[M] Newbie 1440: Maestro's Manic Mafia - DAY 3

[Smudger]

Vote: Smudger

I hate smudges on my clothes

this one is in your face

VOTE: Atlasblade

[Smudger]

Okay a few General Housekeeping questions I like to ask:
1. What time zone are you in?

GMT +4

2. How often do you expect to be on and posting?

regularly Sunday through Thursday, not so much Friday and Saturday

3. How many games have you played in?

Quite a few look at my wiki

4. What is your opinion on Lynch all Lurkers/Liars?

agree

5. What side do you prefer playing as?

Mafia or TP, I find it challenging and amusing

[Smudger]

VOTE: Naio

Serious vote ^

You seem pretty set on voting someone in effort to be silly. Trying to fit in, are we?

hmmmmm this appears forced to me....

[Smudger]

Note to self (and all listening): if Splash flips scum, watch scot.

noted

[Smudger]

Ok having now read to this point, the reactions to Peabody from some and I would say that they have merit, but not a lot.

@ Naio

30 which is it Naio, is he scum and worthy of a vote or not, because it seems to contradict itself. you state it is a serious vote, but then seem to back out of it with the line regarding remembering page one in two weeks time. Granted you then go on to broaden your vote, and what you say is agreeable to an extent.

With your observation regarding players who begin aggressively and push as leaders of town, while that does happen and quite a lot in my limited experience, I have found it proves nothing, I have played in a game where I was partnered with a very aggressive player who did as you, said and for a while was considered town and a lead player, we were both Mafia, in fact I think he is playing in this game if my read of the IC post is correct? Acting Method are you an Alt for Thor? The flip side of that is I have played in other games where a town player did the same thing. So I do not think it is indicative of a persons alignment, which is what you are trying to suggest is it not?

@ Splash

TP = Third Party, basically any other role that i snot aligned to town or mafia. Serial Killer is one, or Survivor another. we will not have them in this set up

[Smudger]

I agree. Peabody's been making a lot of inquisitions, which I guess is pro-town, but the forced nature of them seem a little off putting, like he's more interested in APPEARING pro-town than BEING pro town.

if you could elaborate on the differences that you have mentioned that might be helpful.

[Smudger]

Acting Method are you an Alt for Thor?

ahhh the answer was before my eyes,

I've pretty much stole borrowed this intro from Thor665, who is pretty awesome player.

yes he is, and no you are not.... him that is.

[Smudger]

This seems a tad bit reactionary to me, since we appear to be out of the RVS stage.

agree, but it was evidentially my first post and my RVS, although when I posted I had not realised RVS had actually been bought o a quick end, but I think you will find that as you read down you I catch up..



this is crunching my brain cells

I'm not sure about this post. "This is usually true, but also this could be true. This is evidence, but also maybe not..."

sorry missing your point, if you can give me a steer I will gladly expand.

[Smudger]

@Aphix

Your post 50 just want to examine it a little, why is starting the game with an RVS post strange. In particular when its appearance is explained? Also please explain more fully what you mean by filler? Some key examples would be good and then maybe you might want to put some meat on those bones you just threw into the thread there. Basically elaborate why it is filler... in your opinion that is. You see my aim is to ask questions and to challenge what people in the game are saying. Sort of lets me put facts together for later on or when I feel someone is only half heartedly taking part. Then I push a little to see what falls out and then if needs must interrogate a little further. So if you could I would appreciate a little more explanation on your statement.

@ Splashmaster

need a little more actually as you have not answered my question fully.

In addition, why are you waiting for Ravenspaw before you comment further? You sound a little like Someone else and that is not good as it is knowing as sheeping others and leads people to think bad things about you

Like now



VOTE: Splashmaster

[Smudger]

@ SplashMaster

Post 55


The point of my observation was that, to me, you were merely echoing what had already been said by Acting Method. This is basically referred to as sheeping, while your motives are understandable and now you have explained it there is still doubt in my mind, in fact this could actually be referred to as "filler". There are others currently taking part, players whom you could interact with, and put pressure on to get a reaction and go from there. to be honest your post is a rather lazy way of explaining why you have no vote in place.

