Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It kinda looks more like serra is trying to get on ETL's good side.

This is what I was starting to think myself but I couldn't be sure if it was more him being detached from the game or what, especially when he replaced out. Johnny was posting such bs though.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And for the record, please I do not want pity or apologies or anything like that. I am NOT trying to appeal to emotion. I am NOT trying to defend against scumreads with it. I just want to stop hearing about my activity level as a way to determine my alignment because it is not fucking related, and that annoys me. Finals are over, and while I have engagements beginning tonight until Monday morning, I will be checking in more frequently.

p-edit: did he have a good opportunity? With his biggest ally Mina shouting about not lynching me without me posting?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum, especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened. I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

p-edit: I suppose it

could

be. I'm having a hard time feeling that over quil.

p-edit: I plan to.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

p-edit: Actually, ETL, it was the opposite: we were GOING to lynch you because you hadn't claimed (better you be lynched and flip watcher, damning Brian Skies, than you not show up and counterclaim Brian Skies and LYLO)

ah yeah, this is good logic. You already knew I wasn't the watcher though.. so why didn't you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you have a strong reason for believing the scum would be on JF's wagon in particular (other than Quilford being scum)? I'd thought that was your point.

I think in order for the Johnny wagon to have made it through, his partner would have had to have been supporting it. I agree I should have left my vote where it was but I wasn't expecting to miss the deadline like a dope. But that's what I'm saying, right, DESPITE missing a town vote, the scum wagon still happened,

while

there were votes on town elsewhere (me).

Also, can you summarize why your teammates think Quilford is scum?

I will get that from them. It has mostly been site chat stuff. I'll go through our PT and pull it all together. *DISCLAIMER* I am telling you now so you don't yell at me, I have a show tonight, I am shopping with friends tomorrow night for graduation, Friday I have graduation, Saturday is my second birthday party, Sunday is a third birthday party, and I will be back on Monday. I will likely be hungover. I will

try not to

take it out on anyone.

p-edit: It's backwards. Once we figured out you weren't the watcher if town, we realized we could just lynch whichever of you or Johnny was scummier regardless of whether you checked in. Because even if we mislynched JF, no one would believe a counterclaim from you the next day.

I don't quite get this but my brain is saying it doesn't matter at this point. Perhaps explain it later.

p-edit: ehhhh..... yes because I'm scumreading quil. Like, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot but there are things he's said that I just go "wut... why would scum say this". Tell me what you are thinking please. Without trying to convince me that Quil is town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

AND what do we do if we end up lynching BB and it's not him? Like, I kind of feel hopeless in this because it's like you are totally unwilling to consider the possibility of quil being scum and I don't get that. There's no way you can be THAT certain, just none. It's just stubborn foolishness in the face of a town flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

wtf so many posts....

reading.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

These last few pages have not changed my mind about quilford.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Patrick's comments about being nervous also.. make me nervous.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am more convinced that BB is town and it is one of Quil or Patrick at this point, with a very strong preference for a quil lynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mina remains town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is BB town for a reason beyond the Quil vote, ETL?

Yes, I mean.. it's a combination of peripheral activity and my reads on others.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like, the momentum of support for lynching BB is alarming.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Patrick's comments about being nervous also.. make me nervous.

For any reason? I don't think I'd be especially nervous as scum right now.

Why not? The last couple pages has people suddenly going "hey.... what's up with Patrick". You then pop in and go "I don't like this page".

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't remember anyone even saying that apart from Reck's comment through Quilford. And that isn't what put me on edge.

Then what did?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So what were your reasons for thinking I'm scum again ETL? I thought you were compiling a list of reason your teammates think I'm scum

Yep. I'll be able to hook up with them on Monday. I already said I was essentially not here until then. I have a minute or two right now to make sure I don't fall behind but I'm leaving the office very shortly.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think you are scum for pushing a lot of town players, for being on all the town wagons with the exception of your hammer on Johnny, which looks to me to be made out of desperation. For attempting to create connections between town players and line up future lynches with bad logic. For the unnecessary ad hom defense. Among other things.

You can say that proficiency isn't a tell all you want, but the main scum motivation is to eliminate town players. Wherever you could provide support for a town lynch you have. I'm not just going to ignore that because you say so. Or because Mina says so.

p-edit: Yes. Within 24 hours of the day opening....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like, the momentum of support for lynching BB is alarming.

