Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[mastin2]

Hello.
I'm on page one.

Choice: One

. I'm 80% certain this is the right choice.

Bane: Titus

. Because I see no scenario in which knowing her sign is a bad thing.

[mastin2]

he couldn't stop talking about how much he loves being scum and all these evil mustache twirling plans he had in mind for future scum games, so...

Sounds a lot like me. Unfortunately, my team was more focused on getting specific

games

(we got every game we wanted, and positioned pretty much exactly as we desired too) rather than specific alignments, so here I am stuck as not only town, but a walking deadwoman of a town player.

[mastin2]

Choosing between One and Two seems to be kinda irrelevant to me, honestly, but I'd prefer Two to One.

While I need to debate this to be sure, I'd massively, MASSIVELY prefer One.

[mastin2]

Actually, UT's anger does feel a little off, given that the only catalyst for it was someone disagreeing with him. I guess it's possible that UT has extreme anger issues, but it doesn't seem particularly likely.

Not the town-UT *I* knew.

[mastin2]

Actually, I'm an idiot.
I got that backwards.

Choice: Two

.

This

is the superior option, pretty sure.
Sorry.

[mastin2]

I've thought about it and I really believe that Choice 1 is better. I think it has great potential to confirm people as town where Choice 2 wouldn't. I'm happy to consider arguments for Choice 2 in the meantime though.

How about that Choice 2, while not confirming players from the word of the mod, can still confirm players through word of the player, while making said protection stronger, meaning town potentially lives longer?

(Very important, that.)

[mastin2]

Because you're not actually discussing the game.

My team's quite active! Just not on what I need at the moment.

[mastin2]

I still want to powerbane Mastin and am looking forward to walls about it!

Tough. All you're getting is that Baning me is a Very Bad Idea (TM). I have very good reason for this.

That said, Grey's probs-right about TSO.

[mastin2]

Kinda surprised Mastina is not here yet.

Weekend V/LA, work, plus dealing with rl affairs. (Schedule conflict. Nasty.)

Builds up.

Also, going to say that I agree with the assessment of my buddies on DV more or less, but what said assessment IS will wait.

[mastin2]

What do you think of baning Mastina?

Seriously, don't make me emphasize this more. I'm already a dead woman walking; don't speed it up.

[mastin2]

So what do YOU think of Zar/Tammy interaction? TvT? TvS? Scum theatre?

Probably has scum involved. 1 or 2 makes the difference in my other reads, though. And not really stating an opinion on which of the three scum combos I think is most likely. I don't think it's townVtown is all.

[mastin2]

(Also, vezok's town.)

[mastin2]

I really don't like Mastina lurking.

FFS, you have NO clue how much this argument ticks me off.

You have to

actually be on site

for it to be lurking.
Which I am easily-established to NOT be, for quite a large period of time, to the point where on weekends it often will look like I've siteflaked.
This game started.
I wasn't here.
I got here as soon as I could.

Really.
Go into my post history.
Look at the timetables I typically post at.
Weekend posts are rare, sporadic at best.
Posting Monday Night late enough that it's technically 1+ am on Tuesdays, and similar time for Tuesdays technically being Wednesdays, and lateposting each weekday?
Extremely common. You can verify this going back at least two, three months. (Heck! Look at the times I posted during my modded game. When posting on the weekend, my updates were less effective and more brutal. I also deliberately orchestrated nights to avoid ending on the weekend save for the one that did, specifically because nights ending on the weekend were something I knew would be disastrous because I wouldn't be around to do anything more than just open the thread.)

I come when I come. I come as often as I can come. No, literally. I give up hours of my freetime every single day for mafia. If I gave more than I do, then I'd destroy myself. I am not omnipresent. As much as I'd like to be (especially when I get groundbreaking thoughts I want to post about

right. then

.), we don't have that tech yet, and work and such comes first.

And yet, in spite of this.
Entirely null.
Thing that is out of my control.
In multiple games.
This

exact

point.
Keeps.
coming.
up.

I don't like it. I hate it. But YES. Believe it or not. I have a real life, outside mafiascum, difficult as that may be to process given how much time I pour into here. You have my attention whenever I can give it. But I cannot. Literally cannot. Give it all the time.

[mastin2]

I wouldn't put it past her to WIFOM everyone by not spending tokens on herself.

It was basically far, FAR more important to get the right games than the right alignment as far as I was concerned. Getting into THIS game was my request, because I've been playing extensively in Large Themes. As town, I typically either die early (this game, duh), or live long enough to give the scum a beating. I also figured that if I got scum, it would be a goldmine. I had my strategy all laid out. I had everything planned out. I didn't tell my team what it was in the off chance I got town (because I was feeling scum, just

feeling

it. Haha. THAT worked out well ) so that I could use it in a future game instead, but basically, I knew that if I did well as scum in THIS game, if I brought my A-game, then I wouldn't just be showing off to the members of this game--I'd be demonstrating, proudly, for the first time in a full year, the full extent of my scumgame...to the ENTIRETY of mafiascum, effectively: I'd have fooled not 16 players, but 64, almost all of them being big-name players.

...And then I not only drew town, but dead woman walking town.

[mastin2]

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

By pretending he's me.




(Also, for the curious, yes, it is in fact 3 am as I post this. And no, I am not done with my site duties yet. And yes, I do get up at...oh, I believe tomorrow it's 10 AM. Might be 9, I forget; I'll figure it out when my alarm goes off. When I say I come when I can...I REALLY mean, I come when I can...and that the times I can come are frequently late at night, VERY late at night.)

[mastin2]

Bulb, if you're town then I appreciate the advice, but I currently think you're scum for a number of reasons, not limited to you telling me what to do.

I have words to say on this.
I don't want to say them right now.

[mastin2]

even Mastin thinks we should lynch Mastin!

Quite the opposite. Deadwoman by SCUM hands.

If I'm a deadwoman by town hands, we deserve a Tales-styled loss.

[mastin2]

I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.

Two gives double the protection on a person, extending the life of a successful protect.
A player, be it that person or an external benefactor, can claim it.

Plus ~reasons~.

[mastin2]

You think Zar/Tammy is possible scum on scum? :V

Tammy

should

be the first person to tell you I'd be a fool

not

to consider it.

Also, Cheetory is town.

[mastin2]

You think Zar/Tammy is possible scum on scum? :V

Tammy

should

be the first person to tell you I'd be a fool

not

to consider it.

Do you have any reasons to suspect this based on reality rather then FUD paranoia?

Sort

-of.
Tammy could be scum.
Zar could be scum and has fairly decent chances of being scum.
I do not think their interactions are such where Tammy

must

be town if Zar is scum. I can, very easily, plausibly see this as scum-scum distancing. Do I think it is, no. Do I think it ISN'T, though, that is ALSO a no. It's a, "in the back of my mind" type thing, stronger than paranoia but weaker than actual proper suspicion, where I'll have my eye on it the entire time and will not pass judgement until I'm sure.

(Yes, I'm way back here.)

[mastin2]

The

Choice

has been made. The effect of protection is to prevent one kill on the target and to inform the target if a kill on them is prevented this way.

(This is why you DON'T leave things like this in hammering range, PARTICULARLY when I haven't been around to read, because no, when I cast my vote, I do NOT check to see. Very much ticked off at this.)

CES argues that we should use the Bane on a player who is hard to read (vezok is his example).

Vezok is ridiculously easy to read; he's town.

TOWN

Tammy
Deasvail
GiF
Titus

MAYBE TOWN

Marquis. - I don't like the stuff Deas likes. Will ultimately probably defer to GiF
Actiondan. - possibility of scum theater maybe, but otherwise leaning a little town. have a question in to my team about the interaction with UT
T S O - not having a strong read on him is concerning me a little
Gammagooey. - will be soliciting from my team to clarify this read
ChannelDelibird.
Cheetory6.
Mastin2. - this will be a nacho-read probs. Leaning slight town on my own.
Shadoweh. - want input from my team

NOT SO TOWN

Bulbazak.
UT
Vezok
Zar. - here for now because Tammy/Empire.

WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU?

Antihero.
Aronis.
Espeonage.

This is very, very sheepable.

[mastin2]

CeeDeeBee, GreyICE is challenging you on CES saying vezok is hard to read. He says vezok is easycake biscuits to read and wants to know why your team is saying otherwise. I generally agree with this, vezok is pretty straightforward.

Grey should totally swap into this game just so that he and I can synch up without having to go through a filter.

Butyeah, obviously agreed.

I've finished reading page 20, but at the risk of falling further behind at our current rate, I want to call it a night at there and resume from 21 tomorrow. It

is

3 AM right now, and honestly I'm not sure I have the stamina to read 18 additional pages tonight. I should have additional time tomorrow, though.

[mastin2]

Hey, know that spot of page 21? Still there. Briefly coming here, though, to say:

I honestly don't trust anyone enough right now to give them Boon.

Esp is scum regardless of what his alignment is.

Just saying.

And now, if you don't mind, I have a TON of reading to do.

[mastin2]

(And worse...I'm going to be mostly alone. See, team mafia aint exactly a team if you catch my drift. :/)

[mastin2]

Hi.
I'm here.
I basically am not in the game aside from blind flailing.
I wake up in 4.75 hours (it's 1 AM and I get up at six), so no promise of getting caught up, but my life IS looking like it's FINALLY, FINALLY getting into the clear, so I should be able to make sense of this stuff soon.

[mastin2]

So I'm here, but I'm not really here, you could say.
I certainly don't have the strength of four players at my back.

I'm going to be the sorry soul who did absolutely nothing but got nightkilled early-on via policy alone.
(Yes, I will try to fix that.)

[mastin2]

Nacho thought the interactions between DV and Marquis felt off.

Back pathetically long ago (by which, I mean, in the first 20 pages), my group (myself included) shared this sentiment, though in my case the emphasis was on DV.

Also, not lynching Tammy and going to probably just lynch anyone pushing her.

Vote: Espeonage

.
Just to put that out there.

Oh and did I mention I'm still horrifically behind having not read anything except random pieces? I'm applying a, "keep reading the current material and scratch the older stuff until I have the time" policy right now. When I have the time, I'll read the 40-page gap for all that important stuff, but right now, not so much; staying caught up is far more important.

[mastin2]

(6)

TellTaleHeart:

Titus, Empire, Tammy, Aronis, Marquis, vezokpiraka [L-4]
(1)

Bulbazak:

Gammagooey
(1)

GuyInFreezer:

ChannelDelibird
(1)

Tammy:

Espeonage
(1)

Aronis:

Bulbazak
(0)

Gammagooey:

(Bulbazak)

That TTH wagon looks bad.
I remember thinking vezok was town, so not going there, and Tammy I'm assuming at this point to just be town, but this is just a whole bunch of to me.

...Incidentally, the (1) voters aren't so great, either. Gamma's probtown but I'm not feeling a Bulba wagon; CDB's okay but I've got nuthin' on GIF, Esp I voted for good reason, and Bulba's not great though I'm at least

interested

in his Aronis vote. (His prior Gamma vote doesn't look good, though.)

Not Voting I cut out since, y'know, daystart.

[mastin2]

I'm not willing to disclose my read on Bulba at this time to it not being that strong and I want to be able to keep a close eye on his behavior for a while longer before being 100% sure.

Okay. Could be wrong. But I

think

I see something in this that'd make Aronis town.

[mastin2]

For what it's worth: the more I read, the better I feel about voting Esp.

[mastin2]

Also, 1458 makes me seriously not want to touch Bulba for quite a while. Not off the hook, per se, but a wide, wide berth. It's not nearly enough by itself for me to lock down a read on him. (If I was actually fully in the game right now I probably could do exactly that.) But I'm just gonna go with my superficial gut reaction to it, which was that it's town, and even if that's wrong I'm sticking to it for now.

[mastin2]

Simply put, DV is on my team's list of expected nightkills, so detecting him is suspicious.

Is

that

it?

...Seriously?
THAT?
It?

Investigating Deas.Vail.



I'm sorry. Can't help it. Yeah, the TTH wagon is BS.

[mastin2]

He was scun and doesn't like playing scum.

True he doesn't like it.

Doesn't mean he can't play it, though.

Seriously, the TTH wagon is just...bad.
Like, I realize it's not gonna have a load of scum on it, but that doesn't automatically make it good, either.
Cheetory I think is town, CDB is town enough, but their joining only made the wagon all the more worse.

[mastin2]

Also, with a little consulting:
VOTE: Shadoweh

Not gonna support that, either, since I remember GI's reads lining up nicely with my own early-on. I want to keep Shadow around for the time being to see more of that.

[mastin2]

Also,
VOTE: Espeonage.
Official votetag upgrade.

[mastin2]

So.

Vezok's town.
Tammy's town.
TTH is probtown.
Shadow I'm not touching.
Bulbazak's getting a pass.
Aronis may be town.
Cheetory is town enough.
Gamma looks fine.
CDB is good enough for now.
Marquis is kinda...ehhhh.
DV is just...ehhhhhhhhhh.
Empire's scum.
Espeonage is scum.


Leaves ActionDan, GIF, Titus, TSO, and UT to sort.

[mastin2]

The ambivalence in the read itself and the failure to pursue any other leads while soft supporting the wagon under the banner of "vezok got results" is a position I think scum are more likely to take.