Now back to the other reason for my vote on you

you said

I agree. Peabody's been making a lot of inquisitions, which I guess is pro-town, but the forced nature of them seem a little off putting, like he's more interested in

APPEARING pro-town than BEING pro town.

my question was

if you could elaborate on the differences that you have mentioned that might be helpful.

the explanation I was looking for was the differences between those points I have now bolded in your post. IMO you are yet to fully answer the question.

@ aphix

your post 58

where did I try to take it back to RVS? have you in fact read my opening posts? and of course my response to your observation?

Further you reply about my question on "filler". You have read my post 54 in particular the part that covers your question? this -

"You see my aim is to ask questions and to challenge what people in the game are saying. Sort of lets me put facts together for later on or when I feel someone is only half heartedly taking part. Then I push a little to see what falls out and then if needs must interrogate a little further"

so the same type of question to you as I have put to SplashMaster, if you could explain the difference between asking questions and content?

@ SplashMaster

your post 57, if you think I am aggressive you will have a shock playing with other players on this site, compared to them I am mild mannered, if you want I can get aggressive..

[Smudger]

Probably going to have to back off on my Peabody case.

I forgot to ask you about this, why? because you got some flack for it? or you think there is no case?

@ Naio

just so you do not miss it there is a question for you in post 42

41: this concerns me. So it's too early for any reads? Too early for attempting to play the game? Participate? Generate content? Early reads may not be helpful but they can be used for all sorts of things. Instead you choose to sit on a fence and not participate which is scum behavior. No interaction can't help town here. Perhaps rarely helps town.

VOTE: atlasblade

I'm sure in a few posts it'll turn out to be.a pressure vote or something.

hopefully...

[Smudger]

Ok, first and foremost

someones tone or the way in which they express themselves is not indicative of their alignment and cannot be suggest as a strong reason to suspect someone. I thought we had had this discussion?

@ aphix

please show me where I am "dodging questions, comments or statements that are either directed at me or about me?

the unrelated quotes you refer to are indeed related if you read them and understand what I am accusing you off, which is basically a case of "pot - kettle".

As for when someone posts and the timings between them, let me tell you something that may help you, it means absolutely nothing unless they were contradictory to each other, which they are not.

The idea of the game is to ask questions, have you asked any questions at all? anything that would help locate and eliminate scum? my questions are geared to do that and I have already explained my strategy and see no reason why I should stop doing what I am doing, or for that matter restate that strategy.

your case against me is weak and opportunistic, I see no reasoning behind it or actual analysis of what is being said if you want to criticise my post content then give examples and show reason/method.

now answer my question please and stop evading, theres a good boy.

[Smudger]

Woah woah woah woah, did I say aggressive? No sir! I, uh, I just noticed you're, uh, asking some questions! Who said Smudger was aggressive? Not me! Nope!

Smudger seems aggressive compared to Peabody's defensive. Does that means anything, or is it more just different styles of play?

Anyway, on what is the difference between appearing pro-town and being pro-town? Well, I don't really know! I thought I did when I posted that. Its the ultimate crux of Mafia. If I had a good answer I'd be much better at this game!

thank you for answering the question. the point is you made a statement and an accusation but cannot explain that accusation and so it fits what aphix would call filler. this does not lift my vote from you to be honest all it does is strengthen it. but then it is not just this, it is the fact you seem to be blundering around and not doing much other than make statements which are baseless and you cannot fully explain when questioned on, you are also now seemingly prone to backtracking based on your post 68.

Smudger's method of posting irks me the wrong way, but I'm not sure if it's playstyle or not

I get this a lot, but so I fully understand what irks you, please explain?

We should call this game SE vs. Newbies because there is certainly a divide between the two! Smudger and Peabody don't like me, aphix doesn't like smudger, naio doesn't like peabody, and I don't like anyone! I think that, for balance reasons, the scumteam would be comprised of newbies and seasoned players alike, so this can't be the case, though.