There are three people here who want to lynch Molla. That is the bare minimum required for a lynch.

Continue trying to discredit my arguments. Doesn't make them invalid, no matter how much you wish it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

p-edit: Yes. Within 24 hours of the day opening....

You do realise at least two of the people who want to lynch him have to be town, yeah?

Sure. There's two people who want to lynch you.

And yet the lynch for BB has .... 3.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

3 out of 4 possible voters... cuz he's not gonna vote himself is he?

So yeah..

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In any case, I promised myself I wouldn't get caught up arguing with scum again. If anyone else wishes to discuss my reads, I'm happy to answer whatever.

p-edit: ok. See above. I'm done talking to you. I am right and you are not.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I love how you try your damnedest to reduce my arguments to scraps that don't make any sense; deliberately ignoring the important qualifications involved.

You know what that's called?

A fucking misrepresentation.

Fuck off, Quil. I will lynch you if it's the last fucking thing I do.

VOTE: Quilford

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Cry harder. You can't even explain how I've misrepresented you, and instead of explaining what these nonexistent qualifications are, you'll just scream more

Are you fucking kidding me....

You aren't scum for "just being wrong". You are scum for pushing NOT JUST the townies who were lynched, but being on the wagons with your partner, which not only explains the massive amount of momentum they had, but the lack of viable counterwagons.

You've also pushed me consistently from the sidelines, waffling on me, because it's clear as shit you don't know how to handle me. You don't know how to get me to townread you and you know I won't just take your shit lying down. If you don't, you should.

There's also the hammer on Johnny, which only came when Mina begged for it. Mina, who has been your biggest support this entire game. Mina, who has saved your ass since D1. Despite being the towniest fucking town to ever town, it is no wonder she is still around. You needed her.

Misrepping my arguments about BB's wagon, as though it's not fucking common sense. Scum support for it is damn crystal. You don't want people to see it. Well that's just too bad.

And now, pushing BB, who really hasn't done anything scummy besides "I don't like his scum hunting". Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know this guy like... at all?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU ANYMORE.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you actually have a brain

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is that the expression on your face post-lobotomy?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Its funny how youre easier to understand now than you were when you were trying to use words in sentences

[EspeciallyTheLies]

confirmed wrong post game.

I fucking invented this trick.

Screaming about how I'm going to shove a player's ineptitude down their throat in end game. All the while I was scum trying to stir paranoia.

Talk about an appeal to fear. It's fucking classic.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wow, ur scum play sounds, like, rly good

I don't even need to come up with anything for this, considering.... it is.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What youre doing is called confirmation bias

Thank you for confirming that you know I am town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You certainly seem to have enough time on your hands to berate me ;–;

Yes. I had an hour for lunch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm back for good now. done partying and stuff. super hungover but that will pass.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is it LYLO?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No it's not. Awesome.

We are lynching Quilford.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I posted in the PT when I made that post and have not gotten a response yet. I already posted why I think you're scum multiple times. I'm gonna be honest and say the last thing I feel like doing is arguing with YOU about my case on YOU. If Mina, Patrick or BB wants to know, they can ask me themselves. YOU can go fuck yourself.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What the hell is going on with this fucking game.... I would like to get this over with sooner than later so I can go back to my life.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, something I've been thinking about: why didn't you put any scum tokens into this game? Given you seem to 1) think your scum game is the best thing on Earth, 2) much, much prefer being scum to town.

Because that would have been a waste.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

really.... we are going to push this to deadline?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mina please.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey ETL, is there anything at all that I've done that you consider to be townie? Just curious.

On D1, yes. Since then? Absolutely not.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Speaking of which:

ETL, something I've been thinking about: why didn't you put any scum tokens into this game? Given you seem to 1) think your scum game is the best thing on Earth, 2) much, much prefer being scum to town.

I answered this. It would have been a waste. just because I like it doesn't mean I would put all my effort into making sure I got it when I can use that to make sure another team mate got town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

not to mention this is a smallish game. being town here isn't as terrible as it would be elsewhere.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey ETL, I am going to vote you unless you post the reasons

your teammates

think I am scum before we get to 24 hours until deadline. At least one member of your team has thought I am scummy since 61 pages ago, and it's now been at least a week since you asked your teammates to post in your PT about me (by request from Mina). So give me your teammates' reasoning or I will vote you, and then you will be lynched. Thanks.