Not disagreeing.

I just don't think that Shadow's scum who took it.
Other players, though, that're off your wagon? Very well may be.

[mastin2]

We need to talk on some of those reads Mastina.

Well I'm not saying they're gonna be great, given they were made almost entirely off of four pages of content with vague memories of earlygame thrown in, but they feel fairly good to me, so while we can talk, probs just gonna go with my flow. (Unless my teammates yell at me that I'm being stupid. )

[mastin2]

you do realize that scum will have been detecting their likely nightkill targets if they want to not have 3 different actions all spent on killing a single person right?

Sure thing!

I'm still laughing.

[mastin2]

Mastin: Talk to me about Gamma.

Pure gut. Nothing there but ~feels~ of not being scum, just probably not pushing in the right spots.

[mastin2]

Can you please hit 1534??

There was nothing for me to say about it.

I think scum are scum; I don't think they're any more nor less likely to attack a player because of another scum doing the same if both are. Nor do I think they would plan an attack--it's theoretically possible, but not exactly probable. That doesn't mean they haven't done the attack, though.

[mastin2]

I'd also like mastin to explain her strong reaction to the reasons for the TTH wagon considering her lack of engagement with the game. You're acting like someone who has a strong handle on the game and is very confident that her views > everyone else's in 1505, yet this sentiment is not shared by other posts.

It's a gift.

Sometimes, I really can come in, look at stuff, and go, "Yep. That's X."
X in this case being a BS wagon on a town player.

If I knew how it worked, I'd tell you. But while I might not have a perfect handle on the game, I'm ~feeling good~.

[mastin2]

Mastin: Talk to me about Gamma.

Pure gut. Nothing there but ~feels~ of not being scum, just probably not pushing in the right spots.

^

[mastin2]

Leaves ActionDan, GIF, Titus, TSO, and UT to sort.

(BTW, tried this via iso. Dan and GIF gave me nothing. TSO I think can give something, but I skimmed too much so gave me nothing, either. Haven't bothered with Titus or UT, but needless to say, I'm not getting reads on 'em any time soon.)

[mastin2]

Mastin: Talk to me about Gamma.

Pure gut. Nothing there but ~feels~ of not being scum, just probably not pushing in the right spots.

^

My team wants me to sheep this, not that they've seen this comment specifically, but they told me to find a player whose reads you generally agree with. Vote their gut read and see what the hell happens and not to do too much forcing (but for town reads).
So yes, this logically sucks, but I'm doing this because, go team!
VOTE: Gamma

Uhh. Titus?

That was me saying Gamma's town.

[mastin2]

If you want to sheep me, though, there's a nice shiny Esp wagon to join!

[mastin2]

I feel horrible doing this, but I have to say it.
Empire's replace-out wasn't a town one.
singer's content is not town content.
That read's not a holdover of a read on Empire. I mean that singer's content simply isn't town, in addition to her slot not having been town in any of its iterations.

I have the same feelings regarding the TTH wagon as I did with the Shos wagon in Unbalanced 2. It's a bad lynch.

Then you should have the same feels about Esp as you did about Toon!

[mastin2]

For those who don't get it, yes, I am saying Esp is scum, like Toon was scum. The push there seems good.
The push on TTH is horrible, and yes, Bulb is right in his reasoning, too. (Incidentally, it increases the townread there, so IF--and this is becoming an increasingly HUGE if--Bulb's scum, his defense is a smart one.) His reasoning is (almost) my reasoning. The push is just bad, and the people that supported the wagon are mostly bad.

[mastin2]

I don't want to just sheep mastin [though I'm honestly kind of feeling tempted to]. q.q

Hey, worked in Drawn on Arrival! (Admittedly every time I get arrogant and

think

my play is great it ends up only being mediocre, and right now I'm feeling arrogant and think my play is great therefore it is almost certainly mediocre and not great, butstill, can't help but feel like I'm doing well. But if I had to choose a game this'd be closer to, DoA would be closer than Sabotage. I'm probably not right on everything. But I can feel I'm right on more than I'm wrong on.)

@mastin, you think that scum was trying for a quicklynch here?

No, I think that wagon has one or two scum on it and no more. I'd need to check the names on it to be sure, though.

1. Why do you feel horrible for voicing your opinions/reads?

Because calling someone scum after they replace out including thinking their replace-out post was scumposting is a horrible, horrible thing and yet here I am?

I don't really have any content to contribute right now with what little I've read and how far behind I am.

On the contrary. You gave plenty of content. It just all screamed scum to me. (Also, tangent, but I got a read on things in four pages.)

If you'd like to read more into my posts than there is, I suppose that's your prerogative.

Oh, there's certainly more to your posts than you think there is.

I need to interact with people to figure out the game and I don't see you positioning yourself in a way I can do that with you having shut down that flow of communication before it even started.

On the contrary, the one, and ONLY discussion I shut down is talks of lynching TTH. (For good reason.) Other than that, I've actually done more in 48 hours for opening talks up than the rest of the playerlist.

Let's just be more specific here Mastin. The not town content coming from Singer is her attempt to try to limp wristedly push the TTH wagon back into the spotlight based on "information". As I've said, the TTH wagon was a clusterf-, and using it for information will probably lead to more mislynches if scum are pushing that angle. I could see Singer trying to promote lynching those nervous about the speed of the wagon, rather than those on the wagon pushing for crap reasons. Besides, if she really wanted to lynch someone based on interaction and who would give the most information, she'd be angling for my lynch.

Well, my reasoning basically goes like this:
Zar when he was playing looked like scum.
Empire, through Zar as a proxy, looked like he was playing scum.
The switch-in looked like a scum-motivated switch.
Empire, from what I've gathered, looks like scum.
His replace-out looked like scum-faking-what-should-be-done-by-town. (I know this all too well. But I feel terrible about it--if I'm right, it's not a good accusation and if I'm wrong it's an even worse one to make.)
singer's posted plenty of content, contrary to her insistence she hasn't, but none of it has been town.

I just don't see the town in there.

[mastin2]

Mastin, usually you and I don't do a lot of direct interaction in games. I think the rest of this game day could benefit by being an exception.

Then talk to me. My reads have been posted. singer's stronger scum than ever before. Other updates I'll mention as they happen (my read on DV continues to degrade for instance), so it's really on your end.

[mastin2]

Can you please understand for the love of all that is holy that Empire is town and your gut is broken?

A player voting TTH holds no respect saying this to me, vezok.

Dead serious.
A player not voting TTH, even a scumread of mine, even if a player I've never met nor heard of, saying the exact same thing, holds more respect than you who I know and respect and think town. Because of a TTH vote.

[mastin2]

mastin is a derp, but what's new.

(Says the person who just said vezok could be scum. And witnessed me nail basically every anti-town in Drawn on Arrival save for one who died via NK during the night that was null. I do do derping, but no matter how much derping I do, and no matter how mediocre my play, I am not myself a derp.)

[mastin2]

(7)

TellTaleHeart:

Titus,

Empire

,

Tammy

,

Aronis, Marquis

,

vezokpiraka

, Cheetory6

(ChannelDelibrd)

[L-3]

Yeah, two scum max.

[mastin2]

(10)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail

, Gammagooey, Shadoweh, Cheetory6, Titus,

vezokpiraka

, GuyInFreezer, Aronis,

Tammy

, T S O
Also, the following people tried to cast bane votes on me after the hammer: CDB, UT

This, incidentally, is the strongest proof I have that my reads aren't perfect. Gamma's a townread, Shadow's getting a pass, Cheet looks town enough, I'm not interested in pursuing Titus, so really that leaves GIF, Aronis (who was a townread but I admit Bulba's sparked my interest in) and TSO for there to be scum aside from DV.

Not the best of odds.
I mean, logically, it makes no sense for there to be only one scum on the wagon.
But that's what my gut says.

Or that if there is a second, it's GIF. But that's just POE on thinking not-Aronis and not-TSO and not-the-people-I'm-passing. Thus the one. (Gut.)

[mastin2]

*Addendum: add UT to the list and make it GIF/UT.

[mastin2]

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF, Mastin2, Shadoweh]

I'm gonna be "that guy". (Well, girl. But the expression is 'that guy', so let's assume it's *generic* 'guy', rather than gendered 'guy', i.e. "hey guys" to a group of mixed genders.)

Yes,

that

one.
See that banner under DV's name?
I'm going there.

I am town. (Not just town, walking deadwoman town.)
TTH is town.
Bulbazak is town.
Shadow isn't as certainly town but probably is.
This list could have scum (Dan, Aronis, GIF), and probably does (town who's only mostly off, or scum who's bussing, either way works), but likely only one, two at absolute most and not particularly probable to be more than one. (Zero is possible.)

This is not scumhunter-of-the-year-level play.
It is, however, scumplayer-that's-darn-good play.

[mastin2]

Town: Titus, Tammy, Deevees, vezok, TSO

Like.
People keep telling me Empire was town.
And I see that slot, and I just go..."nope".

People keep telling me DV is town.
And I wonder what the heck the town is smoking.

[mastin2]

AS SCUM, you're trying to trick the town, or throw shit around, or blend in, or make enough noise that people get distracted, or whatever scum-playing tactic one might have, right?

Hey, singer.

Guess what I think you've been doing ever since you came into the game?

[mastin2]

are you guys reading mastin as town?

No duh, and Nacho owes me BIG time.

[mastin2]

Titus and DV are god tier town to us atm. So is Tammy.

I'll give you Titus. I like what I'm seeing muchly. So too can I give you Tammy; I not only trust you there, but agree.

But I just cannot.
CanNOT.
See DV as town. The very post you cited (or was it Tammy, doesn't matter) as being town is so choked full of

wrongness

that it alone would be enough. Given the rest of what I've seen...this just feels like Tales-DV to me.

Why are you not touching Shadoweh? Why are you giving Bulba a pass?

Bulba-pass has been upgraded to full-on Bulba townread. What he's doing is just town. Shadow I'm not touching because of GreyICE mainly I admit.

What are your thoughts about the UT/Singer interactions?

Singer is scum. UT *might* be, but probably isn't.

[mastin2]

With regards to the content you felt I had given at that point, what exactly did you have a problem with?

Everything?

Like.
You said it yourself.
Scum are trying to trick town, throw shit around, blend in, and make enough noise that people get distracted.
You've thrown shit around, attempted to blend in, made enough noise to try and distract people, and I believe in an effort to trick the town.

[mastin2]

Also, it's far too early to do VCA without a flip.

But we have the flips of the relevant wagons, in essence anyway. Bulba is town. I'm not letting go of that any time soon. TTH is town. I'll Mastin Gambit to save her if I have to. Some players like Tammy and yourself are town and thus the people on the wagon can be narrowed down.

I can extract information from even the tiniest fractions of the game. You saw me fake it in that one Mini Theme game--but that was me faking what I would have instantly been able to tell you. Were I town that game, I could've told you that you and shos were town. I wasn't, but if I was, I would have, and would have been right. So here, I've done the same thing.

The only question is: Are you emulating what I do naturally or as scum?

Pfft. Titus, I've been doing this sort of thing since before you were site-born. I've refined it to an art.

I really need you to be held accountable for the specifics, particularly the three-four posts I made before the first time you addressed me.

Okay.
To put it into words.
Every post you make feels like it's filtered and fake.
This is in dissonance to my memory of you as town when in a game and out-of-depth. When you were town in a game yet out of your depth, you came across as being genuine. I thought the town was moronic for lynching you. Your posting seemed so natural.
And yet, here it feels stilted. Everything you say feels calculated. It feels like you're trying to figure out how to blend in, particularly the earlier posts, and getting better at it as you go along, but still notably having a "dissonance" with what should be there from town.

I can't point to any specific sentence, or any specific post. It's the general flow of your posting. It feels forced, guided artificially.

Zar's posting felt fake in the same manner. When he engaged, it felt like a dead repeat of Unbalanced, even, in that he got a fair amount of heat justifiably for stances that were odd. Not feeling, well, not feeling like they come from a player that's trying to find scum, and rather, coming from a player trying to hide that they're scum.

The switch-in to Empire felt like damage control, and Empire to me felt like scum posting a solid scumgame, but still scum all the same: methodical, meticulous, well-planned-out, logical, and doing his best to fill in the inconsistencies so that people would brush over him, forget about him, and allow him some breathing room to work.

And then you come in, and it's like you were directed to continue his work, using the same basic principles.

The same gift that lets me see this, unfortunately, is also a curse in that I'm fully aware I'm speaking in vague talks without specifics. But I literally can't pin any down. That fills me with the emotion of "struggle". (Yes, emotion of struggle. It makes sense in my mind, okay? It's not quite frustration. It's frustration, confusion, anger, stress, sadness, and so much more. Basically, it's me, just standing somewhere mute, maybe bumbling, giving the appearance of being someone mentally handicapped, trying to convey a message yet having no words for it, gesturing blindly and fiercely in a futile attempt to compensate for the failure in language.)

[mastin2]

Gut reaction to mastin's posts is town, but I'll reassess tomorrow.

No duh.

So mastin is town rite

Not just town, but a walking deadwoman of town. That much a beacon of town.

mastin has been a null to null-scum read to me prior to last night and Nacho hasn't mentioned her at all so far.