I had to go check and yes you are right it does look like the division of players is as you have stated, but this is in no way indicative of all newbie games. your use of the wording "don't like" is fine but I would say suspicious is a better word in fact, in relation to my thoughts on you I am highly suspicious of you. as for the composition of the scum team that is a very interesting observation, why in particular would you say it in the way you have?

[Smudger]

I would like to hear a lot more from

Acting Method, Ravenspaw and Naio as all are very quite, to varying degrees.

@ MOD can you prod Ravenspaw?

so for now my two main suspects are SplashMaster and aphix, if they are both scum they are playing terribly if they are town then they need to up their game drastically. I will also now look at the interaction between each of them to see what has and is happening.

[Smudger]

@Scotpgot

You seem to be slipping by un noticed and having now read your ISO I was wondering what are your current thoughts on those that are active?

[Smudger]

Here. You plopped a vote for a silly reason, asked your questions, and never reapplied a vote.

I have explained this and my vote has in fact been reapplied, or did you miss that?

as for asking questions

ONCE AGAIN PEOPLE

that is

WHAT YOU DO IN THIS GAME!

If you do not like being asked questions then don't play

So if you find it a sticking point then please pursue it and apply pressure to me, otherwise let it go and move on and get hunting.

[Smudger]

You just are posting to post now. You are getting close to just personal attacks which is pretty uncalled for honestly. Asking questions isn't what this game is about. Uncovering information is. All you are doing is muddying the game. It's not helpful.

Perhaps I missed your question among the avalanche of words you call posts. Care to repeat it?

Honestly you are just coming off as attempting to be all knowing king of awesome here. Perhaps trying to get the "newbs" to listen to you because obviously if you treat people like they are beneath you you have to know what's up right? Get off it. Try maybe one post at a time instead of plastering a wall of garbage that in no way is anyone going to get through it and remember what's on top.

personal attacks, where? the only personal attacks I see developing are in your last post directed towards me, is that the way you honestly play?

As for your response it Confirms One thing you have no case and are rather lost for words as well as a touch of Paranoia. If you cannot discuss the points being made and converse in a manner that would prove you have nothing to hide and are open then the only conclusion that can be drawn is you are scum and cannot answer questions as they will provide proof of the same

try reading something through slowly before reacting to it and putting a case together that has some substance, your attack on me is weak.

The number of times someone posts is not relevant the content of those posts is. I could post a huge wall but I choose not to and to break them down, so that people do not miss questions or the point I am trying to make. The content of my posts are valid, relevant and designed to engage people is discussion.

I would also say that your statement concerning the asking of questions is ill informed and wrong. How else do you engage in finding the information your are talking about without asking questions? My questions are not muddying the game, in fact they are doing the opposite, they allow me to gauge how people play and then put together notes that I can refer back to should someone contradict what they have previously said or in fact conveniently forget what they have said. You see that is the way liars are trapped, they cannot keep their story straight and is in fact the bedrock of any investigation into what is happening or has happened.

As for questions the following posts contain questions to you that you have either not answered or answered but I find that the answers given are not fully covering the questions.

54
60
69

If you have nothing to hide then you would answer questions fully and unconditionally unless you are able to provide a reason why the answer would be detrimental to town, which in the case of the questions I have asked you, I would find surprising if the answers are detrimental to town.

your latest diatribe has convinced me to do this,

VOTE: aphix

[Smudger]

aphix

none of your post 76 constitutes a case and none of it is relevant to scum hunting or identifying scum. In fact it is exactly what you accuse me of, filler.

Yet again you still are unable to adequately read and comprehend what I am asking you, the content of my questions to others or the reasons behind them. Your feeling that I am a detriment to town is woefully off the mark and I cannot be held in account for your inability to understand one of the main aspects of this game, that of asking questions. How can you express an opinion, which you are fully entitled to do, without responding to or asking questions. It is the basis of human communication.

My vote stands you are scum and have been found out, it is you that is muddying the waters and it is you who is a detriment to town.

now if you would like to continue this debate then by all means feel free and so as your head does not hurt having to read lots of words put together, that you have stated you can not really be bothered reading lets keep this to short one sentence questions and interactions.