Then vote me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol... like literally.. what should I do? Yell at them? Call them names? Come on. I don't think they give a shit anymore. I asked for their input. I'm still waiting for it.

You want to lynch me for that instead of... ya know... real reasons, that's cool. I will flip town and I hope to fuck the rest of the players wise the hell up and lynch your ass tomorrow.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This game is shameful.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I mean, part of the problem is that it doesn't seem like you give a shit about actually figuring me or anyone else out. You just keep looking for reasons to justify a vote.

"If you dont do X, I will vote you."

Ok...? A+ scum hunting my friend. I almost hope you are town just so I can be like, wow you are fucking terrible.

Instead of actually trying to engage me, you argue about semantics and derail conversations. Instead of trying to find connections, you try to create them. Instead of reevaluating your reads, you go "Nope. These people have always been and will always be town for no reason whatsoever, which means only these people are scum, and I will never think about that ever again despite other evidence."

To be perfectly fair though, Mina is guilty of that too. Except she's actually tried a little bit whereas you haven't.

This entire game makes me sick. BB fucking off the entire game only to say "eh well I'll replace" in the eleventh fucking hour. Patrick popping in once every couple of days with a looks-town-but-says-nothing post. You with all your bullshit. And then there's Mina. Going wahwahwahIdunnowhaddado.

Come on. This is fucking terrible. I already told you to lynch me. You think it's the ones like Patrick who hop on with no reason? I don't really think so. It's people like Quil, who need to fabricate reasons so it doesn't LOOK like that's what they are doing, despite being given a green light. Since yesterday.

How's this for an ultimatum?

I'll just vote myself in 24 hours. Noon EST on Saturday.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What I don't get is how you can justify a scum read based on

people who are not here

.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right, me asking after whether your teammates have actually been legitimately scumhunting and trying to figure out the game instead of telling you who you should pretend they want you to push is me just trying to justify a vote on you.

I don't think they are even reading the game, man! I get snippets of "I think X" and that's about it. None of us have had the time or energy to look after each other's games. Like, it's not just this game... go look in any of the other ones. The one exception might be Anti/TTH, who are siblings, and communicate daily. But even that is a guess on my part. I haven't read any of the other games beyond ISOs to try to be less of a shmuck team mate. That's all anyone else has been able to do.

If I could quote the fucking PT, I would. But I can't. So either people believe the truth or they don't. There is literally nothing more I can do about it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Instead of reevaluating your reads, you go "Nope. These people have always been and will always be town for no reason whatsoever, which means only these people are scum, and I will never think about that ever again despite other evidence."

That's really, really rich coming from you.

You have got to be kidding me. It would be one thing to say this if I've been tunneling on you but I haven't. I've been looking at everyone. Continuously reevaluating. Trying to see if maybe I'm wrong about BB. Maybe I'm wrong about Patrick. I fucking went after Johnny instead of you until the very end of the day and would have gone back to him if I'd been here in time.

I've even reevaluated MINA ffs.... are you on drugs?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh your teammates? Easy. They know your alignment, so if you're scum they know who is town and therefore their scumhunting will be as fake as any Scum's.

Yeah I get that. I don't know if you are doing this on purpose or you just really don't see it, but there is a difference between fake scum hunting and laziness.

p-edit: Ok. I honest to god have no idea what else to tell you. The truth is the truth is the truth. What more can I say?? I asked. I'm waiting.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you have any idea how fucking frustrating this is?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And what about my reasons....?? I'm here, playing the fucking game. They aren't.

p-edit: al;dfkjal;dkjfal;dk please. Read. There have been several times I have mentioned my suspicions about Mina and Patrick. The only one I haven't mentioned overtly is BB because I don't fucking want him to be scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Just because I don't post everything I'm thinking doesn't mean it isn't happening. Like, there are some things I like to keep to myself so I can see how people react when they think I'm town reading them.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And despite it all, I come back to the same conclusion, which is that you don't give a fuck and you just want a lynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I fucking hate talking to you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Just because I don't post everything I'm thinking doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Great. So we're all supposed to just believe that you're reevaluating things in your head.

Or, ya know, use your brain to see it in what I do/say in the thread....