I get not townreading me before I came in to declare TTH town, but after that?
You had any fraction of a doubt?

ffery, I am disappoint.

TTH - scumeread

TTH is town.
Period.

Honestly if people let go of their TTH scumread, the game makes a whole lot more sense.
(I'd argue similarly about a DV townread, but I digress.)

And if it wasn't clear enough, btw, that puts my thoughts at, more or less:

GIF is my best current guess for fourthscum, off of general feels and POE. (Marquis and Aronis, however, both remain in my eye.)
Esp is a scumread.
DV is a scumread. (The two are probably interchangeable.)
And singer is my strongest scumread.

[mastin2]

mastin I'm not townreading tth so you declaring her town doesn't do much for me. Same with bulba.

But they dang-well better SHOULD.

And your scumreads are also a mixed bag of meh.

Again I repeat.
I can't respect this statement from someone scumreading TTH.
Not even you.
(Mastin. Gambit.)

I'm reading you on the basis of other stuff, not your reads.

Statement still stands. IMMEDIATELY after I came in it should've been obvious. No need for reads. My play the second I started playing the game should've made it obvious.

[mastin2]

Yo. Apologies for this, because I know I should post tonight technically, but I'm dead tired; I'm in no condition to read 12 pages. I SHOULD, however, have enough time tomorrow (at least two hours if my math is right) to catch up here. For reference, that's back here, meaning it'll be a little bit of work on my end but you most certainly can look forward to it. (I'm pretty much 95% certain I have the time. But even if not, all that'd mean would be late-night Tuesday, or absolute worst case, Wednesday. In any case, content soon, just not tonight. I need sleep.)

[mastin2]

You're not going to strong-arm me into a townread. Sorry.

I don't need to.
What I do need is to strongarm you into dropping the scumread and ceasing ANY and all interactions that the scumread may cause. (That is, anything TTH has said to make you think a player's town/scum, and anything a player has said about TTH that has made you think they are town/scum, off of TTH being scum.)

And do me a favor, relay a four-word message to Nacho.
Just four.

Mastin. Gambit.
Target: TTTH.

See what he says after you relay that to him.

[mastin2]

I changed my mind. I don't want to lynch mastin.

No duh.
I'm a walking deadwoman. Lynching me is basically impossible. (Well, unless people go all Tales on me. )

VOTE: Bulbazak

I am never letting this go through, either.

I don't care if Bulbazak is scum, he's so town that he's town.

Mastin - If you're going to push for a TTH town read so hard that everyone who suspects her is dumb, I'll need something better than you can't respect anyone who would scum read her. I see really no in thread reason to call her town at all.

Because the whole aura of this is just wrong.

Like, maybe in a multiscum game TTH could be scum.

But in an explicitly single-faction game, with not even a serial killer?

HECK no. Everything about the wagon was just...

wrong

.
The targeting of DV is, contrary to what is being said, an extremely TOWN choice.
The wagon sucks.
And TTH is claiming a PROVABLE role given time to boot.
Something which, quite frankly, you'd have to be an absolute, utter MORON to think scum would ever fake. That's basically scum condemning themselves to have a set expiration date when their conftownness turns out to not be so conftown.

I don't need to read a single thing from their play.
Everything about TTH tells the story for me.

[mastin2]

There are problems with Bulbazack and with Mastin, but I'm going to go do something else.

Hey, Bulbazak.
Hey, TTH.
Let's invite Titus, too.

Want to make a "bloody insane townbloc" made up of people who are, apparently, well...yaknow?

[mastin2]

(If that wasn't clear, those three are basically my strongest townreads, that I also have synergy with. Tammy, for instance, is a townread that the synergy isn't there, and until Nacho gets his ass in here and relays his thoughts, ffery's not synergistic with me at all right now.)

[mastin2]

@mastin: if you are town and yoi defended scum so hard they couldn't be lynch you will feel my wrath.

And I'd willingly take it.

That won't happen, though. What WILL happen is TTH is town, and if anyone biased their other reads with her as scum reevaluates, they get a much clearer view of the game.

Never underestimate the power of a townie-who-is-thrown-in. It is, after all, how I did stuff like nail 3/4 scum in a Fire & Ice game, and nail

the entirety of the scumteam in my first post

of Underground Mafia. I did it back then, I still have it in me to do it now.

[mastin2]

What changed between these two posts wrt mastin and why are you scumreading CDB so heavily but GiF isn't even in your lynchpool if you see a similar issue with both of them?

(Because she's scum and GIF might be her partner.)

[mastin2]

it feels like the priority is on getting the point across, not in convincing someone she's right.

Btw, the basic cause for this is pretty obvious: I don't need to convince people I'm right; reputation does that for me. When I say, "I'm MASTIN", the players who play with me frequently and call me friend take note of what I'm saying. What I need to do, with their attention, then, is to convey the point of my posting, to get the message across.

It's arrogant-as-hell, yes, and I'd be the first to admit I'm likely not perfect, but again. I FEEL like I'm in the right, ESPECIALLY given the TTH-is-definitely-not-scum factor. So while I may not have all the answers. I may not have things nailed 100% down. Following me's better than following the majority of other players.

Which is one reason I'm trying to get a townbloc getting and just invited Bulb, TTH, and Titus to it: they're the people I'm currently trusting to help refine my reads (you mighta noticed that Bulb's posting on Aronis made me reconsider my townread there), in lieu of my team not keeping up with this game (can't really blame them). To be in the townbloc, you don't even need to have your thoughts match up as well as theirs do mine--All you need is some basic assumptions, those being, the members I have invited into the townbloc already are all town. (You also need to not be a scumread of mine. )

[mastin2]

I am fine with Singer CDB or Espy. I will vote the biggest wagon.

I would

prefer

not CDB, since I don't really feel that wagon.

Esp or singer, though, are both fine.

...

That being said

, though, as established, I actually think that Esp is less likely to be scum than singer, so if I had a preference between the two, it'd actually be singer, sooooooooooooooooo...
VOTE: singersigner.

[mastin2]

@Gamma

Nacho wants to know what the fuck that singer vote was. he's calling it garbage.

Back off from Gamma. He's not a SOLID, townbloc read, but he is in fact a townread.

GiF I'm not feeling so good about you being town lately. It makes me inexpressibly sad.

(That's because he's probably not.)

[mastin2]

When singer flips town I'm going to have all the people who voted her move to tth.

And when she flips scum I'm going to have all the people who voted TTH instead of her work with me to nail the other scum.

@GiF, I guess ActionDan, Gamma, and Espy. That's as hard as you are going to get. For singer to be scum and have no one defend her, that means scum are mist likely wagoned themselves or trying to push a CW. Dan is included because he has done nothing and that is consistent with two buddies being wagoned. Am I at all confident? Nope. This is my gun to my head scum team if Singer's scum.

^My reasoning is something akin to this, though not exactly. TTH was the town wagon, and people continuing to push there = the counterwagon. The question comes in, is Esp scum, is singer scum, or are both scum? Singer's more scum to me than Esp, but my current guess is that both are, albeit weaker on Esp.

I'm just generally picking up a strong vibe that scum REALLY want singer alive. And that they'd do anything to keep her that way.

[mastin2]

Which is town.

Agree.

No argument here. I do in fact see the town in CDB from it.

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF]

That's a pretty terrible lynch pool.

Well, to be fair to DV, the only hardfast horribad name in there is Bulbazak. And regardless of DV's alignment, a scum is likely to be in there. (Just no more than one.) But Dan and Aronis are both hard nulls.

Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq? Considering how solid it looked to me, I'm surprised that we're the only two votes on him.

Just as Bulb's case on Aronis made me reconsider my townread, TTH's case on Marquis made me consider Marquis for being scum.

Not solidified, though.

[mastin2]

My team also collectively thinks TTH should claim now before the possibility of putting together a fake claim tomorrow based on results/actions of partner.

And I'll fight tooth-and-claw (because my nails are too long, natch) to stop this. TTH pressure dies as long as I live. Preferably longer.

This is my gun to my head scum team if Singer's scum.

What if singer is town?

My reads change very little.
I push Esp a whole lot stronger as being scum.
DV still has my eye.
You're slightly less suspicious, but I still look at people like Dan, Marquis, and Aronis to fill in the scumteam.

@FFery, Am I right? Is Singer Flailing here?

I'm not sure if I'd call it flailing, but yes, singer is in fact scum caught.

[mastin2]

the moment you vote for singer my brain goes kaboom and I start to think you are scum.

Tough. I'm town, walking deadwoman town at that. singer...isn't.

@Mastina, Thanks. We need to talk about GiF. He's town but I can't explain why. He should be in the block.

If you can give me 100% assurance that GIF is not scum, then I'll consider it. (It depends on his reads more than anything else.) I am dropping the scumread, though. I trust you there.

Speaking of which, updated readslist is coming in.

[mastin2]

Mastin you absolutely can't run up a town bloc and exclude the confirmed town who's days are numbered.

I can and have.

I have my conditions. Trust in my townbloc's members to all be town.

You don't fit that parameter. So you're not in.

[mastin2]

Right.
TTH is town.
Bulbazak is town.
Titus is town.

Vezok's town.
Tammy/Oversoul's town.
Shadoweh is town.
GIF I'm trusting to be town.

CDB is very likely town.
Gamma I just think is town.
Cheetory is town enough.

UT is vaguely town.
TSO is about here, as null.
Marquis goes here.
Aronis is about here.
Dan's down here.

Espeonage is a scumread.
DV is a scumread.
And singer is just scum.

About this, is where I'm at.

[mastin2]

I don't think Mastin has ever read me as town when I am town. Huzzah. The stars have aligned.

Blame Tammy.

@Mastina, Would scum Marquis really admit to being the most annoying scum I have ever seen, knowing I was looking for patterns in the flail. Also tjis flail from Marquis matches more her townflail than YnB. YnB had an arrogance to them. So what my wagon is entirely town, you're not going to lynch me type vibe. Here, I see someome frustrated, confusedand working with people. Maybe its next level buddying but I doubt it.

I put nothing past scuMarquis. Your stance on him and general skimming of his posts has lessened the ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh read somewhat. (I placed him above Aronis for good reason. He's literally the name JUST below null.)

Mastin, convince me tth is town.

No.

You were expecting something else?
Tough.

That is my one fundamental hard stance, above all the others. It is also the one that has the least conventional reasoning attached to it. I cannot explain it. It simply is, and is strong to the point that I will NOT give it up. Bulba I can explain. (Sorta.) Titus I can give a good idea on. (Mostly.) TTH I will not.

It is something that you accept on faith and faith alone should be enough. A fundamental, one-read-above-all-else, "trust me".
Kinda like how we've got a "trust me" on GIF and a "trust me" on Shadoweh. (Neither's in my townbloc, but both are in my SOLID town section off of that trust alone.) Trust is a currency I'm all too happy to exchange.

I don't need to give logic on TTH being town.
She is.
I'm saying she is.

And that should be enough.

Conftown be damned.
I cannot work with someone who won't accept TTH is town. That's the one truth. ONE. TRUTH. Above all else that I have in this game.
And if for some ungodly reason you don't understand this.
Then demand Nacho read my posts.
Call him forth.
Absolutely refuse to let him go, make him prioritize reading my posts over reading his own dang game.
Because there's not a chance in hell he doesn't know what I mean.

We both townread Empire's replace out.

And I continue to feel bad for saying this, but bluntly, no it freakin wasn't. It was a pile of absolute BS. I hate saying that. But it's true. It read as scum-doing-what-they-should-do-as-town, not as town-actually-doing it. Simple as that.

[mastin2]

well, bulbazak too, but I'm not going to be able to read him in the amount of time I have most likely, so I'm not going to push him most likely.

Bulbazak's basically town because this is him, thinking for himself, having solid thoughts, directing things, planning things, analyzing things, and working with others, in contrast to when he's scum, posting weak content, not very much at the forefront, largely just blending in, and such.

...That is a HORRIBLE description. But basically, the stuff he's doing is highly town. Mollie via him as a proxy was pretty dang town (yes, I do get reads off of people via their teammates), there's thoughts from him that I find highly unlikely to come from scum, him aligning with me so much is something that generally comes from his townself not his scumself, basically, there's a ton of stuff that just piles up. It's nothing really specific. Just lots of things here and there that make him...well, just be town.

[mastin2]

Why are you scum reading DV, Mastin?

Because everything about him screams Tales-him? (Including having Ceph as his backup. )

All of his stances seem like...just...so...well, scum-motivated. I also find it hard to digest that he'd have TTH suspicion that he'd push the way he has if he was town. His entire way of directing the flow seems like he's directing it away from scum and onto town.

[mastin2]

Can you walk me through why TTH is town holding my hand and talking to me like I'm 5?

Like you're 5, and I'm an adult?

Alright.

Because I said so.


(What, that's what my parents did to me. No explanation, just 'because we said so'.)

[mastin2]

@bulba,

This is my one reach-out to you. If you want to convince me you're town or work with me in this game, then it will have to be without further posts that I interpret as sniping and discrediting. Talk about your reads, not my shortcomings.

Bulba is no more sniping nor discrediting you than I am.

[mastin2]

Post game Mastina you are going to have to explain how stubbornness works for you and not me.