I will go first:

why is my vote on you not justified?

[Smudger]

is this hibernating....?

Scot, you are beginning to "ïrk me".

[Smudger]

you just are, you are not doing much IMO.

[Smudger]

Is that it? A lot of advice and nothing else?

[Smudger]

VOTE: theslimer3

[Smudger]

Smudger, do you post as you read or after you read?

depends how much time I have, bit of both really?

[Smudger]

Do you think they are scum together?

Waiting for a reply to my last question to aphix and any follow up he wants to post

[Smudger]

Smudger: The reason I asked you if you post as you read is to determine if your RVS vote was placed before you read the thread. Was it?

yes is that not obvious in my opening posts?

Its a mistake I make occasionally - open a new game and stick in an RVS post, then realise I had not checked I was at the bottom of the current thread page.

[Smudger]

@smudger: I don't honestly have a care why your post is on me enough to guess about it.

pardon? do you mean vote?

[Smudger]

@peabody: believe it or not, I have no real scumreads. The majority of posts to me don't look alignment insightful. Just opinionated.
And a strong sense of closed mindedness.

and you of course are above that?

[Smudger]

@peabody: believe it or not, I have no real scumreads. The majority of posts to me don't look alignment insightful. Just opinionated.
And a strong sense of closed mindedness.

and you of course are above that?

I won't say yes, but I will say you are.
It's a hard thing to see in yourself or even admit.

Also why do you insist on posting one sentence per response?

you could be right, but I don't see it, and I don't always, is it annoying you?

Slimer anyone can be flippant in their attitude

[Smudger]

Okay sry for not posting so much lol but here are my reads atm:


Scopgot - I think he feels strongly town to me

Aphix - (

Naio - He's null for me atm

Splashmaster- Suspicious considering his original arguments back a few pages

Peabody - Null or he's leaning towards town for me

theslimer3 - I feel it's a tossup atm considering he hasn't been here for a while. I'll probably look more into him

Smudger - I feel like he's leaning towards town

The acting Method - Personally I feel that something with him is off. More so than Splash tbh.

any chance you could elaborate on any of these as I don't see some of them

in particular your reads on Scot and TAM

[Smudger]

Aphix my vote is not on you, so why you would say it was at that time is weird, when it is very obvious where my current vote is if you were actually reading the thread you cant miss it really?

[Smudger]

sorry should have added this to the above post but was side tracked. Defiine doing very little please

[Smudger]

Prod dodge on a long weekend will be active Monday

[Smudger]

well, naio's post at the end of day one had me thinking too, his opening posts day two are scummy as well, in fact very lynchable, but I actually believe it to be a noob mistake. I am more interested in Slimer and Scot tbh, and Slimer remains top of my list right now


VOTE: Slimer

[Smudger]

its a noob mistake.. that is my current stance, I can assure you that stance is correct.

[Smudger]

at the moment yes I stand by my thoughts D1, nothing has changed them as yet

[Smudger]

No confirmation or anything to link me to mollie? Not even a little?

It would only make sense if you did if you were trying to after all. You are trying to get me lynched, aren't you? Not trying to show that you have persistence. Because right now that's all you're showing me

let it rest for a while….

[Smudger]

I'm leaving for work now and won't be home again for about 16 hours, but I'd like to respond to the minor accusations being thrown my way.

All I have to say is this: I voted Splash Day one, post one. Then based on my reads, never changed it. Go back through my ISO and look. I had a vote on Splash the WHOLE time. I can't imagine that would be in the scum playbook. I for sure thought I'd be cleared when Splash flipped goon. So my question in response to Smudger and Peabody: "Really?"

really, yes really, its not what you are saying is what you are trying not to say that is concerning me...

[Smudger]

Slimer

Mollie made eight posts, of which the following mention you

158
174
163


you have made 40 posts of which you interact or mention Mollie in


157
177
187

I also find your 112 reeking of what you talk about in 141

then there is this…..