Are you seriously asking me to tell you how you should be scumhunting? I've posted my thoughts in the thread, it's not like it's been hidden. The only one I wasn't being open about was BB. Which I've now mentioned.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Can I talk to someone else please

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no quil. I was town reading you on d1. they all said, on d1, before shit got all fucked ip, that I was wrong about you and should look closer. so I did. and I agreed with them, all things I have posted in the thread. the case on you is mine. since d1, their involvement has gone to nil.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ok.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

that's mine you know...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

just lynch me already man. I'm done.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm sorry yall. lynch quil tomorrow.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

does it matter? once I'm out, they won't have any choice but to look at you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like all of that is great and all, but it's moot after my flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

We went all in for town on a single game.

Now you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mina, I don't really understand how you have missed my own thoughts regarding quil...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

you're using them as an appeal to lynch Quilford

cuz this ^

is blatantly false.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm sorry. I just can't do this anymore.

Please just lynch me now so you can get back on track. There is no AtE in a simple fucking request.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It was mostly D1, telling me BPC was town and quil wasn't, and I should question them more, but I wasn't interested in either of them at that time. Then the next day I decided to look into it now that I had a couple flips, so I did. At the time, I said "you sure on quil?" they all said "yeah". And then he picked a meaningless fight with me and motivated me into it. There were bits and pieces in site chat but I don't remember what it was and it wasn't a fleshed out case on him. They were dealing with their games, so I had to do it myself. They just pointed me there. Quil was the one common denominator. Yes, I do trust them implicitly. I still have to play the game myself. THEY were not the ones who convinced me, Mina. quil did.

p-edit: Hey quil, you are aware that I still haven't gotten anything from them, no matter how many pages you generate about it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's extremely frustrating being the messenger who's about to be shot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mina please. none of this matters. just lynch me. we have one more mislynch to spare.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol...

yeah. great plan.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Although her latest posts make me think town. Ughhhhhhhhhhhh

no goddammit. this is unacceptable. you lynch bb today and then me for the win tomorrow?

fucking no.

lynch me today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

fyi, your dumbass conspiracy theory posts make me think youre scum again and if I was scum I would have to mislynch you and BBmolla anyway

no because lynching me first is worse for you than pretending like you're paranoid about being wrong about me, because i'm the perfect bait for LYLO.

i'm not stupid. i'm certainly not a "dumbass". i know how to play scum, and i know how to fucking recognize it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ms you glorious man. you are one of only a few to catch my scum game early. scared the fuck out of me in that last game where I was with AP as GGscum with Guyett and flubber.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ms - the biggest thing is that you still scared me. it was imperative to remove you. i was unwilling to work with you. i didn't want to interact with you. you still caught me and that was terrifying.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i have no doubt lynching quil will end the game. however, the point i am trying to make in advocating my lynch today is strictly strategic - you need to understand this.

removing me from the game pre-lylo means in lylo, considering one of you or mina die tonight, that leaves only quil/patrick to choose from. that is a MUCH better choice than trying to decide between me/patrick,

specifically because of

inherent paranoia about my play.

there is no better selection. does that make sense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i made the same choice as catbug in sabo 2.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

it's about giving town it's best chance in LYLO and that does not include me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh*



I've played with him several times.

Not to mention... buddying is not something I do as scum. Ever.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You will do whatever it takes to make every single post look scummy when it isn't. It's really irritating.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why don't you do something productive instead of poking at me with bullshit every chance you get.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Furthermore, if I was going to use buddying as a tactic, why didn't I bother doing that with BB, who's far more susceptible to it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

removing me from the game pre-lylo means in lylo, considering one of you or mina die tonight, that leaves only quil/patrick to choose from. that is a MUCH better choice than trying to decide between me/patrick, specifically because of inherent paranoia about my play.

I don't even understand these scenarios though. In the second one, it seems like Quilford has to be town because the decision is between me and you.

The second is assuming he flips town, yes. BB/MS slot is not getting lynched today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

worst case scenarios.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you have no doubt that Quilford is scum, lynching you is a horrible scenario because I'm not inclined to lynch Quilford tomorrow if I'm alive and Mina doesn't sound like she is either. That's what I'm getting at when I say that your offer to be lynched makes no sense.

It makes sense to me. Explain this further please. I don't understand why you wouldn't consider quil? That is what makes no sense to me. That seems incredibly foolish.