Reputation, results, and frequency, mainly.

I invoke this level of stubbornness once in a blue moon.
...Okay, maybe twice or thrice in a blue moon, but still, fairly uncommon. You're known for it every game.
I have a reputation of doing it as town. You have a reputation of just being a plain stubborn person.
I produce results with my stubbornness; it's happened by now dozens of times and only been wrong once. You produce results, but stubbornness is not a fundamental aspect of it.

Basically, when you invoke stubbornness, it doesn't mean anything, but when I do...

people listen

. Or regret it later when they realize they should have. (A-la Tales.)

Mastin you modded ny 164. Do you think his play fit the picture you're painting?

My picture of Bulb is shaped by every game he's been in that I've encountered him in. From there to the mini where he was scum to both Hilarious Unbalanced games where he was town to that one Fire and Ice game. I don't have Bulba on my AP-level readscale yet where I can instaread him. I do have him at the Nacho-level where my read on him is at least 75% likely to be correct, given how well I've begun to understand him. In fact, given how little I interact with Nacho these days, I'd say that I'm closer to and more accurate with Bulbazak than with him.

And given this, he is town.

[mastin2]

@mastin
That is a true statement.
I'm not biting your head off about it because I'm townreading you and will continue to probably for my duration in the game.

Don't apply the double-standard.

Either don't townread me or townread Bulba. Or at the least, admit it's null. If it's null from me, it's null from him.

[mastin2]

@Mastin - Nacho says he trusts you. But he totally, totally disagrees with your Singer read. We do not want to spend our one day on this game's earth watching our strong townreads get lynched. I think you can understand that even if we're not seeing eye to eye on who we think is town.
Let's lynch someone we both think is scum.

Okay. I'm willing to try. But that's gonna be hard, since my next-strongest scumread is DV.

Behind that I suppose is Esp, but that's not very strong at all.
By the time you get up to Dan, the fourth, it's more null than scum.

So I'm willing to not lynch singer, but...do understand my read on her isn't changing.

Also, justsayin, she's totally Viktor Jarvik.

fucking busting my ass arguing against your wagon.

See, where you see bad town, I see simply scum. That's why my read on her isn't changing.

But,

Unvote: singer

.
I do owe you this much.

[mastin2]

I will have to have a townread before trust is an option.

The deal with me not voting singer's off if you frankly DON'T have a townread on Bulb.
I trust TTH.
I trust Bulb.
I trust Titus.

And by extent, I trust both Shadow and GIF to be town.

Three in my townbloc.
Two in my maybe-townbloc-if-reads-are-compatible.
That's where I start not including you.

[mastin2]

I'm seriously considering just going ahead and full claiming since holding back really isn't really accomplishing anything and I don't really have time to respond to everything people are throwing at me, which boils down to "she isn't posting enough."

While TTH really is probably scum and her telling me my lynch pool sucks with no explanation is much appreciated

Because it contains Bulbazak, two lurkers, and a universal question mark. Three out of four of those are targets of convenience

And the fourth is a godawful read!

You also can't forget that YOU are in his suspects just outside the lynch pool, too.

Also, Anti said Quickness called and it wants Feu et Vol back. I thought that was funny since you mentioned that game.

(Incidentally, it's making no such calls about demanding its singersigner back.)

[mastin2]

@Mastin: I don't know if you have or not, but can you walk me through your DeasVail scum read?

Aside from TTH's rock-solid reasons?

This is Tales-DV. A DV who is doing his damnedest to look like his town self and has successfully done so in the eyes of most major players, but who is still visibly manipulating things to me. His thoughts simply do not look organic. At all. They're meant to look good. They aren't ACTUALLY good.

[mastin2]

@Mastin: I don't know if you have or not, but can you walk me through your DeasVail scum read?

Aside from TTH's rock-solid reasons?

This is Tales-DV. A DV who is doing his damnedest to look like his town self and has successfully done so in the eyes of most major players, but who is still visibly manipulating things to me. His thoughts simply do not look organic. At all. They're meant to look good. They aren't ACTUALLY good.

I thought of it.
The word.
THE word.

It works for describing both DV's play and singer's play.

Their play is cheeky.
That's the word that describes what I see. I don't see real enthusiasm. I see cheekiness.

[mastin2]

Hello mastin.
Anti's wondering why you're not sheeping the vote he's endorsing if you're townreading this slot so hard.

Mainly because Marquis is a much weaker read and I'm not sure who I want to lynch.

...Okay, I know who I WANT to lynch (singer, DV), but I'm not sure who I want to AGREE to lynching. (Who I bargain with, essentially.)

To be perfectly honest, it's looking like today's heading towards an Esp lynch (not the happiest about that), secondary choices being Dan, Aronis, and

maybe

Marquis. I'll support any of those. I'll try to unify the town in their stronger reads, work together in bringing stuff together where it most matters. But none of them will make me happy. Not Marquis, not Aronis, not Dan, maybe not even Esp.

[mastin2]

mastin
is pie following your game

Nope, just me in here.

There's been TALK from my team of, "Hey, I might be able to view your game later", but they never actually follow through, the slackers.

So you won't play ball with me here?

...That post was explicitly me saying I might be willing to play ball?

It's just that, well, y'see, I have this fear of balls, instilled in me from playing soccer......

[mastin2]

I replaced into Quickness (another rather large game at the time), had very little interaction with Anti, and ended up losing the game in lylo...why do you think Anti "not wanting singersigner back" means anything? This kind of jab is terrible. (oh look! singer discrediting yet another backhanded jab at her! how scummy!)

Actually...yes, it is.

The expression, "X called, they want their Y back" means that Y is being shown, when it is something shown from the past.
"Game called, they want their player back" means that the player is showing the same stuff they did in that prior game.
e.g. 'Tales called, they want their DeasVail back'.

When I said, "Incidentally, Quickness is NOT calling for singer back", that was a not-so-subtle jab. "Quickness called, they want their singer back" would be me saying that you're town like you were there, so it stands to reason that Quickness

not

calling for you back means you're NOT town here.

And there's no way I can see a player not understanding this. It's rather self-explanatory.

[mastin2]

Fferylt, now that Thor and Llmarble are dead could you have them give their opinions on this game? Specifically, CDB, UT, TellTale, and Mastin?

Odd choices given that Thor probably has only some snarky comment in regards to me that boiled down means "I have nothing" and I don't think I've ever played with Llmarble so I'd be pretty dang surprised if he gave some valuable insight on his first go-around.

[mastin2]

Fferylt, now that Thor and Llmarble are dead could you have them give their opinions on this game? Specifically, CDB, UT, TellTale, and Mastin?

Odd choices given that Thor probably has only some snarky comment in regards to me that boiled down means "I have nothing" and I don't think I've ever played with Llmarble so I'd be pretty dang surprised if he gave some valuable insight on his first go-around.

I'm back here.

But I wanted to convey that pie dream-suspected Marquis.
No, seriously. That pie got spoilers of Marquis being scum. That was pie's dream.

Good enough for me.

Vote: Marquis

.

/catching up.

[mastin2]

Are you saying that only people who are familiar with your playstyle can analyze your posts?

Oh, anyone can analyze them.

I'd just be deeply, deeply impressed and frankly flabbergasted at someone not familiar with my playstyle who would be able to provide some interesting/unique insight.

Mastin, please answer my question to you.

Gonna need to tell me what that was.

[mastin2]

Dear singer, kindly shut the fuck up and stop trying to derail the train.

(Psst, Esp's alignment regardless, she's probably scum.)

[mastin2]

It's probably because all of my scum buddies are hardcore ignoring my wagon in hopes that'll disappear. Well, there's maybe one white-knighting me, but she can't vote anyway so I'm not worried about it coming back to bite me in the butt.
I also didn't realize we were voting based on "bareableness"...I might have to change my strategy! Can you comment on my case on Shadoweh?

(This post is horrible, btw.)

[mastin2]

Nacho really really doesn't understand why you're failing so hard at reading her, because it feels like it's the sort of read that you should be able to make and then hold on to and not have to look back.

Nacho's feelings are mine!

...Except I have it the other way around! Reading singer as scum is, to me, something that feels like the sort of read that just makes so much sense that once it's made, you should never need to look back at it again.
I'm not lynching her, out of respect to Nacho.

But that doesn't change my feelings on her.

[mastin2]

And Mastin!

Nacho thinks that regardless of which of us are correct in our big divergencies in this game, there is scum in the middle ground, and he thinks Action Dan is very likely to be one.

Realistically, yes. That could be where my vote actually will go.

But dreams! Dreamlogic is never wrong. (Okay, so teammate's rather than MINE, but same principle!)

[mastin2]

@mastin

, can you look at esp/titus interactions in my last post and tell me what you think?

Screw that. I'd be more inclined to lynch you. (Which I wouldn't do given my townread.)

[mastin2]

GUYS.

PIE AND I HAVE ENTERED A MINDMELD.

THAT NEVER HAPPENS. (Except for maybe one game, if I'm remembering it being pie correctly since there's at least one or two other scummers my memory tells me it coulda been but I'm pretty sure it was pie.)

[mastin2]

Yep, it was pie.

What did pie say?
Gammy, cheet, Tammy (strongest), vezok, and Shadow town.
Titus unsorted...but DV, UT, and Zar as scum.

On page ten.

THOSE WERE MY READS AT THAT STAGE OF THE GAME.
MIND.
MELD.

[mastin2]

Btw, pie chimed in and said that Empire's reads were...well, backwards. And said an update around p40 should be incoming.

[mastin2]

Oh btw mastin. I've just been skimming your posts. Did you know that all your scumreads you ever had are voting me?

I did not notice that, but it does indeed make me quite wary.

Honesty, I'm not liking the Esp wagon even though it looks towndriven (by which, I mean, I don't think scum are pushing it but I don't think it's necessarily on scum), and I'm not liking your wagon because it distinctly looks scumdriven.

The far smaller singer wagon is far more appetizing to me.

And honestly?
pie agrees with my reads thusfar. I have my team's support. I have the support of multiple people that I think are town and are in my townbloc. So I kinda want to go through with this,

My team says I should say fuck you dad and lead a powerlynch on singer and I really don't know if I can work that up. @_#

Even though doing so would be betraying ffery and Nacho by going back on my word.

It's like...literally everyone EXCEPT those two that I trust are saying that singer is scum. pie is. Bulb is. Titus is. I think there's support from TTH's team, too. Shadoweh's team supports that wagon as well. And it's my own thoughts, and has been my own thoughts, for the whole game. I've thought it of Zar. I thought it of what I saw from Empire, including the replace-out. I have continued to see it from singer. All those little things which scream scumposting, which tell me that you have to be increasingly delusional to write them off as being badtown rather than what they feel like they actually are, simple scum posting.

[mastin2]

Screw it.

I'll take full responsibility for this.

Draw ffery's ire. Risk my friendship with Nacho.

VOTE: singersigner.
If anyone feels similarly to me, I urge you follow me.

[mastin2]

And I know that by doing this, I'm dismantling a potential wagon on scum.
Dan's been at my nullscum list for ages.

I really, really, really shouldn't be dismantling this wagon.

But I also really, really, really don't like the wagon.

And really, really feel like it's just...

right

to push for a singer lynch. Everything in the world is telling me that I should be overriding the conftown, telling them to listen to me rather than the other way around. It's arrogant beyond all measure. Reckless, and unlikely to even work. A singer lynch would be hard to do even without resistance, but with it, I risk dividing the town in half by pushing for it over a Dan lynch.

Yet I can't help it. I just...can't find myself comfortable compromising on a lynch right now.

[mastin2]

For what it's worth, pie similarly to me likes how Dan's reacting to his wagon and thinks it's town.

[mastin2]

And, yes, Titus.

I know exactly what I'm asking.

Frankly, I kinda sorta feel like I'm trying to Nacho a game where Nacho is effectively present. You know, pull the Talesesque trick of, at the end of D1's deadline, flashwagoning someone and pushing it through? Except on scum since I'm town, rather than the other way around.

A daunting task that could in theory be a blow a-la me pushing catbug/vezok. But instead, it feels like me pushing Ceph, be it that game or in Tales, where it's a push on scum, by town, that is hardpressed but not impossible.

I'm fully aware of just how much a stellar IDIOT I would look like if singer flipped town.
But I also know that I'll feel much, MUCH worse if I DON'T push her through and she's scum.

[mastin2]

I mean, I realize I've only got three scumreads, one weak (Marquis).
And I realize that the scumreads I have are ever so slightly weaker than their equivalent townreads-that-I-townblocked. (TTH, Bulbazak, and Titus.)

Meaning that even if I'm right, I'm not entirely right.

Even though ignoring my townbloc-townreads if I'm wrong about these scumreads would be a mistake...
...It should say something that

I'm willing to risk it

.
I'm willing to risk being ignored about TTH, Bulbazak, and Titus being town (even though people should REALLY listen to these and realize that even if EVERY other read of mine was wrong, they're not scum and I'm right), if I end up utterly failing about singer being scum.

...But that's because singer is a scumread of mine that I can't let go of. Not when it's this strong. Not when it's like this.

[mastin2]

Why?

If you're expecting me to be in a logical mood, I'm sorry to sorely disappoint you.

