaves only sthar and chances are I'll vote with you for a town win.

[Egg]

Delta if you are town I'm pretty sure you just saved this game for us.

[Egg]

Yeah I'm personally far from doubting you. Cheet agrees with me too.

[Egg]

Sthar, while I was V/LA (I probably didn't announce it here but I've been in Vegas for about a week), Tier put up a big post in my team's thread and wanted to know why you were looking for town power roles here. I've bolded it for reference:

I'm trying to figure out why scum would leave STD alive if they had correctly figured out he was the RB on D2. given jason was a bogyguard and thus would (or rather, *should*) protect STD, I really do not think it would be worth it to no kill in that situation as opposed to shooting STD immediately - in other scenarios, it'd be worth it, but not when it'd get protected, I don't think. I'm not sure about this, though.

This.

UNLESS (tinfoil hat time) somebody decided to go all-in and gamble on outguessing jason

and

getting him lynched. I don't even want to think about the odds on that one, but it explains all the scum actions pointing to a high EV play. That makes me interested in the jason wagon, but I'm having a hard time reviewing the wagon movement since it apparently happened entirely between votecounts.

sthar, I can trust you, right? >.>

No? No shortcuts this game, you need to look at my play and decide if it's town or not. I'm a little disconcerted that nobody in thread is wondering why

I was looking for town power roles.

I

think it should be obvious, but apparently nobody else was doing it, so...

He also wanted to know what you think of the NK

[Egg]

Sthar, ignore all of that. Tier isn't worried about it now that Trojan is confirmed town.

[Egg]

Cool. No lynch, no more effort. I was right, Egg's scum.

^lol. But you have no choice except to push that at this point.

[Egg]

Your post was almost equally meaningless and empty. The only info we got from it is that you have no doubt in your mind Delta is being truthful.

[Egg]

The other option is that I screamed for a no lynch only to bus in the last minute before deadline, bussed again on Day 2, and killed Pie who was townreading me as well and could have even been set up as a paranoia lynch.

Also this is a blatant misrep of your situation:

 the only person with a solid townread on me

I was townreading you and was gonna have a hell of a time deciding between you and Trojan if Delta was killed (I was already pretty sure Delta was town due to Mala's actions). I also don't remember you being mentioned as a likely lynch or anything. If you do end up lynched, Delta's delayed claim is probably the reason for town's win. You were in pretty decent shape before that considering your buddies were lynched the first two days.

[Egg]

Trojan, sthar is actually right about one thing. You have Delta, your team, and even Delta's team to work with. Yes, use those resources, but the decision is yours as much as Delta's if we don't no lynch for whatever reason. I still feel like that's the right play though.

Sthar, Pie was town reading me for the entire game. Any possible scum read was probably more PoE than anything.

But even if you weren't, why would I kill pie over either of Delta or TH? If I kill one of them, pie helps me mislynch you for the win.

I'm going based on memory here, but I think Pie was townreading me more than Delta was. Still, Pie was enough of a universal town read aside from paranoia that the kill makes sense for anyone to make. I was mostly just saying that your WIFOM defense could be applied to myself just as much as you. You being scum is far from a crazy thought and your attempt to paint it that way should tell Delta and Trojan a lot.

2341 by sthar just made Trojan's point for him. You weren't hardbussing mala if you were pushing me.

2345 by Trojan is right. Pie was an obvkill for anyone unless they thought paranoia was the way to go.

Trojan, that last post is textbook scumbuddy wagon reaction.

[Egg]

1276 by sthar is what I'm referring to on that last line.