Consider the scenario. Lynch me today, I flip town. You then lose either MS or Mina, giving you the following possible LYLO compositions:

Mina/Patrick/Quil
MS/Patrick/Quil

If you are already saying that you are not inclined to lynch Quil, despite him pushing a bad mislynch with nonsense, despite shying away from lynching serra/Johnny... Then who? Logically, you'd need to look at Mina or MS, depending on who remained after the NK. It literally makes no sense that you would remove quil from your pool. Please explain that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I mean, you are voting me already, so you already think I am scum, which already puts you in line for the above scenario. I know what I will flip. I get that you don't, but I do. Which allows me to know the choices town will be faced with tomorrow.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So if you can understand my perspective, I think you can understand what I'm saying.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I feel like I've made it obvious pretty much forever now that I think Mina and Quilford are town and that the last scum is you or bbmolla (now MS).

I wouldn't vote immediately in any endgame because its a terrible idea, but if faced with a choice between Quilford and MS, it would take alot to get me to vote Quilford.

My point being that in a scenario where you're town who's sure Quilford is scum, that's a pretty terrible situation to acquiesce to. Are you saying you didn't have a clear idea what my suspicions were from my posts then?

No I get what you say your suspicions are. That doesn't change what I think about Quil. I just think you are incredibly wrong.

And I don't think you understand. A LYLO where I exist is a LYLO where we lose. Period. If there's anything I'm good at, it's predicting movement. I already know what's going to happen. If we mislynch anyone but me today, I'm dead tomorrow and scum win. End of story. I know that already. I honestly don't think there's anything I could do or say that would change anyone's mind, which is unfortunate but true. I can't be in that position. It's autoloss. Lynching me today gives town a chance to reevaluate and talk over things without me as a distraction.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In the event of which quil dies today, I need to choose between Patrick/ETL, well if Patrick is scum he won cuz I probably will vote you, but it's less fuckery than quilford living scenario

this is why I need to go today ms. I'm town and I will not allow this in LYLO.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It doesn't matter anymore. I'm tired of arguing it when no one seems to get it. it's whatever.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'd still favour lynching ETL over him, and still favour lynching Metal Sonic after if an ETL lynch doesn't end of the game.

You are running through a forest with a blindfold on.

MS is super duper town.

I have no desire to discuss anything further. Everyone dancing around lynching me and not just doing it. Please. I'm done with this. This is the last game I have right now. I'm sorry for sucking so fucking terribly. It's really a shame. I could have done so well I think.

Town {Mina, MS}
? {Patrick}
Scum {Quil}

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh yeah and sthar wrote a letter to quil that i am supposed to paraphrase and i have no idea how. it's beautiful.

basically:

you aren't as hot as you think you are, go fuck yourself. he said that quil doesn't have the right to give him a time table for anything unless it involves a blow job, money or both, considering that my entire team's lack of free time is public and sitewide. he said he was actively reading the game in the beginning and was scumreading quil because he was being a useless sack of shit and pushing LHF wagon and arguing irrelevant semantics, and then sthar was unable to keep up with it. he caught up and now thinks patrick is scum and quil has his head stuck far up his own ass. he doesn't like Patrick because he is trying to set up multiple lynches and assuming the game goes another day rather than ending today with the lynch of his supposed scumread. he thinks everyone townreading mina means she is probably town. he says it looks like quil and ms are "trying to win the game". He also says for quil to go sit on something sharp.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

what...?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Honestly, that sort of thing should get him a temp ban if he actually said it. If you're trying that as a desperate throw you went too far.

why the fuck should that get him a ban???

and are you seriously suggesting i made it up? what the hell. if i was going to make shit up, why didn't i just do it when i was first asked rather than waiting this fucking long??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh. my fucking god.

sthar says you are attempting to take the "moral high ground" in order to justify lynching me on rather than logic. he says it's a scum tactic.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sthar says Patrick is trying to discredit metal sonic by trying to make it look like everything he posts has an agenda. He says he's doing the same thing to me by dismissing everything I say as AtE when it isn't and suggesting that sthar's broken rules when he hasn't. he says Patrick is doing this in order to get mina and quil to ignore us so he can successfully get his last mislynches in me and ms.

he says to go look at faith plus one if you're so interested in my emotional meta.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

or sabo 2 for that matter. where i also "poured emotion into the thread and insulted people".