This drive is not, and never has been, driven by logic.

It's purely gut.

[mastin2]

stop your vanity vote

Check again.

It's anything but.

There's three or four current voters, with at least one or two more who have at least passing interest in joining.

That's not vanity. That's counterwagon practicality.

It can be done.

Titus:

You can revote Dan later if you'd like. Vote singer now. People like UT paying attention to the literal numbers (idiotic as that is) will see one less vote and think the wagon is one less vote from being viable.

[mastin2]

Do you think you're doing the right thing?

Yes. As horrifying as the fear in me is that I could be wrong, that by doing this I'm going to cause a disaster, that I will regret it, that fear feels like nothing but just that: fear of a possibility. When everything tells me that going after singer is the right thing.

[mastin2]

ONE DAY
ONE
YOU CAN'T GIVE NACHO ONE DAY?

I WANTED TO.
SO BADLY.
BUT I CAN'T.

[mastin2]

YOU CAN.
I KNOW YOU CAN

pie is urging me to give you the one day for what it's worth.

Speaking of which, pie has a scumread on TSO and wouldn't mind him burning a horrible fiery death (lots of little stuff, among it being his "I don't trust Tammy" bits), BUT that said...pie's strongest scumread is DeasVail. There's a fair amount of reasoning, but pie pointed specifically to 1118, saying that it's a, "write massive wall to get townread by everyone when no other post is town" type thing, which if you haven't noticed I agree with wholeheartedly about some of DV's other posts, and we both agree it's scum-DV.

DV's second-strongest scumread (TSO's basically a distant third) is, incidentally, Empire. So dead serious when I say: giving you one day would be exactly that: JUST one day, because we both agree on that read wholeheartedly. Again, remind Nacho when the last time pie and I had agreeing scumreads was, and he should understand. (It was Touhou. I nailed both scum, pie nailed both scum.)

It's worth noting that pie does scumread Titus but I'm overriding that, and is throwing Esp in for the heck of it which I can allow. pie, unfortunately, has no read on Dan, and has both GIF and UT where I'd have them right now, as unsorted but vaguely town. Tammyslot is pie's strongest townread, but it might surprise you to learn Cheet is pie's second-strongest. (Cheet's been a minor townread, so I trust that.) After that comes vezok and Shadow, and then pie's weaker townreads: Bulb, CDB, Aronis, Gamma, and surprisingly Marquis. (I'm sorry, this is a lot of content to paraphrase, so it might not be entirely accurate to pie's exact stances, but it's close.)

pie's only back on page 40, though. So reads subject to change from pie.

What this means, though, is...I'll consider it when I'm caught up.

[mastin2]

I've been turned right off that prospect over the course of this unbearably long Day and the fact that the wagon still persists so heavily bugs me.

(Maybe because it's actually, y'know, a wagon on scum, rather than a flashwagon on town.)

[mastin2]

nothing makes me want to go against someone more than them saying FOLLOW ME I'VE LITERALLY NEVER BEEN WRONG

(...In hindsight, UT not liking to read my posts may suddenly now be a good thing given what I say in them......... )

if Singer flips town will you be willing to give us your support on the next three lynches - The second day 1 lynch and the day 2 lynches?

Explicitly so, yes.

It's not happening, though.

[mastin2]

I come bearing gifts! A readslist, from Kagami! And myrrh and frankincense also!
T S O
DeasVail
GuyInFreezer
Shadoweh
Oversoul
------------
ActionDan
Gammagooey
mastin2
Marquis
Bulbazak
TellTaleHeart
ChannelDelibird
vezokpiraka
Cheetory6
Aronis
Titus
----------------
Espeonage
singersigner
Untrod Tripod

I am...very, very, very thoroughly unimpressed.
I'm rather willing to trust pie's read now, as if my null on him before wasn't enough.

[mastin2]

Like...Dan has a point.

T S O
------------
ActionDan (TOP OF SECTION)
----------------
singersigner (SECOND IN SCUM SECTION)

VC 70 (Major Day 1, VC 32)

(8)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner,

T S O

, Espeonage, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird, Titus [L-2]
(4)

singersigner:

Bulbazak, mastin2, Shadoweh, Untrod Tripod

(Gammagooey)

(3)

Espeonage:

vezokpiraka, ActionDan, Cheetory6

TSO's excuse doesn't cut it. If he's not in the game with thoughts of his own, why NOT trust in a teammate who is?

[mastin2]

Regfan

You are breaking our hearts with this tammy fixation.

Not sure whether it'll make the heartbreak better or worse, but it'll be different when you see that he wasn't doing it with a town mindset! (Regfan is singer's team, no?)

Also, ffery, would you endorse a flashwagon on TSO?

[mastin2]

tl;dr for those playing at home:

Basic count on scumreads right now overall would be:

singersigner/DV
DV/singersigner, both tied for strongest scumread.
TSO third, but since the other two are off-limits for today, viable.
Esp is overall I guess the distant fourth candidate, albeit not that great of one.

Any name outside of there I don't think I'm going to support.

[mastin2]

Mastina, can you link me to Tales since it fuels your scumread?

Sure thing!

Special note goes to there being a post DV made, that I instantly scumread, yet EVERYONE, and I do mean EVERYONE (except my allies such as zMuf) townread. I'm too lazy to track down the link to the specific post (maybe pie would know), but iso me (MastinSSK) and you'll find my ranting about it at some point or another.

Fair warning, DV was hydraing with Cephrir, so that muddies the waters a bit...but conveniently enough, Ceph is DV's teammate and backing up DV so they effectively have the same hydra this game!

Why does everyone who doubts you wind up in your scumlist?

(Because she's scum.)

I think anyone who'd like to vote TSO should go ahead and do that.

Sure thing!

VOTE: TSO.

[mastin2]

Not really. I wasn't in Gundam Seed that long if you recall. *grumble, grumble, gripe, gripe, scum dayvig is a horrible role*

(Incidentally, a common trend between Tales and Gundam is that I had excellent reads in both. )

[mastin2]

But whatever. I know Nacho is pushing this. It's becoming a sitewide thing where Nacho is fucking lynching me in every game we play and he's always wrong.

This really seems like scumposting.

[mastin2]

T S O:

Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird [Lynch!]
(4)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, T S O, Espeonage, Aronis

(GuyinFreezer, ChannelDelibird)

(2)

singersigner:

Bulbazak, Shadoweh
(1)

Formerfish:

TellTaleHeart
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul
(1)

Not Voting:

Formerfish

(Or not.)

The concerning thing here is that other than singer, I'm not sure where the scum would be. Maybe in Dan/CDB. But hard to tell.

VOTE: singersigner.
Vanity, I know, but I feel like it.

[mastin2]

Ya. Im not sure there's more to say about this than: wtf

(But Dan's a scum candidate again in my eyes, for what it's worth, in spite of both DV and singer voting him.)

[mastin2]

/gotta go.
Be back later. Caught up, but don't really have much to say. Need to give things another look-at, and see if I can get pie reading some more.

[mastin2]

It means nothing.
I'm both a bit surprised and disappointed that not only Anti but also ETL share that stance apparently, but it's irrelevant.
TTH is town, period.

I am a walking deadwoman.
I am town.
I will be dieing, and save for Tales level of incompetency, not by lynch.
This deathdate is going to be sooner rather than later.
Suspicion on me, therefore, just passes entirely over my head. I don't have reason to care. They'll be proven wrong without me needing to lift a finger.

[mastin2]

I am a walking deadwoman. I am town. I will be dieing, and save for Tales level of incompetency, not by lynch. This deathdate is going to be sooner rather than later.
Suspicion on me, therefore, just passes entirely over my head. I don't have reason to care. They'll be proven wrong without me needing to lift a finger.

stop this. you've said it so many damn times and you saying it is not actually a towntell in any way.

'Course it's not a towntell. It's a fact. I can state it as many times as I'd like. It won't be any less true because of it. That said, you'll note I only brought it up because I was specifically asked, and this was my response. I actually agree with you. I don't bring it up without purpose.

What specific posts of DV's do you think are scummy?

I really hate this question, because literally every time it's asked, my answer is the same:
All of them.
And I can't point to any specific points to highlight why. Pie did, that one post of DV's that pie called "The make-a-wall-to-become-town-when-other-posts-aren't". I suppose if I isoed him and picked some of the longer walls, I could show the stuff there.

But it's just...general stuff. He's not pushing a town agenda.

[mastin2]

Role related or ego related that you are have a deathdate?
This is actually very important.

Sure is important!

But tell me.

In

what

universe would it

ever

be a good idea to answer this question?

[mastin2]

What is your opinion on TTH scum reading you, Mastin?

It means nothing. I'm both a bit surprised and disappointed that not only Anti but also ETL share that stance apparently, but it's irrelevant. TTH is town, period.

^

[mastin2]

What is your opinion on TTH scum reading you, Mastin?

It means nothing. I'm both a bit surprised and disappointed that not only Anti but also ETL share that stance apparently, but it's irrelevant. TTH is town, period.

^

Back here, and bad news:

Mini-V/LA

for tomorrow. Worst of timing, I know, but I've got some big assignments due, then last-minute extra square practice.

...Speaking of which,

Mod: V/LA from May 1st-May 3rd.

Going to the Pacific Northwest Teen Square Dance Festival.
Gonna be dead by then likely, but if not, you need to know.

[mastin2]

Where I am hasn't changed. But I should convey some of pie's thoughts.

pie is beginning to come around to Titus being town. She has a MASSIVE desire to see DV die in a figurative fire (because DV's too lovable to die in real life), and also has my GIF suspicion. (I'm really, REALLY trusting my townbloc here as for why GIF isn't scum, because he'd still be there if not for them.) The singer suspicion continues, though pie admits that pie mainly is basing that off of Empire (and his backwards reads among other things) and hasn't gotten around to reading much from singer. The fourth in pie's lynchlist is Esp, but that's a questionable read, and if not Esp then pie is thinking a weaker townread, like maybe Aronis, who pie has a gut-townread on.

pie also felt like for the first lynch, the entire flurry of posts (minus singer) was town, and that the scum were just sitting back, enjoying the show, noting that Aronis fits this profile but again the gut-townread is telling her not to pursue. (She does not support an Aronis lynch.)
Also, I'm not the only one drawing Tales parallels; pie shares my sentiment that this game is eerily similar.

Btw, I am peeking and see a Titus wagon, and that is a Very Bad Thing (R).

[mastin2]

I'd like to see if Ffery and Mastina can agree with someone with a bit more recent conflict. Someone who we can look at their reads and go gee that might be a good or bad idea. Someone we can adjust or refine our reads.

Honestly unless she wants to lynch DV (her resistance to singer has been made

quite

clear), I don't see that happening because the only two reads I actually feel like lynching are DV and singer.

Any other name, I feel could and in most cases probably will flip town. And that our best and realistically only true shot of getting a D1 scumlynch is lynching one of those two.

(Yes, I have twenty pages to read. I'll get it done.)

[mastin2]

psst do you really think DV can happen today?

Anything is possible, if you beliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeve~~~!

[mastin2]

b. I've been super duper fucking clear that I'd vote mastin for policy, not alignment

(Btw, UT, I consider your attitude this game so much a pile of trash that the feeling's pretty much mutual. I've been keeping that pent up inside of me for a while, but your posts have been irking me for the vast majority of the game because there's a lot of complaining in them and degrading plenty of useful stuff as being useless. I find your style of play absolutely despicable your alignment regardless, and honestly think your team would be better off with you replacing out for a player that is less abrasive and more invested. I have a very thick skin. But I do not appreciate your demeaning attitude; I tolerate it mainly because in spite of it, you're still at least being marginally useful. Yet I still need to speak my peace about it, nasty as it is to type this.)

DV is widely not talked about.

When I get caught up, I probably will move my vote there for what it's worth. On the slimmest of slim hopes that it'd get ffery's approval.

[mastin2]

I'm not sure what feather you have up your ass about mastin being "obvtown"

Really now?

Let me reverse that around.
Maybe.
Maybe. You I could see.
But Anti.
And ETL.

What. the. HELL. are they doing not telling you I am?

Heck, by now they should be telling you I'm conftown.

[mastin2]

(5)

Titus:

Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Untrod Tripod [L-5]
(4)

Aronis:

Gammagooey, Shadoweh, TellTaleHeart, Titus
(2)

singersigner:

mastin2, Aronis
(2)

Espeonage:

ActionDan, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Oversoul
(1)

Shadoweh:

singersigner
(3)

Not Voting:

Formerfish, DeasVail, Bulbazak

Btw, the Titus wagon is bad, but I'm not sure who would be scum on it.

The Aronis wagon is good name-wise, so could be scum, but not sure.

I just really don't have a strong lockdown on reads right now other than TTH/Bulb/Titus as town and singer/DV as scum.

[mastin2]

Also, the wagons I could get behind at this point are Shadoweh, CDB, AD, (probably Titus but it kind of makes me sick now), UT, and...meh, I dunno...I feel like I'm townreading everyone. -_-

(I'd like to reemphasize that Shadow and Titus both look town, and the other names look like they suck too. It feels to me the same way Empire's reads did to pie.)

[mastin2]

UT, Nacho feels like you're displaying an uncharacteristic level of hostility.