K, Mollie, claim pls. There's like 2 hours left and I d hate for you to turn up a Doctor or something

here fishy fishy fishy….

[Smudger]

You know, you haven't really shown why either of us are scum at all.

Other people may have pointed out their opinions, but from the looks of it, you seem to be bandwagoning ideas. In fact i'm certain that's what you're doing. Not to mention you haven't really done a single thing yesterday, and it's as though you're repeating the pattern.

One scum at a time. do read back my first post D2, what do I say?

[Smudger]

I think it is very obvious to you what I am saying and you are playing the dumb card deliberately. in my opinion your late post D1 regarding a possible PR is quite specific. why would you choose Doctor of the possible town roles that could be in the game? if you are town and had reason to believe there was a doctor in the game then you would not fish for a doctor or even mention "doctor" the only conclusion I can draw is that you have prior knowledge concerning possible town roles, which of course means you are scum. so which is it?

[Smudger]

As for my conclusion concerning the posts I have listed, your interaction with Mollie is staged tbh. Not many of the other players even notice that Mollie is not active until later on when the wagon begins to roll.

[Smudger]

Slimer

you need to stop attempting to make my argument pointless and seem something it is not. I am fully aware of what claiming is you do not have to teach me to suck eggs. I am also very much aware of the difference between Mafia roles and Town roles. I also fully understand what buddying is etc etc etc, so if you would like to stop the higher than thou attitude it would be helpful.In fact there is absolutely no need of you to communicate with me like a child. As for my deductive skills they work fine thank you and my playing style suits me well.

You could have simply said, "Mollie it is time for a claim if you have a PR or you will be lynched", but you were very specific in naming the Doctor role, why? I have played this game set up enough times to realise that the Doctor role is a very strong PR when in play, and if played well will win the game for town.

Its a slip in my mind, you stated "Doctor" because as scum you can communicate with other scum and will know pretty much which column or row we are playing as it will be a process of elimination as scum can talk to each other and know what roles their team holds.

[Smudger]

My argument does not suck and if the so called experienced players cannot see what I am saying hen they are blind. I will say no more than This Naio is not scum and I and the rest of town should trust him explicitly

Slimer you had the chance to sit back and let me use you as bait, but obviously my cryptic hint was missed, that or, as you became uber defensive, you are in fact scum. Based on my observations and your reactions, tied to other reactions I am very much convinced you are scum and either Scot or TAM are probably your surviving buddy.

[Smudger]

Slimer your persistence with lecturing Naio is rather filling the thread with fluff. He is town and you are not. Having now read TAM vs Scot, Scot you are probably Town. TAM is doing exactly as Slimer is doing focusing on Naio at the expense of everything else,


Naio is town, noob town who is learning the game, he is 150% TOWN.

[Smudger]

TAM if it was not a player of your experience making that last post I would have gone ape on it, but I am not going to as you have only confirmed my suspicions. He has not claimed Town, I have claimed him Town.

[Smudger]

Slimer your persistence in not seeing the wood for the trees is laughable, in fact, no its actually a sad indictment on your attempts to coerce the rest of the players in this game away from what is happening here and leaves only one simple fact you are scum and now it is clear that TAM is.

Both you and TAM are experienced players and yet you are deliberately ignoring what I have said from the beginning of D2 with regards to what I know and why I know it. If you had been town both of you, or at least one of you, the one who was town, would have steered us away from this and seen what was being said. But no, you both continue to play dumb, and even with Tams removal of his vote on Naio he continues to walk blindly down the road by asking why I believe Naio's claim?!

I would like to ask you Slimer why your pinion on Naio is now shifting? IO is shifting,as is TAMs, is it the fact that the easy lynch candidate that you and TAM had begun to set up is no longer such.

Naio does not have to defend himself to anyone.

Naio, you are town I can confirm you are town, you do not have to continue to explain yourself to Slimer or TAM at this point.

Lynch today is Slimer, tomorrow it is TAM.

[Smudger]

shoot that should read

"I would like to ask you Slimer why your opinion on Naio is now shifting? as is TAMs, is it the fact that the easy lynch candidate that you and TAM had begun to set up is no longer such."