try knowing what the fuck you are talking about before using selective meta.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

from a game you weren't even in ffs.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

faith and sabo 2 - both town games by the way.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's more that I think you're capable of doing as scum, whereas previously I thought you might be town for getting angry and being such a huge pain.

if this is the case, then it is a NULL tell, and not a SCUM tell as you tried to posit in 2027 with your single game reference.

and now you backpedal on it when i show exactly what you are trying to do.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I looked at your play in Antihero Redemption, where you clawed and scraped your way to a scum win by pouring emotion into the thread, insulting people, and expressing disgust at the gamestate.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

this doesn't say anything about "you do this as both town and scum". this very strongly implies that you are trying to use it as a scum tell.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

a null tell is useless.

go on. tell me why i'm scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

anything usefully related to the game.

this is also laughably false.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ultimately, it's your role PM.

You're scum because almost all your votes in this game apart from RVS ones have sucked,

And this is different from the rest of the players, how? You need to show how my voting patterns are significantly different from other players. Otherwise, this is filler bullshit.

your reasoning for almost everything makes babies cry in the streets,

... this is... this is your reasoning?

and because you feel super-evasive in actually getting into specifics of your case against Quilford, despite apparently being convinced he's scum.

This is false. I've given my own reasons for why I think Quil is scum from the moment I started to think so myself. I've never been "super-evasive" about anything. I've never delayed giving my own thoughts on the matter. The only thing that was delayed was getting a response from my team. Which, when it came, you disregarded.

You disengaged from some painful argument you were having with Quilford earlier today saying that you wouldn't argue with scum, but that you'd explain it to any other player in the game. I tried to get you to do that several times and you completely ignored it. I think if you were a town player who thinks Quilford is dirty you'd be keen to prop up your points against him and try and convince me that my read is wrong, instead of having to be dragged kicking and screaming to it.

What have I ignored? If I legitimately didn't respond to something, it's because I legitimately fucking missed it. Repeat yourself. This is nothing new.

Second, and again, I have given my thoughts about quil very clearly, several times..

I've also felt like on many occasions you've just been grabbing hold of whatever you can without even thinking about what it means re-alignment. Your comments on me just now are just one case of it. Do you actually, genuinely believe that I was calling your attitude a scum-tell and then backpedaled to calling it a null tell when you hit me with your super l33t argument?

Yes. What is the purpose of making fun of me this way, other than to discredit the argument without actually proving it wrong?

The real reason I brought up that game is because I think some people may be town-reading you because of your attitude, and I want to demonstrate that it's a mistake. I just see you point-scoring in all your scraps with people all game. To an extent there's that in some of Quilfords arguing with you as well, but more recently his exchanges with MS and you left me with the impression he was trying to figure things out. From you, I don't get that vibe. Like, before you even respond, I can imagine you'll pick out whatever you think is most attackable and make another post full of hyperbole about it.

More fucking discredits. There is not a real point in this post about why you think I'm scum YET! It has been mentioned time and time again that my emotions are not alignment indicative. MS, of anyone else here, knows that better than you I would think. The biggest thing here is that it seems to really worry you that people might be townreading me. That says a fuck of a lot more about YOUR alignment than anything else, Patrick. If you were town, what the hell do you care that someone else is being townread? Town don't seek out to destroy townreads. They seek to convince others of scumreads. Yet it never occurred to you that you might be wrong, because you actually DO have an agenda here.

The biggest reason is that Quilford and Mina are town, bringing you down to one of two. I had my period of paranoia earlier this game day, then slowly started to realise there was no substance to the case you were making. Between you and Metal Sonic, I think you're the more likely to be scum by a fair margin.

Unfortunately, you are dead fucking wrong. MS is painfully town imo, even more than Mina at this point.

That's a pretty brief summary, but I'm not going to waste time building a big case with post numbers and quotes when I expect you to be lynched anyway before too long. Like you've told Quilford enough times, it's very hard to convince scum that they are scum.

Except I'm town, you are way the hell off, and you haven't presented a single valid point.

p-edit buncha posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey, ETL, token claim. Because I don't believe in the SLIGHTEST you used five tokens on one game to make someone town.

We did. Sorry to disappoint you.