(^Why I would lynch UT. I would do so with absolutely no clue whether he was town or scum because the level of hostility from him has been so...bad.)

(10) T S O: Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird

Btw, another thing making me not so sure about my reads is that on here, I have a singular scumread in singer. I get deja vu with TSO compared to Bulbazak, though: the Bulbazak bane was from my understanding a last-minute thing. The TSO wagon was most certainly a last-minute thing. I have one scumread on there, a different one on both. So while the numbers alone tell me that there's another scum on it minimum...I'm not sure.

[mastin2]

I'm starting to get paranoid I'm being manipulated into fighting with other stubborn confrontational people so that we'll clutter up the thread and the scum can hide
who benefits from just sort of letting this happen and maybe egging it on? are all of us just on completely the wrong track?

(Psst. The natural assumption from this is that Titus and Oversoul are town and the likes of singer and DV are scum.)

[mastin2]

Other people that I'm not going to vote for today unless weird and wonderful things happen: Cheetory6,

Espeonage, Formerfish

, Mastin2, Oversoul,

Singersigner

, Vezokpiraka
People I would want to lynch but there are things stopping me from wanting to lynch them right now: Bulbazak, Shadoweh, TTH

Again with the backwards reads.

Especially egregious from DV.

People I want to look at: ActionDan, Aronis, CDB, Gammagooey, GiF, Untrod Tripod

This feels like blatantly sheeping the existing wagons, too.

(5)

Titus:

Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Aronis [L-5]
(2)

singersigner:

mastin2, Untrod Tripod

(Aronis)

(2)

ChannelDelibird:

Gammagooey, Titus
(2)

Espeonage:

ActionDan, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Aronis:

Shadoweh
(0)

Shadoweh:

(singersigner)

(0)

Untrod Tripod:

(Oversoul, Titus)

(6)

Not Voting:

Formerfish, DeasVail, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart, Oversoul, singersigner

(Titus)

+singer's broken vote on Titus.

Yeah, that wagon has scum.

I come baring gifts from Regfan! Updated reads. Hooraaaaay!
Town (S->W): (Very very confident) Cheer, Oversoul, Vezok,

DV

, Mastin, [Gap], GIF, UT, Formerfish, Aronis, [Gap],(Very weak) TTH, Esp, AD.
Null: CDB, Gamma
Scum (S->W):

Shadoweh, [Gap], Titus, Bulb

Again with the backwards. reads. Shadow, Titus, and Bulb are all basically conftown. CDB and Gamma are really,

really

easy pushes, too.

I share Shadow's sentiment on singer for what it's worth, ffery. I really, really,

really

think that when you go to the graveyard...you will instantly hold MASSIVE regret at having defended her so hard, when people like me have been pushing her and been stopped by you.

[mastin2]

(Worth mentioning I guess is that while we're at me saying my reads, I have a gut-scumread on Cheet, but it has absolutely no rational explanation whatsoever. I'm generally trusting the townreads people have, such as pie having Cheet as second-strongest plus me having originally had a townread there to override said gut-suspicion, yet I feel like I should mention it all the same as being there. Still, though. My main focus remains on singer and DV.)

[mastin2]

Also, Bulba's posting is a godsend.
If he were scum, I would cry.
Tears of sadness that someone

so dang competent

would be scum.
Tears of laughter that he'd be more town than actual town.
And tears of joy that he had grown so much to pull that off.

I'm not quoting his posting to keep my own iso a bit shorter. But I can skip to basically any post and almost any line in his post, and say, "Yeah, this." He's so on-point this game it's incredible.

[mastin2]

(10) T S O: Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird [Lynch!]

There are 5 votes on that wagon that I really don't like. I know they're not all scum, but surely you can see the problem with you not seeing any of them being "remotely scum". Heck, simple VCA theory should tell you to reset.

I'm actually wanting to run a theory.

Compare the TSO wagon to the TTH wagon to your wagon, see if a maybe-potential-pattern is emerging.

I mean, Titus is town, and I trust her on GIF being town. But I kinda thing that Cheetory is scum (again, absolutely nothing tangible on this at all, just general feelings) and obviously think singer is scum. Given my DV suspicion, what I'm basically looking for is a fourth, which I think could be basically anyone (save for people like Bulb/TTH/Titus/Shadow/Oversoul), but sorta lean towards Aronis/Fish/Esp (in approximately that order).

[mastin2]

(5) ChannelDelibird: Gammagooey, Titus, Shadoweh, Formerfish, Bulbazak
(4) Titus: Espeonage, vezokpiraka, Aronis, singersigner
(2) singersigner: mastin2, Untrod Tripod
(2) Espeonage: ActionDan, ChannelDelibird
(5) Not Voting: DeasVail, TellTaleHeart, Oversoul, Cheetory, GiF

My biggest frustration right now is that several of the people driving my wagon are people who look very town to me and should know better.

^My feelings on CDB are similar. The wagon's only possible scum are Gamma (not likely) or Formerfish (could be, but not the most likely). It largely seems towndriven, yet at the same time, I'm not sure it's on scum.

The Titus wagon is just awful, though.

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!

This reaction to an abysmal reads list is nothing short of astonishing.

(Psst. It's because she's scum.)

[mastin2]

Uhg.

I want to do VCA, but it's nearly 3 AM in the morning.

I'm not sure I'll be able to give you a final scum, or even confirmation that Cheet is scum. (It's purely a gut thing. My reads would at this point be different from everyone else's.)
But I'll try to get a readslist up before night. Hold on a sec.

[mastin2]

TOWNBLOC:
TellTaleHeart (TTH is town, period)
Bulbazak
Titus
Shadoweh

TOWN:
Oversoul/Tammy
GuyInFreezer (GIF off of Titus-trust)

KINDA TOWN:
Gammagooey
Vezokpiraka

REST:
ChannelDelibird
ActionDan
Untrod Tripod
Espeonage
Formerfish/Marquis
Aronis

SCUM:
Cheetory (pure gut)
DeasVail
singersigner/Empire/Zar

There.
/sleep.

[mastin2]

3AM or not, I think it's a massive, massive copout to check out of here without actively reacting to the largest wagon's massive series of posts.

I pretty much did already. I'm not too terribly fond of your wagon, but there's the conflict in that most of my townreads are on it whereas I want to avoid it.

Soooooooooooooooooo...basically, my thought boiled down is, I'm not fond of it so I wouldn't join it, but I'm not going to fight against it.

[mastin2]

TOWNBLOC:
TellTaleHeart (TTH is town, period)
Bulbazak
Titus
Shadoweh

TOWN:
Oversoul/Tammy
GuyInFreezer (GIF off of Titus-trust)

KINDA TOWN:
Gammagooey
Vezokpiraka

REST:
ChannelDelibird
ActionDan
Untrod Tripod
Espeonage
Formerfish/Marquis
Aronis

SCUM:
Cheetory (pure gut)
DeasVail
singersigner/Empire/Zar

There.
/sleep.

How the fuck are your reads completly inverted from mine? Seriously. How does this happen.

YOU TELL ME.
Because I know I'm right about mine. At least on the townbloc.
How come you're so

wrong

on yours?

[mastin2]

Hmm Tracker, detected someone likely to be killed ..sounds like scum tracker.

With my own role, I have my severe doubts.

Yes, this is me somewhat-vouching for CDB.

[mastin2]

I really dislike the strength of CDB's role.
Tracker + Rolecop?

Has strong parallels and synergy with my role.

So...yes.

[mastin2]

(9)

ChannelDelibird:

Gammagooey, Titus, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart, Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka, ActionDan, Espeonage [L-1!]

(3)

ActionDan:

ChannelDelibird, DeasVail, singersigner
(1)

Titus:

Aronis

(Espeonage)

(1)

singersigner:

mastin2
(1)

Aronis:

Shadoweh
(3)

Not Voting:

Oversoul, Cheetory6, GuyinFreezer

Again, this is the type of wagon that makes me question the accuracy of my reads a little bit. Titus, Bulbazak, and TTH are town. But I can see any other name on the wagon as scum.

The Dan wagon sucks minus CDB, though.

VOTE: DeasVail.
'Cause I can.

[mastin2]

I'm worried that one of our towntowntown or town reads (at least) is scum. Something feels off.

No duh.

TownTownTown
Oversoul, Gammagooey, ActionDan, Cheetory
Town
Shadoweh, Titus, Singer, GiF, Vezok, Aronis, FormerFish
Kinda Town: Bulbazak, CDB, Mastin, FormerFish
Leftovers: DV, Espeonage, tth, UT

The only name in the TownTown section that's actually TownTown for me is Oversoul. I personally gut-scumread Cheetory even though I realize everyone else including pie has him as town. You have TTH in leftovers when she should be TownTown, and both me/Bulb and now CDB in only Kinda Town when CDB should be in town and Bulb in TownTown. (Plus, if Nacho backed these up, me.)

I don't have a perfect picture of the game, you don't have a perfect picture of the game, but I'm resolute in my townbloc and fairly sure on both singer and DV.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Gamma

(Could actually maybe see this, btw.)

[mastin2]

Regfan thinks Mastin wouldn't ever gambit a soft-claimed role that will inevitably die as scum.

And yet you think TTH would?

Again, I point out the hypocrisy.

TTH is town.
Period.
I WILL die defending her.

Seriously, this is a big freakin' HUGE thing.
Anyone who thinks my crumbs come from town but suspect TTH's is invoking a double-standard that I find incredibly suspect.

[mastin2]

I would bet $20 on mastin fakeclaiming dying early regardless of her alignment here

Well, not going to say whether it's a nulltell or not and whether I'd do it as scum or not, but I will say for this game specifically...

...Pay up.

[mastin2]

NOT ONE SINGLE GAME where Mastin crumbs a PR as scum. And pretty close to ZERO games where mastin-town DIDN'T crumb.

There is one, technically. I was in the process of being replaced for reasons best left unsaid for everyone's sanity (but I'm still listed as a player because my slot got lynched before a replacement was found), but it was a micro. I was scum. I 'crumbed my ACTUAL role, Ascetic, by referencing heavily Snowstorm-in-Sabotage.

It's not that I don't 'crumb as scum.
It's that when I do 'crumb as scum, I'm still 'crumbing my actual role.

[mastin2]

(6)

ChannelDelibird:

Titus, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart, ActionDan, Espeonage

(Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka)

[L-4]
(5)

mastin2:

Gammagooey, ChannelDelibird, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka
(1)

ActionDan:

DeasVail

(singersigner)

(1)

singersigner:

mastin2
(1)

Gammagooey:

Oversoul
(1)

Titus:

singersigner
(1)

Espeonage:

Shadoweh
(0)

Aronis:

(Shadoweh)

(2)

Not Voting:

GuyinFreezer, Aronis

(Cheetory6)

Also, call it arrogance but I refuse to believe there's zero scum on my wagon. CDB I'm ruling out. The others, not so much. I can see any of them as being scum.

[mastin2]

"Oh man I'll believe ffery that GiF is town but not on Cheetory who Pie is also calling town"

Wrong.
I believe Titus on GIF because what she says goes beyond just "strong townread".

I have you as a gut-scumread, but

I am not pushing you

, in part because pie has you as her second-strongest townread as of where she is right now. In part because I had a mild townread earlier at that same stage. And in part because everyone else is also townreading you, most rather strongly at that.

...That doesn't shake my gut feeling, though. And right now, I'm listing my personal thoughts, other players be damned.

[mastin2]

Can we please fucking off mastin D2?

Good luck with that.
Especially if the job's done already.

[mastin2]

I dunno. I think he's a vastly better lynch than CDB or Mastin, but I'm not certain about him being scum looking at these posts.

I mean there's nothing that makes him town objectively to me and to the contrary he's objectively slightly scummy, but I have a gut feeling that if I endorse this wagon, it'll go through and surprise surprise he'll flip town.

Would you be willing to support a flashwagon on DV?

[mastin2]

TOWNBLOC:
TellTaleHeart (TTH is town, period)
Bulbazak
Titus
Shadoweh

TOWN:
Oversoul/Tammy
GuyInFreezer (GIF off of Titus-trust)
ChanelDeliBird (I fully believe CDB's claim)

REST:
Gammagooey
Vezokpiraka
ActionDan
Untrod Tripod
Espeonage
Aronis
Formerfish/Marquis

SCUM:
Cheetory (pure gut)
DeasVail
singersigner/Empire/Zar

Pending VCA.

[mastin2]

Nacho says he'd prefer formerfish to DV. Thoughts?

I'm extremely hesitant.
I feel it'd have a higher chance at producing a scumlynch than Espeonage, and certainly more than CDB and probably more than Dan, but while I could probably support and maybe even vote the wagon...still hesitate to vote it, when I think that DV is scum so much stronger and yet is about equally a realistic lynch candidate.

...Plus purely on a selfish note, a Formerfish scumflip does nothing to clear/condemn anyone whereas a DV scumflip basically clears me and my entire townbloc.

[mastin2]

And I feel DV is scum much, much, much stronger than I do Formerfish.

Fish I feel is maybe scum. By general feelings, is technically fourth from the bottom on my readslist and thus you could say is poe scum, but given how fluid the 'The Rest' section is, that doesn't say much. I see plenty which makes me think "could be town", even though I see plenty that says "could be scum".