[Smudger]

shoot that should read

"I would like to ask you Slimer why your opinion on Naio is now shifting? as is TAMs, is it the fact that the easy lynch candidate that you and TAM had begun to set up is no longer such."

Because he's a newbie. You're not. If you're town, you'll be the first person i've ever black listed.

VOTE: smudger

I'm not talking to you.
Naio may speak for you if you need to ask anything else.

there is a very strong reason why I know he is town, do you have any idea how dumb you are looking right now?

and nice childish attitude


TAM what? it does not matter what you say or how you care to bold it it is irrelevant, based on what I know.

[Smudger]

Sod this, I don't want to do this but I am going to:

I am the Cop and TAM and Slimer know that, they are trying to confuse the thread with this crap.

Naio was my investigation N1 because of his play prior to the lynch, I say as much in my opening post D2, he came back to me as Town.

so that means we are playing either against a mafia role blocker and there is a doc out there or we just have mafia goons to contend with, which is the way I am tending to go with this. Ask yourselves this. two experienced players are seeing what I am putting in the thread and know what I am saying and yet they continue to point FoS at Naio.

Your lynches are TAM and Slimer I am sure of it due to their play and the way they are trying to manipulate this thread.

When we go to lynch I expect to die tonight as they know who I am this is why I am claiming now. you then have a good idea who your targets are, should I actually live then I can give you a report on anyone you care to choose.

[Smudger]

You're still a dick, Smudger

good job you know I have one, as for you I could call you Shemale, maybe?

[Smudger]

And besides, who claims just to prove one person innocent? Especially when there's only one scum left. It's as though you're wifoming this or something.


But I suppose if you're lying, you'll be easily caught do to the grid matrix setup.

But still, the claim makes absolutely no sense just to share your results, even the soft claim.

you questioned my ability to play and yet you are supposedly an SE and did not apparently see the soft claim? in fact I crumbed my role back in D1, but hey so what you are scum.

Peabody why are you voting TAM over Slimer?

[Smudger]

But still, the claim makes absolutely no sense just to share your results,

no sense?, you were preparing a wagon on Naio, it made every sense to me,

[Smudger]

TAM I agree with you concerning me as a prime Aphix's death because of our history D1. In fact when I saw he had been the N1 NK it was clear to me why he was chosen. Now you also state that you could not see why I investigated Naio, but I make that quite clear in the opening salvos of D2, and I would suggest that most would agree it a good reason to do so.

However I take issue with your statement that you spotted my soft claim late, it just does not fit right. in particular when you look at the interchanges between Slimer, yourself and I, to be honest, and as I said on a few occasions you had to be blind to miss it, or doing it intentionally.

I maintain that you and Slimer are prime scum suspects and even with the two walls you have posted I see no reason to changing that view point.

But there is something else which sort of has me wondering again about you and Slimer, my statements have been very clear, deliberately so, that you are the 2 remaining scum, but that cannot be the case can it? The set up only allows for one scum to be left after Mollies Lynch and why neither Slimer or you have pointed that out seems strange, in fact why it has not been pointed out but the other SE, Peabody is also strange.

[Smudger]

No I was deliberate in what I said you were both scum buddies…

[Smudger]

nope don't like TAM at all… bye bye
VOTE: TAM

[Smudger]

Why is it scummy voting for scum TAM, you think I am going to back down? Your whole "sorry I sound scummy because
I am the IC and only trying to help People sucks,

Swing low, or high either way your chariots' hit a rut.....

[Smudger]

Bahhhh good luck town

[Smudger]

I looked st Scot N2 and obvious got a town result. Not gust.it mattered ss I Gog NKd. Good game Peabody, but I will be honest after my result in Scot itbwas clear to Md you were scum.

ModI sent you a pm asking for a dead QT?

And hands up I screwd it up royally defending Naio so early.

[Smudger]

Shite that is a bad post. Am using a kindle, sorry

[Smudger]

lol/ ...

[Smudger]

No why?