5 points on the large so Anti could be town. His schedule overwhelmed him so TTH took over and they switched games.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ ETL reply me I had a question

Sorry. Can you repeat?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And Mina, if you have ever played with scumAnti, it would be very fucking clear why we did that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like, the logic is that TTH, me and sthar can all deal with either alignment. Sure we have our preferences, but any chance of Anti getting scum was autoloss because, sorry to say, he falls apart.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

MS do you think Patrick is town? Sthar does not. He thinks Quil is just lost behind confbias.

p-edit: Oh ok. End of D1 when he was arguing semantics with me, over word usage. It was just like Titus in Street Racers. Noise making for the sake of noise making. Generating meaningless, non-game-related posts, one after another, to make the game difficult to parse later on and to put himself in a position to say AHA LOOK I MADE CONTENTS when it really wasn't content. Like the whole thing literally had no pertinence on the game state or anyone's alignment. And on top of it all, he said he was TOWNREADING ME at the time, and yet still arguing with me over nonsense? Why?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, do you think I could be wrong about quil maybe? i'm having a really hard time getting away from that. I see good reasons for both.

ped-t: that is bad.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

the other post not the one after it

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mainly cause you can't stfu about lynching yourself

i did stfu about it. no one understands it anyway so whatever.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Anyway I need to go now. When is the deadline? I wont really be able to post a lot until tomorrow afternoon.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I have been working with you ms. and with Mina.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

never lied about my team mates involvement. they were never hands on with this game. it was always small comments. I knew anti/TTH were scum reading quil. never knew why. sthar is the only so far who has gotten back to it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hi etl

i am reading day 1 right now

i am finding some intersting stuff

thanks, quilford!

hi.

you phone posting? talk to me

i too am an attention whore like quil

that is why i can see his scum very easily :^)

i was yes. i just got to work. i'll be busy for a few hours here getting ramped up on May stuff but will be more available after that. like around 4 pm ish?

reading.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum,

especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

Right, me asking after whether your teammates have actually been legitimately scumhunting and trying to figure out the game instead of telling you who you should pretend they want you to push is me just trying to justify a vote on you.

I don't think they are even reading the game, man!

I get snippets of "I think X" and that's about it.

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum,

especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

no quil. I was town reading you on d1. they all said, on d1, before shit got all fucked ip, that I was wrong about you and should look closer. so I did. and I agreed with them, all things I have posted in the thread. the case on you is mine.

since d1, their involvement has gone to nil.

The biggest issue with quilford is that

I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum

, especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened. I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

THEY were not the ones who convinced me, Mina.

quil did.

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and

my

whole team

thinks he's scum, especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

never lied about my team mates involvement.

they were never hands on with this game.

it was always small comments.

I knew anti/TTH were scum reading quil. never knew why.

sthar is the only so far who has gotten back to it.

And of course the second quotes all come after Mina, Patrick and I started putting pressure on her to explain why her team thought I was scum.

I love the attempt to make a false contradiction out of this. None of this is a lie.

Anti, TTH and Sthar all went "HEY QUIL IS SCUM, YOU SHOULD POKE THAT SHIT" and so I did. I've said multiple times now that the reasoning I've given is mine. I'm not sure what lie you think is in there when it's all the truth.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UTTERLY SHITE VCA

Right. So "utterly shite" it caught at least one scum? Are you kidding me right now?

I have used VCA successfully since like... forever. Since Faith plus One, hydraing with mastin, where she taught me how to use it effectively and to recognize when leaning on it could be disastrous.

You continually trying to discredit the analysis because it points not only to JOHNNY but to YOU is fucking incredibly scummy.

p-edit: posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, the bolded bits contradict each other. Unambiguously so in the second pair of quotes.

lol except they don't? Again, and again, and again, I am going to continue to repeat to you what has always been true, my impression of your play at the end of the day made me think you were scum. It was and always has been my reasoning. What exactly is the contradiction? Nothing has changed.

p-edit more posts...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I haven't been making any points about what ETL's team has or has not been doing

Now who is lying?

I seem to recall and ultimatum thrown my way regarding my team mates behavior, and not mine.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"especially after the Johnny flip" could just be an ambiguous miswording.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Not to mention that if it was an ambiguous miswording she would have said so on one of the other two times I pulled her up on it. So don't try and invent some bullshit now.

Ho-ly shit.

I HAVE.