DV I see as scum. I see basically nothing which looks town, and a ton that looks like scum mimicking it. That's why DV's my preference.

That a Fish flip gives nothing except the flip itself (admit it, it's true), and the DV flip gives a ton regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, is an added bonus.

[mastin2]

I'm working on a VCA, but multitasking. Posting where I am now so it goes through.

Spoiler: VCA stuffs

(3)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Marquis [L-7]
(3)

Zar

: Tammy, Bulbazak, Titus [L-7]
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

No Bane:

GuyInFreezer
(1)

Mastin2:

Shadoweh
(1)

Marquis:

Gammagooey
(1)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Cheetory6

(DeasVail)

(1)

Titus:

mastin2

(T S O, ChannelDelibird)

(0)

Cheetory6:

(Bulbazak)

(0)

ChannelDelibird:

(Titus, Cheetory6)

(5)

No Bane Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod, Zar

(mastin2)

Starting from here, btw. The Zar Bane is the first to get any real support, and boy does it look towndriven. The Gamma one contemporary to it (okay technically it was first, I guess, butstill) is solidly "meh".

(4)

Zar

: Tammy, Bulbazak, Titus, GuyInFreezer [L-6]
(3)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Marquis
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Mastin2:

Shadoweh
(1)

Marquis:

Gammagooey
(1)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Cheetory6
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(0)

No Bane:

(GuyInFreezer)

(5)

No Bane Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod, Zar

And GIF joins. Again, still towndriven.

(5)

Zar

: Tammy, Bulbazak, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Shadoweh [L-5]
(3)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Marquis
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Marquis:

Gammagooey
(1)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Cheetory6
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(0)

Mastin2:

(Shadoweh)

(5)

No Bane Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod, Zar

And Shadow joins in. Still towndriven.

(5)

Empire

: Tammy, Bulbazak, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Shadoweh [L-5]
(3)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Marquis
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(2)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail, Gammagooey
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Cheetory6
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(0)

Marquis:

(Gammagooey)

(5)

No Bane Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod, Empire

Empire replaces Zar. Welcome, Empire!

The beginnings of a Bulba wagon, via Gamma joining it.

(5)

Empire

: Tammy, Bulbazak, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Marquis

(Shadoweh)

[L-5]
(4)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Empire, Cheetory6

(Marquis)

(3)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail, Gammagooey, Shadoweh
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(0)

Untrod Tripod:

(Cheetory6)

(4)

No Bane Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod

(Empire)

Two on, one off the Gamma wagon. (Marquis/Fish leaves to join the Empire wagon, too.) Empire and Cheetory join. I can see this as coming from any combination of alignments, though.

(5)

Empire

: Bulbazak, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Marquis, Untrod Tripod

(Tammy)

[L-5]
(4)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Empire, Cheetory6
(3)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail, Gammagooey, Shadoweh
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(0)

Untrod Tripod:

(TellTaleHeart)

(4)

No Bane Vote:

Aronis, Espeonage, TellTaleHeart, Tammy

(Untrod Tripod)

UT joins the Empire wagon. (No surprise given his singer stance.) It does help my UT read quite a bit.

(5)

Empire

: Bulbazak, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Marquis, Untrod Tripod [L-5]
(4)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail, Gammagooey, Shadoweh, Cheetory6
(3)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Empire

(Cheetory6)

(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(4)

No Bane Vote:

Aronis, Espeonage, TellTaleHeart, Tammy

And Cheetory joins the Bulb wagon.

post 862 I presume is the point Empire "towned" it up, but the switches there are entirely null to me.

(10)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail, Gammagooey, Shadoweh, Cheetory6, Titus, vezokpiraka, GuyInFreezer, Aronis, Tammy, T S O

(Tammy)

[Decided!]

(2)

Empire

: Bulbazak, Marquis

(GuyInFreezer)

(3)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird, Untrod Tripod
(2)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, Empire
(1)

Titus:

mastin2
(3)

No Bane Vote:

Aronis, Espeonage, TellTaleHeart

(Aronis, Tammy, Tammy)

Then, ten hours later, BAM.

But the only possible scum later-on is Aronis.

DV, Gamma, Cheetory, vezok, and Aronis are the possible scum names.
DV I'm pretty sure is scum.
Cheetory is a gut-scumread.
Gamma's a possible scum as well, but not an absolute one.
Aronis is not particularly appealing one way or another.
Neither is vezok.

So this is a critical VC, it's just one that we need a bit of time to realize is one.

When it comes to the boon, like the choice, I'm skipping it, because it mostly seems like theory. There may be some theoretical scum-sided stance (like maybe vezok got booned because he wouldn't use it in a threatening manner?), but I don't think I'd be able to pick it out.

(7)

TellTaleHeart:

Titus, Empire, Tammy, Aronis, Marquis, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6 [L-3]
(1)

Bulbazak:

Gammagooey
(1)

GuyInFreezer:

ChannelDelibird
(1)

Tammy:

Espeonage
(1)

Aronis:

Bulbazak
(8)

Not Voting:

Actiondan, Deasvail, GuyinFreezer, mastin2, Shadoweh, TellTaleHeart, T S O, Untrod Tripod

(Cheetory6)

Peak of the TTH wagon. In hindsight, this was...really, really not towndriven. Titus and Tammy are town. But all the other names I could see as scum, most-likely to least likely being Empire, Cheetory, | Aronis, Marquis, and vezok.

(5)

singersigner:

Aronis, Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus [L-5]
(4)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod

(mastin2, Titus, singersigner, GuyInFreezer)

(3)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul, Marquis, singersigner
(2)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart, Espeonage
(1)

ChannelDelibird:

Shadoweh
(1)

ActionDan:

DeasVail
(0)

Shadoweh:

(singersigner, GuyInFreezer)

(3)

Not Voting:

ActionDan, T S O, GuyInFreezer

(Untrod Tripod)

I quote this one because it shows the first Esp wagon peak at ~8 names (not sure they were all on at once), along with the emergence of the singer wagon. The start of the singer wagon is a bit sketchy, but the townbloc not so much. The Esp wagon in contrast is kinda...meh. Not bad, not terrible, but just meh.

(8)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod, ActionDan, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, Shadoweh [L-2]
(3)

singersigner:

Gammagooey, Bulbazak, Titus
(2)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul, Marquis
(2)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner
(1)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart

(Espeonage)

(1)

Titus:

Espeonage
(0)

ChannelDelibird:

(Shadoweh)

(2)

Not Voting:

T S O, mastin2

Second peak of the Esp wagon, with a grand total of three solid townreads in there: CDB, Shadoweh, and sorta GIF. Add in a UT-not-likely-scum read, and you've got an

okay

wagon, but not a great one.

(7)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner, Cheetory6, Formerfish, T S O, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod
(5)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, ActionDan, Aronis, GuyInFreezer

(Untrod Tripod, Shadoweh)

(3)

singersigner:

Gammagooey, Bulbazak, Titus
(2)

formerfish:

TellTaleHeart, mastin2
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul
(1)

Not Voting:

Shadoweh

Peak of the Dan wagon. Let's see...DV, singer, Cheetory, and Formerfish all in a row on it. With Aronis too.

Yeah...I'm probably never lynching Dan for this VC alone.

(7)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner, Formerfish, T S O, Espeonage, Aronis, GuyInFreezer [L-3]
(6)

singersigner:

Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus, Shadoweh, Untrod Tripod
(4)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, ActionDan, Cheetory6

(GuyInFreezer)

(1)

formerfish:

TellTaleHeart
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul

I'd also like to point out the awesomeness of the singer wagon. The only iffy name there is Gamma.

I'll continue as I can.
/multitasking.

[mastin2]

TOWNBLOC:
TellTaleHeart (TTH is town, period)
Bulbazak
Titus
Shadoweh

TOWN:
Oversoul/Tammy
GuyInFreezer (GIF off of Titus-trust)
ChanelDeliBird (I fully believe CDB's claim)
ActionDan (I hated the wagon on him)

WEAK TOWN:
Gammagooey (here 'cause Nacho)
Vezokpiraka (same)
Untrod Tripod
Espeonage (off of meh wagons)

REST:
Aronis
Formerfish/Marquis

SCUM:
Cheetory (pure gut)
DeasVail
singersigner/Empire/Zar

/still doing basic VCA.

[mastin2]

(10)

T S O:

Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird [Lynch!]

(4)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, T S O, Espeonage, Aronis

(GuyinFreezer, ChannelDelibird)

(2)

singersigner:

Bulbazak, Shadoweh
(1)

Formerfish:

TellTaleHeart
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul
(1)

Not Voting:

Formerfish

On here, again, the names jumping out are singer and Cheetory.
Titus is town. CDB is pretty dang town. GIF I'm trusting to be town, and I don't see Dan as scum. Gamma/vezok could be, but Nacho trust + natural read = not pursuing.

(5)

Titus:

Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Untrod Tripod [L-5]
(4)

Aronis:

Gammagooey, Shadoweh, TellTaleHeart, Titus
(2)

singersigner:

mastin2, Aronis
(2)

Espeonage:

ActionDan, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Oversoul
(1)

Shadoweh:

singersigner
(3)

Not Voting:

Formerfish, DeasVail, Bulbazak

+singer's butchered Titus vote, and then +Aronis later. There's scum on the Titus wagon. Aronis wagon in contrast looks fairly town.

(9)

ChannelDelibird:

Gammagooey, Titus, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart, Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka, ActionDan, Espeonage [L-1!]

(3)

ActionDan:

ChannelDelibird, DeasVail, singersigner
(1)

Titus:

Aronis

(Espeonage)

(1)

singersigner:

mastin2
(1)

Aronis:

Shadoweh
(3)

Not Voting:

Oversoul, Cheetory6, GuyinFreezer

The main thing that makes me doubt my line of pursuit is this.
CDB is a townread. Yet...who on the wagon is scum? The only names that're currently in my considering pile are Fish and Esp.

(At this point, though, I DO think that one of Formerfish/Aronis is scum...like Bulb said ages ago. And not the other one.)

(6)

ChannelDelibird:

Titus, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart, ActionDan, Espeonage

(Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka)

[L-4]
(5)

mastin2:

Gammagooey, ChannelDelibird, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka
(1)

ActionDan:

DeasVail

(singersigner)

(1)

singersigner:

mastin2
(1)

Gammagooey:

Oversoul
(1)

Titus:

singersigner
(1)

Espeonage:

Shadoweh
(0)

Aronis:

(Shadoweh)

(2)

Not Voting:

GuyinFreezer, Aronis

(Cheetory6)

There's definitely a scum on my wagon, too. Not CDB, but the only names left are Cheetory and UT, with UT as doubtfully scum. So this does reinforce my Cheet scumread.

Not much here, not much changed.
I'm not right. On everything, I know I'm not right.
Still feels fairly close, though.

[mastin2]

ActionDan, Bulbazak, Gamma, Shadow, TTH

This is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE lynchpool.

Bulb's town, TTH's town, Shadow's town. That's just from me. Throw in Gamma-trust-to-be-town, and Dan's play looking fine plus his wagon being absolute junk, and again I say it:

DV's reads are absolutely backwards.

[mastin2]

Espeonage

1) Why is he a townread?
2) Why aren't you doing anything to stop his lynch? yeah, CDB is claimed PR and you don't want to lynch him and we're really close to deadline, but it seems like one of your top 5/6 townreads getting run up would cause some sort of reaction?

(Because DV's scum.)

[mastin2]

Also, pie delivers condolences to ffery for getting stuck in this town.
(pie made a Tales parallel, which I quite agree with.)

[mastin2]

If needed, the slot could be very very readable via mollie's involvement, so reaching out to her is an awesome way to read this slot and propel it to strong town if it deserves to be strong town.

Was Nacho paying attention?

mollie did this already.

[mastin2]

I promised ffery/Nacho not to lynch singer. Sadly, I intend to keep my word. She will not be lynched.

Bane: singersigner

.

...I didn't say anything about not

baning

her.

[mastin2]

Also, while pie hasn't read from 40-dayend, pie is reading from today's start and is wondering, essentially, "WTF IS SINGER GETTING TOWNREAD?!?" (not an

exact

quote, but a fairly good paraphrase of pie's ranting. )

Justsayin'.

[mastin2]

More specifically, pie is calling singer out on spending time making everyone she interacts with look bad, and is NOT seeing scumhunting from singer. (Incidentally, pie and I have a VERY high level of synchronization there, too. But for ~reasons~, I'm increasingly convinced this is no coincidence and that she and I agreeing = destiny of a townwin.) There's an entire lack of town motive present, posting for the sake of posting. (Swear to god, this is me paraphrasing pie; she's even stealing my phrasing in her posting. )

Also, pie specced that GIF was a low-info kill, made to kill an inactive-yet-somewhat-reasonable player, a-la the Mac kill in Tales of You, as to allow the gamestate to be the same as on D1. My own ego likes to think that GIF died as one of my townbloc's pending members, but pie's version is probably more accurate.