EVERY TIME.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

honestly, i don't believe vca either

but carry on

yeah that's fine, but i do and i like it and it works for me so i will use it. i'm not an havent asked anyone to take it and use it. i've only ever offered it to show my thought process.

the act of discrediting it as quil has done is only an attempt to sweep the conclusions under the rug.

p-edit: ok.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no thanks to your shitty wording, quil has some ammo to shoot you with.

yes but my shitty wording is not a new thing. it is very well known and documented and easily looked-up evidence that i hae a hard time explaining myself.

like, my thoughts are a jumble and i type them as they come out. this was something quil tried to pin me with on D1, and accused me of being scum for NOT perfecting my posts, to which my argument was ... why the fuck would i do that? i'm not concerned with whether i sound scummy or not, i'm concerned with getting my thoughts in the thread.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't, either, which is why I was pushing her on it--and Patrick, token lies ARE really relevant to ETL's alignment here

mina for god's sake it is the truth. you will see.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Aaaaaaaand AH still switched out with TTH

Sounds like an empirical situation

I mentioned that in the post I claimed which game we used it on. his schedule was fucked.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:

[EspeciallyTheLies]

why did you do that?

because i've been looking at patrick's ISO. and i like it less than i like you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm trying really hard not to simply see this as the end product of a realisation that Patrick and Mina really don't look like they're gonna budge on me today, and so she will be lynched unless she takes drastic measures

but it's hard

this literally makes zero sense as a viable scum tactic.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So ETL, it's not that you don't think Quilford is scum, just that you now think Patrick is scummier? But just talk. I prefer to hear your thought process when I'm not trying to push it in a certain direction. You're being very cryptic.

sorry. i'm not trying to be cryptic.

ok so the biggest issue right now is the fact that patrick's attack on me contains absolutely no valid reasons. a lot of it is close to utter nonsense ("your logic makes babies cry", "you are scum because i think you are scum"). It's all really ... very bad. At least quil has references and legitimate questions. I don't feel like Patrick has brought up anything legitimate regarding my play and then refusing to discuss it.

i had a chance to chat with sthar last night/yesterday for a bit as well, and he is of the firm belief that quil and i are simply butting heads as a play style thing and quil clearly doesn't know how to read me.

its more that i'm questioning whether i have been tunneling on quil and ignoring patrick. gut instinct is that i want to lynch the fuck out of quil, but my brain is goin "don't disregard the reads of someone who is not involved emotionally". does that make sense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't want to lynch quil anymore. MS take a step back for a moment and just consider what I've said about Patrick.

VOTE: Patrick

[EspeciallyTheLies]

did you even read #2315????

yeah

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Quil will never feel pressured unless Mina or Patrick express a scumread on him

Somebody help me!

It's in Patrick's best interests to stay on Quil's side, as he's got two easy, viable lynches ready to go.

Patrick is never going to be lynched. You and Mina, and Quil, are all bamboozled by him. I will be lynched tomorrow, no matter what, and that will be game. I don't really... have any motivation left.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But I don't believe he's scum anymore.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mina, I fully understand and accept that I have been a shitty player this game, and I am very sorry for that if we lose because of it.

pedit: What test?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What is a "stonewall"?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mina - it is largely due to the argument he had with me, where he gave literally nothing valid as reasons for calling me scum. Why you are not even looking at that and going "...er.... yeah..." is beyond me. It is blatant. Disgustingly so.

Additionally, sthar has brought up several points against Patrick, which I posted.

You think quil is town. I think ms is town. Why do you refuse to look at anything I tell you? Nevermind that I'm shitty at trying to explain it, look for yourself, please. It is so painfully obvious in his ISO. Please. It is better if you see it anyway, than if I try to explain it badly.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Lack of ETL posting and surfeit of everyone else posting emotional reactions is an excellent sign, though (e.g., I don't see Patrick scum being unable to sleep in anticipation of the flip).

I guess that means we can continue fluff-posting!

I only got a couple hours sleep Monday night. passed out immediately after work. just woke up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

it's ok. yall lynched me yes?

now get Patrick.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well, I don't know whether this little chat helped or not. See you all on the other side.

^ see? he knows this won't end the game.

I'm sorry everyone.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm town you scumbag.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

my one failing is always being unable to explain myself

this is my last game for a while I think. I just suck.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If it's not you its quil. I refuse to believe one of ms or Mina are actually scum

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Good luck yall.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

driving. it in my ISO ms

[EspeciallyTheLies]

reread argument