[mastin2]

Also, pie once again is reiterating that she's seeing Titus as town, and would curse the RNG gods if Titus ended up scum

again

. (She has NO clue. I, however, having frequently played with Titus, know she's always scum. Except when she's not. )

Speaking of which, pie just gave me some updated reads. Her strongest townread remains Oversoul, unsurprisingly, and for the time being, she has Cheetory next. Behind that is actually Marquis's slot of Formerfish. (Did I convey to you pie's thoughts there? I'm not sure I ever did. Basically, pie cheated a little via skipping ahead for Marquis and thought that the

way

Marquis replaced out was town. I'd have to go back to the posts in our PT to find the full series of posting.) Then there's vezok and Shadow, followed by Titus, Dan, and Bulb.

Empire/singer remain pie's strongest scumread, with Esp and DV a little behind. And of course, pie has a big whopping pile of nulls. No surprise there. (For those following along...I basically do, too.) The full list being CDB, Aronis, Gamma, UT, and TTH.

[mastin2]

How do you feel about Mastin's position on me?

I feel like I have no idea how to feel about mastin or anything she's been doing since like mid-last day cycle.

(AKA about the time my read on you started to degenerate and become a scum one. Justsayin'.)

[mastin2]

*Correction on pie's list. I read the scum backwards. singer's pie's weakest scumread, but explicitly only, and we do mean ONLY, because of fferyCho. DV's therefore pie's strongest scumread. My bad.

Also, to answer what my own read on Marquis is:
Ditto.
Objectively it'd probably be weak scum since there's some superficial evidence that weakly points to the slot being scum, but I have literally no read on them at all otherwise. POE would place them near the bottom of my readslist, but still firmly null.

[mastin2]

OK, looks like TTH is town then.

No duh. I just had to rant and scream at you all day to get people to listen to it.

You said you are dying.

And I am. I didn't say it'd be night one.

But I guarantee you. I will die. Especially if you don't bane me given that most likely reduces scum's desire to nightkill me. (Okay, I suppose it'd actually be possible to

increase

my chances of death via scum nightkill, but you wouldn't know why without me roleclaiming.)

3) why are so few people talking about how infuriatingly antitown mastin was at the end of Yesterday?

Because people know my stances about lynches by now.

I don't give a damn about no-lynches D1, or any day particularly. I'd rather them than on town. But if possible, I prefer on scum. And I deemed DV a viable scumwagon. There's a reason I'm not baning DV.

Also want to have another look at Bulbazak, DV and Formerfish imminently, I think.

I look forward to Formerfish, but Bulbazak is town and DV is scum.

[mastin2]

Yes, she's scum, what about her?

I'm holding back a string of profanity which itself would be holding back the

mother of all deathglares

at ETL right now, side of Anti.

Mastin

, why do you think Fferyllt and Nacho would be okay with a bane on Singer?

Because it's not a lynch on her.

...But seriously, they'd accept it. They would value keeping 'town' alive and not mislynching, thus no lynch on her, but doing a bane is a good way to keep her in check in case they're wrong--something they'd be happy to acknowledge as possible, especially as a compromise--while also in a way helping to ensure her survival.

[mastin2]

Mastin

, how involved is your team with your reads/this game? Why did you want TSO lynched?

Mara's been afk the entire time basically. notscience is much the same. pie's recently got into the game, and it was ironically pie that thought TSO was scum--third on the scumlist of pie's, actually. TSO was a nullread of mine. pie's read the first 40 pages of the game, and is trying to work from there.

How none of you saw the warning signs to the growth of the lynch is beyond me.

It

was

a deadline lynch, of our first lynch timeframe, Oversoul. We actually went over the clock to get

that

much. But yes, all the same I did see the signs. I chose to ignore them because...well, honestly I don't have the slightest idea why. singer joined, I noted it as a red flag, but I didn't do anything. No clue why.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Bane: Mastin

Also, btw, justsayin, I've explicitly claimed having a role similar enough to CDB's that I vouched for him yesterday, so that should tell you, "Hey, maybe DISABLING that would be a BAD IDEA".

[mastin2]

Look.

I'm at Bane-3.
If I get to Bane-1.

I'm claiming.
Period.
Then you'll facepalm.
And wish.

Really, really, REALLY strongly.

That you HADN'T made me.
I'm not getting baned today.

Period

.

[mastin2]

No duh. I just had to rant and scream at you all day to get people to listen to it.

She's confirmed town now, Mastin. Had nothing to do with you ranting or screaming about it.

Does it?
DOES IT?

Who was it who dismantled the TTH wagon

before

she softclaimed?
Who was it who kept on pushing that wagon away from existence time and time again, even after the softclaim?
Who defended her without using the softclaim as a reason, off of her PLAY not her softclaimed role?

Yeah, I can be a bit bitter that people aren't acknowledging that.

[mastin2]

You mean a role as hard to get off as CDBs? One that probably never work?

Not saying.

But it's a broken role if used properly.

I don't make that claim lightly.

[mastin2]

I don't know what to do.

Prove you're scum by continuing to banevote me, or in the chance you're town unvote me.

[mastin2]

You had sod-all to do with it, thanks.

Really now? Read my damn iso and tell that to me again.
DARE. you. to. There's a reason I was even called a freakin' white knighter of TTH; it's because you can bet your ASS that I was FIGHTING for her being town, above all else.

Well everyone else does

Screw that.
This is a matter of THEORY.
Not on play.
And you can search.
Find a non-scum game of mine where I, near deadline,

don't

act like this if I can't get a wagon going on a strong scumread.
There may be one or two in existence, but they're a rarity for a reason.

Search my damn MD posts for it, too.
I have always held that the stance that, "Oh, we MUST lynch, because clearly that lynch will give us info!" is a horrible-ass, rats-ass-backwards stance to take because no it freakin doesn't.

[mastin2]

(8) mastin2: vezokpiraka, TellTaleHeart, singersigner, Untrod Tripod, Aronis, Oversoul, Cheetory, Gammagooey

Claim: Doctor with bulletproof.

[mastin2]

Why the FUVK do you think that I'
ve been referecning fucking Tales of You so heavih and whjy on dayh one when it came to the Chouice thatrget I said I kknew it was basically realted to my role?

I warnede yoy NOT TO FFCJUCKING PRESS ME AND THJSI IS WHAT YOU GET,.

[mastin2]

DID I NOT TELL YOU.
DIDE I NOT FUIVVIING TELL UOU.

NOT TO FUCKING RLRESS ME.
THAT I WOULD NOT LETY OU BANE ME.

[mastin2]

If I get to Bane-1.
I'm claiming.
Period.
Then you'll facepalm.
And wish.

Really, really, REALLY strongly.

That you HADN'T made me.
I'm not getting baned today.

Period

.

DID THIS MEAN FUCKING NOTHING TO YOU.

BNERCAUSE WHEN I SAID I EMANT IT, I FUCKING MEANT IT.

No, I'm not sharinjg the details of my role. Claiming this damn much is bad enough.

[mastin2]

I never bluff.

When I say I mean it.

Fuucking yes I mean it.

(8) mastin2: vezokpiraka, TellTaleHeart, singersigner, Untrod Tripod, Aronis, Oversoul, Cheetory, Gammagooey
^TTH is town, Oversoul is town, but literally any other name there could be scum and I guaranfuckingtee you that there is gonna be at least one if not two or three in there.

[mastin2]

singer, Cheetory, UT, Aronis, Gamma, vezok, most to least in there.

[mastin2]

singer, Cheetory, UT, Aronis, Gamma, vezok, most to least in there.

I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back here, but I'd like to say...I've got a lot going on right now.

Physically, I've been feeling under the weather (post-competition Crash, you could say), mentally I'm exhausted (so much stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuff...), and environmentally, I'm getting a bit overwhelmed (I've got midterms, and I've got homework due today that I haven't even started), so for the next couple of weeks or so, I'm probably best considered semi-V/LA.

By which, I mean, I'll come in and contribute when I can, but I'm still recovering and setting my rhythm, so to speak.

Oh, and,
VOTE: DeasVail.

I'm sad that UT got baned because he was my second lynch for today. (I did see that much, as well as the horrendously bad boon on CDB--I feel that was very strongly scum-driven.) I'll figure something out after DV dies, though.
Quick stuff from the team, though:
Another scum-DV game I had. (Note that DV won, and I'm fairly certain I died calling DV scum.)

Pie wants Gamma to be town, and unlike me, isn't sure about CDB being town. Her townlist goes Tammy/Oversoul, Cheetory (there's a reason I'm not pushing Cheet, and it is basically entirely this and this alone), Marquis/Formerfish, TTH, vezok, Shadoweh, ActionDan, Bulbazak, then those two.

She still has both DV and Esp as scum, but isn't as sure about singer anymore.

My reads, incidentally, haven't changed, though they might after looking at the wagon overlap. (As I said. Booning CDB? Just seems hilariously scumdriven. Why? Simple. It's choosing to Boon a known entity: everything about CDB is public information, which the scum can subvert with ease. Choosing to boon, say, me, is an unknown entity. While I did in fact claim, I have claimed no details. As a result? Scum don't know what they can or can't do to me. Thus, scum would

strongly

be in favor of booning CDB.)

[mastin2]

Guh.

I'm still where I was last time.

I'm going through...well, it's hard to explain.
See, most of the important stuff in my life is normalizing. I've mostly balanced the scales. My mafia life is basically all I need to normalize my rhythm on in order to have gotten back to fully normal. Easy task...especially since on my main, this is literally the only game...and yet, I've been finding it incredibly hard to muster up the willpower to actually come here and log on, even though I have had the time to do so. (Heck, I think I

have

logged on since my last post in here, just not having done anything.)

I think I mighta figured out the cause, that being, that I have a fundamentally broken psyche: the more games I'm in, the more I'm motivated to log into the account, and vice versa--meaning that right now, when I have a low game load, I'm so demotivated that I'm practically siteflaking. (This, incidentally, would actually also help to explain why as of late I haven't been able to successfully hydra: logging into my main's all nice and good, but I'd only have the singular game on the hydra, and thus, there's the temptation to not log in...especially given that I have a partner posting.)

Technically, there's other stuff I could be doing. Reviews, An Ill-Advised Text-Based Adventure (which I promised an update on...exactly one week ago, which has yet to come), you get the idea, but while I'm visiting the site day-to-day, I'm actually not feeling motivated to do anything while here, at least not on my main. A slump, a depression, if you will.

Now that I know, well, there's a few things. Just putting this out here, if there's anyone who's modding a game and needs a replacement, consider myself volunteered. Short of specific mostly-rare circumstances (e.g. I'm in the game already as an alt, I'm on the blacklist of someone in the game, I won't play the game out of policy, you get the idea), there's pretty much nothing keeping me from accepting. Having more than one game to attend to will help the health of both. (Within reason. Ten games is just as bad on me as one game.)

That obviously being an unorthodox solution, I'll try the traditional one tomorrow. Which will be to blunt force my way through it. (So, within 12 hours most likely.) I'll try that out and see if I can get myself back into the game that way.

If that doesn't work, well, this IS team mafia, and my team's technically down a member. (We haven't heard from Mara in ages.) So if push comes to shove, and all else fails, we could probably pull a switcheroo, where I get subbed out of the active slot but remain on the team as an adviser while I get my head out of this mental slump. (This is my plan C, though, because it's less-than-ideal: a permanent solution for a temporary problem. I need to be in the game, like, right now. But I'm having this trouble. The trouble will go away. A switch-out would take care of the "in the game" bit, but after I'm finished with the trouble would leave me screaming to want back in, but the rules wouldn't allow that, soyeah. Not ideal, but plausible if necessary.)

On that note, it's 2:30 AM. I'm going to bed now, without any catchup. Sorry. I haven't even read the team PT. I'll read it and talk with them tomorrow, and then I'll read the bits of this game I need to.

[mastin2]

Okay.
So I'm not in the game right now.
But.

When I come back. (Hopefully tomorrow, since I have nothing other than school.)
There will be hell to pay.

And I will find out.

Why. the.

fuck

.
You bastards lynched from my fucking townbloc and basically my strongest fucking townread Bulbazak.

VOTE: DeasVail.

[mastin2]

Oh.
And question to the mods:
Can we talk about a game now that it's over?
'Cause there's a really important bit about singersigner that needs discussing, too.

[mastin2]

So I just checked the main thread and it says that you can discuss the games over.
First off, I'd like to say that even though Mara died N1, I did end up reading a bit of her game, regret not chiming in and saying, "Yeah, Alch's town" (because, yes, it was obvious to me as he said it would be), and deduced that ETL was scum off of like one or two posts during D1/D2. (I did this out of boredom one day, though I'm not sure it's legal for me to say what day I did them on.)

Second off, I'd like to say that in this game, there was talk back in the day:
"Why would Zar, who likes playing scum, switch out of a scum slot? And why would Empire, who hates scum, switch into one?"
Well, Zar from here switched into Empire's slot there...and flipped scum. Meaning, that reason would be invalid.

I firmly believe that it was a scum-scum swap.

Also, I'm seeing a Titus wagon.

So now my question is.
Are you fucking TRYING to piss me off by lynching my entire fucking townbloc? 'Cause next, you'll be telling me Shadow's the counterwagon, or that you somehow doubt TTH's claim.

(Yes, I'm mad. I'm going to do something to fix this tomorrow because I'm royally pissed off and I don't want to just blindly rant. I want to lash out with daggers.)